Question for christians from non-believer

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M

md22chez

Guest
#1
#1
Was Christ the end of the Old Testament law? "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished." -Christ, Matthew 5:17-18.
 
M

md22chez

Guest
#2
#2
The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.
 
A

AfterGodsheart

Guest
#3
#3
md22chez said:
The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.
Click to expand...
which Old Testament did you read because these adjectives do NOT describe the God of the Old Testament I know... the Jehovah Jireh, El-Shaddai, The I AM? Please re-visit the real bible
 
M

MaggieMye

Guest
#4
#4
The God of the Bible...the CREATOR...the One that created YOU because He loves you and has a plan for your life, is the same forever and for always...He changes not. You need to understand, that like any Parent, discipline is necessary in order for a child to grow into a Positive Contributing Adult. When God allowed...ALLOWED bad things to happen to His children, it was because THEY MADE CHOICES that FORCED Him to let them have their own way....which is to say that when they CHOOSE to do things their own way, He removed the protection they were afforded when they obeyed His word and mandates. With that protection removed..because of their rebellion against Him...they became, just like we do today, PRIME TARGET FOR THE DEVIL. And because Satan is an opportunist and misses no opportunity to kill, steal and destroy....well...they got what they asked for by CHOOSING their own way instead of His.

That's His Character...in a nutshell. He LOVES us, but won't force us to comply. When we choose other than His way, He simply stands back, removes the protection one has when one is in obedience and then allows the devil to do what every he wants...including killing a person before he/she can enter into the Kingdom of God through Christ Jesus.

If you had even a slight understanding of the dynamics and designs that the devil has in place on this planet....all for the purposes of killing humans who are made in His image, you would RUN and fall on your knees and confess that you need Him and accept the sacrifice of His son as payment for your rebellion/sin.
Salvation is a GIFT, given by the Father, through His Son, Jesus...and Jesus went willingly for YOU so that you could spend a glorious eternity in the presence of the One that loves you like no other.
Maggie
 
T

Tintin

Guest
#5
#5
I'm sorry, OP, I think you just described the attributes of all of the pagan gods, not the Christian God.
 
M

md22chez

Guest
#6
#6
I have a problem with the god of the old testament of the christian bible.
So what does the Bible tell us?
Who should we kill? ?
- Homosexuals (Lev.20:13, Rom.1:26-32)
- Adulterers (Lev.20:10, Deut.22:22)
- Disobedient children (Deut.21:20-21, Lev.20:9, Exod.21:15)
- Women who are not virgins on their wedding night (Deut.22:13-21)
- All non-Christians (parable told by Christ - Luke.19:27)
- Those accused of wickedness by at least two people (Deut.17:2-7)
- Anyone who works on the Sabbath (Exod.35:2-3, Num.15:32-6)
(not even to kindle a fire, and no exclusion for ambulance drivers)
Women
- It is shameful for a woman to speak in church (1Cor.14:34-5)
- A man must OK his wife´s words if they are to have force (Num.30:8)
- A woman must not teach or hold authority over a man (1Tim.2:12)
- Lot saves the messengers from the men of Sodom by offering up
his virgin daughters to ´do to them as you please´ (Gen.19:8)
- Kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourself
every girl who has never slept with a man (Moses - Num.31:17-8)
Slavery
- God supports slavery (Lev.25:44-6, Exod.21:2-8, Eph.6:5, Col.3:22)
- Instructions on how to sell your daughter as a slave (Exod.21:7-8)
- When to give your slaves severe or light beatings (Luke.12:42-8)
- OK to beat slaves only if they don´t die within 2 days (Exod.21:20-1)
- How to mark your slave: drive an awl through its ear (Deut.15:17)
Marriage
- It´s best if all people remain unmarried. Marriage is a lesser-of-two-
evils compromise for Christians too weak to resist their sexual urges,
for it is better to marry than to burn. (Paul - 1Cor.7:1-2, 8-9, 25-6, 38)
- The rapist of an unwed woman must buy her and make her his wife
(apparently a far more 'holy' union than a genuine, loving same-sex relationship) - Deut.22:28-9
Justice
- If a man suspects his wife of cheating he can serve her a cursed drink;
if she becomes deformed, then that proves her guilt (Num.5:12-31)
- 42 children killed by bears for calling a prophet baldy (2King.2:23-24)
- OK to beat your children with a rod - it wont kill them (Prov.23:13-4)

 
M

md22chez

Guest
#7
#7
I really wish someone would answer my orignal question. I was a born-again christian for years until I could no longer ignore certain things. I've always tried to search for the truth. I would like to know if Jesus got rid of the old Testament laws (in the passage above, it says he did not). Many Christians try to justify Old Testament laws by saying "that was for a different time period, those laws no longer apply since Jesus came to save us". In the passage above, it clearly states that every jot and dot still applies until Earth no longer exists.
 
T

Trax

Guest
#8
#8
md22chez said:
The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.
Click to expand...
The God of the OT is the same God in the NT. Thinking up excusess to reject Jesus, who is Lord, God
in the flesh, wont get your case dismissed on judgement day. If you believe all that you posted, then
you believe Jesus can do to you whatever He pleases and there is nothing you can do about it.
But here is what He did do for you. He went to the cross and offered Himself up, to pay for your
sins, so you wouldn't go to hell. You speak such things about Him, all the while He is giving you
your next breath and your next heart beat. He knows what is really going on with you. He offers
mercy and forgiveness and can save you from what has gotten a hold of you. But the offer isn't for
eternity, but for the duration of your life. If you chose to remain as you are, you will have to face
judgement one day, by the God whom you give your opinion of above.
 
9

99caravan

Guest
#9
#9
MD22CHEZ,
It is important to understand that the Bible covers thousands of years of history. Many of these things about who to kill, why, and when are based on the context that they were written in. The other thing is that we don't have the infinite wisdom of God, so we don't know why things happened the way they happened. the 42 Children killed by bears... perhaps the children's parents were monsters and were abusing and molesting them... that is usually the only time when God takes them away, but we will never know this side of eternity. The rod was the same as a belt is used these days. In some cases, depending on the child, I agree... spanking is a necessary discipline... for other Children, some time in their room is a better disciplinary action. It seems like you googled the best ways to stump my Christian friend :) I could go through all of them, but if you are looking for a reason not to believe in God, then you will surely find one.
 
M

md22chez

Guest
#10
#10
You threatening me with eternal hellfire is like someone threatening you in saying that Santa will not come if you're bad. I dont buy it because none of it makes sense. When you are closed-minded, as I was for a long time, you ignore the facts and all the contradictions in the bible. If there is a god, I'm sure he would be pleased with someone who used reason (if there is a god, he blessed us with reason and one may assume he would like to see us use it) instead of blindly following a man-made book.
 
J

jimmydiggs

Guest
#11
#11
md22chez said:
The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.
Click to expand...
I think you should at least give Dawkins credit before you lift right off of the pages of the God Delusion.
 
9

99caravan

Guest
#12
#12
md22chez,

Yes, Christ was the end of the old testament sacrifical system for atonement of sin. A.K.A Old Testament ( old covenant, old promise) New Testament ( new covenant, new promise). Old Testament: Periodically as well as when you committed sin, sacrifice animals to get pardon from God, under the new Testament, believe in Christ and his one time and for all sacrifice by his death on the cross covers all your sins.
 
J

jimmydiggs

Guest
#13
#13
md22chez said:
I have a problem with the god of the old testament of the christian bible.
So what does the Bible tell us?
Who should we kill? ?
- Homosexuals (Lev.20:13, Rom.1:26-32)
- Adulterers (Lev.20:10, Deut.22:22)
- Disobedient children (Deut.21:20-21, Lev.20:9, Exod.21:15)
- Women who are not virgins on their wedding night (Deut.22:13-21)
- All non-Christians (parable told by Christ - Luke.19:27)
- Those accused of wickedness by at least two people (Deut.17:2-7)
- Anyone who works on the Sabbath (Exod.35:2-3, Num.15:32-6)
(not even to kindle a fire, and no exclusion for ambulance drivers)
Women
- It is shameful for a woman to speak in church (1Cor.14:34-5)
- A man must OK his wife´s words if they are to have force (Num.30:8)
- A woman must not teach or hold authority over a man (1Tim.2:12)
- Lot saves the messengers from the men of Sodom by offering up
his virgin daughters to ´do to them as you please´ (Gen.19:8)
- Kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourself
every girl who has never slept with a man (Moses - Num.31:17-8)
Slavery
- God supports slavery (Lev.25:44-6, Exod.21:2-8, Eph.6:5, Col.3:22)
- Instructions on how to sell your daughter as a slave (Exod.21:7-8)
- When to give your slaves severe or light beatings (Luke.12:42-8)
- OK to beat slaves only if they don´t die within 2 days (Exod.21:20-1)
- How to mark your slave: drive an awl through its ear (Deut.15:17)
Marriage
- It´s best if all people remain unmarried. Marriage is a lesser-of-two-
evils compromise for Christians too weak to resist their sexual urges,
for it is better to marry than to burn. (Paul - 1Cor.7:1-2, 8-9, 25-6, 38)
- The rapist of an unwed woman must buy her and make her his wife
(apparently a far more 'holy' union than a genuine, loving same-sex relationship) - Deut.22:28-9
Justice
- If a man suspects his wife of cheating he can serve her a cursed drink;
if she becomes deformed, then that proves her guilt (Num.5:12-31)
- 42 children killed by bears for calling a prophet baldy (2King.2:23-24)
- OK to beat your children with a rod - it wont kill them (Prov.23:13-4)
Click to expand...
Is this your website?

Quoth the Rodent Queen, "Squeak." - So what does the Bible tell us? - So what does the Bible tell us? <--- click
 
9

99caravan

Guest
#14
#14
When Jesus said that he came not to destroy the law but fulfill it, what he was referring to was the impending and often mentioned promise that God would eventually send or provide a new system of atonement of sin. i.e. the Messianic prophecies of Isaiah, and some of the other prophets. All of the jews were waiting for a coming messiah which would put away once and for all the sacrificial system of atonement.
 
M

md22chez

Guest
#15
#15
On the contrary; I didnt start out by looking for reasons to not believe in god, I was looking for the truth. It is never okay to kill children, homosexuals, women who are not virgins on their wedding night. I also dont think it is every okay to promote slavery. And serving a cursed drink to a woman suspected of cheating, if she becomes deformed, it proved she was cheating?
 
T

Tintin

Guest
#17
#17
God's idea of slavery was very different to that of the pagan nations. You only need to look at what the neighbouring countries were doing at the time. The slaves of the Israelites were treated very much like honoured servants. It was very different to the horrible slavery we see today.
 
M

md22chez

Guest
#18
#18
I was going to give him credit, but I thought the sight of his name may automatically put people into defense mode instead of openly trying to answer my question.
 
J

jimmydiggs

Guest
#19
#19
md22chez said:
I was going to give him credit, but I thought the sight of his name may automatically put people into defense mode instead of openly trying to answer my question.
Click to expand...
I think you pretty much eliminated the possibility of any kind of discussion with the way you so... gracefully... introduced yourself. ;)
 
M

md22chez

Guest
#20
#20
It doesnt seem like they were honoured servants.
- When to give your slaves severe or light beatings (Luke.12:42-8)
- OK to beat slaves only if they don´t die within 2 days (Exod.21:20-1)
- How to mark your slave: drive an awl through its ear (Deut.15:17)


 
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