Psalm 12 under the microscope

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John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
16,481
3,497
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#41
This is why I like the NASB.

It's very clear.

You, O Lord , will keep them; You will preserve him from this generation forever.
Psalms 12:7 NASB

You will keep this person of need from this generation of wicked men who strut around because vileness prevails.

It helps to remember there originally weren't numbered verses, and all passages were a part of a complete statement.
The NASB is totally misleading and false. It has added words to fit a certain theology. Of course, the NASB translators do not believe God has or can preserve His words for us today. The NASB certainly is not God's words.
 
L

Locoponydirtman

Guest
#42
The NASB is totally misleading and false. It has added words to fit a certain theology. Of course, the NASB translators do not believe God has or can preserve His words for us today. The NASB certainly is not God's words.
This is categorically false, and too stupid to respond to except that I wouldn't have any other reader be mislead.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,447
13,290
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#43
The NASB is totally misleading and false. It has added words to fit a certain theology. Of course, the NASB translators do not believe God has or can preserve His words for us today. The NASB certainly is not God's words.
Comments without evidence are opinions.

How about sticking to the thread topic instead of polluting this thread as well with your KJV-only pathos.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
16,481
3,497
113
#44
Comments without evidence are opinions.

How about sticking to the thread topic instead of polluting this thread as well with your KJV-only pathos.
I've responded several times to the OP. I apologize for sticking up for the KJV. I'm sure it will happen again if someone else speaks against it.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,447
13,290
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#45
I've responded several times to the OP. I apologize for sticking up for the KJV. I'm sure it will happen again if someone else speaks against it.
Only, you didn't. You attacked the NASB.
 

justbyfaith

Well-known member
Sep 16, 2021
4,707
462
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#46
6 The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Even as you quoted this, it is speaking of the Holy Bible; even the kjv which is the seventh in a line of translations.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,447
13,290
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#47
Even as you quoted this, it is speaking of the Holy Bible; even the kjv which is the seventh in a line of translations.
When silver is refined in a furnace, the same batch goes in and is refined seven times. That is not what happened with the English translations. The analogy is non-existent. David wasn't writing of the KJV 2600 years in advance. It's a stupid argument and should never be quoted by any intelligent person.
 

justbyfaith

Well-known member
Sep 16, 2021
4,707
462
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#48
When silver is refined in a furnace, the same batch goes in and is refined seven times. That is not what happened with the English translations. The analogy is non-existent. David wasn't writing of the KJV 2600 years in advance. It's a stupid argument and should never be quoted by any intelligent person.
Act 15:18, Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
 

justbyfaith

Well-known member
Sep 16, 2021
4,707
462
83
#50
Did you miss the part about the non-existent analogy?
Each time a new translation was developed before the kjv, the words were purified.

How then is there a non-existent analogy?
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,447
13,290
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#51
Each time a new translation was developed before the kjv, the words were purified.

How then is there a non-existent analogy?
Each new translation was made from the Greek, not from the previous edition of the English. Your case has no merit.
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
3,992
927
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#52
Hem



Strong's Number: 1992
Original Word
Word Origin

~h
from (01981)
Transliterated Word
TDNT Entry

Hem
TWOT - 504
Phonetic Spelling
Parts of Speech

haym
Masculine
Definition
  1. they, these, the same, who

NAS Word Usage - Total: 135
both 1, both* 1, ones 1, others 1, part 1, places 1, same 1, side 1, such 1, theirs 8, theirs* 3, themselves 9, there 5, these 13, things 1, this 2, those 65, very 1, where 1, which 8, which* 1, who 5, whom 3, women 1

https://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/hebrew/nas/hem-2.html

If the marginal note of the KJB is to be a Hebrew word Hem (him), the usage will still be dependent on its immediate context. While it could be used to persons (people) it also could be used to” things.”

GNB has its footnote referring to a person, though it has no notes on Psalms 12:6

That is, yours though was only one man.

While the KJB has its marginal note of literal Hebrew him (hem) that is every one of them, and them is in the discussion whether this refers to his own possession - “his people” or “his words”.

The entire context favors “his words” rather than “his people”. Aside from the vv. 2,3,4 connected to “words”, the oppression and the sighing and the puffing are all correlated to our mouth the “words” that came out of these vile persons as the context fits. Again, the usage of “them” is found in the immediate context of the things mentioned earlier.

Them

Them is used to refer to the object of a clause. In other words, it usually represents the group of people or things that have ‘experienced’ the action described by the verb, and refers back to two or more people or things that were mentioned earlier:

https://www.onestopenglish.com/ask-the-experts/grammar-them-and-they/146352.article
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,447
13,290
113
#53
Hem



Strong's Number: 1992
Original Word
Word Origin

~h
from (01981)
Transliterated Word
TDNT Entry

Hem
TWOT - 504
Phonetic Spelling
Parts of Speech

haym
Masculine
Definition
  1. they, these, the same, who

NAS Word Usage - Total: 135
both 1, both* 1, ones 1, others 1, part 1, places 1, same 1, side 1, such 1, theirs 8, theirs* 3, themselves 9, there 5, these 13, things 1, this 2, those 65, very 1, where 1, which 8, which* 1, who 5, whom 3, women 1

https://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/hebrew/nas/hem-2.html

If the marginal note of the KJB is to be a Hebrew word Hem (him), the usage will still be dependent on its immediate context. While it could be used to persons (people) it also could be used to” things.”

GNB has its footnote referring to a person, though it has no notes on Psalms 12:6

That is, yours though was only one man.

While the KJB has its marginal note of literal Hebrew him (hem) that is every one of them, and them is in the discussion whether this refers to his own possession - “his people” or “his words”.

The entire context favors “his words” rather than “his people”. Aside from the vv. 2,3,4 connected to “words”, the oppression and the sighing and the puffing are all correlated to our mouth the “words” that came out of these vile persons as the context fits. Again, the usage of “them” is found in the immediate context of the things mentioned earlier.

Them

Them is used to refer to the object of a clause. In other words, it usually represents the group of people or things that have ‘experienced’ the action described by the verb, and refers back to two or more people or things that were mentioned earlier:

https://www.onestopenglish.com/ask-the-experts/grammar-them-and-they/146352.article
So then, we have God preserving words from an evil generation.

It still says nothing in favour of the KJV. ;)
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
3,992
927
113
#54
So then, we have God preserving words from an evil generation.

It still says nothing in favour of the KJV. ;)
Umm, God's preserving his word in purity would keep us from this evil generation. The fact is the words of the LORD keep us from sinning. KJB upholds bible teaching more than Modern English versions like the NIV in which you compared and denies Christ compassion instead makes Jesus shocked and angry in Mark 1:41. The bible says God’s compassion fails not Lamentation 3:22. The NIV does not display Jesus as a compassionate one while the KJB and most of the English versions had preserved the right attitude of Christ.
KJB
And Jesus, moved with compassion, put forth his hand, and touched him, and saith unto him, I will; be thou clean.

New International Version
Jesus was indignant. He reached out his hand and touched the man. “I am willing,” he said. “Be clean!”
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,447
13,290
113
#55
Umm, God's preserving his word in purity would keep us from this evil generation.
It doesn't say that; it says that God would keep them from that generation forever. Your conclusion just doesn't follow.

The fact is the words of the LORD keep us from sinning.
Psalm 12 says nothing of the sort.

KJB upholds bible teaching more than Modern English versions like the NIV in which you compared
I'm not going to tolerate you turning this thread into another KJV-only diatribe. Kindly stick to the topic: Psalm 12!
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,487
13,065
113
#56
The idea is usually defended with the claim that English is the most commonly-spoken language at present (ignoring the prior prevalence of Latin, and later, Spanish).
and previously Greek, and now Mandarin Chinese . . . :unsure:
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
3,992
927
113
#57
So then, we have God preserving words from an evil generation.

It still says nothing in favour of the KJV. ;)
Dino, am so sorry I have so far reacted in a manner it was uncomfortable. Yes, KJB does not favor the evil generation but it talks about the evil generation.