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Jon4TheCross

Senior Member
Oct 19, 2012
1,864
7
38
#41
Was Christ the end of the Old Testament law? "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished." -Christ, Matthew 5:17-18.
There is an everlasting law, which does not change. Even in the Old Testament the gentiles were allowed to be a part of the commonwealth of Israel, if they circumsised their flesh. Now after the Holy Spirit has been given, we must be circumsised in the heart. The Old Testament was eye for eye and tooth for tooth, and this is Love because it taught us much and prepared us for turning the other cheek, because we see through example that eye for eye and tooth for tooth is not the way of Love. The Old Testament also shows what we are worthy of, which is death, but we are forgiven. We got many spankings in the time of the Old Testament, because we had such a hard time trusting God without the Holy Spirit dwelling in us. Now the Holy Spirit dwells in us, and we are ready to die for anyone, even our enemy if it shows the example of Love/God.

Remember that evil must have their reward, otherwise motivated free-will does not exist. Part of the reward of evil is to have a temporary time to make us suffer, watch us suffer, to kill, steal, and destroy. This is part of their reward, and they chose it out of motivated free-will. Free-will would not exist if they could not have their reward, and so God is not the one to blame for all the bad stuff, we blame those responsible for the appearance of evil, and for choosing that as their reward.

You are more valuable than you know, and I would die for you without hesitation if given the opportunity. I am from Heaven. God has given me the ability to do and say the good that I do and say, I can take no credit. You don't know God if you are calling Him what you have called Him in your second post, and you're surely missing out, because you can certainly know Him, and be literally from Heaven. I understand why you feel this way, and you're forgiven. You can know Him, if you would only believe first.
 
G

Graybeard

Guest
#42
I really wish someone would answer my orignal question. I was a born-again christian for years until I could no longer ignore certain things. I've always tried to search for the truth. I would like to know if Jesus got rid of the old Testament laws (in the passage above, it says he did not). Many Christians try to justify Old Testament laws by saying "that was for a different time period, those laws no longer apply since Jesus came to save us". In the passage above, it clearly states that every jot and dot still applies until Earth no longer exists.
SORRY..BUT NOOOO! YOU WERE NOT born again..........you were perhaps duped into thinking that you were....
 

Jon4TheCross

Senior Member
Oct 19, 2012
1,864
7
38
#44
1Jn_4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jn_4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

I was born again before I was born according to the flesh, because it's all finished, already. Love is the answer, and communicating with the same perspective. Sometimes we communicate from a flesh perspective, sometimes spirit, and sometimes both at the same time. I think there is not a clearly defined perspective in this conversation.
 
P

Powemm

Guest
#45
God takes our corrupt
Beliefs and straightens them
Out..so important to spend time in the
Lord.. Get quiet see what he had to say.... It's not right to be beaten over the head with His word ... I'm sorry this is happening ... The world beats us enough.... C god does not do this and when He is truly on us that is reflected out to you , regardless of what you believe or don't .. Yet!!! We are all seeking truth , some questions are tough, some attitudes are frustrated..... The fruit of Gods spirit is love, joy, Peace, patience, kindness and long suffering .... Something you now know about Gods character and can use as a tool when discerning spirits that are talking to you.... compare the spirit in front of you or coming at you with the true spirit of who God is
...Again " love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, long suffering). god will never ever be rude or unkind as he greets us the moment we come to Him... openly and with love.... A true spirit of god will act as a lamppost in you life... direct you towards God and never away from him, God will never lead you into an argument , tempt you to argue or ask you compromising questions to get into one .... tue spirit of truth will never take credit , but give all credit to God... remember .... God waits with open arms for you.... I encourage you to go to tue index of your binle and look up passages about love .. You will come to know tue love god has for you and He will ( through His word tell you directly). .. focus in Him rather than what the world has to say about Him as many in tue world do not really know Him and put nconfidence in the flesh...as the flesh has much to say...
Be strong in the lord buddy ...I promise He will help you... If we know anything at all it is because of him and what he is doing .. Never anything we are doing ...
but by the grace of god , there go I .....
as we should all be thankful Go has brought us out from the put , placed is upon His rock...




....
 
G

Graybeard

Guest
#46
because if one is truly born again OF THE SPIRIT, then how can one then say the things she has stated? I think that just because one recites "The Sinners Prayer" they automatically assume they are born again.
 

Jon4TheCross

Senior Member
Oct 19, 2012
1,864
7
38
#47
because if one is truly born again OF THE SPIRIT, then how can one then say the things she has stated? I think that just because one recites "The Sinners Prayer" they automatically assume they are born again.
A spirit can be of God and can also be temporarily under the power of and used by an evil spirit.

1Jn_4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

Mat 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealeditunto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 16:18And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Mat 16:19And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Mat 16:20 Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.
Mat 16:21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.
Mat 16:22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.
Mat 16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.


Jesus blamed Satan, not Peter
 
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md22chez

Guest
#48
This is my last post, as I've heard all this before and my question remains unanswered. I had a change where I stopped drinking, having premarital relations, went to school and church Bible study every week, along with church every week. I had a emotional meltdown before I "found Christ"-like many reborn people do. I had gone to church every week with my family and had alwayd believed in god, but this was different. I was committed. Then I met someone who made me question my beliefs and I kept an open mind. Then I honestly seeked the truth. I now have peace of mind and soul, for once in my life. Science give the answers as to our origins and relatedness to all creatures. My boyfriend and my closest friends are atheists -we are very happy and free. Free to live this one life and appreciate every moment, because it's all we have. We are connected to each other biologically, the earth chemically, and the universe atomically. I am happier now than I've ever been, truly. Take the time to test your faith. I recommend "Letter to a Christian Nation" by Sam Harris. Best of luck.
 
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Jan 11, 2013
2,256
17
0
#49
This is my last post, as I've heard all this before and my question remains unanswered. I had a change where I stopped drinking, having premarital relations, went to school and church Bible study every week, along with church every week. I had a emotional meltdown before I "found Christ"-like many reborn people do. I had gone to church every week with my family and had alwayd believed in god, but this was different. I was committed. Then I met someone who made me question my beliefs and I kept an open mind. Then I honestly seeked the truth. I now have peace of mind and soul, for once in my life. Science give the answers as to our origins and relatedness to all creatures. My boyfriend and my closest friends are atheists -we are very happy and free. Free to live this one life and appreciate every moment, because it's all we have. We are connected to each other biologically, the earth chemically, and the universe atomically. I am happier now than I've ever been, truly. Take the time to test your faith. I recommend "Letter to a Christian Nation" by Sam Harris. Best of luck.

I do not believe it possible for a person to be born again of the Spirit and know Christ as their personal Saviour, and then to walk away from Him and find any peace or happiness
I am not saying you were not reborn of the Spirit, but if you were, you cannot be happy now.
 
T

Tintin

Guest
#50
md22chez, oh, really? Science doesn't help to answer metaphysical questions. That's not the function of Science. Science is all about observable results, the physical world. It can't be used to measure the spiritual realm. I've also questioned my faith and been tested by it but doing so drove me towards God more and more, not away from him. I suggest that you don't stop thinking critically but also that you don't open your mind too wide, something may fall out.
 
N

nathan3

Guest
#51
This is my last post, as I've heard all this before and my question remains unanswered. I had a change where I stopped drinking, having premarital relations, went to school and church Bible study every week, along with church every week. I had a emotional meltdown before I "found Christ"-like many reborn people do. I had gone to church every week with my family and had alwayd believed in god, but this was different. I was committed. Then I met someone who made me question my beliefs and I kept an open mind. Then I honestly seeked the truth. I now have peace of mind and soul, for once in my life. Science give the answers as to our origins and relatedness to all creatures. My boyfriend and my closest friends are atheists -we are very happy and free. Free to live this one life and appreciate every moment, because it's all we have. We are connected to each other biologically, the earth chemically, and the universe atomically. I am happier now than I've ever been, truly. Take the time to test your faith. I recommend "Letter to a Christian Nation" by Sam Harris. Best of luck.
You never gave yourself time to study The Bible. But you basically said:, you had a shot at eternal life with your God, and threw it away; for a short romp with your confused boy friend.

Have at it, if that's your cup of tea.
 
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BishopSEH

Guest
#52
I really wish someone would answer my orignal question. I was a born-again christian for years until I could no longer ignore certain things. I've always tried to search for the truth. I would like to know if Jesus got rid of the old Testament laws (in the passage above, it says he did not). Many Christians try to justify Old Testament laws by saying "that was for a different time period, those laws no longer apply since Jesus came to save us". In the passage above, it clearly states that every jot and dot still applies until Earth no longer exists.
I am sorry but no you were not. What you were is someone that had a religious experience. While i am sure it seemed real at the time the thorns of life choked any chance that that religious experience could grow and lead to true salvation.

For a brief season in my walk of faith, during its infancy, I was flat out pissed at God. Like you I started looking for all the things I considered evil about God. I actually even went as far as to write 2 full chapters of a book, which I later destroyed, condemning God for all the things He did which I felt were evil. You know what though? I am not God and neither are you. None of us is remotely capable of seeing the whole picture. Unlike God, who can and does see past, present and future in the here and now, we can only see a tiny fraction which is then filtered through our limited knowledge and wisdom which is corrupted by our nature of sin.

It's like trying to view everything in life while looking through the bottom of a brown beer bottle. You can see but its all distorted and murky.

Here is the good news though, Jesus can fix your eyes so that you can see clearly. The Holy Spirit can light your path and the Father can give you the wisdom to make a right judgement. You are looking at the world and seeing the worst. But the Lord can show you the best if you will truly repent of your sins and open the door to your heart and let Him come in.

In Christ,

Bishop SEH
 
S

SPUZIT

Guest
#53
This post is so unworthy, I feel judgmental , have to say our obstacles can lead to miracles, , you have major obstacles are they bringing you closer to God or farther away from God. I hope, no pray that you se God with much more love than you are posting.on again off again is not a changed heart. Gods word never contradicts itself God cannot lie. Old & new testaments are both complimentary to another. One was prophetic one was fulfillment. Taken out of text it can lead to great spiritual loss not gain only kaos. Please pray, research, listen & above all understand that God is in complete control even when we don't understand.hope to see ya in heaven where God who is above all understanding wants all whom he has created to be. Wow this post really sucked people into a pit going nowhere.don't even want to add to this post. , yet I prayed, wrote, & in the lord with love am praying still...
 
D

Donkeyfish07

Guest
#54
This is my last post, as I've heard all this before and my question remains unanswered. I had a change where I stopped drinking, having premarital relations, went to school and church Bible study every week, along with church every week. I had a emotional meltdown before I "found Christ"-like many reborn people do. I had gone to church every week with my family and had alwayd believed in god, but this was different. I was committed. Then I met someone who made me question my beliefs and I kept an open mind. Then I honestly seeked the truth. I now have peace of mind and soul, for once in my life. Science give the answers as to our origins and relatedness to all creatures. My boyfriend and my closest friends are atheists -we are very happy and free. Free to live this one life and appreciate every moment, because it's all we have. We are connected to each other biologically, the earth chemically, and the universe atomically. I am happier now than I've ever been, truly. Take the time to test your faith. I recommend "Letter to a Christian Nation" by Sam Harris. Best of luck.
If you believed blindly and never had a direct relationship with god then it's no wonder you've taken that world view. You never had a direct experience. Christianity isn't about blind unquestioning belief in something, going to church every sunday, or keeping an endless amount of rules. It's about having a direct relationship with God and can be backed up 100% by experience. Many of us here have that. If you seek God with all your heart, you will find him.
 

tribesman

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2011
4,612
274
83
#55
Was Christ the end of the Old Testament law? "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished." -Christ, Matthew 5:17-18.
Fulfilled, yes. Abolished, no.
 

pickles

Senior Member
Apr 20, 2009
14,479
182
63
#56
I really wish someone would answer my orignal question. I was a born-again christian for years until I could no longer ignore certain things. I've always tried to search for the truth. I would like to know if Jesus got rid of the old Testament laws (in the passage above, it says he did not). Many Christians try to justify Old Testament laws by saying "that was for a different time period, those laws no longer apply since Jesus came to save us". In the passage above, it clearly states that every jot and dot still applies until Earth no longer exists.
Its really very simple, Jesus fullfilled the law.
How? By His sacrifice.
For God so loved the world, that while we were still sinners, He sent His own son, to suffer the cross for us, taking all our sins upon Himself.
That He, who was without sin, would be a Holy sacrifice for our sins, that we would be made free of sin.
All was done because of His love for us.
So, the Law is fullfilled.
You see, the law alone brings death, but perfect love, fullfills the law.

Ask Jesus to show you this, for it is in the cross, that brings understanding.

God bless
pickles
 
W

weakness

Guest
#57
This post is so unworthy, I feel judgmental , have to say our obstacles can lead to miracles, , you have major obstacles are they bringing you closer to God or farther away from God. I hope, no pray that you se God with much more love than you are posting.on again off again is not a changed heart. Gods word never contradicts itself God cannot lie. Old & new testaments are both complimentary to another. One was prophetic one was fulfillment. Taken out of text it can lead to great spiritual loss not gain only kaos. Please pray, research, listen & above all understand that God is in complete control even when we don't understand.hope to see ya in heaven where God who is above all understanding wants all whom he has created to be. Wow this post really sucked people into a pit going nowhere.don't even want to add to this post. , yet I prayed, wrote, & in the lord with love am praying still...
I agree for the most part . I have never seen so much hypocracy judgement ,untruths , arrogance,pride and any other thing unexseptable. what is wrong with some of you???{ think some of you are the one without the Spirit undoubtedly.Go into you closet and seek the lord God help us all.
 

pickles

Senior Member
Apr 20, 2009
14,479
182
63
#58
This is my last post, as I've heard all this before and my question remains unanswered. I had a change where I stopped drinking, having premarital relations, went to school and church Bible study every week, along with church every week. I had a emotional meltdown before I "found Christ"-like many reborn people do. I had gone to church every week with my family and had alwayd believed in god, but this was different. I was committed. Then I met someone who made me question my beliefs and I kept an open mind. Then I honestly seeked the truth. I now have peace of mind and soul, for once in my life. Science give the answers as to our origins and relatedness to all creatures. My boyfriend and my closest friends are atheists -we are very happy and free. Free to live this one life and appreciate every moment, because it's all we have. We are connected to each other biologically, the earth chemically, and the universe atomically. I am happier now than I've ever been, truly. Take the time to test your faith. I recommend "Letter to a Christian Nation" by Sam Harris. Best of luck.
I pray your eyes will be opened, for it is not perfection of this world that is sought, but the perfect.
For true faith in Jesus, brings this perfect, no longer does one live only in the world, but eternal, dead to the flesh and world now, and eternally alive now and in eternity through faith in Jesus.
If all you seek is the peace of the world, you may have it now, but it will pass away as all things do, for the world and flesh are not eternal and will return to ashes.
But if you seek peace now and eternal, and the love that makes the love that is of the world seem as nothing, dead.
Then in Jesus Christ is Lord come in the flesh, in the love that all who live in Jesus know, I pray you will keep seeking Jesus.
Jesus said, when you recieve me in faith, I place my spirit in you, so that you may die to flesh and sin with me, and be born eternal with me by my spirit.
No longer of flesh, but living in Jesus's spirit, thus eternal, His love, God Our Fathers love perfecting you , covered and washed by His grace, free of sin.

Its easy to set aside faith and live in flesh, the world, but these things will pass away.
But , to live in Jesus, eternally, wrapped in His love, well that is the good work, and more perfect and filled than anything the world can ever give.
The world cannot give this.
I dont know if this has helped you in any way, helped you recieve that tinyest mustard seed you seek , to call you in faith again, if there is still a part of you that is crying out, let me know dear Jesus, that you are there.
If in any way this has touched the heart of you that is hesitant to walk away from Jesus, I say this because I know that voice.
I didnt walk away, it has been so many years now since, that I have lost count, simply because I no longer count anymore.:)
Because Jesus was and is and will be, and I sought Him, even when I did not see Him.
I learned then, that one does not walk or see by sight, but by faith.
That is the truth that brings all that is God's love, Jesus's love, Hi Spirit, and all salvation and understanding to you.
And yes, He is all and more than you could even begin to hope for, and nothing the world can offer will ever come close to the joy of salvation and the love one knows in Jesus Christ is Lord come int he flesh.
I plead with you not to set aside the truth, salvation and perfect love of Jesus.
Mostly because He is, and is worth it! :)

Remember the story of the prodgical son?
How the son took his inhearitence and left, loosing all the inhearitance, finnally returning to his fathers home.
In hope he might at least be a slave ?
His father was watching for his return, rejoicing when the son did return.
You see, the son only lost the money, the money was never the true inhearitance.
The true inhearitance was the father's love, which could not be lost, it was always there, waiting for his return.

In Jesus, God bless
pickles
 
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GreenNnice

Guest
#59
I have a problem with the god of the old testament of the christian bible.
So what does the Bible tell us?
Who should we kill? ?

- Homosexuals (Lev.20:13, Rom.1:26-32)
- Adulterers (Lev.20:10, Deut.22:22)
- Disobedient children (Deut.21:20-21, Lev.20:9, Exod.21:15)
- Women who are not virgins on their wedding night (Deut.22:13-21)
- All non-Christians (parable told by Christ - Luke.19:27)
- Those accused of wickedness by at least two people (Deut.17:2-7)
- Anyone who works on the Sabbath (Exod.35:2-3, Num.15:32-6)
(not even to kindle a fire, and no exclusion for ambulance drivers)

Women
- It is shameful for a woman to speak in church (1Cor.14:34-5)
- A man must OK his wife´s words if they are to have force (Num.30:8)
- A woman must not teach or hold authority over a man (1Tim.2:12)
- Lot saves the messengers from the men of Sodom by offering up
his virgin daughters to ´do to them as you please´ (Gen.19:8)
- Kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourself
every girl who has never slept with a man (Moses - Num.31:17-8)

Slavery
- God supports slavery (Lev.25:44-6, Exod.21:2-8, Eph.6:5, Col.3:22)
- Instructions on how to sell your daughter as a slave (Exod.21:7-8)
- When to give your slaves severe or light beatings (Luke.12:42-8)
- OK to beat slaves only if they don´t die within 2 days (Exod.21:20-1)
- How to mark your slave: drive an awl through its ear (Deut.15:17)

Marriage
- It´s best if all people remain unmarried. Marriage is a lesser-of-two-
evils compromise for Christians too weak to resist their sexual urges,
for it is better to marry than to burn. (Paul - 1Cor.7:1-2, 8-9, 25-6, 38)
- The rapist of an unwed woman must buy her and make her his wife
(apparently a far more 'holy' union than a genuine, loving same-sex relationship) - Deut.22:28-9

Justice
- If a man suspects his wife of cheating he can serve her a cursed drink;
if she becomes deformed, then that proves her guilt (Num.5:12-31)
- 42 children killed by bears for calling a prophet baldy (2King.2:23-24)
- OK to beat your children with a rod - it wont kill them (Prov.23:13-4)



3 Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you punish him with the rod, he will not die. 14 Punish him with the rod and save his soul from death.

15 My son, if your heart is wise, then my heart will be glad; 16 my inmost being will rejoice when your lips speak what is right
 
F

Fat

Guest
#60
The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.
So what you're saying here is that God is unjust because he is just. If God is just then he must dispense justice.
If God allows sin to go unpunished then he would truly be an unjust God.

I also note that you are assigning the unjust actions of man to God.