Propitiation – The Sacrifice that Atoned

[Chester]

Understanding of this ONE WORD forever refutes the false teaching that Christ died for every single person. That Christ died for all men is true, but the “all men” He died for were all believers. All of that group.

1 John 4:10 In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loves us and sent His Son to be the propitiation of our sins.

God is immutably just and His moral excellence demands punishment or expiation for sin.
( to expiate a sin is to make atonement for, reconciling the offender to God)​

Satisfaction of God’s justice is necessary if sin is to be forgiven.
Christ was set forth as the propitiation in order that God might be just in justifying the ungodly. If sin could be pardoned without satisfaction “then Christ died in vain” (Galatians 2:21)

No other propitiation is needed and no other is possible.

Expiation and propitiation go together. The sinner is expiated by the atonement, and God’s justice is propitiated.

Romans 3:25 (Jesus Christ) whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed v26 that He might be just AND the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Hebrews 2:17 Therefor He had to be made like His brethren in all things, that He might become a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make PROPITIATION for the sins of the people.

1 John 2:2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only but also for those of the whole world (read 1 John 2: 1-10 for the fullness of the text) John’s use of the wider sense of ‘world’ extends the propitiation into the future for God’s people in all generations.

If Christ was the propitiation for EVERY man, then every man is justified and is not under wrath, for this is the true meaning of propitiation: that Christ reconciled man to God by His blood, and the reconciled man is not under judgment but is saved from wrath

example: when the priests of the OT made sacrifice (propitiation) for the people, it was for a PARTICULAR people of a particular group, and not for ALL people.

When I say "Jesus died for all people" I mean simply that Jesus' death made reconciliation to God possible for every person. And then all those who believe have their sin atoned for by the blood of Jesus' death.

John 3:16 is very clear: For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that WHOSOEVER believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life.

Reconciliation, propitiation, and atonement is not accounted to any who do not believe. It is given freely to all who believe.

 

[Blain]

What the main point here IS.........that the propitiation was not made for everyone.
Old or new covenant, the blood of the mercy seat was for those who offered it for their sin.......not everyone in Israel offered their animal, so those had no access to mercy....likewise the blood of Christ is not shed in vain for those who are unsaved.

In the old covenant yes an animal sacrafice was required but not in the new one do you see anywhere after Jesus's resurrection animals being sacrificed for sin? I know there are people who believe in limited atonement and predestination concerning salvation but this is why I always place such importance on understanding context words and their meaning.
There are plenty of scriptures one can use to imply one can lose their salvation or that only a select people can recieve salvation but the scriptures also use specific words like eternal salvation and calling salvation a free gift and that it is freely given the word eternal means everylasting without measure or limits salvation is being saved but not by your own strength rather by the strength and actions of soemone else. A free gift is without cost or requirement a gift is something given and offered out of kindness freely given is even more profound freely means to be given to many

Jesus either died for the remission of sin for the world or he died for remission of sin for only those who were predestined to be saved everyone else can go to hell by no choice of their own since their birth does that sound right to you?

 

[Blackpowderduelist]

Calvin took what Augustine taught and carried it too far.
The Bible says we know a tree by its fruit. Calvin's teaching produced a tyrannical theocracy that had people terrified in their homes, and murdered people.

 

[stepbystep]

You obviously are so into your own ego you don't recognize your own insults to me. OR scripture.
Propitiation is not a 'calvinist' idea......it is in the bible several times as I quoted a few scriptures. It means exactly what I wrote
If you took personally what I said about false teachers or any of the apostates that is NOT a me problem, it is a YOU problem.

I did not take it personally. Read my comment. I said I COULD HAVE. You would have a hard time measuring my ego, as would anyone. I do not think it is my ego that should be measured though.

Not much to discuss since you are unable to understand the connection between your first comment and Calvin's ideology. Have a nice day.

 

[Yahshua]

It may be more digestible to say that the Messiah is only the mercyseat/atonement for the citizens of His kingdom...but anyone can become grafted into His kingdom if they choose to abide. This is how the Messiah is available to the world while remaining exclusively for His people: only His people receive the gift, but all have an opportunity to become His people.

Then to go further...

A citizen MUST actively take their sins to the High Priest and confess them whenever committed, daily, with a daily sacrifice, else they weren't ceremonially cleansed of those sins...then as tradition goes, the sins that were confessed daily throughout the year were stored in the tabernacle until the Day of Atonement - the most Holy day of the year - when the mercyseat and furnishings were finally cleansed by the High Priest with blood and the sins of the kingdom were symbolically removed.

Yet with the Messiah, the sacrifice only needed to happen once and no longer yearly...but the process remains the same on the citizen's side until perfect: They must confess their daily sins to be forgiven of them and to have their conscience cleansed with Messiah's blood during the process of sanctification.

"And this is how you are to pray...'and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us...'".

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yet Jesus said......"I do NOT pray for the WORLD, but for those Thou has given to me.
So another case where world was a group of people and not ALL people.

That’s fine

but he paid for the world

 

[GraceAndTruth]

When I say "Jesus died for all people" I mean simply that Jesus' death made reconciliation to God possible for every person. And then all those who believe have their sin atoned for by the blood of Jesus' death.

John 3:16 is very clear: For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that WHOSOEVER believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life.

Reconciliation, propitiation, and atonement is not accounted to any who do not believe. It is given freely to all who believe.

I appreciate your view, but I would ask you to exegete that verse.
1. world in v16 means a group of people in the world of the possible choices. WE know this because there is a condition
(kosmos -entire human population or a group of people or the earth/planet
2. the condition is belief (the whosoever beleivers)
3. not perish to have eternal security

Three doctrines in one little verse...........that is how powerful the word of God is
The death of Christ did not make atonement for sins....it is the shed BLOOD of Chist that atones. (propitiation)

Yes, the propitiation is for believers only.

 

[GraceAndTruth]

That’s fine

but he paid for the world

absolutely not

Old testament atonement was not for everyone......no Amorites, Caananites, no Phillistines et all
Why would our God who is immutable become mutable in the new covenant. He cannot. He has always chosen and led HIS people.

The entire bible is written to believers. When it uses a personal pronoun like 'us' it means believers.......when it uses an impersonal pronoun like 'they' it indicates non-believers.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

absolutely not

Old testament atonement was not for everyone......no Amorites, Caananites, no Phillistines et all
Why would our God who is immutable become mutable in the new covenant. He cannot. He has always chosen and led HIS people.

The entire bible is written to believers. When it uses a personal pronoun like 'us' it means believers.......when it uses an impersonal pronoun like 'they' it indicates non-believers.

Say what you will. Jesus said he died for the world and Paul said he provided propitiation first the work

I Must go with they they said
Not What someone wants
Me to think they meant

 

[ForestGreenCook]

In the old covenant yes an animal sacrafice was required but not in the new one do you see anywhere after Jesus's resurrection animals being sacrificed for sin? I know there are people who believe in limited atonement and predestination concerning salvation but this is why I always place such importance on understanding context words and their meaning.
There are plenty of scriptures one can use to imply one can lose their salvation or that only a select people can recieve salvation but the scriptures also use specific words like eternal salvation and calling salvation a free gift and that it is freely given the word eternal means everylasting without measure or limits salvation is being saved but not by your own strength rather by the strength and actions of soemone else. A free gift is without cost or requirement a gift is something given and offered out of kindness freely given is even more profound freely means to be given to many

Jesus either died for the remission of sin for the world or he died for remission of sin for only those who were predestined to be saved everyone else can go to hell by no choice of their own since their birth does that sound right to you?

Salvation, according to Strong's means=deliverance. There is an eternal deliverance, and there are many deliverances that the regenerated people receive this side of heaven, as we sojourn here on earth. Failure to distinguish between the two tends to make people think that they have a choice to accept, or reject eternal deliverance. If it has to be accepted, it is not my God's grace.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Calvin took what Augustine taught and carried it too far.
The Bible says we know a tree by its fruit. Calvin's teaching produced a tyrannical theocracy that had people terrified in their homes, and murdered people.

I have never read Calvin's writings. Could you elaborate on your statement?

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Say what you will. Jesus said he died for the world and Paul said he provided propitiation first the work

I Must go with they they said
Not What someone wants
Me to think they meant

christ died for those that his Father gave him, and all that he died for he will not lose any, but raise them up at the last day. If he died for all mankind then he would not lose any of all mankind. That theory will not harmonize with the other scriptures,

 

[Grandpa]

Everyone here has agreed with limited atonement in one way or another.

Was the Atonement sufficient for all? Yes, of course.

Was the Atonement available to all? From our point of view, probably.

Was the Atonement applied to all? No. Only believers in Christ.


That is how its limited. If the Atonement is applied to everyone in the whole world that has ever lived or will ever live then condemnation is not possible. How could a person be condemned if they are atoned of their sin??? They can't.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

If all sin has been atoned for then what could they possibly be condemned over? Unbelief. Which is a sin...

 

[Blackpowderduelist]

I have never read Calvin's writings. Could you elaborate on your statement?

That's kind of a tall order there. Let me see if I can condense this into a very short summary.

 

[GraceAndTruth]

Your offering me theology. Could you give the scriptures please. I believe the atonement was made for every single person . Head for head. The entire cosmos . But we have to revieve . Through faith . Rom 5
Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
11And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.[/QUOTE

I gave you lots of scripture......have been patient and tried to explain this to you but you keep going on like I've said nothing.
So that is what I have to say to you now.........nothing.

 

[GraceAndTruth]

It may be more digestible to say that the Messiah is only the mercyseat/atonement for the citizens of His kingdom...but anyone can become grafted into His kingdom if they choose to abide. This is how the Messiah is available to the world while remaining exclusively for His people: only His people receive the gift, but all have an opportunity to become His people.

Then to go further...

A citizen MUST actively take their sins to the High Priest and confess them whenever committed, daily, with a daily sacrifice, else they weren't ceremonially cleansed of those sins...then as tradition goes, the sins that were confessed daily throughout the year were stored in the tabernacle until the Day of Atonement - the most Holy day of the year - when the mercyseat and furnishings were finally cleansed by the High Priest with blood and the sins of the kingdom were symbolically removed.

Yet with the Messiah, the sacrifice only needed to happen once and no longer yearly...but the process remains the same on the citizen's side until perfect: They must confess their daily sins to be forgiven of them and to have their conscience cleansed with Messiah's blood during the process of sanctification.

"And this is how you are to pray...'and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us...'".

That may be more 'digestible' but it is also wrong.

 

[Journeyman]

Christians should understand how Jesus is the "propitiation".

Jesus did not condemn sinners. Even those who greatly sinned against him. He shows mercy to people who don't deserve mercy.

Thou hast taken away all thy wrath: thou hast turned thyself from the fierceness of thine anger. Psa.85:3

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Everyone here has agreed with limited atonement in one way or another.

Was the Atonement sufficient for all? Yes, of course.

Was the Atonement available to all? From our point of view, probably.

Was the Atonement applied to all? No. Only believers in Christ.


That is how its limited. If the Atonement is applied to everyone in the whole world that has ever lived or will ever live then condemnation is not possible. How could a person be condemned if they are atoned of their sin??? They can't.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

If all sin has been atoned for then what could they possibly be condemned over? Unbelief. Which is a sin...

I think it is the way one interprets it

if atonement if offered to all it is unlimited

if it is only applied to the believers, you could say it is limited yet it is still offered to all.

so if your looking at it from an end result, I guess you could say it is limited

if you are looking at it fro its scope, it would be unlimited,

as for the sin of unbelief, since it is the HS’s job to reveal God to us, to convict us, and teach us as drawing us to God, to die in unbelief is to blaspheme Or disagree or dissent from the Hs, This is the unpardonable sin whch Christ did not die for,

 

[Chester]

I appreciate your view, but I would ask you to exegete that verse.
1. world in v16 means a group of people in the world of the possible choices. WE know this because there is a condition
(kosmos -entire human population or a group of people or the earth/planet
2. the condition is belief (the whosoever beleivers)
3. not perish to have eternal security

Three doctrines in one little verse...........that is how powerful the word of God is
The death of Christ did not make atonement for sins....it is the shed BLOOD of Chist that atones. (propitiation)

Yes, the propitiation is for believers only.

I study verses and develop doctrine from a clear exegetical study of Scripture. I don't bring doctrine to Scripture to interpret verses.

So John 3:16 says God so loved the world - I agree that "world - kosmos" is used different ways in Scripture - so you look at the context - and here I think (my opinion) that it is clear that kosmos means exactly what it says - "the world"

You can only "prove" it being a certain set of people if you already have decided what your doctrine is from a previous verse.

And "not perish" says nothing about the doctrine of "eternal security" - not even close. The verse simply says that whoever is believing (Greek present tense) in Christ will not perish - a beautiful powerful truth - PTL! So there is security for the one who is believing!

 

[GraceAndTruth]

I study verses and develop doctrine from a clear exegetical study of Scripture. I don't bring doctrine to Scripture to interpret verses.

So John 3:16 says God so loved the world - I agree that "world - kosmos" is used different ways in Scripture - so you look at the context - and here I think (my opinion) that it is clear that kosmos means exactly what it says - "the world"

You can only "prove" it being a certain set of people if you already have decided what your doctrine is from a previous verse.

And "not perish" says nothing about the doctrine of "eternal security" - not even close. The verse simply says that whoever is believing (Greek present tense) in Christ will not perish - a beautiful powerful truth - PTL! So there is security for the one who is believing!

Look at the context again. The limit is set from other verses in the context in John 3:
15 so that everyone who believes will have eternal life in Him. (limited to everyone WHO BELIEVES for not all will)

27 John replied, “A person can receive not even one thing unless it has been given to him from heaven (limted to those the Father grants belief to) Just the same as when Jesus said "No ONE CAN come to me unless the FATHER grants it to him" John 6:44 Since the word 'can' impllies ability the verse could just as well be rendered "no one is able to come ....'

This limits the ability to a certain group.......not everyone in the world, therefor kosmos has the narrower sense.

Verses also deal with those who do not believe, another separation limiting to a certain group

John 3:16 is a beautiful comfort verse for His beloved....but it does not stand alone