question about being saved

[NodMyHeadLikeYeah]

My dad is the pastor of a church here in my city, there is a couple in his congregation who were very dedicated believers, she led bible studies, was on the worship team...you get the point, her husband was a christian but struggled heavily with an addiction.

Ok so two months ago out of the blue she emails my dad saying she has found out the real name of God and its Yah, and the trinity is man made, she has become part of some kind of hebrew movement or is it israelite movement...something like that... her husband has jumped on board as well.

I was talking to my dad about them tonight, asking if he has heard from them. Anyways we get to talking and he says, i now question if they were even saved, ive heard several other people in the church say the same thing...

So im very curious, why would you question if they were saved. Are the people that fell away from god never really saved in the first place?? This may be a dumb question but i really would like a good solid answer

 

[cronjecj]

My dad is the pastor of a church here in my city, there is a couple in his congregation who were very dedicated believers, she led bible studies, was on the worship team...you get the point, her husband was a christian but struggled heavily with an addiction.

Ok so two months ago out of the blue she emails my dad saying she has found out the real name of God and its Yah, and the trinity is man made, she has become part of some kind of hebrew movement or is it israelite movement...something like that... her husband has jumped on board as well.

I was talking to my dad about them tonight, asking if he has heard from them. Anyways we get to talking and he says, i now question if they were even saved, ive heard several other people in the church say the same thing...

So im very curious, why would you question if they were saved. Are the people that fell away from god never really saved in the first place?? This may be a dumb question but i really would like a good solid answer

Hebrews 6:4-6
It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

 

[NodMyHeadLikeYeah]

Hebrews 6:4-6
It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

That doesnt help at all. I dont even understand any of that actually.

 

[cronjecj]

That doesnt help at all. I dont even understand any of that actually.

lolz just read the high lighted words... It is impossible for those who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance.

Meaning it is possible that those couple you are speaking of were saved but they have rejected the truth and turned to somethings else? Or they just attended church act like Christians but they never were i guess the 1st one makes more sense.

Did i understand your post correctly?

 

[nanabean]

Nodsmyheadlikeyeah..........I only dared poke my head into Bible Discussion forum because it was your thread. I have wondered this same thing many times,.........but, I too am now nodding my head like, Yeah.....ok......that's the type of answer I see alot in here. And I am with you......I don't get it at all either!!

 

[AnandaHya]

My dad is the pastor of a church here in my city, there is a couple in his congregation who were very dedicated believers, she led bible studies, was on the worship team...you get the point, her husband was a christian but struggled heavily with an addiction.

Ok so two months ago out of the blue she emails my dad saying she has found out the real name of God and its Yah, and the trinity is man made, she has become part of some kind of hebrew movement or is it israelite movement...something like that... her husband has jumped on board as well.

I was talking to my dad about them tonight, asking if he has heard from them. Anyways we get to talking and he says, i now question if they were even saved, ive heard several other people in the church say the same thing...

So im very curious, why would you question if they were saved. Are the people that fell away from god never really saved in the first place?? This may be a dumb question but i really would like a good solid answer

i think sometimes we would rather believe they were never saved in the first place then to leave the truth and be forever forsaken. that is what that verse says. if you knew Jesus and left Him you are forever condemned like Judas Isacariot.

We really can't know if they were saved or not, only God can really say.

However if you look at the case of Judas who walked with Jesus and did miracles in His name yet betrayed Him.

 

[cronjecj]

Nodsmyheadlikeyeah..........I only dared poke my head into Bible Discussion forum because it was your thread. I have wondered this same thing many times,.........but, I too am now nodding my head like, Yeah.....ok......that's the type of answer I see alot in here. And I am with you......I don't get it at all either!!

im nodding my head like yea...lol

what im trying to say is that it is very possible they were never saved in the first place but its more possible to think that they were saved but fell away from their faith because they do not know their bible that well maybe?

Anyway what AnandaHya said makes more sense.

 

[AnandaHya]

I don't know Nods to betrayed by someone you trust hurts

and the congregation needs to take that pain to God and ask Him to heal and show them His truth

and how to keep others from being deceived and lead astray.

especially those who were lead by them in their small group Bible discussion.

many seeds not of God might have been planted and might need to be uprooted by your father

since God has entrusted him with that responsibility to be discerning and protect the flock of God's children.

its a tough job being a pastor and he will need all the prayers and support by those around him.

 

[jonathanbchristian]

My dad is the pastor of a church here in my city, there is a couple in his congregation who were very dedicated believers, she led bible studies, was on the worship team...you get the point, her husband was a christian but struggled heavily with an addiction.

Ok so two months ago out of the blue she emails my dad saying she has found out the real name of God and its Yah, and the trinity is man made, she has become part of some kind of hebrew movement or is it israelite movement...something like that... her husband has jumped on board as well.

I was talking to my dad about them tonight, asking if he has heard from them. Anyways we get to talking and he says, i now question if they were even saved, ive heard several other people in the church say the same thing...

So im very curious, why would you question if they were saved. Are the people that fell away from god never really saved in the first place?? This may be a dumb question but i really would like a good solid answer

It does not sound to me like they are lost, from what you said. I do not see how they are lost. Sounds like they just want to learn more about Jews. You could call God by some of His Jewish names. Alot of people do not believe in the Trinity but they are saved, for example, the United Pentecostal Church or other "Oneness" groups.

 

[rainacorn]

I remember reading an article about this a while back. Interesting stuff.

I know I did a lot of flip flopping throughout my life. To be a Christian or not to be?

There were times where I was certain I was saved and times where I felt like I had too many questions to really feel the spirit.

Now that I actually KNOW the truth, it becomes so obvious that I never really knew it before. I was never really saved before. I got the idea and even wanted to have faith, but I didn't actually have it until now. I was playing pretend. I was never really committed before.

In the moment, I would have told you with certainty that I was a Christian. I would have been offended if you questioned it. In hindsight, it wasn't real. It was a facade. I wanted to be in the club and was gonna fake it 'til I made it.

I think there are a lot of people like that. I think there are people who want to be in the club, they want to believe, they want to be what they think a Christian is... but it's not genuine. They aren't truly committed. They haven't really given themselves over to God.

 

[NodMyHeadLikeYeah]

Thank you all for your answers.

 

[NodMyHeadLikeYeah]

Nodsmyheadlikeyeah..........I only dared poke my head into Bible Discussion forum because it was your thread. I have wondered this same thing many times,.........but, I too am now nodding my head like, Yeah.....ok......that's the type of answer I see alot in here. And I am with you......I don't get it at all either!!

Nanabean thank you for braving the bible discussion to respond to my post.. its much appreciated and im glad im not the only one who didnt get it, and doesnt get it!!

 

[NodMyHeadLikeYeah]

It does not sound to me like they are lost, from what you said. I do not see how they are lost. Sounds like they just want to learn more about Jews. You could call God by some of His Jewish names. Alot of people do not believe in the Trinity but they are saved, for example, the United Pentecostal Church or other "Oneness" groups.

They indeed are very lost. I didnt fuly explain their beliefs, and i wont explain them all because im sure you will just argue whatever it is i have to say. Thank you all the same for taking the tome to read my post and give your input.

 

[1still_waters]

I don't know if there is one size fits all answer.

1 John 2:19They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.


They may have left because they weren't of the faith in the first place.

Or maybe they're backsliding and will eventually be brought back to the truth.

 

[zone]

Nod:
i can not speak to the condition of the people in your post.

but:
Hebrews 6:6 matches the parable of the sower.

it is a specific warning against apostasy, particulary a going BACK to, or TO Judaism, FROM Christ.

it's about being so close to have 'seen', 'heard' (the gospel, a christian life, witnessing the blessings of salvation etc) and been near enough to have made a profession; or as in a sampling of; trying out; then veering away and rejecting the message, and Jesus entirely.

it means a complete repudiation of Jesus.

it goes so far as to say that these people have within themselves, in their own hearts, decided Jesus was worthy of death, and would have called for His crucifiction had they been there. they will never be granted true repentence having done so, as this crime is considered worse than those who never knew.

see Paul's warning to the Galatians.

 

[Israel]

Only in the flesh will we have this type of discussion. Is it Yah, is it Jesus? This is confusion! THEY ARE SAVED! They simply found for them a better way for THEM to express their faith. Are they not gathered in agreement? Then Christ is in their midst.

God is a Spirit. No form or shape. So no matter what name one uses to acknowledge a force greater than himself, our spirits call Him by His great name. MERCY!

 

[777Yeshua777]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]I joined ChristianChat.com today. Your post was very interesting to me for a number of reasons, as well as many of the responses.[/FONT]


[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]Let me begin by saying I am a member of the movement your Dad's congregants have joined. (Not specifically, you understand.) But, I am a member of a group of Christians who are moving into a deeper understanding of the Word. We are a “Hebrew roots” church. And, judging by the responses, no one who responded has any idea what that means. Searching around on the site I did find one other Hebrew roots believer.[/FONT]


[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]So, I will take the liberty of explaining a couple of things regarding your Dad's friends. I think this discussion is vital for the Body of Christ at this time in history.[/FONT]


[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]For starters, I went to your page, and noticed that your name was Holly. If I kept calling you Heather you might start getting annoyed. Certainly, being the loving Christian you are, you would forgive me. But, after awhile you might conclude that I am disrespecting you. Why?[/FONT]


[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]It is because I obviously don't care enough about you to even get your name right. Especially, since I keep talking to you and using a name that is not yours.[/FONT]


[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]Our Savior's Name is NOT Jesus.[/FONT]


[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]In fact, the name Jesus is no more than about 300 years old. The 1611 KJV spelled the Greek translation “Iesus.” If I asked you to spell the word “yes” without the letter “y,” you might write it “ies.” The 1611 KJV is trying to emulate “yeh-soos.” Most masculine names in Greek end in an “s.” There is no “J” sound in Hebrew. [/FONT]


[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]For all those reasons and more, “Yeshua” became “Iesus,” then Jesus.[/FONT]


[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]I want to encourage anyone reading this to investigate His Name. It is easy to pronounce, and it is His Name. And, we should use it. Sure, I still say “Jesus” every now and then. People who don't know the Name Yeshua need a reference point.[/FONT]


[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]The Third Commandment says to not take the “name of the Lord thy God in vain.” In Hebrew, that means “changing, or making common,” among other things.[/FONT]


[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]The Father's Name is represented by 4 characters called the “tetragrammaton.” Those characters in Hebrew are yud-hay-vav (or waw) -hey.[/FONT]


[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]The debate goes on whether it is truly Yahweh or Yahovah. I can argue both sides pretty well! LOL[/FONT]


[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]Ancient Hebrew was a pictorial language, like hieroglyphics. The four characters that make the Name of our Father mean, “hand, behold, nail, behold.” Isn't that interesting?[/FONT]


[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]I grew tired of milk. So did your Dad's friends. The meat is the next level.[/FONT]

 

[Israel]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]I joined ChristianChat.com today. Your post was very interesting to me for a number of reasons, as well as many of the responses.[/FONT]


[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]Let me begin by saying I am a member of the movement your Dad's congregants have joined. (Not specifically, you understand.) But, I am a member of a group of Christians who are moving into a deeper understanding of the Word. We are a “Hebrew roots” church. And, judging by the responses, no one who responded has any idea what that means. Searching around on the site I did find one other Hebrew roots believer.[/FONT]


[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]So, I will take the liberty of explaining a couple of things regarding your Dad's friends. I think this discussion is vital for the Body of Christ at this time in history.[/FONT]


[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]For starters, I went to your page, and noticed that your name was Holly. If I kept calling you Heather you might start getting annoyed. Certainly, being the loving Christian you are, you would forgive me. But, after awhile you might conclude that I am disrespecting you. Why?[/FONT]


[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]It is because I obviously don't care enough about you to even get your name right. Especially, since I keep talking to you and using a name that is not yours.[/FONT]


[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]Our Savior's Name is NOT Jesus.[/FONT]


[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]In fact, the name Jesus is no more than about 300 years old. The 1611 KJV spelled the Greek translation “Iesus.” If I asked you to spell the word “yes” without the letter “y,” you might write it “ies.” The 1611 KJV is trying to emulate “yeh-soos.” Most masculine names in Greek end in an “s.” There is no “J” sound in Hebrew. [/FONT]


[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]For all those reasons and more, “Yeshua” became “Iesus,” then Jesus.[/FONT]


[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]I want to encourage anyone reading this to investigate His Name. It is easy to pronounce, and it is His Name. And, we should use it. Sure, I still say “Jesus” every now and then. People who don't know the Name Yeshua need a reference point.[/FONT]


[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]The Third Commandment says to not take the “name of the Lord thy God in vain.” In Hebrew, that means “changing, or making common,” among other things.[/FONT]


[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]The Father's Name is represented by 4 characters called the “tetragrammaton.” Those characters in Hebrew are yud-hay-vav (or waw) -hey.[/FONT]


[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]The debate goes on whether it is truly Yahweh or Yahovah. I can argue both sides pretty well! LOL[/FONT]


[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]Ancient Hebrew was a pictorial language, like hieroglyphics. The four characters that make the Name of our Father mean, “hand, behold, nail, behold.” Isn't that interesting?[/FONT]


[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]I grew tired of milk. So did your Dad's friends. The meat is the next level.[/FONT]

So do you believe that one is not saved because he called Him Jesus?

I hope not. Who made the mouth OR the the tongue used to speak the word? The Spirit will always know the mind.

 

[jimmydiggs]

My dad is the pastor of a church here in my city, there is a couple in his congregation who were very dedicated believers, she led bible studies, was on the worship team...you get the point, her husband was a christian but struggled heavily with an addiction.

Ok so two months ago out of the blue she emails my dad saying she has found out the real name of God and its Yah, and the trinity is man made, she has become part of some kind of hebrew movement or is it israelite movement...something like that... her husband has jumped on board as well.

I was talking to my dad about them tonight, asking if he has heard from them. Anyways we get to talking and he says, i now question if they were even saved, ive heard several other people in the church say the same thing...

So im very curious, why would you question if they were saved. Are the people that fell away from god never really saved in the first place?? This may be a dumb question but i really would like a good solid answer

I'm a Calvinist, and if they don't end up believing again before they die, I must say that they weren't by way of Perseverence of the Saints.


1 Peter 1
23 For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

John 10
My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all[a]; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand.

If you want more verses, let me know.

 

[1still_waters]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]I grew tired of milk. So did your Dad's friends. The meat is the next level.[/FONT]

So true meat comes when you exchange a set of letters for a different set of letters?


To a certain extent this really shouldn't matter. Now obviously we shouldn't refer to Jesus in irreverent terms, but to split hairs over Jesus and Yahweh or whatever, that seems wrong to me. And it's certainly not getting in to the 'meat' to simply call him by a different name.