Question about Jesus being the Son of God

[kaylagrl]

She might also take the time to see that she has liked more than a few of my previous posts in this forum.

Lol did I,must have been my ghost.

 

[Hazelelponi]

ok...thanks for answering...it's the BDF after all

you know, I have been saved so long somtimes I wish I could start over because I have far from always exemplified my Savior

I wish you would hear me. he is not doing what you have somehow come to understand about him

I have a different point of view here because I grew up with many Jewish people around me and also attended a Messianic congregation and this is how Jewish people often perceive Christians

Jews have been accused of killing Christ and Gentiles have in some way tried to exonerate themselves when the Bible clearly states that EVERYONE is as universally guilty of sin as the worst sinner...see the 10 commandments

you might get angry at me with this next statement, but is this really a matter of you somehow being accused of being wrong?

I don't think it is. you are simply being defensive but really it is not accomplishing anything when someone simply is trying to be understood

again, I do wish you would see this as not a personal insult or attack but rather as an attempt at clarification

when I was younger, I could certainly get worked up and emotional about thinking people were attacking Christ or Christianity

but alot of experience has shown me otherwise. there are people who come here just to mock or argue and they often go as quick as they come in

please try. thanks

As to what this is about yes, it is about me being accused of being the cause of him hating Christians or being causal to him not wanting to associate himself with a word that means Follower of Christ.

I don't care what his race is, he's the one who addressed me, all I ever did was try to have a discussion as if he was a rational intelligent human being, and ask clarification so that we could avoid misconceptions when I felt like that may be helpful..

If he can't have a simple discussion with me without feeling the need to disassociate himself from any association with Christianity (really?) there is either a SERIOUS problem with either myself or him.. or us two together.

Period.

It's quite simple.

Thank you for your concern as to how upset this must have made me.

 

[kaylagrl]

When you say He you mean the person, fleshly man of Jesus Christ? The one born of a virgin, who lived as a Jew, and was seen as the King of the Jews?


Yes, I mean He, Jesus, who I believe, according to the Bible, was both God and man.


His body existed before his birth? We are talking about a person, right? Not a spirit god? This person existed before his birth? I wonder if you can see from the outside how the trinity doctrine has effected your rationality.

I believe He, (Jesus) took the form of man, but I do not believe He was created. I do believe in the trinity. Jesus called Himself "I AM" you know the verse in the OT which Jesus quotes in the NT. "Before Abraham was, I Am."


His body existed before his birth? His body was with God in the beginning? When God said let us make man, and created Adam, he also created a body for Jesus? Because hey, he didn't just pop on the scene, and this is what the trinity teaches about personage of the son.

Christians believe Jesus became flesh, He wasn't created, He has always existed. He was incarnated.

Incarnation- a person who embodies in the flesh a deity, spirit, or abstract quality


Yes, he is more than his body, for sure. But it's a package you know. In order to accomplish what he was to do he had to 'become like us' in every way. Except he was without sin. He did not die because of sin. He laid his life down. For a specific purpose.

We agree that Jesus was divine? Jesus was the only perfectly sinless man to walk this earth. Divine beings are not created.


He was the Son of Man as much as he was the Son of God.

Yes, we agree He was both God and man.


<here is where I start talking in general, not to anyone specific...

See, this last statement to me shows that I agree with those who are misunderstanding me here. He is the Son of God, The Spirit of God in the flesh. All authority is given to him. I AGREE, without using the trinity if that's o.k., it's not in the bible anyway. It's a formulated doctrine of the early church. But that's o.k too... just don't use it against others.

Well we disagree there. I believe in the trinity and I believe it is in the Bible. So if we don't agree there we can't really agree on this subject.

Why do so many Christians here desire to argue this with me? The only reason I can perceive is the church doctrines you have been taught and believe. Like the trinity. It's just fine for you to formulate your own understanding of how God looks and operates. We are all on our own walk with the creator. But what is happening here is many are not allowing me to express my perspective without correcting me because I do not hold their view.
You want us on the same page, as long as it's your page. You want us on the same tree but you refuse to acknowledge the uniqueness of the branches. I think wild olives are awesome, especially when they are tapped into the native tree. The fruit a grafted in branch produces is complementary to the natural fruits, not opposed. It doesn't overpower or seek to remove the other branches.

I respect the branches, but I cannot go against what the Word says. I don't seek to remove the branches. It's not about being on my page,but what the Word says.



Sadly, this was the mindset of the early church in regards to Jews. But what happens when the times of the gentiles come to an end? A Jewish revival that's what. So if there was a message I want to convey it's that Christians need to embrace Israel instead of reject and replace her. When you do this you not only will see the redemption of Israel, you will see your own redemption as well. The Jews will only come to Messiah when you woo them to Him. And when you do, all the world will see the salvation of God.

Totally agree with you there.

See, I don't seek to find divisions between us, because these are what the enemy has woven into our relationships for 2000 yrs. I know through the Spirit and the word of God that our reconciliations are mutual. We are tied together in this. Christians will not see Messiah again until Israel falls in love with Yeshua. Think about it. According to scripture. The restoration of Israel is directly tied to the second coming of our Messiah. And the enemy has convinced many souls to fight against this, in the name of Jesus even.

I agree, and it's a great pity. I often speak on this subject here and not treated kindly in doing so.

There, my heart is bare. If there is a motive for my speaking it is this. My hearts desire. I want to see the world, Jew and Gentile reconciled to God. And I believe the enemy has woven lies within the church the same way he used the law against us Jews.

Don't worry brother, God's will is going to be done. Read the back of the Book, we win!!

Wow, when I first asked a question about the understanding of the Son of God I never thought it would turn here. Yet, God is good. This wasn't supposed to be about 'me'. But I guess i'm the odd one out here, as usual. a Jew in a Christian forum... Just thought we could share our commonalities as much as our differences. Hey! there's a novel idea!

Hey there's a butt load of people here I disagree with, but we're still friends. I'm Pentecostal, that's as bad as being a Jew in a Christian forum!! I even believe in tongues!! One old guy blocked me I incensed him so much. rofl Water off a ducks back. Hang in there, we'll find things to agree on. Even a couple of the OSAS people love me ( they just can't admit it)

(if anyone would like to answer or respond to any of my questions above, please do so with the intent of coming along side me instead of correction. It will serve a much better purpose than righteous indignation, as I've been told)

 

[7seasrekeyed]

She might also take the time to see that she has liked more than a few of my previous posts in this forum.

ok...LOL!

 

[7seasrekeyed]

As to what this is about yes, it is about me being accused of being the cause of him hating Christians or being causal to him not wanting to associate himself with a word that means Follower of Christ.

I don't care what his race is, he's the one who addressed me, all I ever did was try to have a discussion as if he was a rational intelligent human being, and ask clarification so that we could avoid misconceptions when I felt like that may be helpful..

If he can't have a simple discussion with me without feeling the need to disassociate himself from any association with Christianity (really?) there is either a SERIOUS problem with either myself or him.. or us two together.

Period.

It's quite simple.

Thank you for your concern as to how upset this must have made me.

ok

 

[7seasrekeyed]

When you say He you mean the person, fleshly man of Jesus Christ? The one born of a virgin, who lived as a Jew, and was seen as the King of the Jews?

His body existed before his birth? We are talking about a person, right? Not a spirit god? This person existed before his birth? I wonder if you can see from the outside how the trinity doctrine has effected your rationality.

His body existed before his birth? His body was with God in the beginning? When God said let us make man, and created Adam, he also created a body for Jesus? Because hey, he didn't just pop on the scene, and this is what the trinity teaches about personage of the son.

Yes, he is more than his body, for sure. But it's a package you know. In order to accomplish what he was to do he had to 'become like us' in every way. Except he was without sin. He did not die because of sin. He laid his life down. For a specific purpose.

He was the Son of Man as much as he was the Son of God.

<here is where I start talking in general, not to anyone specific...

See, this last statement to me shows that I agree with those who are misunderstanding me here. He is the Son of God, The Spirit of God in the flesh. All authority is given to him. I AGREE, without using the trinity if that's o.k., it's not in the bible anyway. It's a formulated doctrine of the early church. But that's o.k too... just don't use it against others.

Why do so many Christians here desire to argue this with me? The only reason I can perceive is the church doctrines you have been taught and believe. Like the trinity. It's just fine for you to formulate your own understanding of how God looks and operates. We are all on our own walk with the creator. But what is happening here is many are not allowing me to express my perspective without correcting me because I do not hold their view. You want us on the same page, as long as it's your page. You want us on the same tree but you refuse to acknowledge the uniqueness of the branches. I think wild olives are awesome, especially when they are tapped into the native tree. The fruit a grafted in branch produces is complementary to the natural fruits, not opposed. It doesn't overpower or seek to remove the other branches. Sadly, this was the mindset of the early church in regards to Jews. But what happens when the times of the gentiles come to an end? A Jewish revival that's what. So if there was a message I want to convey it's that Christians need to embrace Israel instead of reject and replace her. When you do this you not only will see the redemption of Israel, you will see your own redemption as well. The Jews will only come to Messiah when you woo them to Him. And when you do, all the world will see the salvation of God.

See, I don't seek to find divisions between us, because these are what the enemy has woven into our relationships for 2000 yrs. I know through the Spirit and the word of God that our reconciliations are mutual. We are tied together in this. Christians will not see Messiah again until Israel falls in love with Yeshua. Think about it. According to scripture. The restoration of Israel is directly tied to the second coming of our Messiah. And the enemy has convinced many souls to fight against this, in the name of Jesus even.

There, my heart is bare. If there is a motive for my speaking it is this. My hearts desire. I want to see the world, Jew and Gentile reconciled to God. And I believe the enemy has woven lies within the church the same way he used the law against us Jews.

Wow, when I first asked a question about the understanding of the Son of God I never thought it would turn here. Yet, God is good. This wasn't supposed to be about 'me'. But I guess i'm the odd one out here, as usual. a Jew in a Christian forum... Just thought we could share our commonalities as much as our differences. Hey! there's a novel idea!

(if anyone would like to answer or respond to any of my questions above, please do so with the intent of coming along side me instead of correction. It will serve a much better purpose than righteous indignation, as I've been told)

I really would like to respond here, but out of time tonight. tomorrow

 

[garee]

As long as Christianity declares that being Jewish means nothing, it will continue to misrepresent the Messiah it claims to. I have come to believe that unless you understand Israel's redemption you will never grasp the details of your own.' The bible, the word, the promise, the Spirit all lead to the redemption of Israel, and the nations of the world. This is my perspective. And my perspective of the church as exemplified through her followers words and actions is the Spirit leads to the redemption of the church, and the rest, especially those apostate Jews are damned. To be cast away like sin. This is my perspective of the church. Care to change it? I'm truly praying for reconciliation.

I would say not change it but look to what you are offering....

God declared Christianity to be the new name he purposely named his bride the church. Previously called her Israel .A word that denotes a new creature. (God with us)

He named his bride the new born again creatures, Christian, after the first century reformation.. .as a sign of Joel . Restoring the government of God to a previous time period . .which most Jews simply dismiss . . . because they are hoping their Jewish flesh could for something. . . anything.. . They are the ones as disciples of Christ who followed until he said straight up . . . . .My corrupted flesh profits for nothing. zero. The work is spiritual (unseen).

What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.John 6: 63-68


Peter who was given the faith to believe (not of his own self) said to whom shall we go. . ./ you have the words of eternal life not flesh of eternal life...no such thing. God is not a man as us.. . . never could be...

Study the effects the gospel had on those kind of Jews (faithless) born of the flesh and hope the gospel will give them a desire to follow Christ and not walk away in unbelief as in John 6 as born of the Spirit.

Jesus was very ofensive to those who walked by sight after the temporal flesh.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

When you say He you mean the person, fleshly man of Jesus Christ? The one born of a virgin, who lived as a Jew, and was seen as the King of the Jews?

His body existed before his birth? We are talking about a person, right? Not a spirit god? This person existed before his birth? I wonder if you can see from the outside how the trinity doctrine has effected your rationality.

His body existed before his birth? His body was with God in the beginning? When God said let us make man, and created Adam, he also created a body for Jesus? Because hey, he didn't just pop on the scene, and this is what the trinity teaches about personage of the son.

Yes, he is more than his body, for sure. But it's a package you know. In order to accomplish what he was to do he had to 'become like us' in every way. Except he was without sin. He did not die because of sin. He laid his life down. For a specific purpose.

He was the Son of Man as much as he was the Son of God.

<here is where I start talking in general, not to anyone specific...

See, this last statement to me shows that I agree with those who are misunderstanding me here. He is the Son of God, The Spirit of God in the flesh. All authority is given to him. I AGREE, without using the trinity if that's o.k., it's not in the bible anyway. It's a formulated doctrine of the early church. But that's o.k too... just don't use it against others.

Why do so many Christians here desire to argue this with me? The only reason I can perceive is the church doctrines you have been taught and believe. Like the trinity. It's just fine for you to formulate your own understanding of how God looks and operates. We are all on our own walk with the creator. But what is happening here is many are not allowing me to express my perspective without correcting me because I do not hold their view. You want us on the same page, as long as it's your page. You want us on the same tree but you refuse to acknowledge the uniqueness of the branches. I think wild olives are awesome, especially when they are tapped into the native tree. The fruit a grafted in branch produces is complementary to the natural fruits, not opposed. It doesn't overpower or seek to remove the other branches. Sadly, this was the mindset of the early church in regards to Jews. But what happens when the times of the gentiles come to an end? A Jewish revival that's what. So if there was a message I want to convey it's that Christians need to embrace Israel instead of reject and replace her. When you do this you not only will see the redemption of Israel, you will see your own redemption as well. The Jews will only come to Messiah when you woo them to Him. And when you do, all the world will see the salvation of God.

See, I don't seek to find divisions between us, because these are what the enemy has woven into our relationships for 2000 yrs. I know through the Spirit and the word of God that our reconciliations are mutual. We are tied together in this. Christians will not see Messiah again until Israel falls in love with Yeshua. Think about it. According to scripture. The restoration of Israel is directly tied to the second coming of our Messiah. And the enemy has convinced many souls to fight against this, in the name of Jesus even.

There, my heart is bare. If there is a motive for my speaking it is this. My hearts desire. I want to see the world, Jew and Gentile reconciled to God. And I believe the enemy has woven lies within the church the same way he used the law against us Jews.

Wow, when I first asked a question about the understanding of the Son of God I never thought it would turn here. Yet, God is good. This wasn't supposed to be about 'me'. But I guess i'm the odd one out here, as usual. a Jew in a Christian forum... Just thought we could share our commonalities as much as our differences. Hey! there's a novel idea!

(if anyone would like to answer or respond to any of my questions above, please do so with the intent of coming along side me instead of correction. It will serve a much better purpose than righteous indignation, as I've been told)

as I said previously, Christians have obvious disagreements with each other but they seem to come together when feeling threatened

I don't really see this as about you so much as revealing the prejudices and pre-programmed views that so many espouse

if they would allow it, maybe it could be somewhat of a wakeup call.

I honestly think some fear that somehow their beliefs may be proven false and they react that way