Question for christians from non-believer

[99caravan]

Sadly, if you do not come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ in your time here on earth, you will never get into heaven. There is inference that if you are a fairly decent person, then it is possible you may escape Hell, but never get into Heaven. Outside of Christ, there are no guarantees. Your soul might not make it into either heaven or hell, but once you die it might be the end of your soul. The only souls to inherit eternal life is the ones who trust and accept Christ as their own and personal saviour. The scriptures mention "sleep" and the great white throne judgement, which infers that a lot of souls will be in a "sleep" state until Christ returns. The "good" ones who have submitted their lives to Christ will become like the Angels, or changed and not sleep, as Paul says.

Many mysteries, but only one way to Heaven is guaranteed, and that is through Calvary and the cross of Jesus Christ.

 

[jimmydiggs]

md22chez, did you get my PM?

 

[md22chez]

Thanks everyone!

 

[jimmydiggs]

Thanks everyone!

So you intended this to be a drive by from the beginning?

 

[99caravan]

Do you believe that Jesus was born of a virgin, died on a cross for the sins of the world and was resurrected and ascended into heaven where he lives and reigns to this day? That is the Truth and only the Truth shall set you free. Not all people will be Christians, God is in need of no one. He can create us perhaps you are not on the list.

 

[Tintin]

There's no way on God's green earth that we could cover all of that ground that you expect us. If we were to do it honestly, it would takes a very long time to answer each and every point. You can't just write a comment about such a thing, you have to study the Bible to find meaning. It may seem presumptuous to ask you not to look at the Bible through 21st century eyes, but that's what you have to do. Historical context is key. Also, if you don't have the Holy Spirit living in you, the Bible is going to seem like a bunch of nonsense, no matter what we tell you.

 

[nathan3]

I have a problem with the god of the old testament of the christian bible.
So what does the Bible tell us?
Who should we kill? ?
- Homosexuals (Lev.20:13, Rom.1:26-32)
- Adulterers (Lev.20:10, Deut.22:22)
- Disobedient children (Deut.21:20-21, Lev.20:9, Exod.21:15)
- Women who are not virgins on their wedding night (Deut.22:13-21)
- All non-Christians (parable told by Christ - Luke.19:27)
- Those accused of wickedness by at least two people (Deut.17:2-7)
- Anyone who works on the Sabbath (Exod.35:2-3, Num.15:32-6)
(not even to kindle a fire, and no exclusion for ambulance drivers)
Women
- It is shameful for a woman to speak in church (1Cor.14:34-5)
- A man must OK his wife´s words if they are to have force (Num.30:8)
- A woman must not teach or hold authority over a man (1Tim.2:12)
- Lot saves the messengers from the men of Sodom by offering up
his virgin daughters to ´do to them as you please´ (Gen.19:8)
- Kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourself
every girl who has never slept with a man (Moses - Num.31:17-8)
Slavery
- God supports slavery (Lev.25:44-6, Exod.21:2-8, Eph.6:5, Col.3:22)
- Instructions on how to sell your daughter as a slave (Exod.21:7-8)
- When to give your slaves severe or light beatings (Luke.12:42-8)
- OK to beat slaves only if they don´t die within 2 days (Exod.21:20-1)
- How to mark your slave: drive an awl through its ear (Deut.15:17)
Marriage
- It´s best if all people remain unmarried. Marriage is a lesser-of-two-
evils compromise for Christians too weak to resist their sexual urges,
for it is better to marry than to burn. (Paul - 1Cor.7:1-2, 8-9, 25-6, 38)
- The rapist of an unwed woman must buy her and make her his wife
(apparently a far more 'holy' union than a genuine, loving same-sex relationship) - Deut.22:28-9
Justice
- If a man suspects his wife of cheating he can serve her a cursed drink;
if she becomes deformed, then that proves her guilt (Num.5:12-31)
- 42 children killed by bears for calling a prophet baldy (2King.2:23-24)
- OK to beat your children with a rod - it wont kill them (Prov.23:13-4)

So your saying your all right with all these things that the people are doing ?

On top of that, you don't understand these scriptures, because your misquoting them big time; for example

Your said or think or quoted a blind person:
- The rapist of an unwed woman must buy her and make her his wife
(apparently a far more 'holy' union than a genuine, loving same-sex relationship) - Deut.22:28-9 Since you quoted it we should take a look...


Deuteronomy 22:28-29

King James Version (KJV)

28 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;

29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.

Did it say anything about forcing her in here ??? No. It did Not. You forgot the verse just before also :

25 But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die.

26 But unto the damsel thou shalt do nothing; there is in the damsel no sin worthy of death: for as when a man riseth against his neighbour, and slayeth him, even so is this matter:

27 For he found her in the field, and the betrothed damsel cried, and there was none to save her.


Here forcing is mentioned as being a No No. And God's law demands a evil sick pervert be put to death so that they dont harm another person, people will fear and this will stop.

Maybe you have a problem with a evil man being put to death too ? The problem is not God. The problem is yourself .Or the blind people you allow yourself to listen to. You repeat their falsehoods, Blind leading blind.

Your in error about all the rest if the scriptures you posted. Your not the first person to use these lines and not the last.
If your okay with all these bad things that God has a problem with, then why don't you live that kind of life, and see how you fair.

 

[Rock022]

The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.

Sorry I jumped in to the middle. I have been explained that God in the OT talks to us as we humans talk to a baby you know goo-goo-ta-ta. Then in the New Testament He talks to us more mature. Remember fear of God is the beginning of wisdom but Love is the end of it.

 

[Tintin]

Interesting, Rock. That doesn't explain why the presumably spiritual milk (OT) is a more difficult and controversial read than the spiritual meat (NT) though, does it?

 

[Rock022]

With the proper teachings you can see that the OT is not controversial at all, and how much light brings to the NT. We all hear how the OT speaks of the new and that no scripture contradicts it self. I can not teach this, nor could explain it well, but there are many who have the wisdom to show us. Have you ever heard a good explanation of the OT teaching us about the NT?

 

[Trax]

You threatening me with eternal hellfire is like someone threatening you in saying that Santa will not come if you're bad. I dont buy it because none of it makes sense. When you are closed-minded, as I was for a long time, you ignore the facts and all the contradictions in the bible. If there is a god, I'm sure he would be pleased with someone who used reason (if there is a god, he blessed us with reason and one may assume he would like to see us use it) instead of blindly following a man-made book.

How many people are posting on your account? You are going from one extreme to another, with
each posted messege. You are going from, "ok, I have a question" type post, to "God is bad, boo
hiss..." type messege, then back again. I'll wait till you guys figure out which direction you want to go.

 

[diedandrose]

Hey Chez. Yep, you have some valid points, but I would question whether or not you have ever had an experience of God that really touched your heart, so that you got to know Him beyond the Old Testament law writings. The issue for me is that other faiths have there own issues as well, but Christianity has a solution, namely Jesus. As a non-believer now you will have just as many, if not more, unanswered questions. How do you deal with the uncertainty of what happens to you when you die? I can testify of Gods love & kindness to me & His comforting through lifes trials. If your going to major on the negative aspects of the law, you will be like America's most hated family (from Westboro Baptist I think?), which put aside all the scriptures which extoll all of Gods goodness, faithfulness, longsuffering etc & end up being the negative & sad person you believe God to be! God Bless & I pray the Lord reveals Himself to you in a very personal & loving way. "Knock & the door will be opened, seek & you will find." (Jesus)

 

[RedTent]

md22cjez: The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.

You can thank your lucky stars you have a warped idea of what you are reading, because God created you and runs the world. Your life is in His hands, so deal with it.

For the question about the OT law, the scripture quoted is the answer. God is eternal, God does not change. The God of the Old Testament has the same characteristics as the God of the New Testament, they are the same God. We don’t fully understand the divine law our world runs on, but lots of it is written in the law as we are told of it. Love is the basis of all of it, and you can trace any law back to love. Even that we are to destroy murderers is based on love for God’s people, to protect them from those who would kill. God does not use your idea of love and good for all as the best way to achieve good.

There was a change in the world when Christ lived here. A key issue is that God wants us to live with Him forever and we can’t unless we can rid ourselves of sin through forgiveness. It is impossible for God to live with sin. That is done through Christ taking on our sins. God is eternal meaning beyond time. Before he lived with us in our time, atonement was given us through the shadow of Christ. When it happened in our time the forgiveness was completed. The Holy Spirit was also then more available to humans. Before Christ the emphasis was on “just do it” when it came to law. Afterward, our thinking and emotions were to be more involved with the doing of the law.

There are lots of false teachings about it. Some preach that if you think it and feel it, the law will happen. Or that God of the Old Testament changed so we have a new God. Lots of ideas, but men’s ideas are just that. If the idea doesn’t fit with all scripture it isn’t of God. If one scripture seems to contradict another then it is time to study and work at understanding for we have one God.

What people think about God has absolutely nothing to do with the facts of God. Those facts are in scripture.

 

[Tintin]

Yes, it's not that God changes from the OT to the NT, it's that each of these focus on different characteristics of God. Hence, it seems the NT God (in Jesus) is more loving than the God of the OT.

 

[Powemm]

You know Md, (if you're still reading this )
I remember my early days of coming to know Jesus or at least wondered if He was true... And what was so good about a God who would let a child (me) suffer through beatings, broken arms , hair getting ripped out, locked out in storms for hours, among other things repeatedly for 2 years... I was yanked from my family in an instant and put into This just as quickly... This happened from the tine i was three until I was five, while in foster care.. thought I was a mistake, and how could a good god Allow such a thing to happen if he was indeed good? .. My mind was depraved from "not" knowing Him... To me He was a cruel God .. seeking justice after my life and ready to put me in Hell... Maybe even kill me? (old testament thinking perhaps?) I Tried to read the bible as you are now... And found very similar things ,. His word tells us ( John 15:5 "I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.)
I came into the world not knowing Him.. Right smack in the middle of the worlds sin...I was angry and bitter and scared of everything , even God... I remember as a little girl thinking I wad a huge mistake and god didn't mean to make me ....and even remember asking him.." if I'm not a mistake please god please show me ..... at the age of five I was adopted out ( not realizing I was already adopted by God at the time). so I can see where you question his goodness and being a good god ...
I also know He sees you coming closer to Him in your attempt to figure him out ... when I opened the bible I read things as you are... Disgusted I out it down .... I kept thinking why does everyone say this god is so good?? I couldnt see it ... Well as time went on and years past, I began asking and wondering more... Went to church every Sunday, married for fifteen years , had two children ... great job.... Then BAM! "MY LIFE??" fell completely apart ... I mean completely broke down ....I did everything I knew to do right, and to the best of my ability... I mean the very best... (ashes of the red hefer ? Maybe?). people were telling me " oh! God loves you!"
REALLY???? this is love? THIS? If so I want no part of it ... This is cruel ... I laugh looking back on it now Md ... I even crack jokes about it all even the part as a little girl in foster care ... Imagine that !!!! it's true . you see, I had to
Loose everything I was doing so God could show me some things ... it took my brokenesss complete brokeness to cry and come face to face with God... I was angry too... I asked all sorts of questions ... I thought I'm as good as dead anyway... Go ahead and kill me, it would be better .... I sat in my kitchen floor doing this for hours ... Alone... It was the place I came to the end of myself ... I sat there on the floor and just asked him to please do it (kill me). I deserved it anyway and began pouring out every last thing I could think of ... I remember thinking " I'm serious!!!!". LOL!!! If I wasn't suppose to exist or my life then right here right now do it ... in anger and raw emotion , I told God ... " I'm sorry I dot know you, I want to, but don't know how , and with so many people telling me all sorts of things about you, I dont know who's right !!!!". I'm a southern Oklahoma girl ... blonde hair, green eyes, raised with yes ma'am and no sirs... Politeness matters,you work hard , and you help your neighbors ...yell at God??? just didn't do that sort of thing here ...Well..? Md? Im here to tell ya brother ... My hair turned red I think, and eyes became blue that day ... I broke every kind of rule I had ever heard about approaching God .... well.... after my southern temper tantrum .... I sat in the floor and gave up .. Sir, I'm tellin ya !! I was a hot a mess , flood in the floor from tears and just sat there... hands on chin, curls of hair in my mouth .... A hot mess I was!! I'm talkjn snot!! then something happened...... something urged me to look under a counter ..(. As it was the last day in my house... I was moving out ... Couldn't afford it anymore...). all I had to do was walk out the door.... but I looked before getting up .... there was something black Way back in the corner .... I knew I hadn't put it there.......it was. Bible .... I thought. " OH LORD". ..this is it !!!.. You're takin me out !! .. You've even put a bible in my hands as last rights.... Ok, allright !!! Let's do it ... I laid on the floor and waited ... Even put the bible on my chest... I was ready!! nothing happened ... put it on my head.. I thought "this is going to be
Really bad isn't it?". Okay... Ready!!!..... nothing!

I sat up ... and said God? if you can her
Me at all ... Please show
Me who you are!!! I want to understand... Who are you??? I opened tue book I hadn't opened since I was a young child .... Psalms 91.... God revealed Himself quite differently that day... I saw him in a new light .. I understood what I was reading ... I cried all over again LOL!!
So Md? You're okay buddy ... god has you right where he wants you ... and when your heart is really ready , he will show Himself to you .... I wad confused about who God was because I didn't know him .... and I have a great expectation when you're ready to cone to know him... You're going to be very surprised too... I dont have any answers... Md. But ya know ? God does...our God is HUGE!!!! we sit on this earth like a speck of an atom , we are in his cell , in a pour of his cheek... . He carries us with him everywhere he goes.. our God is very very real MD ... Take it from someone who saw him exactly like you did .... Not anymore . You're allright Md.... Peace brother .....
Michelle ..

 

[Powemm]

One last thing ... I'm usually reading in these forums more than posting .. So this is a bit unusual for me and auto correct on my phone chimed in some helpful words I'm sure... No matter...

I would like to mention .... Jesus laid down His life for all of us ...everyone here in these forums , ones outside of them... You... me... all of us.... What he's done is paid a price... sort of like someone standing in line in front of you and paying for your food? Jesus paid for your soul/ with His life... you don't know this
Maybe? you turn around and theres no one there to thank.... He did it because he loves us, demands nothing from
Us.... even when we don't love him it doesn't matter.... He loves us anyway... .. he's like a bridge ... when we believe and receive him into our heart and know we need him as lord and master over our life because everything we are doing isn't working or isn't fulfilling ...we admit we need him, we can't do anything without Him, We are separated as God has told us until we come to Him thanking Jesus for what he's dine for us ... We give up and start trusting Him... he laid down His life like a bridge... ( got any buddies like that?) Away from our old ways .... (old testament). Pass over the bridge with Him in our heart, thanking him for what he's done ....He did this so we can go directly to God for everything at anytime ... there is no toll at this bridge of your life, Jesus already paid it and he even has become the bridge ... So you could walk in Him and still get to God.. ...nothing you have to do to cross over it ... Just go.... exactly as you are... Change nothing ...god says " just believe " ..
... This is a personal relationship between you, Jesus, and God...very personal and when Gods timing is right .... He will call you and you will know it ...
peace in christ Md

I will be praying for you and if you would say a prayer for me? I would sure appreciate it .
Michelle. ( you can call me Chelle , All
My friends do ).

 

[MaggieMye]

I really wish someone would answer my original question. I was a born-again christian for years until I could no longer ignore certain things. I've always tried to search for the truth. I would like to know if Jesus got rid of the old Testament laws (in the passage above, it says he did not). Many Christians try to justify Old Testament laws by saying "that was for a different time period, those laws no longer apply since Jesus came to save us". In the passage above, it clearly states that every jot and dot still applies until Earth no longer exists.

You were born again? REally? Did you have a Passion for the Lord? Did you diligently read His word and OBEY it? Did you spend time in worship? Did you spend time just talking to HIm to propigate a PERSONAL relationship. Because if you did not, you were NOT a Born again Christian. Just reciting the little "come into my heart and be my Savior" prayer is NOT what get's a person Born Again. It opens the door, but UNTIL you actually WALK the walk and WALK INTO THE KINGDOM by DOING His Word, you are not in.

Forsake teachings that do not come from people you are not grounded in His word....and even then ASK GOD for His wisdom and discernment so that you can KNOW Him truly...THROUGH HIS WORD. Ask Jesus to give you dreams and visions of who He is and who you are to be IN HIM.

Maggie

 

[Elin]

I really wish someone would answer my orignal question. I was a born-again christian for years until I could no longer ignore certain things. I've always tried to search for the truth. I would like to know if Jesus got rid of the old Testament laws (in the passage above, it says he did not). Many Christians try to justify Old Testament laws by saying "that was for a different time period, those laws no longer apply since Jesus came to save us". In the passage above, it clearly states that every jot and dot still applies until Earth no longer exists.

Hi, chez,

Jesus' revelation (Heb 1:2), given by his apostles, reveals that the Mosaic Law, with its curse for imperfect obedience,
has been set aside (Heb 7:18-19) and
replaced with the law of Christ (1Co 9:21),
which is the law of love (Gal 5:6, 14; Jas 2:8) and
which fulfills (accomplishes/performs) the law (Ro 13: 8, 9, 10), but with no curse attached for imperfect obedience.

For:
if I love God, I will not take his name in vain, nor worship idols;
if I love my parents, I will honor them;
if I love my neighbors, I will not steal from them, nor murder them, nor commit adulterty with their spouses,
nor lust after their possessions.

Love fulfills (performs) the law (Ro 13: 8, 9, 10).

Elin

 

[Elin]

On the contrary; I didnt start out by looking for reasons to not believe in god, I was looking for the truth. It is never okay to kill children, homosexuals, women who are not virgins on their wedding night. I also dont think it is every okay to promote slavery. And serving a cursed drink to a woman suspected of cheating, if she becomes deformed, it proved she was cheating?

What is your basis for deciding what is true?

Elin

 

[Donkeyfish07]

You are aware Christianity is not under the Levitical priesthood right? Christianity never has been. Jesus is an eternal priest after the order of Melchizedek. That system became so utterly corrupt over the years and Jesus called the Priests of the day out on it several times. Your attempt to frame god as some evil dictator is not based on what Jesus said or taught, it's based on an old system that Ancient Judaism went by. Jesus didn't come to Earth because everything was fine and hunky doory with the priesthood of that day. If you actually read what Jesus said and taught, you will find nothing like the ancient levitical laws you describe.