Protestantism. Is it over?

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John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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#41
I will build my church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it.
I can give you a tour through both history and biblical history and show you the deterioration of mankind and creation from the inception of sin to the cross and the restoration that has been occurring since the cross if you like.

There has never been a time when God has not been in control of all things and there never will be. He is the LORD and there is no other. Satan, though powerful from our perspective, has only ever been an instrument of God. One little word can fell him.
Being in control of things vs ruling and reigning are two totally different things. For the most part, God is allowing most things to happen in this dark world, however, his plan as stated in scripture will come to pass despite the darkness. When the Lord finally rules and reigns over this world, he will be ruling in righteous and holiness.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
16,814
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#42
We can’t blame God if we do something wrong and say we’ll it’s just his Will and plan we walk daily in a world where there’s temptations and evil danger ect everywhere we’re meant to be learning to make good choices not learn we don’t have any choice because we’re all just playing out a predetermined plan like riding a wave
John Calvin blamed God. He stated that all things even sin is the determinate council of God.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
13,132
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#43
Noone is blaming God. God has great purpose in all that He does. God allowed sin to come into the world in order for more of the glory of the Lord to be made known to man. A measure of His love can be known by us in creation and providence. But the fulness of God's affection for mankind is manifested in the cross. By it we know the full love of God.
Man allowed sin to come into the world

“Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭5:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s not because God did it it’s because they sinned lol god warned then like he does us

“I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭13:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

this isn’t Jesus sayong ignore what I’m saying I have a plan … he’s telling them the plan ….lol brother

What he tells us , is the plan lol he’sinvitong us to her and believe it


Imagine if Adam and Eve would have simply accepted and believed Gods commandment not to eat the fruit ? That was his plan lol what he told then would keep them safe

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That’s Gods plan brother to save anyone that will accept it . It was his plan before now it’s here and will end when he returns
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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#44
“Which did He choose, and why?”

heres where you’ll find the answers

“And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

at his already should tell you it’s not what he had planned for mankind he’s grieving in his heart because they became so wicked and violent he’s become sorry he even created us brother you can’t possibly argue this was his plan can you ?) even thou his heart is repenting and he’s grieving ? )

And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; ( think of that a few chapters earlier ten generations he said everything he made was good his plan certainly wasn’t to corrupt the w earth eas it let’s read on )

both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence. ( not his plan ) And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; ( he didn’t do this ) for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.

And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; ( not what he planned )

and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.”( his conclusion )
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭6:5-7, 11-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬


ado tou see where it say destroy all flesh ? That’s the very reason we have to be born of the spirit to enter the kk from flesh and blood is already condemned and cannot be saved

“And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:49-50‬ ‭KJV‬‬

flesh is already doomed and matters not to God because of that in genesis

“Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:5-6‬ ‭KJV‬

brother the bi ke is fluid Gods plans have always been good for man but then man hears what he said like this “ don’t eat this fruit or you’ll die “

My point is his plan is laid out in genesis chapter one but it’s fulfilled in revelation 21 . All that’s in between is the result of a comic struggle between the forces of good and evil unleashed by man in the beginning after God had already seperwted light and dark

his plan will come to pass but the things between involve also man’s rule and dominion on earth nd the dire effect it had on Gods very good plans

man failed God and it corrupted crestion since then he’s been working towards saving mankind from damnation and death

What man has done matters and affects everything in earth it’s like it is because of us not God he’s been pleading with mankind to repent for ages now
But He didn't start over. He kept 8 people alive. Do you think the knowledge of the glory of the Lord was different with them after the flood compared to before? Do you think Abraham had a different perspective of the glory of God after God came and made Himself known compared to before? How about you? Has your knowledge of the glory of the Lord changed since you've been saved?

A greater knowledge of the glory of the Lord is why God does things as He does. History is building to a time where the knowledge of the glory of the Lord shall fill the earth as the waters cover the seas. Allowing sin has allowed God to make more of Himself, and thus His glory, known.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
13,132
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#45
But He didn't start over. He kept 8 people alive. Do you think the knowledge of the glory of the Lord was different with them after the flood compared to before? Do you think Abraham had a different perspective of the glory of God after God came and made Himself known compared to before? How about you? Has your knowledge of the glory of the Lord changed since you've been saved?

A greater knowledge of the glory of the Lord is why God does things as He does. History is building to a time where the knowledge of the glory of the Lord shall fill the earth as the waters cover the seas. Allowing sin has allowed God to make more of Himself, and thus His glory, known.
You’re kind of avoiding everything I’m showing you. Was genesis chaoter six Gods plan brother ? He planned to make man wicked then grieve his own heart nd repent for even creating them ? This is all Gods plan to bring himself to regret creating us ?

What you’re saying he didn’t destroy noah really doesn’t address what we were talking about God didn’t make Adam and Eve eat the fruit it want his plan . god didn’t plan for cain to kill abel he told him to repent and do what’s eighth and he’s be accepted . Free cain acres of his own volition and killed his brother then God responded to him this wasn’t all pre planned

God doesn’t cause us to do e writhing we do or stop us from doing things we would do ect you have to look at the overwhelming biblical evidence for mans free agency and position upon earth

And why Satan is trying so hard to corrupt them given tbier dominion and rightful inheritance because we are a very important part of Gods creation probably to him the most important part I would think

But I don’t know brother as usual we seem to have different ideas lately . I do love and appreciate your good spirit and word always however .
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
2,507
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#46
The Catholic church ruled the world for many years and then people like Martin Luther, John Calvin, Huldrych Zwingli, John Wycliffe and more stood up against the tradition and stared to obey the bible.
The protestant reformation was founded on justification by faith alone and sola scripture.

Has the world forgotten this and is the Catholic church regaining its power?
In my city both the Catholic Church and the Protestant Church are decreasing.

They both because of tradition were unable to adapt to the changing world.

In the newer suburbs of the city they probably don't exist.

Those days of Catholic and Protestant are long gone now.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
16,404
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#47
Being in control of things vs ruling and reigning are two totally different things. For the most part, God is allowing most things to happen in this dark world, however, his plan as stated in scripture will come to pass despite the darkness. When the Lord finally rules and reigns over this world, he will be ruling in righteous and holiness.
After the cross, everything changed. A whole new order was set in place. Jesus was given all authority, and He began building His kingdom in earnest. He started the day of Pentecost, and has been adding daily since that time. This will continue until the knowledge of the glory of the Lord fills the earth. Just because this is happening gradually throughout history doesn't mean it isn't happening. Jesus came to destroy the works of the devil and that's exactly what will happen. On the day of Pentecost there were less than a thousand Christians. That same day, the church more than tripled. From that time till now there have been millions of Christians. In glory, there will be a number no man can number. The church is still in it's infancy. And wherever a heart is converted, Jesus is ruling and reigning. It is a kingdom without borders and limited only by the constraints of God.

When did being a Christian become anything other than victory?
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
16,404
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#48
You’re kind of avoiding everything I’m showing you. Was genesis chaoter six Gods plan brother ? He planned to make man wicked then grieve his own heart nd repent for even creating them ? This is all Gods plan to bring himself to regret creating us ?

What you’re saying he didn’t destroy noah really doesn’t address what we were talking about God didn’t make Adam and Eve eat the fruit it want his plan . god didn’t plan for cain to kill abel he told him to repent and do what’s eighth and he’s be accepted . Free cain acres of his own volition and killed his brother then God responded to him this wasn’t all pre planned

God doesn’t cause us to do e writhing we do or stop us from doing things we would do ect you have to look at the overwhelming biblical evidence for mans free agency and position upon earth

And why Satan is trying so hard to corrupt them given tbier dominion and rightful inheritance because we are a very important part of Gods creation probably to him the most important part I would think

But I don’t know brother as usual we seem to have different ideas lately . I do love and appreciate your good spirit and word always however .
God deals with what is and makes it all work for good. God lives outside the choices of men. If no men repented He would raise up stones. Satan, nor anyone else, will frustrate God's plans.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
16,814
3,580
113
#49
After the cross, everything changed. A whole new order was set in place. Jesus was given all authority, and He began building His kingdom in earnest. He started the day of Pentecost, and has been adding daily since that time. This will continue until the knowledge of the glory of the Lord fills the earth. Just because this is happening gradually throughout history doesn't mean it isn't happening. Jesus came to destroy the works of the devil and that's exactly what will happen. On the day of Pentecost there were less than a thousand Christians. That same day, the church more than tripled. From that time till now there have been millions of Christians. In glory, there will be a number no man can number. The church is still in it's infancy. And wherever a heart is converted, Jesus is ruling and reigning. It is a kingdom without borders and limited only by the constraints of God.

When did being a Christian become anything other than victory?
Christ was given all authority, but he is not exercising that authority until his second coming. It is true, Christ's spiritual kingdom began at the resurrection, but Satan is still the ruler of the darkness of this world.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
13,132
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#50
God deals with what is and makes it all work for good. God lives outside the choices of men. If no men repented He would raise up stones. Satan, nor anyone else, will frustrate God's plans.
“God deals with what is and makes it all work for good”

Right I think I agree here with this sentance. It isn’t just there though lol we mankind rule earth we cause it and increase it look around the violence is us the war and greed and all of that evil we see is happening from and through mankind .

gods plan is always being hindered by man because it includes him as such an important aspect of the plan of creation to have man to rule the earth . But then we became corrupt and ruled it satans way rather than Gods way and then the result was we grieved God ms heart and he felt repentance for even creating us to begin with. because that’s not what he created us for we aren’t walking in his plan or his ( will ) what he has proclaimed his Will is throughout the Bible

summed up in active and real brotherly love between people in his name honoring the one who gave his life for ours in order to save man . Again because Gods children are a very important aspect of his plans of eternity when things will actually come to pass of the New Testament prophecy

On earth brother regarding the earth God have it to man and gave them dominion it’s the whole reason “ the son of man would be born to rule earth “

man is an important aspect when he gave Adam dominion over earth redemption comes through the “ son of man “ Jesus who came to restore what was lost in the beginning that right and restored relationship with God through him
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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#51
Christ was given all authority, but he is not exercising that authority until his second coming. It is true, Christ's spiritual kingdom began at the resurrection, but Satan is still the ruler of the darkness of this world.
Then how can Jesus build His church and the gates of hell are defenseless against it? Satan has no authority over Christians. Quite the opposite is true. Righteousness is the characteristic of Christ's kingdom and we are kings and priests of the Most High. Christ is definitely taking back what was lost in the garden and restoring all things. It's just going to take awhile.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
13,132
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#52

:)
Depravity vs. Grace
“I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭30:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Sister can you hear that same offer here ?

i set before you life and death blessing and cursing

“And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed. And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden,

and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

( choose life that you may live )

And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:8-9, 16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s what the lord Jesus Christ and his gospel is , he died in order to set life before a world who all are condemned to die in sin because all have sinned. They can choose life or reject what he’s done it’s still a choice for each person created and given life by God everyone has proven a sinner

Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭18:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭5:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And as it is appointed unto men once to die,

but after this the judgment:”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭9:27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Now he’s offered us a choice to be saved from the judgement and second death.

Thisnis God offering mankind a choice of life or death again like Adam and like the law

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

A gods Will is that everyone would receive the gospel and be saved but they won’t all choose it when they hear it like this

“The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son, and sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come. Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage. But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise: Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy. Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭22:2-5, 8-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

if you notice those who were the chosen guests didn’t wanna come they chose other options “But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise

tbey heard and didn’t want to come to the wedding but those who weren’t chosen lol tbey actually are the ones who attend the wedding and fill the house up

The ones who weren’t even a part of the wedding guest list now everyone’s invited

“Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage. So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭22:9-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

air was t a plan the plan was ruined because the guests didn’t want to come not because the lord failed but because when he came and said let’s go they wouldn’t they chose the world

If everything is pre determined and we don’t have choices in it all why does God keep setting life and death before man and pleading with them to choose life ?

and if he pre deternined everything and we don’t have choices and free Will then what’s this all about ? Thisnos totally unjust

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

aid It was all gods Will and plan why is he making people answer for thier own deeds and words they spoke ?

“For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, And every tongue shall confess to God. ( he’s making then confess for what he willed and planned and pre determined ?)

So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.” ( but it was all his Will and plan not our agency or choice ? )
‭‭Romans‬ ‭14:11-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I think “Pre destination “ is not understood well but what’s obvious is God doesn’t change and keeps telling man how to live and not die but we keep rejecting what he says . I think that’s always going to be what determines life and death

If we do this

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Or this

“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:48‬ ‭


Only my own thoughts I believe zgod has foreknowledge and also pre determines things that he is doing . I don’t believe he’s pre determined everything . I think he foreknew all things …. Just my own cooky thinking however the salt shaker should be used heavily probably sister

❤️❤️❤️
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
16,404
5,734
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#53
“God deals with what is and makes it all work for good”

Right I think I agree here with this sentance. It isn’t just there though lol we mankind rule earth we cause it and increase it look around the violence is us the war and greed and all of that evil we see is happening from and through mankind .

gods plan is always being hindered by man because it includes him as such an important aspect of the plan of creation to have man to rule the earth . But then we became corrupt and ruled it satans way rather than Gods way and then the result was we grieved God ms heart and he felt repentance for even creating us to begin with. because that’s not what he created us for we aren’t walking in his plan or his ( will ) what he has proclaimed his Will is throughout the Bible

summed up in active and real brotherly love between people in his name honoring the one who gave his life for ours in order to save man . Again because Gods children are a very important aspect of his plans of eternity when things will actually come to pass of the New Testament prophecy

On earth brother regarding the earth God have it to man and gave them dominion it’s the whole reason “ the son of man would be born to rule earth “

man is an important aspect when he gave Adam dominion over earth redemption comes through the “ son of man “ Jesus who came to restore what was lost in the beginning that right and restored relationship with God through him
All that you have mentioned has been true since the onset of sin. But there is more righteousness in the world than there has ever been. And the multiplication of sin has been exceeded by the multiplication of grace.
What I believe you and others are missing is that God's plan to fill the earth with the knowledge of His glory is still going forward and increasing. Every time someone gets saved, the knowledge of the glory of the Lord is increased. Every time God reveals Himself more fully to an individual, the knowledge of the glory of the Lord is increased.
You seem to measure the world in terms of the evil that exists. God measures the world in terms of how much of the earth is filled with His glory. The kingdom of God is like the mustard seed. It starts very small like a mustard seed and grows to the largest tree. It starts with a little leaven and eventually leavens the whole loaf. Everything is going as planned. Where sin abounds, grace is abounding much more.