Question about Church

[crissy17]

Before you find the true church you need what is truth according to the Bible. God's true church may not be one of numbers, Noah's time His church was small and other times as well, today is no different.

Smaller church fellowships are usually unable to offer a wide variety of ministries and programs, while larger ones can support an array of opportunities. However, a small church can provide a more intimate, close-knit environment that a large church may not be able to cultivate as effectively. Becoming relational in the body of Christ often requires more effort in a large church.

 

[Trax]

Then how can anyone be saved?
If the body is the church - Col 1:18

And there is only one body - Eph 4:4-5

And thier is only one faith - Eph 4:4-5

And Chirst is the "savior of the body"(the one body with one faith) -Eph 5:23

Who will be saved?

If their is no true church then it seem the gates of hades did prevail and Christ was wrong - Matt 16:18
And if he is only saving the one church, and that is no longer here we all might as well eat drink and be merry because wrath is coming.

You missunderstand. I said no one group could claim to be "The True Church."
To be the "True Church" means others AREN'T part of the church, because they would
be a false church. I never said there wasn't a true church. That is His church. Jesus
is the Truth. He is the vine, we are the branches. His sheep hear His voice and He knows
His sheep. But for an organization to say, "We are the true church", implies everyone
else is in false doctrine. And Jesus might have some issue with that kind of attitude.
There are organizations that are built on false doctrine, but this isn't the issue here.
There are small congregations, around the world, that aren't part of any denomination,
and people are getting saved and they are part of Jesus church. Those people are just
as devoted to the Lord as anyone in a major denomination. A large denomination can not
claim "True Church", since people are getting saved that don't belong to "that organization."

 

[feedm3]

You missunderstand. I said no one group could claim to be "The True Church."
To be the "True Church" means others AREN'T part of the church, because they would
be a false church. I never said there wasn't a true church. That is His church. Jesus
is the Truth. He is the vine, we are the branches. His sheep hear His voice and He knows
His sheep. But for an organization to say, "We are the true church", implies everyone
else is in false doctrine. And Jesus might have some issue with that kind of attitude.
There are organizations that are built on false doctrine, but this isn't the issue here.
There are small congregations, around the world, that aren't part of any denomination,
and people are getting saved and they are part of Jesus church. Those people are just
as devoted to the Lord as anyone in a major denomination. A large denomination can not
claim "True Church", since people are getting saved that don't belong to "that organization."

Okay, sorry I misunderstood you, and I agree, there are probably many small groups around the world that no one has heard of that are teaching the truth.

 

[SantoSubito]

Yes thats nice how informed you feel you are, but if you want to know what a Baptist believes, ask one. I does not matter to me if you are confident in misidenfying the church I belong to with what you were taught by those who are probraby not church of Chirst.

The origins of the churches of Christ is a primarily historical discussion. I'm well aware of where church of Christ members believe their church came from since I've lived in Oklahoma my whole life and attended a church of Christ congregation every Sunday for almost a year with a girl I used to date. Here everyone knows what Baptists believe even if they aren't one because they often have family that are, and the same goes for the church of Christ here as well.

Well, maybe you just think you know what your talking about. You can challenge me to explain anyting you want, I can show what I believe straight from scripture.
Can you?

Somewhat of a false ultimatum since we don't operate with the same views of scriptural authority. Heck, we don't even operate with the same Bible. Any discussions like this I generally try to avoid since it means if I quote Maccabees someone will surely reply "Well thats not scripture".

well, as far as "dark ages Europe goes, I have no idea why I should compare what I can read, to a what if senerio.

Those who cannot read it or could not read, God will judge fairly because he is just. Yet I will not base my salvation on how someone else could have been hindered from the truth.
"To whom much is given much is required" - Luke 12:48.
and we have been given much (i.e. the ability to pick up a Bible and read it).
It's kinda like asking what if a man was stranded in the desert and wanted to get baptized but had no water, and then died?

Good answer, I asked because one of my high school buddies is a Catholic missionary in a very poor part of Ghana, and the Catholic mission there isn't very far from a church of Christ mission. What he told me was the biggest problem is that the church of Christ missionaries will come and plant a church, stay for a while, and then just leave them to fend for themselves with a native pastor. The problem was they are cut off from a wide network of support and they just can't hack it alone and often this leads to the church failing and the members going back to some form of African shamanism or Islam.

Don't misunderstand me when I relate this story, as I'm in no way happy that the mission failed as this just means fewer Christians. But it underscores the fact that the church of Christ model doesn't work to terribly well in areas like this.

Ask yourself, is the church that Christ build still in existence, or did it die out?
If yes it is still here, would not that same church today practice in word and deed the same as the church we find in the NT?

Of course it is and I belong to it.

And no offense to you, but I really am not trying to convince you of anything at this point, I am just answering you. I can tell who sincerely wants to know about someones belief from one who just seems to like to hear himself talk. Not trying to be rude, but you spend more time trying to educate me on where the church I belong is from, and yet you only have second hand knowledge. Like I said if you want to know what a baptist believes don't ask a Methodist to explain it.

Like I said above the knowledge I have isn't entirely secondhand. The historical knowledge is but I prefer to learn the history of an organization from someone who is objective. That's why when I read books on church history I read secular authors and not Catholic ones.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

The church is the ekklesia in a large sense an assembly or meeting; but in regard to Christians:

d) in a Christian sense
1) an assembly of Christians gathered for worship in a religious meeting
2) a company of Christian, or of those who, hoping for eternal salvation through Jesus Christ, observe their own religious rites, hold their own religious meetings, and manage their own affairs, according to regulations prescribed for the body for order's sake

It is not any one "building" - but the whole body of Christ with Christ at the head.


For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building. 1 Co. 3:9


Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief cornerstone; In whom ye also all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Eph. 2:19-22


In Christ. . . .

 

[feedm3]

The origins of the churches of Christ is a primarily historical discussion. I'm well aware of where church of Christ members believe their church came from since I've lived in Oklahoma my whole life and attended a church of Christ congregation every Sunday for almost a year with a girl I used to date. Here everyone knows what Baptists believe even if they aren't one because they often have family that are, and the same goes for the church of Christ here as well.

From what you have not know about the church of Christ like when you were surprised I did not advocate OSAS, whatever church of Christ you were attending was not doing it's job in teaching. I preach for a living, so I travel alot, I have preached in many congregations of different areas, and none have ever taught osas, that is a basic fundamental teaching of the church of Christ(really the teaching of the bIble) that osas if false. And when you spoke of one that used instruments in worship, while this seems to be getting more and more popular among some of our liberal brethren, the amount of congregation actually doing this is very small, and defiantly not what the majority does.

Somewhat of a false ultimatum since we don't operate with the same views of scriptural authority. Heck, we don't even operate with the same Bible. Any discussions like this I generally try to avoid since it means if I quote Maccabees someone will surely reply "Well that's not scripture".

I struggle with trying to understand the exact role of God in the canonization of scripture, yet if you were to use it with me, I would probably not give much merit to whatever conclusion was drawn from it. Just a curious question: What do you think about the book of Enoch?

Good answer, I asked because one of my high school buddies is a Catholic missionary in a very poor part of Ghana, and the Catholic mission there isn't very far from a church of Christ mission. What he told me was the biggest problem is that the church of Christ missionaries will come and plant a church, stay for a while, and then just leave them to fend for themselves with a native pastor. The problem was they are cut off from a wide network of support and they just can't hack it alone and often this leads to the church failing and the members going back to some form of African shamanism or Islam.

Actually I know a couple of missionaries that work in Ghana and there doing great been there along time. I know some of the story's you are speaking of and that is very sad.
I am sure things like that happen due to lack of funds, people willing to stay or whatever. But that cant reflect the entire mission efforts of the church of Christ, it is an isolated incident you heard about, and there are many isolated incidents we hear about the Catholic church, yet I do not allow them to effect my view on the entire church.

Like I said above the knowledge I have isn't entirely secondhand. The historical knowledge is but I prefer to learn the history of an organization from someone who is objective. That's why when I read books on church history I read secular authors and not Catholic ones.

Yea, that is probably a good idea, but remember there are always two sides to a coin, and you might be surprised what you didn't know.

 

[Laodicea]

God's true church keep the commandments of God
Revelation 12:17
(17) And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Revelation 14:12
(12) Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

God's true church is worldwide
Revelation 14:6
(6) And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

God's true church will be a worldwide church that teach people to keep the 10 commandments

John 14:15
(15) If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Exodus 20:6
(6) And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

 

[feedm3]

God's true church keep the commandments of God
Revelation 12:17
(17) And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Revelation 14:12
(12) Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

God's true church is worldwide
Revelation 14:6
(6) And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

God's true church will be a worldwide church that teach people to keep the 10 commandments

John 14:15
(15) If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Exodus 20:6
(6) And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

The NT testament church were never told to keep the 10 commands, if fact they are explicit;y told to break one of them - Keep the sabbath day - Paul says let no man judge you in food, drinks, or respect of holy day or of the sabbath day - Col 2:13-14. And says this law has been nailed to the His cross.

We are told to keep the commandment of God and Christ - this includes all commandments found with the new testament.

Jesus said if ye love me keep my commands - Jn 14:15, with out keeping his commands we cannot show we love him, and if we only have to keep the 10, then your saying we do not have to love Christ to be the NT church.

You cite Jn 14:15, is Chirst saying to keep only the 10 or all commandments He has given?

 

[Laodicea]

The NT testament church were never told to keep the 10 commands, if fact they are explicit;y told to break one of them - Keep the sabbath day - Paul says let no man judge you in food, drinks, or respect of holy day or of the sabbath day - Col 2:13-14. And says this law has been nailed to the His cross.

We are told to keep the commandment of God and Christ - this includes all commandments found with the new testament.

Jesus said if ye love me keep my commands - Jn 14:15, with out keeping his commands we cannot show we love him, and if we only have to keep the 10, then your saying we do not have to love Christ to be the NT church.

You cite Jn 14:15, is Chirst saying to keep only the 10 or all commandments He has given?

Colossians does not tell us not to keep the sabbath. I posted verses that show God's people will keep the commandments of God.

 

[feedm3]

Colossians does not tell us not to keep the sabbath. I posted verses that show God's people will keep the commandments of God.

Are the thing written in the New Testament commandment from God?

Seriously, if you believe in only keeping the 10 commands, what if I keep the 10 commandments and ignore anything else in the NT that are not covered by the 10?

"let no man judge you....." meainng that law is not binding anymore, otherwise they should let God judge, and I posted the 10 showing it is the same sabbath day" in which men were to do no work, it explicit says so.

But we dont have to go back into all that, if you just will answer the two questions above so I can understand you better.

 

[Laodicea]

Are the thing written in the New Testament commandment from God?

Seriously, if you believe in only keeping the 10 commands, what if I keep the 10 commandments and ignore anything else in the NT that are not covered by the 10?

"let no man judge you....." meainng that law is not binding anymore, otherwise they should let God judge, and I posted the 10 showing it is the same sabbath day" in which men were to do no work, it explicit says so.

But we dont have to go back into all that, if you just will answer the two questions above so I can understand you better.

Whether you like it or not the Bible says this about God's people
Revelation 14:12
(12) Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Deuteronomy 4:2
(2) Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.
Psalms 105:10
(10) And confirmed the same unto Jacob for a law, and to Israel for an everlasting covenant:

 

[feedm3]

Whether you like it or not the Bible says this about God's people
Revelation 14:12
(12) Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Deuteronomy 4:2
(2) Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.
Psalms 105:10
(10) And confirmed the same unto Jacob for a law, and to Israel for an everlasting covenant:

What do you mean if like it or not? I believe these passages, I believe we should keep God's commandments, all of them. I just asked you if we had to obey the rest of scripture we find in the new testament? How come you don't want to answer that?

After you answer my first two questions (if you will) I will explain Psa 105: to you (in which you dont have to agree).

Are the commands of God and commands of the Lord the same?
If not, do we have to obey the commands of the Lord?
What about the things the Apostles commanded?
Why do you avoid these questions, do you not have a position yet concerning this, if so, that's fine, just say so, or even if you just dont know right now, nothing wrong with that, we are all studying and growing.
But just plain ignoring them is questionable.

 

[Laodicea]

What do you mean if like it or not? I believe these passages, I believe we should keep God's commandments, all of them. I just asked you if we had to obey the rest of scripture we find in the new testament? How come you don't want to answer that?

After you answer my first two questions (if you will) I will explain Psa 105: to you (in which you dont have to agree).

Are the commands of God and commands of the Lord the same?
If not, do we have to obey the commands of the Lord?
What about the things the Apostles commanded?
Why do you avoid these questions, do you not have a position yet concerning this, if so, that's fine, just say so, or even if you just dont know right now, nothing wrong with that, we are all studying and growing.
But just plain ignoring them is questionable.

Of course we have to obey the commandments of God which are commandments of the Lord.
1 John 2:1
(1) My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
Romans 6:16
(16) Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

 

[cookie39]

You can be skeptical all you want, it's something you either accept or reject. That's the belief of me and the other 1.4 billion Catholics in the world.

That is 1.4 billion people who will be busting Hell wide open if they don't stop the false doctrine, and Idolatry..... The True Church is not a group of people who follow behind man... but follow the Holy Spirit of the one true God...... The True Church... IS THE BODY OF CHRIST!! those who follow and believe in Jesus Christ and the God who sent him.... and EVERY WORD THAT THE LORD SAID AND YET SAY... if there be any one come preaching any other gospel the bible said let them be cursed!! Many are called only a few are chosen... because there will only be a few who seek God and the truth of his Word..... True REVELATION,

even satan call his building and followers "" church"" it saddens me how so many people are being led bu blind guides when they are so blind themselves......

God is looking for those who are willing to enter into a covenant of peace through the testament of the Blood that His one and only Son shed.... The church "Body of Christ" is those who have made their peace with God and now through Faith will trust in all he has promised... promises of deliverance from worldly lust and desires, and given the heart to walk in the righteousness of God in which he intended for all man to do from the beginning .... and what he has started here on earth He will finish throughout all eternity..... but as the Lord said in John 15.... if you bare no fruit... My Father will Cut you off!! and for those who bare fruit ( by the power of submitted hearts and the Holy Ghost) He will purge that they will bare more fruit. Those who want to believe a lie.... God said he will send them Strong delusions that they may continue to believe a lie... ( they will die in their sins and the eternal lake of fire will be their final destination). So for those who seek the leading of man and never go to God for the truth that as he said he will teach you..... as he did with Paul, and Paul told Timothy.... you need not for man to teach you... and Paul said that NO man taught him nothing but he received REVELATIONS from JESUS CHRIST................ Try it, I have and there is no limit to the knowledge that God himself will give you about HIMSELF!! Catholics and those who have familiar doctrine or any doctrine that is of man.... are in true danger of hell's fire. seek God and "HIS" kingdom and all IT"S righteousness..... not man's interpretations of what they think God is or has said.

 

[feedm3]

Of course we have to obey the commandments of God which are commandments of the Lord.
1 John 2:1
(1) My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
Romans 6:16
(16) Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Okay well that helps me understand you alot better. Some on here do teach that if we live by the 10 the rest we are saved and the rest does not matter. Thanks for answering.

 

[feedm3]

Okay well that helps me understand you alot better. Some on here do teach that if we live by the 10 the rest we are saved and the rest does not matter. Thanks for answering.

so why are the 10 commandments refered to as "the ministration of death", and a "glory that has been done away with" if they are still binding?


2Co 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
2Co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: - and this is confirmed by Col 2:14.

if the sabbath is still binding is the punishment for breaking the sabbath still binding, if not why not?
Num 15:32 And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.
Num 15:33 And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.
Num 15:34 And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.
Num 15:35 And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.

 

[SantoSubito]

From what you have not know about the church of Christ like when you were surprised I did not advocate OSAS, whatever church of Christ you were attending was not doing it's job in teaching. I preach for a living, so I travel alot, I have preached in many congregations of different areas, and none have ever taught osas, that is a basic fundamental teaching of the church of Christ(really the teaching of the bIble) that osas if false. And when you spoke of one that used instruments in worship, while this seems to be getting more and more popular among some of our liberal brethren, the amount of congregation actually doing this is very small, and defiantly not what the majority does.

I don't recall being surprised you didn't advocate OSAS, I believe your speaking about me being somewhat surprised about your faith and works view. As for no instruments I find that particular practice to be somewhat unfounded, and quite a few of the CoC folks I've met agree with me on that. Me being a Catholic it comes as off as unusually weird since we have a long tradition of sacred music from such names as Mozart, Bach, and Beethoven.

I struggle with trying to understand the exact role of God in the canonization of scripture, yet if you were to use it with me, I would probably not give much merit to whatever conclusion was drawn from it. Just a curious question: What do you think about the book of Enoch?

The book of Enoch is certainly one of the more interesting and exciting reads among Jewish apocalyptic literature. But it has never been included in the canon except by the Ethiopian Orthodox.

Actually I know a couple of missionaries that work in Ghana and there doing great been there along time. I know some of the story's you are speaking of and that is very sad.
I am sure things like that happen due to lack of funds, people willing to stay or whatever. But that cant reflect the entire mission efforts of the church of Christ, it is an isolated incident you heard about, and there are many isolated incidents we hear about the Catholic church, yet I do not allow them to effect my view on the entire church.

Really I think the bigger issue was it's often individual congregations supporting these missions, which means the missions can be forgotten and abandoned if the congregation runs into financial troubles. Catholic missions are often ran by an order of monks or nuns or by a whole diocese (so they're supported by hundreds of individual parishes) and as a result we don't really run into these problems. But the point was to show that the congregational model has it's drawbacks in situations such as this, and not that its completely unworkable. For me that's the beauty of an episcopal polity, we don't have to do it on our own and if our parish struggles other parishes help us and vice versa.

But the biggest thing that gets under my skin and sometimes causes me to color all Protestants the same is that even though we've pretty much gotten over the historical animosity a lot of Protestants can't even accept us as Christian. Here at least in small towns the CoC heavily contributes to this anti-Catholicism, which makes no sense to me. Its all just really annoying when you spend your whole life having people try to convert you when its not like the Baptists are trying convert the Methodists.

I apologize if you thought that I was trying to color all the CoC missions the same.

 

[SantoSubito]

That is 1.4 billion people who will be busting Hell wide open if they don't stop the false doctrine, and Idolatry..... The True Church is not a group of people who follow behind man... but follow the Holy Spirit of the one true God...... The True Church... IS THE BODY OF CHRIST!! those who follow and believe in Jesus Christ and the God who sent him.... and EVERY WORD THAT THE LORD SAID AND YET SAY... if there be any one come preaching any other gospel the bible said let them be cursed!! Many are called only a few are chosen... because there will only be a few who seek God and the truth of his Word..... True REVELATION,

even satan call his building and followers "" church"" it saddens me how so many people are being led bu blind guides when they are so blind themselves......

God is looking for those who are willing to enter into a covenant of peace through the testament of the Blood that His one and only Son shed.... The church "Body of Christ" is those who have made their peace with God and now through Faith will trust in all he has promised... promises of deliverance from worldly lust and desires, and given the heart to walk in the righteousness of God in which he intended for all man to do from the beginning .... and what he has started here on earth He will finish throughout all eternity..... but as the Lord said in John 15.... if you bare no fruit... My Father will Cut you off!! and for those who bare fruit ( by the power of submitted hearts and the Holy Ghost) He will purge that they will bare more fruit. Those who want to believe a lie.... God said he will send them Strong delusions that they may continue to believe a lie... ( they will die in their sins and the eternal lake of fire will be their final destination). So for those who seek the leading of man and never go to God for the truth that as he said he will teach you..... as he did with Paul, and Paul told Timothy.... you need not for man to teach you... and Paul said that NO man taught him nothing but he received REVELATIONS from JESUS CHRIST................ Try it, I have and there is no limit to the knowledge that God himself will give you about HIMSELF!! Catholics and those who have familiar doctrine or any doctrine that is of man.... are in true danger of hell's fire. seek God and "HIS" kingdom and all IT"S righteousness..... not man's interpretations of what they think God is or has said.

Case in point.

 

[feedm3]

I don't recall being surprised you didn't advocate OSAS, I believe your speaking about me being somewhat surprised about your faith and works view. As for no instruments I find that particular practice to be somewhat unfounded, and quite a few of the CoC folks I've met agree with me on that. Me being a Catholic it comes as off as unusually weird since we have a long tradition of sacred music from such names as Mozart, Bach, and Beethoven.

Yea sorry, thats what it was, works view, which still is basic teaching.

The book of Enoch is certainly one of the more interesting and exciting reads among Jewish apocalyptic literature. But it has never been included in the canon except by the Ethiopian Orthodox.

Yea thats why I asked, I just started reading it recently, and you well described it. it is vey fascinating.

Really I think the bigger issue was it's often individual congregations supporting these missions, which means the missions can be forgotten and abandoned if the congregation runs into financial troubles. Catholic missions are often ran by an order of monks or nuns or by a whole diocese (so they're supported by hundreds of individual parishes) and as a result we don't really run into these problems. But the point was to show that the congregational model has it's drawbacks in situations such as this, and not that its completely unworkable. For me that's the beauty of an episcopal polity, we don't have to do it on our own and if our parish struggles other parishes help us and vice versa.

Most Church of Christ mission works have a mission committee that oversees the work, and handles all the support from contributing congregations.

But the biggest thing that gets under my skin and sometimes causes me to color all Protestants the same is that even though we've pretty much gotten over the historical animosity a lot of Protestants can't even accept us as Christian. Here at least in small towns the CoC heavily contributes to this anti-Catholicism, which makes no sense to me. Its all just really annoying when you spend your whole life having people try to convert you when its not like the Baptists are trying convert the Methodists.

Yea i guess that would annoy as much as the JW's constantly at my door. But no matter what a persons faith may be, if we are disscussing the Bible, I will try to persuade them to convert, or at least hear me out and compare what they believe with what I believe, and then compare it to scripture. with a few simple questions, sometimes you can get people off the "thats your interpretation" attitude. If they tell me or show they have no interest, I will not continue unless asked. I also have friends in different faiths, mostly we give each other hard times about what we believe, but always in joking manner.

I apologize if you thought that I was trying to color all the CoC missions the same.

No problem, I just misunderstood you.

 

[SantoSubito]

Yea sorry, thats what it was, works view, which still is basic teaching.

Perhaps, but in the 50+ CoC sermons I heard I don't recall hearing much about it. But then again the preacher was rather long winded and my patience started to run out after we had passed the 45 minute mark in the sermon.

Yea thats why I asked, I just started reading it recently, and you well described it. it is vey fascinating.

I read it a while ago, but I can certainly see how it wasn't considered since we know it wasn't written by Enoch.

Most Church of Christ mission works have a mission committee that oversees the work, and handles all the support from contributing congregations.

In that case I don't know how it would have flopped unless some of the member congregations withdrew their support.

Yea i guess that would annoy as much as the JW's constantly at my door. But no matter what a persons faith may be, if we are disscussing the Bible, I will try to persuade them to convert, or at least hear me out and compare what they believe with what I believe, and then compare it to scripture. with a few simple questions, sometimes you can get people off the "thats your interpretation" attitude. If they tell me or show they have no interest, I will not continue unless asked. I also have friends in different faiths, mostly we give each other hard times about what we believe, but always in joking manner.

It's also something of a inherited mentality, which is why Catholics will primarily marry Catholics for example. But where most non-Catholics fail in trying to speak to Catholics is in not taking into account how Catholics think. We aren't to terribly impressed if you can show us what you believe from the Bible, since we can as well and so can everyone else. What we're concerned with is where does your view show up in history and is it part of the Tradition which we've had handed down to us. All of that just leads to further the frustration since in these conversations we're operating on two entirely different wavelengths.