PROPHETS: A BIBLICAL PERSPECTIVE

[ember]

OK ember please listen. You have said that you are NOT a prophet, correct? So that means you do not have the authority to speak on prophets since authority is given to prophets and apostles in the church, and you do not have first hand experience of such. But however, you do believe in prophets I think, so by whose authority do you say who is a false prophet and who is true?

uh...well if that were true, no one but self appointed prophets would have any authority

and this is PRECISELY what you and russell are saying

see, we all should have our authority from the word of God...not from those who think they should receive the same reverence that He does

Jesus washed the feet of His disciples...JESUS WHO IS GOD INCARNATE...yet you and russell constantly whine that we do not give you the worship...er, compliments and respect you think you deserve

see, I do believe the gifts are valid but not in the sense you do

 

[atwhatcost]

OK ember please listen. You have said that you are NOT a prophet, correct? So that means you do not have the authority to speak on prophets since authority is given to prophets and apostles in the church, and you do not have first hand experience of such. But however, you do believe in prophets I think, so by whose authority do you say who is a false prophet and who is true?


1 Cor 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
Ephesians 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

OKAY, let's take this scriptural.
Matt. 18:15 And if thy brother sin against thee, go, show him his fault between thee and him alone: if he hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.16 But if he hear thee not, take with thee one or two more, that at the mouth of two witnesses or three every word may be established.
17 And if he refuse to hear them, tell it unto the church: and if he refuse to hear the church also, let him be unto thee as the Gentile and the publican.

Note, it does NOT say:
15 And if thy prophet sin against thee, send him a prophet, show him his fault between the prophet and the prophet alone: if he hear thee, thou hast gained thy prophet.
16 But if he hear thee not, take with thee one or two more prophets, that at the mouth of two witnesses or three every word may be established.
17 And if he refuse to hear them, tell it unto the church: and if he refuse to hear the church also, let him be unto thee as the Gentile and the publican.

And thus, you and Russell are bonafide Gentles or publicans. You are to be witnessed to, for your benefit, not believed.

Clear enough? (And, yes, I know you won't think it's clear enough because you truly believe you are god.) We are straight up telling you (and by now it's one or two dozen people, not a mere 1-5) you are no prophet and no one is listening to you. You are not a part of the church. Russell is not part of the church. You are outsides.

So why bother keep pretending anyone believes you?

 

[presidente]

Keep in mind this is a public forum. Anyone can say anything, but, what does the word of God say? why are some so eager to follow others who appear to have some sort of spiritual cloak ... as though they want to touch it...why are there lineups in some churches gathered at the front, waiting for one individual to 'give them a word from God?'
This is not a biblical model and amounts to fortune telling, not a word from God.

I think you are too extreme here. Biblically, can you think of a reason why someone with a genuine gift might not minister in a 'line-up.'
Now, if other people are getting revelations, and one person just keeps prophesying to a 'line up' during a regular church meeting for edification, I might agree that it is 'out of order' to just stick with one person prophesying. The reason I say this is found in I Corinthians 14.
29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.
30 If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.
31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.

In verse 29, if 'two or three' refers to what the prophet says, then he should allow the other to judge after two or three 'words' of prophecy. If it refers to speakers, then it should be done after two or three speakers. I've read the Greek could go either way, though most translators go with two or three prophets.
Look at verse 30. If someone else receives a revelation, the first should hold his peace. So the person in the line should be quiet if someone else receives a revelation.
But if the person who receives the revelation doesn't share it, is the person giving the prophecies to the line of people out of order? Is it the prophet's fault, or is the church just generally out of order.
We need to realize that most churches, even those that believe in these gifts, don't really follow Biblical order. The Azusa Street revival may have been moving toward having meetings that resembled I Corinthians 14, allowing members to speak as they were led by the Spirit. But Pentecostalism quickly went back to the pulpit-pew, sermon center, pastor-centered model, which is not taught in scripture.
Many people think that having one sermon is God-ordained. Lots of Pentecostals have squeezed in a few prophecies or tongues and interpretation here and there before the sermon or after. But the thing in verse 30, where the speaking prophet falls silent for someone else who receives a revelation... I've heard of it happening, but either because a congregation doesn't understand the proper order, or because there isn't enough flow of prophecy among the congregation, many churches don't experience this.
But one thing we can take away from this passage is that it is possible for someone to use a genuine gift in a disorderly manner. Paul doesn't indicate that the Corinthians' tongues, which he warns against using out of order, were fake. Why would he give instructions to prophets to use their gifts in a certain order if their gifts were fake? And why would he give the instructions... commandments of the Lord rather... if it weren't possible to use genuine gifts in a disorderly manner?

This is not a biblical model and amounts to fortune telling, not a word from God.

What is your Biblical basis for calling this fortune telling? My concern with line-ups like this in church is that the whole set-up can make it difficult for 'one sitting by' to prophesy. I Corinthians 14 doesn't teach us to have one prophet hog the whole meeting. (It doesn't say for a pastor to do so either.) Also, if the prophecies are private, the rest of the church isn't being edified for it. I don't want to be too legalistic and say that saints can't meet without having a I Corinthians 14 meeting, or that there can't be a time after the mutual edification part where believers can't speak to one another.
'Personal prophecy' is a Biblical thing. There are plenty of examples of prophecies over individuals in scripture. The Old Testament has lots of them. Clear examples we can see are when future kings are prophesied over. Saul, Reboboam and Jehu come to mind. Pagan kings were not exempt in some cases. In the New Testament Agabus gives Paul a 'personal prophecy', as we call it today.
Is it forbidden? Is it fortune telling? Not if it is from the Spirit of God. There is a passage in Deuteronomy that condemns going to soothsayers, those who consult the dead, cloud-readers, those who practice divination, etc., and it specifically allows going to prophets of the LORD. We can see in the Old Testament that it is even acceptable to enquire of the Lord through a prophet. Saul even went to Samuel to ask him about his father's lost donkeys.
Elijah rebuked Ahaziah for enquiring of Beelzebub, the god of Ekron, instead of enquiring of the LORD like he was allowed to do.
It is not forbidden to hope that God speaks to you through someone with a gift of prophecy, or to receive an individual word. But we do have some 'commandments of the Lord' for church meetings that go against the trend of having one person prophesy over a group of people-- or at least if other people are receiving revelations. If it edifies the body, and no one else receives a revelation, can you really fault the practice of doing this?
Besides, I've seen more line-ups for pastors to pray for people than prophets.
In my experience, I think I've seen a lot more 'obviously supernatural' personal prophecies that make manifest the secrets of one's heart than ones given out to the congregation.

 

[presidente]

1. Someone who is quick to condemn and offers a critical spirit, is NOT a prophet. Certain people too often think or believe they know what is right or wrong and seem to get the idea they can condemn, curse, mock and create an atmosphere of fear wherein a person will be afraid to speak up because of the fallout from the so called prophet that will ensue.

Let's translate the Charismatic Christianese. What is a 'critical spirit'? Do you mean an evil slimey demon resting on a person that manifests in criticism, or does the person just have a critical attitude?
We need to keep in mind that prophets are human beings. People with the gift of prophecy are human beings. They can have some problems with their attitudes at times just like the rest of us. If someone has the gift of prophecy, but can fall into being too critical, that doesn't mean his gift isn't genuine. There is a difference between what a person prophesies and his own thoughts and things he says that aren't in the name of the Lord.

2. The danger of self promotion. In any office, there is the danger of self promotion. That is one reason we have those lineups in church with gullible people hoping to hear a word from God from a person who is actually acting as a fortune teller rather than a true prophet.

The Bible doesn't condemn going to someone hoping to hear the word of the Lord. It's allowed in Deuteronomy and there are specific examples that show that it is allowed in the Old Testament. We don't have any clear examples of someone going to a prophet to inquire of the LORD about a particular issue in the New Testament, but neither do we see that it is forbidden. If all churches had prophets like the Corinthian church and if all believers coveted to prophesy and 'all prophesy' in church, then chasing after one person to prophesy wouldn't be that big of an issue. But I don't see any Biblical basis for condeming someone who asks another 'Do you have a word from the Lord for me?' Some people think that's an evil thing to do. It's a reasonable thing to do if the Lord shows you that another person has a prophecy for you, though.

There are a lot of man-made rules that some Pentecostal and Charismatics have made in reaction to perceived excesses with prophecy that don't really have any Biblical basis. Like rejecting a prophecy that isn't confirmation, or because the individual doesn't instantly sense that it 'bears witness with their spirit.' Some prophecies do, but what if the person hearing the prophecy isn't that sensitive. The Bible says, 'despise not prophesyings.' And I think rejecting personal prophecies or rejecting prophecies because they were given in a 'line-up' could be disobedience to that verse.

Treating asking someone if they've got a prophecy as if it were a sin doesn't really have a basis in scripture. Maybe it's generally more mature to ask God yourself. But that doesn't make asking someone else wrong. I heard a teenage girl say that at a conference, the Lord started speaking to her and she could prophesy. So, partly out of a desire to just encourage her, I asked her if she wanted to pray for me and see if the Lord told her anything. She asked me if I were a pastor, because she saw me on a stage speaking to a crowd of people. That was an encouragement, because, since I've gone back to school, I haven't spoken much in churches. It fit with me well, because of some ministry I've done in the past, but it was also an encouragement that I'd get back into it in the future.

I've also been in situations in a meeting where I didn't have a word for someone we were praying for at the moment, but I knew a couple of other people would have a word for that person, and then sure enough they gave them. What do you do if the Lord tells you person X has a word for you, and they aren't sharing it? Why would it be wrong to ask, or to say, "When are you going to share that word with me?"

 

[presidente]

I find the humility of AMOS telling as opposed to those who boast of being a prophet....

Amos...I was no prophet nor the son of a prophet..........Amos 7:14

Those who boast of being a prophet are suspect in the very minimum.....

He wasn't one before he was called as one.

Was it humility for Moses to try to talk the LORD out of sending him to Egypt to the people of Israel?

Was Elisha being proud and boastful when he said, "that he may know that there is a prophet in Israel"? I don't know the answer to that but I wouldn't want to judge Elisha over it either.

I do know that Paul kept telling people he was an apostle and writing that at the beginning of his epistles. I think it is wrong to condemn him for saying that since he was an apostle. If someone is prophet, we shouldn't condemn them for saying it.

I certainly don't care for people wanting to be called 'Prophet' before their name as an honorific title, or being greeted as 'prophet' in the market place, but I think we have a MUCH bigger problem with people doing that with the title 'pastor.'

If people in the church actually understood what prophets were an how they fit into the body, it might not be such a shocking thing.

 

[crossnote]

I won't directly address the lengthy treatise above, but I will mention that unlike OT times , today we don't have to go and enquire of a prophet for we now ALL have equal access to His throne of Grace and anyone lacking wisdom let him ask of God for there is ONE Mediator between God and man ...our High Priest Jesus Christ.

 

[ember]

I won't directly address the lengthy treatise above, but I will mention that unlike OT times , today we don't have to go and enquire of a prophet for we now ALL have equal access to His throne of Grace and anyone lacking wisdom let him ask of God for there is ONE Mediator between God and man ...our High Priest Jesus Christ.

huh.....puttin on my chest high waders and going in......

 

[ember]

presidente;2277647I think you are too extreme here. Biblically, can you think of a reason why someone with a genuine gift might not minister in a 'line-up.'
Now, if other people are getting revelations, and one person just keeps prophesying to a 'line up' during a regular church meeting for edification, I might agree that it is 'out of order' to just stick with one person prophesying. The reason I say this is found in I Corinthians 14.
29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.
30 If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.
31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.

The reason people line up for a 'word' is because they do get that word from God themself. Since when is one person responsible for the realtionship of believers to God? Aren't we all supposed to be responsible and nourish that relationship with God?

Actually though, what is happening can hardly be called prophesy...a word of knowledge would most likely be the accurate description

Let the prophets speak two or three would not apply to the line-up as people are seeking personal edification. Prophets speaking would be in a congregational setting it seems for the good of all as per scripture.

I call it fortune telling because it is not seeking God...it is seeking a word from a self proclaimed prophet who cannot possibly have words for all these people as it is not edifying for the body...IMO it's no better than reading your horoscope in the morning paper

Have you participated in these lineups or stood in them? I have been in many meetings where this is the norm and along the way I stopped participating...I was never the one who supposedly had a word for everyone...where is the biblical model for this?

We need to realize that most churches, even those that believe in these gifts, don't really follow Biblical order. The Azusa Street revival may have been moving toward having meetings that resembled I Corinthians 14, allowing members to speak as they were led by the Spirit. But Pentecostalism quickly went back to the pulpit-pew, sermon center, pastor-centered model, which is not taught in scripture.
Many people think that having one sermon is God-ordained. Lots of Pentecostals have squeezed in a few prophecies or tongues and interpretation here and there before the sermon or after. But the thing in verse 30, where the speaking prophet falls silent for someone else who receives a revelation... I've heard of it happening, but either because a congregation doesn't understand the proper order, or because there isn't enough flow of prophecy among the congregation, many churches don't experience this.

I'm not Pentecostal and with sincere apologies to those who are, I will never go into a Pentecostal church again because of what I have witnessed there.


Basically I concur with what you wrote above...its not a good model

But one thing we can take away from this passage is that it is possible for someone to use a genuine gift in a disorderly manner. Paul doesn't indicate that the Corinthians' tongues, which he warns against using out of order, were fake. Why would he give instructions to prophets to use their gifts in a certain order if their gifts were fake? And why would he give the instructions... commandments of the Lord rather... if it weren't possible to use genuine gifts in a disorderly manner?

Agreed. And therein is the rub. I am not a cessationist

What is your Biblical basis for calling this fortune telling? My concern with line-ups like this in church is that the whole set-up can make it difficult for 'one sitting by' to prophesy. I Corinthians 14 doesn't teach us to have one prophet hog the whole meeting. (It doesn't say for a pastor to do so either.) Also, if the prophecies are private, the rest of the church isn't being edified for it. I don't want to be too legalistic and say that saints can't meet without having a I Corinthians 14 meeting, or that there can't be a time after the mutual edification part where believers can't speak to one another

I call it that because it resembles fortune telling rather than a relationship with God wherein we receive answers from Him and pursue God..churches and auditoriums are filled with those wanting to experience a supernatural manifestation and that is not what we are supposed to seek.

'Personal prophecy' is a Biblical thing. There are plenty of examples of prophecies over individuals in scripture.

Again, let's not confuse the OT with the NT...we have the Holy Spirit indwelling us now and we don't need or are not supposed to need Nathan to reveal the next king to us. God forbid we should follow another human being rather than follow the word and allow the Holy Spirit to make that word real to us. How dangerous will it become to follow a person? Reading the OT it becomes apparent how dangerous that is!

How does a congregation all prophesy at the same time if they are waiting for the special prophet ? Yet, Paul says he would rather the congregation does that than speak in tongues with no interprettion...now again, how does that happen? Simply be speaking forth the word...it's not speaking of future telling at all

Elsewhere I have stated I believe a person can know of future events if God decides to make that known...but that is not how this thread got started...it got started because I wanted to get back to the biblical model for discussion and separate that from the threads wherein certain people have told us all they are prophets and if we disagree, we are smartly and quickly subjected to either a curse or a warning

Come on...that's not biblical!

 

[ember]

presidente;2277678]Let's translate the Charismatic Christianese. What is a 'critical spirit'? Do you mean an evil slimey demon resting on a person that manifests in criticism, or does the person just have a critical attitude?
We need to keep in mind that prophets are human beings. People with the gift of prophecy are human beings. They can have some problems with their attitudes at times just like the rest of us. If someone has the gift of prophecy, but can fall into being too critical, that doesn't mean his gift isn't genuine. There is a difference between what a person prophesies and his own thoughts and things he says that aren't in the name of the Lord.

where have I mentionned demons? going for the dramatic are we? I agree with the above which should give us all pause with regard to the warnings in scripture...just because someone says they are a prophet does not mean we give them the key to our souls

yet..and God help us...thousands actually do!...although you sound somewhat more practical in your approach


The Bible doesn't condemn going to someone hoping to hear the word of the Lord. It's allowed in Deuteronomy and there are specific examples that show that it is allowed in the Old Testament. We don't have any clear examples of someone going to a prophet to inquire of the LORD about a particular issue in the New Testament, but neither do we see that it is forbidden. If all churches had prophets like the Corinthian church and if all believers coveted to prophesy and 'all prophesy' in church, then chasing after one person to prophesy wouldn't be that big of an issue. But I don't see any Biblical basis for condeming someone who asks another 'Do you have a word from the Lord for me?' Some people think that's an evil thing to do. It's a reasonable thing to do if the Lord shows you that another person has a prophecy for you, though.

if they are all propheysing in church they sure aren't all telling of future events...who is keeping the record? that is not what prophesy means here

chasing after one person to prophesy wouldn't be that big of an issue

where are we told to chase after anyone but the Lord and that with our whole hearts? shaking my head here


Treating asking someone if they've got a prophecy as if it were a sin doesn't really have a basis in scripture. Maybe it's generally more mature to ask God yourself. But that doesn't make asking someone else wrong. I heard a teenage girl say that at a conference, the Lord started speaking to her and she could prophesy. So, partly out of a desire to just encourage her, I asked her if she wanted to pray for me and see if the Lord told her anything. She asked me if I were a pastor, because she saw me on a stage speaking to a crowd of people. That was an encouragement, because, since I've gone back to school, I haven't spoken much in churches. It fit with me well, because of some ministry I've done in the past, but it was also an encouragement that I'd get back into it in the future.

you will not find anywhere I have likened prophecy of any kind to sin...false, yes...if it is a sin, then that could be worse...ignorance and abuse of the gifts are rampant...it's not the true I have been speaking of...it's the false and peole's aptitude for grabbing onto anything that seems spiritual .. that is not the litmus test

anyway, it seems you are offering examples of words of knowledge and not prophecy

I've also been in situations in a meeting where I didn't have a word for someone we were praying for at the moment, but I knew a couple of other people would have a word for that person, and then sure enough they gave them. What do you do if the Lord tells you person X has a word for you, and they aren't sharing it? Why would it be wrong to ask, or to say, "When are you going to share that word with me?"

yeah I wouldn't participate in that one...backs out carefully

ps...why would person x have a word for me when I can pray and seek God? Is God playing some sort of hide and seek game with people?

 

[RussellJBenigno]

I agree for sure.......and like I said...those who call themselves a prophet or claim such a title are suspect in the very minimum......

Are pastors, teachers, evangelist, workers of miracles, gifts of helps, gifts of administrations, those who cast out demons, and healers suspect as well? Just asking because they are all set in the body by God. If the rest are not suspect then why would the prophets be suspect? I have meet many who say they are Pastors, teachers, prophets and evangelist and are not. The proof is in their ministry. Those who want to judge are not looking at the totality of the person with righteous judgement. Especially when they create a false narrative as their proof for judgement against those people.

 

[RussellJBenigno]

YES that is precisely the problem.

In order to avoid conflict I have had to place many on the ignore list, because they would rather malign than have a respectful conversation. I'm all for a decent conversation without being attacked.

 

[presidente]

The reason people line up for a 'word' is because they do get that word from God themself. Since when is one person responsible for the realtionship of believers to God? Aren't we all supposed to be responsible and nourish that relationship with God?

That sounds like human reasoning and individualistic culture talking, not the teaching of scripture. The Bible teaches that we are all members of one body. One part ministers to one part with a gift. Another part ministers to another part with a gift. We should all study or hear scripture, pray, and seek God as individuals. But we are also to be good stewards to minister the gifts 'one to another as good stewards of the manifold grace of God' as I Peter 4 teaches.

Actually though, what is happening can hardly be called prophesy...a word of knowledge would most likely be the accurate description

It depends on what it is. If it starts 'Thus saith the Lord' or is some kind of first-person message from God, that sounds like prophesying to me.

Let the prophets speak two or three would not apply to the line-up as people are seeking personal edification. Prophets speaking would be in a congregational setting it seems for the good of all as per scripture.

There is no restriction in the Bible against going to someone's house and giving a prophecy, like Agabus did. There are a lot of one-on-one prophecies in the Bible. Even in a church meeting, a prophecy can be about an individual, like the hypothetical example Paul gives of prophesying making manifest the secrets of the hearts of an uninstructed or unbelieving person who comes into a church meeting in I Corinthians 14.

I call it fortune telling because it is not seeking God...it is seeking a word from a self proclaimed prophet who cannot possibly have words for all these people as it is not edifying for the body...IMO it's no better than reading your horoscope in the morning paper

And it sounds to me like you are broadly condemning, with a broad brush, something we have plenty of Biblical examples in favor of-- that is 'personal prophecies.' You have no authority to tell the Holy Spirit not to give someone too many prophetic words for individuals. Some people flow in that gift. Even if you disagree with the order-- lining up for personal words in a church meeting-- that isn't a Biblical condemnation of the practice. Look in the Old Testament. It was permissible to inquire of the Lord through a prophet, to ask if you are going to recover from illness, or to ask where lost donkeys are. The New Testament doesn't forbid these things either.

It's also possible to give 'words' over individuals for all to hear in church meetings. I've certainly seen it done. I also think it is a bit legalistic to restrict people from prophesying when the general meeting has been dismissed if they happen to be in the same building where the meetings take place.

I call it that because it resembles fortune telling rather than a relationship with God wherein we receive answers from Him and pursue God.

I think you are creating a false dichotomy here. We are to covet to prophesy. We are also to pursue God. We shouldn't despise prophesyings when others prophesy over us. What is the difference in your mind between fortune telling and inquiring of the Lord about lost donkeys or whether a child would survive in the Old Testament?

churches and auditoriums are filled with those wanting to experience a supernatural manifestation and that is not what we are supposed to seek.

I don't blame unbelievers for wanting to see signs if they are happening. I can't find any scripture that condemns believers who want to experience the Spirit moving through the gifts. If the wicked and adulterous seek a sign, that doesn't make it wrong for the righteous to seek God to do signs. The apostles prayed for God to heal and to do signs and wonders in Acts 4.

Again, let's not confuse the OT with the NT...we have the Holy Spirit indwelling us now and we don't need or are not supposed to need Nathan to reveal the next king to us.

The New Testament teaches that one part of the body is not to say to another, "I have no need of thee." God can reveal who rulers are as He chooses. We have no right to forbid Him.

God forbid we should follow another human being rather than follow the word and allow the Holy Spirit to make that word real to us. How dangerous will it become to follow a person? Reading the OT it becomes apparent how dangerous that is!

It is possible to receive and appreciate a prophetic word delivered through another member of the body of Christ without putting that person up on a pedestal.

How does a congregation all prophesy at the same time if they are waiting for the special prophet ? Yet, Paul says he would rather the congregation does that than speak in tongues with no interprettion...now again, how does that happen? Simply be speaking forth the word...it's not speaking of future telling at all

Peter describes the phenomenon when discussing the prophecies of the Old Testament. 'Holy men of old spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost'. 'Prophesying' in I Corinthians 14 isn't just preaching. Chapter 12 makes a distinction between prophets and teachers. Romans 12 shows us that prophesying and teaching aren't the same thing. We know that the prophesying of I Corinthians 14 is revelatory in nature, because 'if a revelation comes to one sitting by, let the first hold his peace.' Prophesying can make manifest the secrets of someone's heart also.

 

[RussellJBenigno]

I certainly don't care for people wanting to be called 'Prophet' before their name as an honorific title, or being greeted as 'prophet' in the market place, but I think we have a MUCH bigger problem with people doing that with the title 'pastor.'

 

[atwhatcost]

Are pastors, teachers, evangelist, workers of miracles, gifts of helps, gifts of administrations, those who cast out demons, and healers suspect as well? Just asking because they are all set in the body by God. If the rest are not suspect then why would the prophets be suspect? I have meet many who say they are Pastors, teachers, prophets and evangelist and are not. The proof is in their ministry. Those who want to judge are not looking at the totality of the person with righteous judgement. Especially when they create a false narrative as their proof for judgement against those people.

I have the gift of administration. I suppose I could boast over that one but, who really is impressed by someone who has the gift to do paperwork, help others (which usually came in the form of cleaning a house, feeding people/getting a group of believers scheduled to send over dinners to someone just out of the hospital/going for a grocery run with someone who doesn't have the money that week, or a free babysitter for haggard parents), or organizing the prayer chain? Besides, anyone can test my gift too. If I were lousy at it, they really should tell me to step aside, just like we're telling you to step aside in what gift you pretend to have but have been found wanting.

 

[atwhatcost]

In order to avoid conflict I have had to place many on the ignore list, because they would rather malign than have a respectful conversation. I'm all for a decent conversation without being attacked.

A prophet builds together, not ignores. Again, you prove your inability. You're not maligned; you're malignant.

And, yes, I have many ignored too, but I'm no prophet.

 

[presidente]

A prophet builds together, not ignores. Again, you prove your inability. You're not maligned; you're malignant.

And, yes, I have many ignored too, but I'm no prophet.

I am pretty sure you are just making that up based on absolutely nothing at all beyond your own human opinion.

And if the NIV of I Corinthians 14:38 is right, then you are clearly wrong,


"But if anyone ignores this, they will themselves be ignored."

 

[posthuman]

"But if anyone ignores this, they will themselves be ignored."

now there's a verse amenable to ripping out of context, eh?

 

[posthuman]

I am pretty sure you are just making that up based on absolutely nothing at all beyond your own human opinion.

But the one who prophesies speaks to people for their strengthening, encouraging and comfort.
(1 Corinthians 14:3)​

let's not ignore this, yes?

​

 

[posthuman]

But the one who prophesies speaks to people for their strengthening, encouraging and comfort.
(1 Corinthians 14:3)​

God sets people into the body of Christ as He see's fit and He has not relinquished that position to you, nor will He anytime in the future.

not strengthening, not encouraging, not comforting.

not prophesying.
not teaching.
not pastoring.
not doing the work of an apostle.

what then?

oh yeah - ignoring anyone who weighs what he says and doesn't come up with the same weight he measures for himself.

Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said.
(1 Corinthians 14:29)​

ignoring this?

we should not ignore this. we should carefully weigh everything that is said, having no respect of men or women, but respect for the gospel we received, and the testimony of the Spirit in us and of the scripture. and when we speak, we should allow others to weigh what we say, and sit down and hear it if they have something to say to us - even when it doesn't taste good.

He gives grace to the humble, and He hides His face from the proud.

 

[atwhatcost]

I am pretty sure you are just making that up based on absolutely nothing at all beyond your own human opinion.

And if the NIV of I Corinthians 14:38 is right, then you are clearly wrong,


"But if anyone ignores this, they will themselves be ignored."

A. Nope. Not making that up. That's based on being mighty impressed by the prophets in the OT and NT. Have you ever learned the history of Isaiah? Israel was a terrible place to live in when God called him to be a prophet. Worse yet, God called him to tell God's people he was going to eject them out of the land again even after the king repented and brought the people back to God. And yet, there was Isaiah being honest, still building them up, all the time telling them they would be punished for what happened before they repented. You can't get tougher than that, to build even during the time when Gods wrath reigned.

Oh wait! You can. Then there was Hosea. He had it tougher. He listened to God when God told him to marry a prostitute. Hosea loved his wife deeply, but, alas, she was a prostitute.

So, seriously, look at the Bible. The prophets built up out of the strength of God in really tough situation.

B. Seriously? You're going to pull out something Paul was saying to the Corinthian church to prove I shouldn't ignore people so full of themselves they aren't worth listening to?

Prove that's the same thing, and I'll buy it.

I suspect I'll be hearing the grasshoppers chirping tonight and every night until the first frost before you can make that line up with scripture.

So, nope. You may have been pretty sure, but it wasn't a sure thing.