Psalm 119 - Love for God's Law

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SpeakTruth101

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Aug 14, 2023
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#21
1 John 4:19, “We love Him because He first loved us.”

1 John 5:2-3, “By this we know that we love the children of Elohim, when we love Elohim and guard His commands. For this is the love for Elohim, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy.”

2 John 1:6, “And this is the love, that we walk according to His commands. This is the command, that as you have heard from the beginning, you should walk in it.”

John/Yahanan 14:15, “If you love Me, keep My commandments.”

Psalm 19:7-11, “The Torah of יהוה is perfect, bringing back the being; The witness of יהוה is trustworthy, making wise the simple; The orders of יהוה are straight, rejoicing the heart; The command of יהוה is clear, enlightening the eyes; The fear of יהוה is clean, standing forever; The right-rulings of יהוה are true, They are righteous altogether, More desirable than gold, Than much fine gold; And sweeter than honey and the honeycomb. Also, Your servant is warned by them, In guarding them there is great reward.
 
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evyaniy

Guest
#22
1 John 4:19, “We love Him because He first loved us.”

1 John 5:2-3, “By this we know that we love the children of Elohim, when we love Elohim and guard His commands. For this is the love for Elohim, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy.”

2 John 1:6, “And this is the love, that we walk according to His commands. This is the command, that as you have heard from the beginning, you should walk in it.”

John/Yahanan 14:15, “If you love Me, keep My commandments.”

Psalm 19:7-11, “The Torah of יהוה is perfect, bringing back the being; The witness of יהוה is trustworthy, making wise the simple; The orders of יהוה are straight, rejoicing the heart; The command of יהוה is clear, enlightening the eyes; The fear of יהוה is clean, standing forever; The right-rulings of יהוה are true, They are righteous altogether, More desirable than gold, Than much fine gold; And sweeter than honey and the honeycomb. Also, Your servant is warned by them, In guarding them there is great reward.
Is Psalm 119 the Son's prayer to the Father for life because of His obedience to the law in giving His life to save us as the law required of Him?
 

SpeakTruth101

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Aug 14, 2023
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#23
Is Psalm 119 the Son's prayer to the Father for life because of His obedience to the law in giving His life to save us as the law required of Him?
I have great respect for you, I see you love His words and ways, but I think Psalm 119 was not Yahshua speaking because parts of it are like this:

Psalms 119:5-8,5 Oh, that my ways were established To guard Your laws!6 Then I would not be ashamed, When I look into all Your commands.7 I thank You with uprightness of heart, When I learn the right-rulings of Your righteousness.8 I guard Your laws; Oh, do not leave me entirely!

The writer is showing his imperfections while at the same time saying how perfect the ways of YHWH are.
 
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evyaniy

Guest
#24
I have great respect for you, I see you love His words and ways, but I think Psalm 119 was not Yahshua speaking because parts of it are like this:

Psalms 119:5-8,5 Oh, that my ways were established To guard Your laws!6 Then I would not be ashamed, When I look into all Your commands.7 I thank You with uprightness of heart, When I learn the right-rulings of Your righteousness.8 I guard Your laws; Oh, do not leave me entirely!

The writer is showing his imperfections while at the same time saying how perfect the ways of YHWH are.
Thank you for your answer.

In verse 8 He prays do not forsake Me utterly. The word translated forsake is azab H5800 which is the same word He prayed on the cross when suffering for our sins and being cursed.

Psalm 22:1 My EL, My EL, why hast Thou forsaken H5800 Me? why art Thou so far from helping Me, and from the words of My roaring?

Although He was forsaken for a time while He suffered the curse and death to save us, He was not utterly forsaken since the Father raised Him from the dead to life again in answer to His prayer in Psalm 119.
 

SpeakTruth101

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Aug 14, 2023
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#25
Thank you for your answer.

In verse 8 He prays do not forsake Me utterly. The word translated forsake is azab H5800 which is the same word He prayed on the cross when suffering for our sins and being cursed.

Psalm 22:1 My EL, My EL, why hast Thou forsaken H5800 Me? why art Thou so far from helping Me, and from the words of My roaring?

Although He was forsaken for a time while He suffered the curse and death to save us, He was not utterly forsaken since the Father raised Him from the dead to life again in answer to His prayer in Psalm 119.
but right before that the writer says:

Psalms 119:5-8,5 Oh, that my ways were established To guard Your laws!6 Then I would not be ashamed ..."

this could not be Yahshua.
 
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evyaniy

Guest
#26
but right before that the writer says:

Psalms 119:5-8,5 Oh, that my ways were established To guard Your laws!6 Then I would not be ashamed ..."

this could not be Yahshua.
His ways were established to guard His Father's laws and He depended on His Father to make that so. That is what He is praying in that verse as He does in other verses in the Psalm as well. He totally depended on His Father to keep Him obedient all the way to the cross so He could fulfill the law and save us. Indeed He guarded His Father's law by remaining obedient and accomplishing it.
 

SpeakTruth101

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Aug 14, 2023
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#27
His ways were established to guard His Father's laws and He depended on His Father to make that so. That is what He is praying in that verse as He does in other verses in the Psalm as well. He totally depended on His Father to keep Him obedient all the way to the cross so He could fulfill the law and save us. Indeed He guarded His Father's law by remaining obedient and accomplishing it.
119:67, Before I was afflicted I myself was going astray, But now I have guarded Your word."

Its not Yahshua speaking, He never went astray
 
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evyaniy

Guest
#28
119:67, Before I was afflicted I myself was going astray, But now I have guarded Your word."

Its not Yahshua speaking, He never went astray
The word translated astray is incorrect. This was covered repeatedly in other threads. The word sagag H7683 means to be unaware in this verse. That is exactly what Hebrews 5 describes, that He learned through what He suffered. He was afflicted by His Father Who required Him to give His life to save us and He was perfected forever through what He did and learned by doing so in obedience to the law and His Father. That is what Hebrews explains and what this verse is about. He did not sin and did not go astray. He says He is innocent and blameless all through Psalm 119 and even takes an oath to be obedient in verse 106.

The word astray is a mistranslation. Sagag H7683 only occurs 5 times in the OT and is translated to a different word each time. To ignore the overwhelming evidence in Psalm 119 that He always obeyed the law and then focus on one mistranslated word is to ignore the immense body of evidence that Psalm 119 is the Son's prayer and He always was obedient all the way to death on the cross as the law required of Him.
 

SpeakTruth101

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Aug 14, 2023
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#29
The word translated astray is incorrect. This was covered repeatedly in other threads. The word sagag H7683 means to be unaware in this verse. That is exactly what Hebrews 5 describes, that He learned through what He suffered. He was afflicted by His Father Who required Him to give His life to save us and He was perfected forever through what He did and learned by doing so in obedience to the law and His Father. That is what Hebrews explains and what this verse is about. He did not sin and did not go astray. He says He is innocent and blameless all through Psalm 119 and even takes an oath to be obedient in verse 106.

The word astray is a mistranslation. Sagag H7683 only occurs 5 times in the OT and is translated to a different word each time. To ignore the overwhelming evidence in Psalm 119 that He always obeyed the law and then focus on one mistranslated word is to ignore the immense body of evidence that Psalm 119 is the Son's prayer and He always was obedient all the way to death on the cross as the law required of Him.
Psalms 119:67, 67 Before I was afflicted H6031 I went astray H7683: but now have I kept H8104 thy word H565."

H7683 שָׁגַג shagag (shaw-gag') v.
1. to stray.
2. (figuratively) sin (with more or less apology).
[a primitive root]
KJV: X also for that, deceived, err, go astray, sin ignorantly.

Brown-Driver-Briggs' Hebrew Definitions
שָׁגַג
shâgag
1) to go astray, err, commit sin or error
1a) (Qal)
1a1) to err (mentally)
1a2) to sin (ignorantly or inadvertently)
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: a primitive root
Same Word by TWOT Number: 2324
 
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evyaniy

Guest
#30
Psalms 119:67, 67 Before I was afflicted H6031 I went astray H7683: but now have I kept H8104 thy word H565."

H7683 שָׁגַג shagag (shaw-gag') v.
1. to stray.
2. (figuratively) sin (with more or less apology).
[a primitive root]
KJV: X also for that, deceived, err, go astray, sin ignorantly.

Brown-Driver-Briggs' Hebrew Definitions
שָׁגַג
shâgag
1) to go astray, err, commit sin or error
1a) (Qal)
1a1) to err (mentally)
1a2) to sin (ignorantly or inadvertently)
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: a primitive root
Same Word by TWOT Number: 2324
Transliteration
šᵊḡāḡâ
Pronunciation
sheg-aw-gaw'

Part of Speech
feminine noun
Root Word (Etymology)
From שָׁגַג (H7683)
Dictionary Aids
TWOT Reference: 2324a
KJV Translation Count — Total: 19x
The KJV translates Strong's H7684 in the following manner: (through, in...) ignorance (12x), unawares (4x), error (2x), unwittingly (1x).

H7684 is from Sagag and it means to be unaware or ignorance of something.
 

SpeakTruth101

Active member
Aug 14, 2023
874
186
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#31
Transliteration
šᵊḡāḡâ
Pronunciation
sheg-aw-gaw'

Part of Speech
feminine noun
Root Word (Etymology)
From שָׁגַג (H7683)
Dictionary Aids
TWOT Reference: 2324a
KJV Translation Count — Total: 19x
The KJV translates Strong's H7684 in the following manner: (through, in...) ignorance (12x), unawares (4x), error (2x), unwittingly (1x).

H7684 is from Sagag and it means to be unaware or ignorance of something.
Yahshua was never in ignorance, to 1a2) to sin (ignorantly or inadvertently) is still a sin...

BDB Definition:
שָׁגַג
shâgag
1) to go astray, err, commit sin or error
1a) (Qal)
1a1) to err (mentally)
1a2) to sin (ignorantly or inadvertently)
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: a primitive root
Same Word by TWOT Number: 2324

Total KJV Occurrences: 11

erred, 5
Lev 5:18, Num 15:22, 1Sa 26:21, Job 6:24, Job 19:4

also, 1
Gen 6:3

astray, 1
Psa 119:67

deceived, 1
Job 12:16

ignorantly, 1
Num 15:28

sinneth, 1
Num 15:28 (2)

went, 1
Psa 119:67
 
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evyaniy

Guest
#32
Yahshua was never in ignorance, to 1a2) to sin (ignorantly or inadvertently) is still a sin...

BDB Definition:
שָׁגַג
shâgag
1) to go astray, err, commit sin or error
1a) (Qal)
1a1) to err (mentally)
1a2) to sin (ignorantly or inadvertently)
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: a primitive root
Same Word by TWOT Number: 2324

Total KJV Occurrences: 11

erred, 5
Lev 5:18, Num 15:22, 1Sa 26:21, Job 6:24, Job 19:4

also, 1
Gen 6:3

astray, 1
Psa 119:67

deceived, 1
Job 12:16

ignorantly, 1
Num 15:28

sinneth, 1
Num 15:28 (2)

went, 1
Psa 119:67
He did not say He sinned. Read the rest of the Psalm where He says repeatedly that He is innocent and blameless and completely obedient to the law. If He admitted to any sin in verse 67 then the entire Psalm is a contradiction, which it is not.
 

SpeakTruth101

Active member
Aug 14, 2023
874
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#33
He did not say He sinned. Read the rest of the Psalm where He says repeatedly that He is innocent and blameless and completely obedient to the law.
SO were Zechariah and Elizabeth yet they were not sinless, they were in a right state with YHWH, recieveing mercy for doing what He said

Luke 1:6 ►
Audio Crossref Comment Greek
Verse (Click for Chapter)
New International Version
Both of them were righteous in the sight of God, observing all the Lord’s commands and decrees blamelessly.

New Living Translation
Zechariah and Elizabeth were righteous in God’s eyes, careful to obey all of the Lord’s commandments and regulations.

English Standard Version
And they were both righteous before God, walking blamelessly in all the commandments and statutes of the Lord.

Berean Standard Bible
Both of them were righteous in the sight of God, walking blamelessly in all the commandments and decrees of the Lord.

Berean Literal Bible
And they were both righteous before God, walking blameless in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord.

King James Bible
And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

New King James Version
And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.
 
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evyaniy

Guest
#34
He did not say He sinned. Read the rest of the Psalm where He says repeatedly that He is innocent and blameless and completely obedient to the law. If He admitted to any sin in verse 67 then the entire Psalm is a contradiction, which it is not.
even the word astray does not mean sin.
 
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evyaniy

Guest
#35
Thank you for your answer, honesty and objections.
 
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evyaniy

Guest
#36
ignorance is a harsh sounding English word that means to be unaware of something. Since Hebrews tells us that He learned through what He suffered and was perfected by it, that has to mean He was unaware of something before He learned it. As a Man Who had emptied Himself to suffer death for us He was learning constantly through His life as we all do. He did it without sin but He did learn, especially about things He would never experience as the Creator like the cruelty of man which He allowed to have it's way with Him to save us.
 
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evyaniy

Guest
#37
Who prayed Psalm 119 if you don't think it is the Son's prayer? Whose prayer could it be and why?
 
E

evyaniy

Guest
#38
Psalm 69 is the Son's prayer too. It is His prayer from beginning to end. Before you say it can't be because of verse 5, remember He took our sins upon Himself as if they were His Own. Now go ahead and say it can't be, and then consider how many things He says in the Psalm that happened to Him.

Psalm 69
For the Chief Musician. To the tune of “Lilies.” By David.

(Son to Father during His suffering)

69:1 Save Me, 'Elohiym,
for the waters have come up to My neck!
69:2 I sink in deep mire, where there is no foothold.
I have come into deep waters,
where the floods overflow Me.
69:3 I am weary with My crying.
My throat is dry.
My eyes fail, looking for My 'Elohiym.
69:4 those who hate Me without a cause
are more than the hairs of My head.
those who want to cut Me off,
being My enemies wrongfully, are mighty.
I have to restore what I didn’t take away.
69:5 'Elohiym, You know My foolishness.
My sins aren’t hidden from You.
69:6 Don’t let those who wait for You
be shamed through Me,
'Adonay YHVH(different vowel points)
Tzva'ot (Tsaba',Sabaoth, Hosts),
Don’t let those who seek You
be brought to dishonor through Me,
'Elohiym of Israel.
69:7 Because for Your sake, I have borne reproach.
Shame has covered My face.
69:8 I have become a Stranger to My brothers,
an Alien to My mother’s children.
69:9 For the zeal of Your house consumes Me.
The reproaches of those who reproach You
have fallen on Me.
69:10 When I wept and I fasted,
that was to My reproach.
69:11 When I made sackcloth My clothing,
I became a Byword to them.
69:12 those who sit in the gate talk about Me.
I am the Song of the drunkards.
69:13 But as for Me, My prayer is to You,
YHVH, in an acceptable time.
'Elohiym, in the abundance of Your mercy,
answer Me in the truth of Your Salvation.
69:14 Deliver Me out of the mire, and don’t let Me sink.
Let Me be delivered from those who hate Me,
and out of the deep waters.
69:15 Don’t let the flood waters overwhelm Me,
neither let the deep swallow Me up.
Don’t let the pit shut its mouth on Me.
69:16 Answer Me, YHVH, for Your mercy is good.
According to the multitude of Your compassion,
turn to Me.
69:17 Don’t hide Your face from Your Servant,
for I am in distress.
Answer Me speedily!
69:18 Draw near to My soul, and redeem it.
Ransom Me because of My enemies.
69:19 You know My reproach, My shame, and My dishonor.
My adversaries are all before You.
69:20 Reproach has broken My heart,
and I am full of heaviness.
I looked for some to take pity, but there was none;
for comforters, but I found none.
69:21 they also gave Me gall for My food.
In My thirst, they gave Me vinegar to drink.


(Son prays against the unrepentant wicked)

69:22 Let their table before them become a snare.
May it become a retribution and a trap.
69:23 Let their eyes be darkened, so that they can’t see.
Let their backs be continually bent.
69:24 Pour out Your indignation on them.
Let the fierceness of Your anger overtake them.
69:25 Let their habitation be desolate.
Let no one dwell in their tents.
69:26 For they persecute Him Whom You have wounded.
they tell of the sorrow of
Those Whom You have hurt.
69:27 Charge them with crime upon crime.
Don’t let them come into Your righteousness.
69:28 Let them be blotted out of the book of life,
and not be written with the Righteous.

(Son describes His suffering and praises His Father)

69:29 But I am in pain and distress.
Let Your Salvation (Yĕshuw`ah) 'Elohiym, protect Me.
69:30 I will praise the Name of 'Elohiym with a song,
and will magnify Him with thanksgiving.
69:31 It will please YHVH better than an ox,
or a bull that has horns and hoofs.

(Son prays for believers that they would live)

69:32 The humble have seen it, and are glad.
You who seek after 'Elohiym, let your heart live.
69:33 For YHVH hears the needy ('evyon),
and doesn’t despise His captive people.
69:34 Let heaven and earth praise Him;
the seas, and everything that moves therein!
69:35 For 'Elohiym will save Zion,
and build the cities of Judah.
They shall settle there, and own it.
69:36 The children also of His servants shall inherit it.
Those who love His Name shall dwell therein.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,402
6,685
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#39
When reading the Psalms and other text from the prophets, it is interesting, perhaps even revealing to consider the meanins og the name, David. It means Beloved.
A wonderful further consideration is the name of the Beloved's Father, Jesse. It translates as My Redeemer. Incredible as it may seem, the "Father's name and the Son's are all but prophetic.
So now when it is written, a Psalm of David, it is perfectly correct to say A Psalm of the Beloved.
This is not conjecture nor guessing, it is linguistic fact, dtruth.

Almost forgot, this will clarify the several OT references to the everlasting throne of David, the Beloved.
 
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evyaniy

Guest
#40
Psalm 35 is the Son's prayer too and it is awesome and reveals His heart during His suffering.

Psalm 35
By David.

(Son to Father concerning the wicked)

35:1 Contend, YHVH, with those who contend with Me.
Fight against those who fight against Me.
35:2 Take hold of shield and buckler,
and stand up for My help.
35:3 Brandish the spear and block those who pursue Me.
Tell My soul, “I am Your Salvation. (Yĕshuw`ah)”
35:4 Let those who seek after My soul
be disappointed and brought to dishonor.
Let those who plot My ruin
be turned back and confounded.
35:5 Let them be as chaff before the wind,
YHVH’s Angel driving them on.
35:6 Let their way be dark and slippery,
YHVH’s Angel pursuing them.
35:7 For without cause they have
hidden their net in a pit for Me.
Without cause they have dug a pit for My soul.
35:8 Let destruction come on him unawares.
Let his net that he has hidden catch himself.
Let him fall into that destruction.

(Son rejoices in His Father's salvation)

35:9 My soul shall be joyful in YHVH.
It shall rejoice in His Salvation (Yĕshuw`ah).
35:10 All My bones shall say, “YHVH, who is like You,
Who delivers the Poor from him
who is too strong for Him;
yes, the Poor and the Needy ('Evyon) from
him who robs Him?”

(Son describes false accusations against Him)

35:11 Unrighteous witnesses rise up.
They ask Me about things that I don’t know about.
35:12 They reward Me evil for good,
to the bereaving of My soul.

(Son describes how He did good towards others)

35:13 But as for Me, when they were sick,
My clothing was sackcloth.
I afflicted My soul with fasting.
My prayer returned into My own bosom.
35:14 I behaved myself as though it had been
My friend or My brother.
I bowed down mourning,
as One Who mourns His mother.

(Son describes the abuse and mocking He received)

35:15 But in My adversity, they rejoiced,
and gathered themselves together.
The attackers gathered themselves together against
Me, and I didn’t know it.
They tore at Me, and didn’t cease.
35:16 Like the profane mockers in feasts,
they gnashed their teeth at Me.

(Son asks Father to save Him from wicked torturers)

35:17 'Adonay, how long will You look on?
Rescue My soul from their destruction,
My precious life from the lions.
35:18 I will give You thanks in the great assembly.
I will praise You among many people.
35:19 Don’t let those who are My
enemies wrongfully rejoice over Me;
neither let those who hate Me
without a cause wink their eyes.
35:20 For they don’t speak peace,
but they devise deceitful words against
those who are quiet in the land.
35:21 Yes, they opened their mouth wide against Me.
they said, “Aha! Aha! our eye has seen it!”

(Son asks Father for defense and justice)

35:22 You have seen it, YHVH. Don’t keep silent.
'Adonay, don’t be far from Me.
35:23 Wake up! Rise up to defend Me, My 'Elohiym!
My 'Adonay, contend for Me!
35:24 Vindicate Me, YHVH My 'Elohiym,
according to Your righteousness.
Don’t let them gloat over Me.
35:25 Don’t let them say in their heart,
“Aha! That’s the way we want it!”
Don’t let them say, “We have swallowed Him up!”
35:26 Let them be disappointed and confounded together
who rejoice at My calamity.
Let them be clothed with shame and dishonor
who magnify themselves against Me.

(Son prays for believers who rejoice in His Salvation)

35:27 Let them shout for joy and be glad,
who favor My righteous cause.
Yes, let them say continually, “YHVH be magnified,
Who has pleasure in the prosperity of His Servant!”
35:28 My tongue shall talk about Your righteousness
and about Your praise all day long.

It is Him. That's for certain.