Protestantism. Is it over?

[Pilgrimshope]

All that you have mentioned has been true since the onset of sin. But there is more righteousness in the world than there has ever been. And the multiplication of sin has been exceeded by the multiplication of grace.
What I believe you and others are missing is that God's plan to fill the earth with the knowledge of His glory is still going forward and increasing. Every time someone gets saved, the knowledge of the glory of the Lord is increased. Every time God reveals Himself more fully to an individual, the knowledge of the glory of the Lord is increased.
You seem to measure the world in terms of the evil that exists. God measures the world in terms of how much of the earth is filled with His glory. The kingdom of God is like the mustard seed. It starts very small like a mustard seed and grows to the largest tree. It starts with a little leaven and eventually leavens the whole loaf. Everything is going as planned. Where sin abounds, grace is abounding much more.

brother

“You seem to measure the world in terms of the evil that exists. God measures the world in terms of how much of the earth is filled with His glory. “

“Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭2:15-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“but the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:7, 10, 13‬ ‭KJV‬‬


brother God sees the world for what it is and sees man for what we are his glory is Jesus Christ and those in him will one day be glorified with him after this world .
Look around at the many ears happening tbats because of our own judgements and lusts for power and resources and money. Look at all the lord er every minute someone is murdered or raped a child is aboard or stolen people are robbed or beat up or used or some evil thing happens to someone and it’s done by an other someone

This is what grieved gods heart the man he created was now being violent and killing and harming each other but it’s hard to discuss the things I’m saying often here because no one tends to wanna hear it’s what the Bible says

“And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth. And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭6:5-6, 12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬


the difference is I’m not looking at the world and viewing it my own way , without looking at scripture and accepting it believing it has the right view , then looking at things through the design God shows us in his word.

God sees the world for what it is and it’s not his plan when he’s telling us his heart is being grieved because of what man has become this wasn’t the plan .

The plan is in genesis one and two

a mankind then cast a wrench into the operations gears and caused a downward spiral paradise and life fellowship with the creator blessings and peace became murder the first born man killed the second but just before he did God told him to just repent and do what’s right and he would be accepted. That was Gods plan and will for cain but he chose different.

eventually brother our heart and core became corrupt thisnis eny it’s refered to as mankind eas in slavery to sin because good and evil corrupted us we became changed from what zgod created in his plan and now he’s redeeming us , restoring us reconciling our relationship in Christ.

all things working together are for those who love God right ?

“He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:21, 23-24‬ ‭

“By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:2-4‬ ‭

“And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:28‬ ‭

it makes it sound wuote different than just random selection when you see also what he said about those who love God keeping his words and commandments it gives more understanding of what’s being said in those verses of we look through the gospel

a Christ was foreordained through prophets from the beginning of the world to offer mankind salvstion if they accept him

 

[Cameron143]

Eh? .

Take agreement where you can.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

He is ruling and reigning. He is simply working gradually through history to bring all things under His feet. The kingdom of God is in us. We're on earth. He rules and reigns through us.

Agreed brother, Satan has authority over us, but can tempt us. Christ will restore all things. He could do it right now, but has chosen not to, thus, he is waiting to rule and reign on this earth.

….he is waiting to rule and reign on this earth

“but the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.


….Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:7, 10, 13‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“…. the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; when he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe in that day.”
‭‭2 Thessalonians‬ ‭1:7-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Ezekiel 18:4 plus 32

Now that is some color ❤️❤️❤️

 

[Cameron143]

brother

“You seem to measure the world in terms of the evil that exists. God measures the world in terms of how much of the earth is filled with His glory. “

“Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭2:15-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“but the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:7, 10, 13‬ ‭KJV‬‬


brother God sees the world for what it is and sees man for what we are his glory is Jesus Christ and those in him will one day be glorified with him after this world .
Look around at the many ears happening tbats because of our own judgements and lusts for power and resources and money. Look at all the lord er every minute someone is murdered or raped a child is aboard or stolen people are robbed or beat up or used or some evil thing happens to someone and it’s done by an other someone

This is what grieved gods heart the man he created was now being violent and killing and harming each other but it’s hard to discuss the things I’m saying often here because no one tends to wanna hear it’s what the Bible says

“And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth. And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭6:5-6, 12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬


the difference is I’m not looking at the world and viewing it my own way , without looking at scripture and accepting it believing it has the right view , then looking at things through the design God shows us in his word.

God sees the world for what it is and it’s not his plan when he’s telling us his heart is being grieved because of what man has become this wasn’t the plan .

The plan is in genesis one and two

a mankind then cast a wrench into the operations gears and caused a downward spiral paradise and life fellowship with the creator blessings and peace became murder the first born man killed the second but just before he did God told him to just repent and do what’s right and he would be accepted. That was Gods plan and will for cain but he chose different.

eventually brother our heart and core became corrupt thisnis eny it’s refered to as mankind eas in slavery to sin because good and evil corrupted us we became changed from what zgod created in his plan and now he’s redeeming us , restoring us reconciling our relationship in Christ.

all things working together are for those who love God right ?

“He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:21, 23-24‬ ‭

“By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:2-4‬ ‭

“And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:28‬ ‭

it makes it sound wuote different than just random selection when you see also what he said about those who love God keeping his words and commandments it gives more understanding of what’s being said in those verses of we look through the gospel

a Christ was foreordained through prophets from the beginning of the world to offer mankind salvstion if they accept him

I agree all that you say is happening. But there was a time when way more wars were happening, way more plagues, alot less wealth, alot less food, alot less education, alot less healthcare. In short alot less of everything. A more careful view of history shows that things overall are way better than they have ever been. And God will continue to give greater revelation of creation. There are still countless wonders untold. And as God discovers more and more to mankind, life will get better for all. All the while He will continue to grow His church and kingdom and, as more and more Christians populate the earth, the spiritual condition of man will also be improved.
I know sometimes it seems like things are going very poorly. But there have been incredible gains from the time when 120 believers were locked inside an upper room quaking in fear. There are now millions upon millions of Christians in the world. And that number will grow to a number which no man can number...as many as the stars and grains of sand. And nothing or noone will frustrate the Lord in bringing this to pass.

 

[John146]

Eh? .

Sorry about that, I meant to add the "no" as in no authority. He can tempt us, and sometimes we may even give in, but in the end, we are Christ's.

 

[John146]

….he is waiting to rule and reign on this earth

“but the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.


….Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:7, 10, 13‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“…. the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; when he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe in that day.”
‭‭2 Thessalonians‬ ‭1:7-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

And by the way, I meant to say that Satan has NO authority over us. My typo

 

[Magenta]

Take agreement where you can.

It is pretty sparse .

 

[Bob-Carabbio]

The Catholic church ruled the world for many years and then people like Martin Luther, John Calvin, Huldrych Zwingli, John Wycliffe and more stood up against the tradition and stared to obey the bible.
The protestant reformation was founded on justification by faith alone and sola scripture.

Mostly accurate.

Has the world forgotten this and is the Catholic church regaining its power?

You apparently don't get out much. The Roman Catholic religious system (I don't call it a "Church") has elected a demonic Pope thing, and is internally AND EXTERNALLY fragmenting, Catholicism HAS ALWAYS BEEN HERETICAL, and the present "Pope Thing" isn't a Catholic at all, and probably isn't even a Christian, with his universalistic garbage, and PAGAN ideas. Roman Catholicism is too BIG to go away, but as world missionary efforts continue, many Catholics are becoming Born again Christians, and joining non-Catholic Christian Church systems..

 

[JJoseph]

But that is not what the Bible teaches. It is faith in Christ alone

I am not going into whether or not the sacraments play a role in sanctification/justification in depth here. The point is those are not salvation issues. Confessing Jesus Christ as Lord, God, Savior and Son of God, are salvation issues. The rest are secondary: "Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God." (1 John 4:15)

Also, passages in John 3, John 6, Acts 2, 1 Cor 10 and 11 etc suggest the sacraments are not bare and empty symbols. They are to be received in faith, yes, but they give grace to those who receive them. So justification continues to be by grace through faith. This is the view of the Apostolic/Catholic and Orthodox Churches. One may agree with this view or not, but one can't deny those who confess Jesus Christ is the Son of God (unlike Muslims and Jews), and God and Savior (unlike JWs and Mormons), like Catholics and Orthodox Christians do, together with Protestants/Evangelicals have Eternal Life in them, unless one wants to deny many passages in the Bible such as: "These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God." (1 John 5:13). "but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name." (John 20:31), 1 Cor 12:3: "Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus is accursed”; and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit." etc.

Lastly, I agree with Cameron. Notwithstanding this or that, the increase in the number of Christians, and the spread of Christianity, will go on happening from the time of Christ's Birth in the flesh, until the end of time. We see this in Isa 9:6-7.

Isaiah 9:6 "For unto us a Child is born, unto us a Son is given: and the government shall be upon His shoulder: and His name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. 7Of the increase of His government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon His Kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this."

 

[Magenta]

Man allowed sin to come into the world

God allowed man to do that...

I think as a natural man it was inevitable that Adam would sin. Jesus was not "Plan B" after all...

1 Corinthians 2:12; Colossians 2:13

 

[TMS]

The Catholic "church" was/is a cult, with a lot of its membership having fragile loyalties. It didn't even really rule Europe, let alone the actual world.

"Protestantism" Is a mostly outdated moniker. The Pope rules inside his little city-state, and his rulings are freely contradicted and ignored by his own ministers outside. I'm not even sure the RCC itself has ever been less relevant- let alone the idea that it's regaining it's power.

You need to understand history.
The known world was ruled by the papacy.

They had the power and it was called the dark ages.

The papacy had the power to excommunicate monarchs for failing to follow Catholic doctrine.

The church teachings and political power joined and were enforced on the nation's around them.

People had no right to believe what they thought was right ( no freedom of conscience). They killed millions of people because they refused to follow the church's rules.

True protestantism has mostly died and been forgotten. Which means we will make the same mistakes again. The mistake of allowing church and state to unite.

If the church unites with political powers then they have power to force people in religious beliefs.

Forced Christianity is not true Christianity.

 

[TMS]

When truth, which sets us free, was being revealed to the world, the Catholic church employed people (Jesuits) to invent false doctrines so that people could not see the truth.
Almost all reformers believed that the papacy was the antichrist.

It fits every identifying mark in the bible.

 

[tourist]

Now that is some color ❤️❤️❤️

@Magenta is very colorful.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

@Magenta is very colorful.

Yes I think I should become patron of her work I’ve sort of borrows wuote a few of her beautiful images for screen savers and such , always Inspiring

 

[Pilgrimshope]

And by the way, I meant to say that Satan has NO authority over us. My typo

We can choose to yield to God or Satan we can give Satan authority if we don’t submit to God

It’s a choice who we accept as our lord

“Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey;

( option one and it’s result ) whether of sin unto death,

( option two and it’s result ) or of obedience unto righteousness?

But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin,( past tense )

but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

( the result of obeying from our heart the gospel )

Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:16-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s about freedom brither we get to choose who to give the authority to eho to serve either the devil and sin or God and righteousness

We have agency it’s in the very design of creation “ let us make man and let them have dominion on earth “ notice God spoke then Satan spoke to them they had an option like we do Jesus spoke in the gospel and then Satan spoke after in false doctrines trying to get us away from what he said just like Eden

awe have to turn to Gid in order to escape satans dominion over us by hearing the truth

“in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; and that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2:25-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

you know when we’re convinced we have no ability to choose we are in a snare and trap convinces from the inside of satans lies . He wasn’t a us to think we can’t change and do right can’t stop serving sin can’t obey God we have no choice this is what holds many in thier bonds believing “ it’s all just a random plan I’m just a piece of wood floating down a steam can’t change anything

God wants us to understand tbe truth and be set free into life

We need to be set free by accepting his doctrine the truth of god

“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.”
‭‭John‬ ‭18:37‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; and that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.”


“You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:13‬ ‭NIV‬‬

Free people can choose good or evil so we can actually give God the authority over us or can let Satan run us around like dogs in chains

 

[Pilgrimshope]

God allowed man to do that...

I think as a natural man it was inevitable that Adam would sin. Jesus was not "Plan B" after all...

1 Corinthians 2:12; Colossians 2:13

Yes god made man free to choose like he is that’s “ how he allowed them to do it “ if you give someone freedom and agency then you tell them about certain death and how to avoid it but also place them with life and tell them they are free and give them dominion over all the earth .

The design isnt then to control thier actions and determine what they choose or you never gave them freedom and agency to begin with and anything going wrong is Gods fault and design even the hideous things he seated to avenge that men do freely

of course zgods plan will come to pass of course he knew the end from the beginning

i think the bi ke really holds a story of mankind relationship with God showing how very forebearing and merciful he’s always been with us even when we keep continually failing in faith towards him from Adam forward

We keep messing up our agency and our end of the bargain thisnis why Jesus came to give us a new birth and start in him who overcame my poo t is that Gods plan eas set in place on Eden and he repeatedly tells man his desire through the Bible and then in the end of the Bible it is fulfilled when God comes to dwell hinself among man and death is no more like before adam caused it in Eden

everything in between is God constantly fixing the damage man has done so what I’m getting at is we’ve really conlicsted and drawn out his plan and caused a lot of destruction ong the way provoking for instance his wrath this also wasn’t planned the people provoked it out of God and it set thier course within his ultimate plan a different direction

He chose them and they didn’t choose him

 

[SomeDisciple]

You need to understand history.
The known world was ruled by the papacy.

I understand history just fine.

The "known world" wasn't actually the whole world, - it was a cropped version of the world, limited by imagination.

And even that wasn't really ruled by the Papacy, either. It was only ruled by the Pope in theory; the catholic church's theory. Yes, he did have some monarchs that were loyal to him; but that doesn't mean he ruled the world.

 

[SomeDisciple]

The papacy had the power to excommunicate monarchs for failing to follow Catholic doctrine.

The church teachings and political power joined and were enforced on the nation's around them.

This is true; the Pope basically created a coalition with his religious influence- he had that kind of power back then; because people believed in his authority.

True protestantism has mostly died and been forgotten. Which means we will make the same mistakes again. The mistake of allowing church and state to unite.

I don't think so. I know there are some advocates of theocracy out there, but any actual attempt to establish one -at least in the US- (can't speak for Australia) would be quickly met with stiff resistance and crushed. Actual theocrats are just as few in number and marginal as actual white supremacists... they certainly exist, but their influence is exaggerated by media and left wing fear-mongers.

I know in our US right-wing, we have "catholics" like VP candidate Vance, and some "think tanks" with a religious-flavored political agenda: but everything they do will all face heavy scrutiny because of those things.

Forced Christianity is not true Christianity.

I agree. Amen.

I definitely think we can still have some laws that reflect God's justice, condemn murder, wanton violence, gross sexual immorality, and economic exploitation... and certainly Islam cannot be fully accommodated- it would be insane to allow caliphates to grow within our borders. And while we shouldn't try to legislate christianity; we also shouldn't try to pass laws that undermine or attack Christianity either. There is a delicate balancing act that needs to be done; but I believe it is achievable to have decent government and allow people space for repentance at the same time.

 

[Magenta]

“Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; (option one and it’s result) whether of sin unto death, (option two and it’s result) or of obedience unto righteousness? But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, (past tense) but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. (the result of obeying from our heart the gospel) Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.” ‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:16-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

From Romans 6:16-18 ~ Do you not know that you are slaves to the one you obey, whether you are slaves to sin leading to death, or to obedience leading to righteousness? But thanks be to God that, though you once were slaves to sin, you wholeheartedly obeyed the form of teaching to which you were committed. You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.