Puzzled, Why Not Talk to God About the Sabbath?

[john832]

yes because they met on the first day of the week as the scriptures clearly show and teach.

Clearly?

Act 13:13 Now when Paul and his company loosed from Paphos, they came to Perga in Pamphylia: and John departing from them returned to Jerusalem.
Act 13:14 But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down.

Act 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

Here we have the GENTILES desiring that Paul teach them on the next Sabbath.

Act 16:13 And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted thither.
Act 16:14 And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul.

I am pretty sure that Thyatira is not an Israelite city.

Act 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,

AS HIS MANNER WAS?

Act 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.

Uh, Greeks are Gentiles.

Seems to me that it was clearly Paul's manner to meet on the Sabbath.

I'll deal with Acts 20:7, I Cor 16 and Rev 1:10 tomorrow.

 

[john832]

What part of being the first day of the week is confusing to you?

Where does this show that this is a worship meeting and that it happened regularly?

In point of fact, these disciples were confused and not sure which direction to go and were simply leaning on each other. The beginning of the church did not happen until SEVEN FULL WEEKS LATER, the Feast of Pentecost.

You are simply reaching for some kind of justification here.

 

[Kerry]

Well you certainly wouldn't go on a day that wasn't the so called Sabbath because no one would be there. When Paul went there, he preached the gospel and what is that?

 

[john832]

I told you the truth. Now live with having rejected it.

Oh by the way, did not KNOW that Passover Week had TWO SABBATHS in it?

The Seventh day of Passover, is ALSO called a SABBATH.

The Same rules about NO BODIES were allowed to remain on that cross on SABBATH, also applied to Passover Sabbath.





Amazing what one can learn, when he studies Under a practicing Jew that became a born again, ordained Christian Minister.

You can call a day a space shuttle if you want, Christ plainly shows it is twenty four hours...

Joh 11:9 Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world.
Joh 11:10 But if a man walk in the night, he stumbleth, because there is no light in him.

 

[john832]

Well then according to you Jesus fulfilled part of the law and left part unfulfilled ...that's impossible. And for the believer in Christ there is in fact a new heaven and a new earth...

2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Now you and others my not be able to see the end of the law...its because your blinded by the law

2Co 3:13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

Yep, that veil is still over your eyes.

 

[john832]

lol what?? The gathering was of the funds...and the church never met on the Sabbath but clearly they often and intentionally met on the first day of the week.

Show me all these scriptures that say this.

 

[john832]

Well you certainly wouldn't go on a day that wasn't the so called Sabbath because no one would be there. When Paul went there, he preached the gospel and what is that?

And he preached it on the Sabbath. Have you ever heard of the Polycarp and Anticetus? How about the Quarto-Deciman controversy? The Sabbath and Feast Days were kept and there were discussions about this in the third and fourth centuries until the day of the sun was declared the day of worship by Constantine.

 

[Mitspa]

Show me all these scriptures that say this.

Ive posted them over and over...

 

[Mitspa]

Where does this show that this is a worship meeting and that it happened regularly?

In point of fact, these disciples were confused and not sure which direction to go and were simply leaning on each other. The beginning of the church did not happen until SEVEN FULL WEEKS LATER, the Feast of Pentecost.

You are simply reaching for some kind of justification here.

What do your think breaking of bread is?

 

[Hizikyah]

What do your think breaking of bread is?

Of course they were dwelling on Yah in all their gatherings, but I think Scripture is clear:

Acts 2:46 Parallel Verses


New International Version
Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts,

English Standard Version
And day by day, attending the temple together and breaking bread in their homes, they received their food with glad and generous hearts,

New American Standard Bible
Day by day continuing with one mind in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they were taking their meals together with gladness and sincerity of heart,

King James Bible
And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,

LOL and just because you eat food does not mean one rejects the true bread.
(that statement is a guard against misunderstanding)

 

[Mitspa]

Ac 20:7 ¶ And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread


This is church folks! they never met on the Sabbath.....but always on the first day of the week!

 

[Hizikyah]

Of course they were dwelling on Yah in all their gatherings, but I think Scripture is clear:

Acts 2:46 Parallel Verses


New International Version
Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts,

English Standard Version
And day by day, attending the temple together and breaking bread in their homes, they received their food with glad and generous hearts,

New American Standard Bible
Day by day continuing with one mind in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they were taking their meals together with gladness and sincerity of heart,

King James Bible
And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,

LOL and just because you eat food does not mean one rejects the true bread.
(that statement is a guard against misunderstanding)

Ac 20:7 ¶ And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread


This is church folks! they never met on the Sabbath.....but always on the first day of the week!

LOL. SO every day means the first day?

Matt 24:20, "But pray that your flight will not be in the winter, nor on the Sabbath Day, For then will be great tribulation, such as has not come to pass since the beginning of the world to this time--no, nor ever will be."

Why does Jesus think the Sabbath "day" will be kept by those that this prophecy is for? And we are even given a time marker, "then will be great tribulation"

I think I know! For Scripture explains!!!

Because it is said that a man of pure evil would change the Sabbath in the mindsof the people:

Daniyl 7:25, "And he will speak great words against Yahweh, and will wear out the saints of Yahweh, and think to change times and Laws..."

 

[VCO]

You can call a day a space shuttle if you want, Christ plainly shows it is twenty four hours...

Joh 11:9 Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world.
Joh 11:10 But if a man walk in the night, he stumbleth, because there is no light in him.

The Jewish day is of no fixed length.
. . .
In Judaism, an hour is defined as 1/12 of the time from sunrise to sunset, so during the winter, an hour can be much less than 60 minutes, and during the summer, it can be much more than 60 minutes. A Judaic hour is known as a 'sha'ah z'manit' which means a timely hour.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_calendar

Out of those facts the Catholic Church, failing to realize that there were TWO Sabbaths the week of Passover, Thursday and Saturday, called it GOOD FRIDAY, and came up with the theory of counting a few minutes as a DAY. HOWEVER when you study Judaism, you find out there were two days of preparation and two days considered Sabbaths during Passover week, and then you realize it is a much better theory that Jesus was crucified on Wednesday and NOT Friday.

The Problem With the Friday-Death/Sunday-Resurrection Theory

It is helpful at this juncture to review the statements made by Messiah Yahusha regarding the time he would be in the grave. He told the Pharisees that if they destroyed the temple, he would raise it again "in three days." Next, he told the crowds that "as Yonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, sothe Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth." And he told his disciples privately that "he must be killed and after three days rise again." So, he would be raised in three days and after three days, and would spend three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

. . .


So, it was Preparation Day and evening was approaching, which was the rest of a Shabbat. As he laid him in the tomb, the text says that the Sabbath was about to begin. There were several women who saw where he laid the body. These women went home and prepared spices. But we know that since the Sabbath was about to begin, the women could not do the work of preparing spices until after the Sabbath.
So, it then says that they rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment. There is some ambiguity in the text, but what is clear from the Jewish customs is that they could not have done the work of preparing the spices on this Sabbath day. But then it says that they discovered the empty tomb after the Sabbath. So, when did they prepare the spices?
The answer to this is to understand that Yahusha was crucified on the day that the lambs were slaughtered for the Passover. This would be on the afternoon of the 14th of Aviv, the first month of the Hebrew calendar. Then, that evening, as the 15th day of the month arrived, the Feast of Unleavened Bread arrives. This day is like a Sabbath day in that no work at all was to be done (except for the preparation of the meal). So the women, who saw where Yahusha was laid, went home and could not prepare spices the next day because it was a day of rest. The following day, they could prepare the spices. But then the day after that was the weekly Sabbath, so that they could not do any work again, which is why they couldn't put the spices on the body of the deceased Messiah yet. The next morning, after the weekly Sabbath, they went at daybreak to find an empty tomb.
So the three days that Messiah Yahusha had promised to be in the heart of the earth were: the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread - first day; the following day which is when the ladies prepared the spices - second day; and the weekly Sabbath day - the third day. Then the following morning, they discovered the empty tomb.
When you count this up, it means that Yahusha was hung on the fourth day of the week (Wednesday) and was laid in the tomb as the fifth day of the week was about to begin (Wednesday night). Then he rested Thursday, Friday and Saturday in the tomb. That's three complete days! No need to fudge the numbers there! That also means that he laid in the tomb Wednesday night (as we reckon it), Thursday night and Friday night - all night long - a full three nights in the tomb, just as Yahusha promised.
So the three days and three nights are: Wednesday night (first night), Thursday daytime (first day), Thursday night (second night), Friday daytime (second day), Friday night (third night), and Saturday all day long (third day). That comes to a full three days and three nights. And "after three days and three nights" he was to rise from the dead.


So then, when did he get up from the tomb?

Matthew 28:1 - The Time of Yahusha's Resurrection


Since Jesus was laid in the tomb at sunset (no matter what day of the week that was), the only way the prominent prophesy of the three days and three nights could be fulfilled would be if he rose from the dead at sunset. And that would have had to take place at the end of the Sabbath, since on the morning of the first day of the week the tomb was empty.
. . . http://www.bibletruth.cc/SignofJonah.htm#Matthew_12:39-40_-_The_Sign_of_Yonah:_3_Days_and_3_Nights

 

[gotime]

No, the book of Revelations is not a book of doctrine..its revealing hidden things spoken in a mystery...(past, present and future) and what you are referring to is when these things come to this world...we (believers) are already in Christ and OLD THINGS HAVE PASSED AWAY AND BEHOLD ALL THINGS ARE MADE NEW! For Christ fulfilled every jot and tittle or none of it for those who are IN HIM.

did you even try to read what I said? because it seems like you didn't just as you failed to read what Paul said. you are misusing that text in a big way. The heavens and the earth are not made new, nor has the heavens and earth passed away. Paul is not talking about the heavens and the earth.

If you think that because He says: "all things" that you are justified in your position then fine because that is taking Paul's writing out of context an twisting them.

bet each t their own, that's your choice.

 

[john832]

What do your think breaking of bread is?

Let me help you out here...

From Bullinger's Companion Bible...

"break bread. See note on Act_2:42.

OK, let's see his note on Acts 2:42...

breaking of bread. This was the common meal. Compare verses:Act_2:44-46 and Mat_14:19. Isa_58:7."

So now, the verses Bullinger referenced...

Act 2:44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
Act 2:45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
Act 2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,

Mat 14:19 And he commanded the multitude to sit down on the grass, and took the five loaves, and the two fishes, and looking up to heaven, he blessed, and brake, and gave the loaves to his disciples, and the disciples to the multitude.

Isa 58:7 Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh?

It doesn't matter what you or I THINK, what matters is what is the truth.

Act 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

to break:

G2806

κλάω
klaō
klah'-o
A primary verb; to break (specifically of bread): - break.
Total KJV occurrences: 15

bread:

G740

ἄρτος
artos
ar'-tos
From G142; bread (as raised) or a loaf: - (shew-) bread, loaf.
Total KJV occurrences: 99

They ate a meal. We call 'em potlucks today.

 

[john832]

Out of those facts the Catholic Church, failing to realize that there were TWO Sabbaths the week of Passover, Thursday and Saturday, called it GOOD FRIDAY, and came up with the theory of counting a few minutes as a DAY. HOWEVER when you study Judaism, you find out there were two days of preparation and two days considered Sabbaths during Passover week, and then you realize it is a much better theory that Jesus was crucified on Wednesday and NOT Friday.

[/SIZE]

Jesus Christ was ABSOLUTELY crucified on Wednesday, April 25, 31AD buried at/around sunset on Wednesday, April 25, 31 AD and arose on Sabbath afternoon, April 28, 31AD at/about sunset. EXACTLY three days and three nights in the tomb just as He said. Else this scripture is not true...

Mat 12:39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
Mat 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

And if He was not in the tomb exactly three days and three nights, then the ONLY SIGN that He was the Messiah failed and He failed. He did not fail.

Here is a very interesting article I stumbled on a few years ago...

Wave Sheaf -- What We Found

 

[Mitspa]

Let me help you out here...

From Bullinger's Companion Bible...

"break bread. See note on Act_2:42.

OK, let's see his note on Acts 2:42...

breaking of bread. This was the common meal. Compare verses:Act_2:44-46 and Mat_14:19. Isa_58:7."

So now, the verses Bullinger referenced...

Act 2:44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
Act 2:45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
Act 2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,

Mat 14:19 And he commanded the multitude to sit down on the grass, and took the five loaves, and the two fishes, and looking up to heaven, he blessed, and brake, and gave the loaves to his disciples, and the disciples to the multitude.

Isa 58:7 Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh?

It doesn't matter what you or I THINK, what matters is what is the truth.

Act 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

to break:

G2806

κλάω
klaō
klah'-o
A primary verb; to break (specifically of bread): - break.
Total KJV occurrences: 15

bread:

G740

ἄρτος
artos
ar'-tos
From G142; bread (as raised) or a loaf: - (shew-) bread, loaf.
Total KJV occurrences: 99

They ate a meal. We call 'em potlucks today.

Breaking of bread is the communion of the Lords Body...any first year bible student would know that. And they always met on the first day and never on the Sabbath....unless you can prove that by scripture like I have?

 

[Mitspa]

did you even try to read what I said? because it seems like you didn't just as you failed to read what Paul said. you are misusing that text in a big way. The heavens and the earth are not made new, nor has the heavens and earth passed away. Paul is not talking about the heavens and the earth.

If you think that because He says: "all things" that you are justified in your position then fine because that is taking Paul's writing out of context an twisting them.

bet each t their own, that's your choice.

Maybe your not saved? Maybe your not in Christ? So your still under the law....every jot and tittle ..because its either all or nothing.... But here is the new heaven for the believer...

2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

What part of all does not include all? Just like what part of every jot and tittle does not include every jot and tittle? What you just don't believe the bible?

 

[Mitspa]

LOL. SO every day means the first day?

Matt 24:20, "But pray that your flight will not be in the winter, nor on the Sabbath Day, For then will be great tribulation, such as has not come to pass since the beginning of the world to this time--no, nor ever will be."

Why does Jesus think the Sabbath "day" will be kept by those that this prophecy is for? And we are even given a time marker, "then will be great tribulation"

I think I know! For Scripture explains!!!

Because it is said that a man of pure evil would change the Sabbath in the mindsof the people:

Daniyl 7:25, "And he will speak great words against Yahweh, and will wear out the saints of Yahweh, and think to change times and Laws..."

Col 2:13 ¶ And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14 Blotting out the handwriting of dogma that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Col 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
16 ¶ Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath

 

[john832]

Ac 20:7 ¶ And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread


This is church folks! they never met on the Sabbath.....but always on the first day of the week!

Here we go again…

Act 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

First of all, what is ‘breaking bread’? Is this the Eucahrist? Barclay’s has this…

A YOUNG MAN FALLS ASLEEP (Ac 20:7-12)
20:7-12 On the first day of the week, when we had gathered together to break bread, Paul, who was about to leave on the next day, spoke to them, and he prolonged his talk until midnight. There were many lamps in the upper room where we were assembled. A young man called Eutychus was sitting by the window. He began to be overcome by a deep sleep. While Paul was talking he was still more overcome by sleep and he fell right down from the third floor and was taken up dead. Paul went down and threw himself on him. He put his arms round him and said, "Stop making a fuss, for his life is still in him." So he went back upstairs and broke bread and ate; and he talked with them a long time until dawn came and so he departed. And they brought in the boy alive and were greatly comforted.


This vivid story is clearly an eye-witness account; and it is one of the first accounts we have of what a Christian service was like.

It talks twice about breaking of bread. In the early Church there were two closely related things. One was what was called the Love Feast. To it all contributed and it was a real meal, often the only proper meal that poor slaves got all week. Here Christians ate in loving fellowship with each other. The other was the Lord's Supper which was observed during or immediately after the Love Feast. It may well be that we have lost something of great value in the happy togetherness of the common meal. It marked as nothing else could the family spirit of the Church.

It was a meal. We call them potlucks today.

From Bullinger’s …

break bread. See note on Act_2:42.

So, from the notes on Acts 2:42…

breaking of bread. This was the common meal.

Secondly, what day was this…

Act 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

The word first here is…

G3391
μία
mia
mee'-ah
Irregular feminine of G1520; one or first: - a (certain), + agree, first, one, X other.

And it means first. Now for day, hmmm, day is in italics, that means it was not in the original but was added so there is no Greek for day. So the next words are…

‘of the’ and the translators got those from the Greek…

G3588
ὁ, ἡ, τό
ho hē to
ho, hay, to
The masculine, feminine (second) and neuter (third) forms, in all their inflections; the definite article; the (sometimes to be supplied, at others omitted, in English idiom): - the, this, that, one, he, she, it, etc.

So, ‘of the’ is the definite article. The next word is ‘week’ and it comes from…

G4521
σάββατον
sabbaton
sab'-bat-on
Of Hebrew origin [H7676]; the Sabbath (that is, Shabbath), or day of weekly repose from secular avocations (also the observance or institution itself); by extension a se'nnight, that is, the interval between two Sabbaths; likewise the plural in all the above applications: - sabbath (day), week.

Sabbaton, the Sabbath. So how are we to understand this? Let’s look at the Diaglott…

Act 20:7 In and the first of the sabbaths, having been assembled of us to break bread, the Paul discoursed to them, being about to depart on the morrow; continued and the discourse till midnight.

The first of the Sabbaths? What does that mean?

Dr. Bullinger tells us this…

Acts 20:7

first, &c. = first day of the sabbaths, i.e. the first day for reckoning the seven sabbaths to Pentecost. It depended upon the harvest (Deu_16:9), and was always from the morrow after the weekly sabbath when the wave sheaf was presented (Lev_23:15). In Joh_20:1 this was the fourth day after the Crucifixion, "the Lord's Passover. "Compare App-156. This was by Divine ordering. But in A.D. 57 it was twelve days after the week of unleavened bread, and therefore more than a fortnight later than in A.D. 29.

This was actually on the Sabbath and continued into late Saturday night. Now the interesting thing about this is that on the next day, Sunday, Paul walked 19 miles across the peninsula to Assos to meet the others…

Act 20:13 And we went before to ship, and sailed unto Assos, there intending to take in Paul: for so had he appointed, minding himself to go afoot.
Act 20:14 And when he met with us at Assos, we took him in, and came to Mitylene.

From Troas to Assos is approximately 19 miles. When I was in the Boy Scouts many years ago, we went on a few 20 mile hikes and that is a long walk in one day. It took several hours to walk 20 miles and required a great deal of effort. What a strange way to keep the “Lord’s Day”.

In reality, Paul preached to them on the Sabbath and continued on into the night. He was long winded and reminds me of Gerald Waterhouse. His typical sermon was about 3 to 4 hours.