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PERFECTION

Active member
Aug 14, 2019
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Well I don't understand this question.

I won't assume bad intentions, but to draw so much from one word is what I equated to the rabbit hole.

If it is speaking of the fallen angel "satan" (which is more a title than name as it is) then yes. The word which has been translated to "man" is being used to describe a male fallen angel.


The original word did indeed have multiple uses, as the current word does.

Do you have reason to believe that verse is speaking of the human, the antichrist who will declare a similar thing come the abomination of desolation?
Where have you read in the scripture that satin is a fallen angle.?
 

PERFECTION

Active member
Aug 14, 2019
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I'll be happy to share one of my questions for God... if you are God.

Let me know.
.
If you are truley born again ask Him yourself. He is always there and always listening.
 

PERFECTION

Active member
Aug 14, 2019
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No.

Also I believe satin is a smooth glossy fabric which produces no evil in of itself.
(😁 just teasin)

Satan is "the enemy", but much evil comes from fleshly desires and temptations being fed.

I am not sure anyone here would believe all evil comes from the same individual being spoken of in that verse.
Satan and all of his horde of demons dwell in perpetual darkness. As a Christian, I was delivered out from the
No..

They are mistaken.. But that does not mean they are all demon possesed..
We both know that being outside the Body of Christ they are judged already. Without repentance they are without hope. Thats why we continue to speak to their hopelessness. We will continue to speak truth where there is no hope that we in doing so might reach many but we will be content on what the work of the Holy Spirit will produce.

Thank You and God bless
 

Bezaleel

New member
Nov 12, 2018
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Just reverse that.
I am going to go with door number 1. "So that God could serve us. " but let's put some context around that. God is love. Love will always seek to serve. That is why during the last supper, he served his disciples. That is why he told his disciples that he who would be great, must become the servant of all. Love gives, it does not take. However, the paradox here is that God is more worthy of servitude than anyone or anything in existence. So why does a God who needs nothing from anyone, make himself of no reputation, and take upon him the form of a servant, and be made in the likeness of men? LOVE!!!! We are looking at the world upside down. His world is about giving, and ours is about taking. Once we get our view inverted, we can see his greatness, and the reason he made us.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
8,978
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So why does a God who needs nothing from anyone, make himself of no reputation, and take upon him the form of a servant, and be made in the likeness of men? LOVE!!!!
You need to be able to distinguish between the first and second comings of Christ. What you quoted applied to the time when Christ came in HUMILITY AND HUMILIATION. Then He was despised and rejected of men, a Man of Sorrows, and acquainted with grief. That work is finished and done. Christ is now glorified and exalted and seated at the right hand of the Father.

However, when the Lord Jesus Christ comes at His Second Coming, it is the exact opposite. He comes with power and great glory accompanied by all the saints and angels, bringing His wrath and judgment upon the unbelieving world. Then follows the Millennium and the eternal Kingdom of God. And when all is said and done HIS SERVANTS SHALL SERVE HIM.

And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: (Rev 22:3)

His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord. (Mt 25:21) (Note: rulers under Christ serve)

And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities. (Lk 19:17)

Even though Christians are children of God and heirs of God, they must always see themselves as unprofitable servants, saved by grace in order to serve. Our service begins on earth and continues for eternity.
 

wokinluv

Active member
Aug 17, 2019
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The voice of Truth says "THIS IS FOR MY GLORY."
Out of all the voices calling out to me...
I WILL CHOOSE TO LISTEN AND BELIEVE THE VOICE OF TRUTH.
 

PERFECTION

Active member
Aug 14, 2019
148
44
28
I am going to go with door number 1. "So that God could serve us. " but let's put some context around that. God is love. Love will always seek to serve. That is why during the last supper, he served his disciples. That is why he told his disciples that he who would be great, must become the servant of all. Love gives, it does not take. However, the paradox here is that God is more worthy of servitude than anyone or anything in existence. So why does a God who needs nothing from anyone, make himself of no reputation, and take upon him the form of a servant, and be made in the likeness of men? LOVE!!!! We are looking at the world upside down. His world is about giving, and ours is about taking. Once we get our view inverted, we can see his greatness, and the reason he made us.
Before we can understand our purpose in this world we must first accept who God is. God Himself tells us He does not know from where He began. He tells us He has always been.Kind of hard to wrap your mind around but thats what He gives us take it or leave it. Next, all of these wonderful and glorious things he ALLOWS us to know about Him comes with conditions. We can only know who He is by knowing His Son and by knowing I mean in completeness "for the word of God is as foolishness unto the natural man" thats why we as Christians become so angry with educated fools who try to tell us why we worship God (and yes I said angry Christians we are not that perfect yet). Also, and this is the place where we have the most difficult time of all, God does not, has not, and will not ever NEED ANYTHING. Perhaps for us as Christians to better understand this we can answer another question. Is it possible for God to tell a lie? Most people would say that He is to righteous to do such a thing, which is true but of its self is not the answer. The reason God cannot tell a lie is simple its because every word that comes out of His mouth becomes reality. If He says black is white thats the way it is, not only now but forever in the past present an future. NOTHING escapes His power to speak things in and out of existence. God has never learned anything. Now today, the Father has given all power in this creation over to His Son whom of course is as much God as His Father. So if God has never been lacking in anything why create such a bothersome creature as man? Its like driving a nail in your foot so you can experience pain. We know God Loves man, He Himself tells us so but does this Love come to us out of obligation, after all He did did created us. If we accept the belief that Gods is, was,and always will be complete in every way, why was man ever created what is his purpose? It has to be far more glorious than anything our self inflicted humility is able to accept. Remember, the angles themselves desire look into these things.

May God continue to reveal Himself to us all.
 
Dec 9, 2011
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neither wild plants nor grains were growing on the earth. For the Lord God had not yet sent rain to water the earth, and there were no people to cultivate the soil.

The Lord God placed the man in the Garden of Eden to tend and watch over it.
Genesis 2:5‭, ‬15

He was in need of a gardener 😋
You really believe that?
 

PERFECTION

Active member
Aug 14, 2019
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PERFECTION said: Dear Adstar: I love your discussion points. Now I have question?


I would offer..This MAN can be any man that brings another gospel, another mediator other than Christ alone.

One of the differences is in the word bright as in "bright" and morning star when referring to the Son of God as to the hidden glory. A source and or as a reflective witness.

Revelation 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

Stars are used as witnesses. Just as the Sun and moon are used as witnesses of time. The Son of God as the bright source of light is also witness to that light. You could say the Father the source, and Son work a witness together working in perfect harmony and submissiveness as the peace of God's government .

Satan who is not a man is simply a lying spirit. He has not voice or form of his own. He speaks his lies as the father of any lie.

Influencing the heart of man to destroy the true source of bright light.

Peter used one of the many antichrists (humans) as THE MAN that made the earth to tremble that did shake kingdoms.

Peter used as a example was forgiven of his blasphemy trying to destroy the gospel .Today and until the end of time men cannot no longer be forgiven .

Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.
But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind
me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men. Mathew16:22-23

I would say if the bright light of the gospel is not revealing the path... rest. . . the new light where there is no night is just over the horizon.

A beautiful parable below

And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the (bright) light thereof. And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it. And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there. And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it. Revelation 21: 22-26

Twice to emhasize he uses into it .No glory coming from the clay
On this stage called life where we play out our time on earth how many are in the cast? We know we are I am sure we can agree God is always present as well. How many more are here and who are they?
 

OneOfHis

Well-known member
Mar 24, 2019
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Dont be sorry there is no offense here. You ask me if I think I am God. To answer your question in the context you ask, NO ! I am not God.......! If I where God in the context to which you speak I would simply reprogram your mind . This way we could spend our time growing a deeper relationship in Christ.
Is there a context in which you believe you are a god? (or God)
 

OneOfHis

Well-known member
Mar 24, 2019
341
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Where have you read in the scripture that satin is a fallen angle.?
I am not sure if scripture speaks of that particular fabric or geometrical shape.
😃

___________

Revelation 12:9 - And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
________
Job Chapter 2

1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.
__________
2 Corinthians 11:14 - And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
________
Luke 10:18

“And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.”

_______
Ezekiel 28
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
______

🤔
Could you please be more direct with your points.

I won't walk into a trap.


If you by any chance have a very unique point of view on scriptures, please explain it.

Please do not avoid simple questions or ask loaded questions.


From our talk so far you give me the impression you want to believe you are God in some context, or equal to Him in some way.

On top of that you seem to deny that when our modern bible says "lucifer" it is not speaking of the who we could call 'satan' (the enemy) or the first fallen angel known as the devil.

But because of the way you speak, you leave openings and make it hard to see what you mean.


(i understand satan is also a title of the enemy, and there are many devils, but this is another discussion i believe)
 

OneOfHis

Well-known member
Mar 24, 2019
341
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93
I am not sure if scripture speaks of that particular fabric or geometrical shape.
😃

___________

Revelation 12:9 - And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
________
Job Chapter 2

1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.
__________
2 Corinthians 11:14 - And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
________
Luke 10:18

“And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.”

_______
Ezekiel 28
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
______

🤔
Could you please be more direct with your points.

I won't walk into a trap.


If you by any chance have a very unique point of view on scriptures, please explain it.

Please do not avoid simple questions or ask loaded questions.


From our talk so far you give me the impression you want to believe you are God in some context, or equal to Him in some way.

On top of that you seem to deny that when our modern bible says "lucifer" it is not speaking of the who we could call 'satan' (the enemy) or the first fallen angel known as the devil.

But because of the way you speak, you leave openings and make it hard to see what you mean.


(i understand satan is also a title of the enemy, and there are many devils, but this is another discussion i believe)

whoops

when i said "you seem to deny" i meant "you seem to claim"

im sorry
 

PERFECTION

Active member
Aug 14, 2019
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Is there a context in which you believe you are a god? (or God)
Is there a context in which you believe you are a god? (or God)
Is there context in which you believe you are a son of God? There is NO context in which I believe myself to be God. To be clear I am a son of God. Challenging my relationship with Christ with such nonsense may stroke your ego but it gains us nothing in the way of fellowship. I cannot remember what I said that sent you down this course, nevertheless, it is obvious to me at this point I am not going to be able recover. However I do wish to continue with our conversation, Im hoping some where down the line you will be willing to share with me your relationship with God. Are you His child, are you His son? Do you consider yourself a teacher of His Word?
 

OneOfHis

Well-known member
Mar 24, 2019
341
689
93
Is there context in which you believe you are a son of God? There is NO context in which I believe myself to be God. To be clear I am a son of God. Challenging my relationship with Christ with such nonsense may stroke your ego but it gains us nothing in the way of fellowship. I cannot remember what I said that sent you down this course, nevertheless, it is obvious to me at this point I am not going to be able recover. However I do wish to continue with our conversation, Im hoping some where down the line you will be willing to share with me your relationship with God. Are you His child, are you His son? Do you consider yourself a teacher of His Word?
I have not inserted ego into this discussion, just when you try to speak in a crypic indirect way on a forum with many suspect beliefs... I will try make an effort to understand you.

I am indeed one of God's children, a member of the body of Christ.
I am very happy to hear I misunderstood your claims earlier when asking why you wouldn't be considered God's equal.

I am sorry if my questions offended you but it is very important that we speak clearly, we are on the internet and communication via text alone can sometimes make it hard to understand if we don't try to make ourselves very clear.

If I can be used to shine light on the truth I am grateful for the opportunity, but I consider myself a believer of His word more than a "teacher".


Thank you again for your clear response.... I am relieved..😅

Not too long ago I had tried to help someone who thought themselves as a god face to face.... (they elevated self to the level of Christ in thier beliefs...)

Was not a fruitful discussion...
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
8,978
2,771
113
He was in need of a gardener
I expect you were joking. And the Garden of Eden was far more than a garden. It was an orchard-cum-garden-cum-herb *forest* (if that's the correct term).

God gave man the stewardship of all creation, and then a specific stewardship of Eden. which tells us that human beings were created to both work and worship. Laziness (or slothfulness) is condemned in the Bible, whereas diligent and earnest labor is approved. But the Fall changed everything.
 

PERFECTION

Active member
Aug 14, 2019
148
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28
I am not sure if scripture speaks of that particular fabric or geometrical shape.
😃

___________

Revelation 12:9 - And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
________
Job Chapter 2

1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.
__________
2 Corinthians 11:14 - And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
________
Luke 10:18

“And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.”

_______
Ezekiel 28
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
______

🤔
Could you please be more direct with your points.

I won't walk into a trap.


If you by any chance have a very unique point of view on scriptures, please explain it.

Please do not avoid simple questions or ask loaded questions.


From our talk so far you give me the impression you want to believe you are God in some context, or equal to Him in some way.

On top of that you seem to deny that when our modern bible says "lucifer" it is not speaking of the who we could call 'satan' (the enemy) or the first fallen angel known as the devil.

But because of the way you speak, you leave openings and make it hard to see what you mean.


(i understand satan is also a title of the enemy, and there are many devils, but this is another discussion i believe)
I am not sure if scripture speaks of that particular fabric or geometrical shape.
😃

___________

Revelation 12:9 - And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
________
Job Chapter 2

1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.
__________
2 Corinthians 11:14 - And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
________
Luke 10:18

“And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.”

_______
Ezekiel 28
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
______

🤔
Could you please be more direct with your points.

I won't walk into a trap.


If you by any chance have a very unique point of view on scriptures, please explain it.

Please do not avoid simple questions or ask loaded questions.


From our talk so far you give me the impression you want to believe you are God in some context, or equal to Him in some way.

On top of that you seem to deny that when our modern bible says "lucifer" it is not speaking of the who we could call 'satan' (the enemy) or the first fallen angel known as the devil.

But because of the way you speak, you leave openings and make it hard to see what you mean.


(i understand satan is also a title of the enemy, and there are many devils, but this is another discussion i believe)
You seem to have a great deal of difficulty when it comes to discussion of scripture.In all you have mentioned above you cannot bring yourself to realize the fact that know where does it say or insinuate that satan is a fallen angle nor does it say or insinuate that Lucifer and satan are one in the same. If you believe that satan is a fallen angle then you must believe there was or is provided for him an avenue of redemption . You must also believe that God was and is powerless to deal with this creatures disobedience. You are aware that angles are not freewill creatures? No the truth is satan along with his horde was created as a lier,killer, destroyer.He has no power except that which God gives him. There was a time when the Sons of God presented themselves to God and satan was allowed to be present to accuse . At some point God ended this process and cast satan and his hordes to the earth. Now neither man nor devil are allowed to come into His presence until the dispensation has been made full.

Let me leave you with this question IF satan is a rebellious angle why does God not take away his power? Is God powerless to deal with this evil? Is God indifferent to the suffering satan brings on humanity . You cant walk down the middle of the fence either you believe satan is a rebellious angle who inflicts suffering on Christians and who God seems to have no power to control, or satan was created to do just what he does and we have been given power to control his influence over us. Again you cannot say satan as a fallen angle came to the earth with all his evil and God gave us the job of fighting him. And how is it that satan all of a sudden and had of these demons at his command and all of a sudden he came into the knowledge of what evil is. When Adam and Eve ate from the tree of the knowledge of evil they did not take on the evil nature of satan. So again why did God not deal with this "fallen angle " right from the start. Your ideas are contrary to the knowledge and power of God
 

Mii

Well-known member
Mar 23, 2019
484
299
63
So if God has never been lacking in anything why create such a bothersome creature as man? Its like driving a nail in your foot so you can experience pain.

May God continue to reveal Himself to us all.
Resonate with that for sure. Not to take what you said out of context or anything.
 

OneOfHis

Well-known member
Mar 24, 2019
341
689
93
You seem to have a great deal of difficulty when it comes to discussion of scripture.
Only with people who dance around the topics at hand to play into thier own agenda.


In all you have mentioned above you cannot bring yourself to realize the fact that know where does it say or insinuate that satan is a fallen angle nor does it say or insinuate that Lucifer and satan are one in the same. If you believe that satan is a fallen angle then you must believe there was or is provided for him an avenue of redemption . You must also believe that God was and is powerless to deal with this creatures disobedience. You are aware that angles are not freewill creatures? No the truth is satan along with his horde was created as a lier,killer, destroyer.He has no power except that which God gives him. There was a time when the Sons of God presented themselves to God and satan was allowed to be present to accuse . At some point God ended this process and cast satan and his hordes to the earth. Now neither man nor devil are allowed to come into His presence until the dispensation has been made full.
A lot of words... not one addresses the scriptures...

I will repost for you🙂

Revelation 12:9 - And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
________
Job Chapter 2

1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.
__________
2 Corinthians 11:14 - And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
________
Luke 10:18

“And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.”

_______
Ezekiel 28
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

Let me leave you with this question IF satan is a rebellious angle why does God not take away his power? Is God powerless to deal with this evil? Is God indifferent to the suffering satan brings on humanity . You cant walk down the middle of the fence either you believe satan is a rebellious angle who inflicts suffering on Christians and who God seems to have no power to control, or satan was created to do just what he does and we have been given power to control his influence over us. Again you cannot say satan as a fallen angle came to the earth with all his evil and God gave us the job of fighting him. And how is it that satan all of a sudden and had of these demons at his command and all of a sudden he came into the knowledge of what evil is. When Adam and Eve ate from the tree of the knowledge of evil they did not take on the evil nature of satan. So again why did God not deal with this "fallen angle " right from the start. Your ideas are contrary to the knowledge and power of God

Lol we can have a back and forth all day but this is silly, it is like asking "why does God allow murder"....

Your questions seem ridiculous to me and are filled with presuppositions I disagree with entirely.


(also satin is not satan, angles are not angels, and no one here would suggest God is powerless, your strawmen are pointless and weak arguments that hold no more weight than someone in unbelief saying "if God loves the world why is there cancer" or "why do Christians suffer if there is a God")

Be genuine if you want to debate, but silly strawmen and presuppositions will be dealt with as such.