Question on Virgin Mary

motojojo · Jun 27, 2010

[FONT=&quot]Slogans Replace the Word of God: By Milton Green[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Congregations are indoctrinated with slogans and a few isolated Scriptures rather than being instructed in the whole counsel of God’s Word, which would lead them to holiness. Echoing through the towers you hear: “Christians aren’t perfect; they are just forgiven”; “Everyone sins”; “Once saved, always saved”; “Well, after all, nobody’s perfect”; “Don’t doubt your salvation; I heard you pray the sinners prayer”; “It’s easy to be saved; all you have to do is follow me in this prayer.” [/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The religious structures today become an expression of a form of godliness through their traditions, doctrines and rituals, rather than becoming an expression of Jesus Christ (which is true godliness). These structures lead people to make a commitment to the structure rather than to Jesus. Then the structure becomes an idol in their (in our, mine) hearts. [/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]It does not really matter how the church member lives, or whether they have unforgiveness one towards another. It only matters that they show up for the religious exercises and tithe. [/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]When this happens in a congregation, a spirit of sleep and darkness covers them. The Spirit of God can have on control over their lives. They are lords over their own lives and live in spiritual darkness. [/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Jesus said: “…This people honor me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. Howbeit in vain do they worship Me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. For laying aside the commandment of god, you hold the tradition of men” (Mark 7:6-8 ) [/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]It is only through God’s Word showing us the true motives of our heart that we are ever able to turn from sin and walk in righteousness. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]I[/FONT][FONT=&quot]t is only as the Word divides spirit from soul and flesh that we can learn to hear the Holy Spirit speak to us. We can then turn aside from soulish and fleshly religion and walk before the Lord in holiness and purity, putting to death all the deeds of the flesh. “As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the formal lusts in your ignorance: But as He which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ya holy for I am holy” (1 Pet. 1: 14-16) [/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The Pharisees were blinded to righteousness and holiness because of their religious structures. Those structures led them after carnal traditions and fleshly desires. Because they were blinded, they could receive no more light from the Word of God. The Word could have no place in them, because God did not have their hearts: “He that is of God hears God’s Words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God” (John 8:47). [/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]It is no different today for people whose hearts have been captured by carnal traditions, which lead people after fleshly lusts. They will hate everyone who brings new light contrary to their religious structures: “But if our gospel is hid, it is hid to them that are lost: in whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them” (2 Cor. 4:3,4). Satan and the powers of darkness blind the minds of all who receive their lies.[/FONT]

charisenexcelcis · Jun 27, 2010

motojojo said:

[FONT=&quot]Slogans Replace the Word of God: By Milton Green[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Congregations are indoctrinated with slogans and a few isolated Scriptures rather than being instructed in the whole counsel of God’s Word, which would lead them to holiness. Echoing through the towers you hear: “Christians aren’t perfect; they are just forgiven”; “Everyone sins”; “Once saved, always saved”; “Well, after all, nobody’s perfect”; “Don’t doubt your salvation; I heard you pray the sinners prayer”; “It’s easy to be saved; all you have to do is follow me in this prayer.” [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The religious structures today become an expression of a form of godliness through their traditions, doctrines and rituals, rather than becoming an expression of Jesus Christ (which is true godliness). These structures lead people to make a commitment to the structure rather than to Jesus. Then the structure becomes an idol in their (in our, mine) hearts. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]It does not really matter how the church member lives, or whether they have unforgiveness one towards another. It only matters that they show up for the religious exercises and tithe. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]When this happens in a congregation, a spirit of sleep and darkness covers them. The Spirit of God can have on control over their lives. They are lords over their own lives and live in spiritual darkness. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Jesus said: “…This people honor me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. Howbeit in vain do they worship Me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. For laying aside the commandment of god, you hold the tradition of men” (Mark 7:6-8 ) [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]It is only through God’s Word showing us the true motives of our heart that we are ever able to turn from sin and walk in righteousness. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]I[/FONT][FONT=&quot]t is only as the Word divides spirit from soul and flesh that we can learn to hear the Holy Spirit speak to us. We can then turn aside from soulish and fleshly religion and walk before the Lord in holiness and purity, putting to death all the deeds of the flesh. “As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the formal lusts in your ignorance: But as He which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ya holy for I am holy” (1 Pet. 1: 14-16) [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The Pharisees were blinded to righteousness and holiness because of their religious structures. Those structures led them after carnal traditions and fleshly desires. Because they were blinded, they could receive no more light from the Word of God. The Word could have no place in them, because God did not have their hearts: “He that is of God hears God’s Words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God” (John 8:47). [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]It is no different today for people whose hearts have been captured by carnal traditions, which lead people after fleshly lusts. They will hate everyone who brings new light contrary to their religious structures: “But if our gospel is hid, it is hid to them that are lost: in whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them” (2 Cor. 4:3,4). Satan and the powers of darkness blind the minds of all who receive their lies.[/FONT]

I'm not sure how this connects to the subject, but I agree.

Shyness · Jun 27, 2010

check that link about mary.............. thats the answer........ : Roman Catholicism | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry

As for motojojo .. The catholic Church is based on a lie..... Peter was no pope... they considered him to be the pope long after he died...

Matt. 16:18, "And I also say to you that you are Peter (petros), and upon this rock (petra) I will build My church; and the gates of Hades shall not overpower it." .................................THE ROman Catholic uses the above verse very wrongly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Matt. 27:60, "and laid it in his own new tomb, which he had hewn out in the rock (petra); and he rolled a large stone against the entrance of the tomb and went away."
1 Cor. 10:4, "and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock (petras) which followed them; and the rock (petra) was Christ."
1 Pet. 2:8, speaking of Jesus says that he is "A stone of stumbling and a rock (petra) of offense"; for they stumble because they are disobedient to the word, and to this doom they were also appointed."

We can clearly see that in the three other uses of the Greek word petra (nominative singular; "petras" in 1 Cor. 10:4 is genitive singular) we find it referred to as a large immovable mass of rock in which a tomb is carved out (Matt. 27:60) and in reference to Christ (1 Cor. 10:4; 1 Pet. 2:8). Note that Peter himself in the last verse referred to petra as being Jesus! If Peter uses the word as a reference to Jesus, then shouldn't we?

Check this : Is Peter the rock on which the Church is built? | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry

In general for all information regarding Roman Catholicism check this: Is Peter the rock on which the Church is built? | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry

Check this also: Berean Beacon proclaims the Good News of Salvation, The Gospel of Jesus Christ. The President and founder is Richard Bennett, a former Roman Catholic Priest.

I'm a Catholic myself and please with all due respect, do not spew out hate against Catholic just because you do not agree with something. God commands we are to love our neighbors as ourselves. Jesus died for everyone because we all are sinners. Debating is like a dog chasing it's own tail, it does not get anywhere or accomplish anything. The truth is we are all sinners and we all fall short of God and therefore we all need Jesus.

Kool_uday85 · Jun 27, 2010

Shyness said:

No hatred absolutely! It was just a statement to show the facts... Why not see them...?

Shyness · Jun 27, 2010

The truth of the matter is it does not matter what church or religion we belong to. We are all in the same boat and we are all sinners. We all need Jesus for Jesus is the only way. Only Jesus never committed a single sin. Nobody is better than anybody because we all fall short of the Glory of God.

greatkraw · Jun 27, 2010

Kool_uday85 said:

Even hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, etc etc have all stood the test of time! They have been existing from many years ..... are you impressed by the time factor? You say that the catholic church is over 2000 years old... and mine might be 100 years old.... Gods word never changes irrespective of any sort of existence of a physical church.... SO just cuz it has been there for so many years.... you say its the truth? A thousand years is like 1 day in front of God... Well, you may be impressed by 2000 years seeming so great and big.... But is that in line with the church in the scripture and beliefs? or are you just impressed by figures and tradition? What did Jesus talk about mans tradition?

" Please don't attack God, just because man has a million different ways to worship the Creator of the Universe."????
WHAT DOES THAT MEAN???? All religions lead to one God? or that All ways lead to Jesus to God??? or what??? Mary leads you to Jesus to God or pray for you?? or Anyone who a bunch of people made saint on earth after they died leads you to God or pray for you to God???? communication with the dead??to ask the dead on earth who you think are in heaven to pray on your behalf??????? or what do you mean???????? So does that mean you mean to say that not only God knows the heart???? So if such alternatives can pray for you or lead you to God then whats the function of the Holy Spirit??? Your statement is so unclear!! You say that I attack God?????? What Logic?? Please name some of the ways to worship the Creator backed by the bible!!

The bible says that even the devil comes as an angel of light!!!

What sort????? Are there million different ways to worship the creator of the Universe??? Meaning what??

Who is attacking you? I am just asking you some questions.. You said you didn't bother to read my posts, you said that I have fixed my mind on things.... But if you see my posts, it talks about the catholic stand on things too........... Please check it......................................... You never gave me any genuine reply so far!!!!!and then..... you then fall back on the word love!

RELIGION is a word used to define Biblical Christianlity and a multitude of sins

"no one cometh unto the Father but by Me"

Kool_uday85 · Jun 27, 2010

Shyness said:

Without Jesus we are all sinners... true..
So what about adding tradition too along with it? Mary praying (or communication with Mary as people think they do)? Etc etc and all other things that arent scriptural and then say Jesus is God and add many non scriptural beliefs? communication with the dead as in be it anyone man may think are in heaven ? and etc etc, beliefs too along with Jesus ? Like the catholic church does? So its both is it?

wisdomseeker · Jun 28, 2010

dscherck said:

Peace be to you
It is required to fufill the duety of a man by the law in which the 2 followed also there is this,
math;
Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.

Shyness · Jun 28, 2010

Bottom line "If you cannot love a person for who they are without attacking them, then you don't love them and if you do not love your neighbor then you do not love God" I'm Catholic and if you cannot accept a person as they are, then that is your fault. If you hate me, that is fine, I have nothing to lose by it.

If you cannot love your neighbor who you can see, then you do not love the lord your God who you cannot see.

Shyness · Jun 28, 2010

Overall, if a person strikes you on one cheek, turn the other. If a person sues you for your coat, let them have your cloak. If a person pushes you one mile, go two miles. Kool_uday85 for your sake, I do pray for you.

Kool_uday85 · Jun 28, 2010

Shyness said:

Its nice to pray for one another... Thank you! but only to the Father in Jesus name..... If its asking through Mary or any other 3rd party.. Please dont pray!

Kool_uday85 · Jun 28, 2010

Shyness said:

I am not attacking.. I am just asking you a simple question.... Please dont consider it as any sort of attack... Come to the Point and tell me.. Is it both to Jesus and Mary and others who arent living and who people have appointed as saints??? Both Jesus and tradition?

nighte · Jun 28, 2010

Do you want to know what Quran say about it?

116. And (remember) when Allâh will say (on the Day of Resurrection): "O 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary)! Did you say unto men: 'Worship me and my mother as two gods besides Allâh?' " He will say: "Glory be to You! It was not for me to say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, You would surely have known it. You know what is in my inner*self though I do not know what is in Yours, truly, You, only You, are the All*Knower of all that is hidden and unseen.

117. "Never did I say to them aught except what You (Allâh) did command me to say: 'Worship Allâh, my Lord and your Lord.' And I was a witness over them while I dwelt amongst them, but when You took me up, You were the Watcher over them, and You are a Witness to all things.

118. "If You punish them, they are Your slaves, and if You forgive them, verily You, only You are the All*Mighty, the All*Wise ."

Quran: Al Maidah

greatkraw · Jun 28, 2010

Jesus Christ is the Son of God and the Creator of the Universe and you will stand before that Man Jesus and be required to give an account of your life to Him.

You will condemn yourself out of your own mouth and memories.

dscherck · Jun 28, 2010

Sorry for taking so long to reply, busy weekend.

Ash_JFF said:

Scripture does indeed not lie. But our human interpretations can sometimes put things into Scripture that aren't there. Fortunately we have the pillar and foundation of the Truth to help guide us in our understanding of Scripture.

The Greek word used here and in other instances where Jesus' "Brothers" are mentioned is "Adelphos" Adelphos can mean brother, but it can and was used numerous times also for "kinsmen", "cousin", "fellow countryman", and "fellow believer" You can see examples of this in many places such as Genesis 14:14, 16; 29:12; Leviticus 25:49; Jeremiah 32:8, 9, 12;, etc. Lot for instances was the nephew of Abraham (see Genesis 11:27-31) yet the term "adelphos" is used for him in Genesis 13:8 and 11:14-16. So one needs to look closely to see whether these "brothers" of Jesus are anywhere identified as the children of Mary. In fact, if one looks closely at the Scriptures, you will find that NOWHERE is Mary stated to be the mother of anyone but Jesus.

You can see this in Acts 1:14, "Mary the mother of Jesus, and His brothers". Some ancient translations even add the conjunctive "syn" to further clarify things so that you get "Mary the mother of Jesus, along with His brothers" If she was their mother as well there would be no need to make a distinction in the texts.

No one in the Catholic and Orthodox church will ever put Mary on a higher level that God. That is a very grave sin. We do honour her though as is appropriate for the woman who gave birth to God the Word. And we can see the fruits of her intercession in the Scriptures themselves. After all, at teh wedding feast in Cana, did she not intercede on behalf of the bridegroom and ask Jesus to help? Even though He told her "my time is not yet come", He performed His first public miracle, turning the water into wine because she asked Him to.

We know that the saints in heaven are aware of us. Scripture makes that fact abundantly clear. We are surrounded by a great cloud of witnesses. They rejoice when we repent! They are part of the body of Christ, just as we are. Did not Paul tell us that nothing can separate us from the body of Christ? Not even death can separate us from the love of Christ. So the saints are our adelphos in Christ, they are aware of us and pray for us. They cheer for us and love us! Mary as well. And you are correct in that she was privileged to give birth to Jesus. In fact, throughout all of history, she has a unique relation to Christ. While we know Christ as Our Saviour, Our Lord, and Our God. She knows Him as all of those and also as her son. No other Christian can claim that privilege. She is truly the Theotokos, and we glorify her and rejoice in her because she is the first of humanity to know Christ.

Scripture disagrees with you. The Archangel Gabriel addresses her with the title of "kecharitomene" (full of grace). This is a unique title that is in the perfect passive participle of "charitoo" What this means is that essentially the Archangel was addressing her as "Hail you who are filled with a grace that both fills you presently and has always been with you" In other words, she was the recipient of grace that predates her meeting the angel. The early Christians have always taught that she never sinned in her life, and while the East and West do have minor theological differences as to when this grace arrived, both of them concur that the Theotokos did not sin during her life.

She had no sins to repent. But she did have reason to call Jesus her saviour. It was because of her unique role in salvation history, to be the new Eve, that she was saved before she was even born. As an analogy, if you think of sin as a deep pit. Whereas you and I fell into the pit and needed to be pulled out, Mary was stopped right before she even fell in. She was saved from falling in. And the Archangel Gabriel acknowledged that special grace she was given in the annunciation.

dscherck · Jun 28, 2010

Cleante said:

Let us pray and work towards this worthy goal! I was privileged to visit an Antiochian Orthodox parish this weekend for Divine Liturgy and it made my heart ache that I could not participate in the Eucharist there because of this schism between the Catholic and Orthodox churches. May the Lord work in our hearts and in the hearts of our Patriarchs, bishops, priests, and laypeople to bring us into communion once more!

dscherck · Jun 28, 2010

Kool_uday85 said:

Just curious, have you read the Catholic viewpoint regarding the Petros/Petra argument?

A good link discussing the Catholic POV with lots of (Scripture references) can be found here: Peter the Rock

Kool_uday85 · Jun 28, 2010

dscherck, I'm curious! I'm curious if you believe that the blood of Jesus has a limitation? Purgatory to Purge (cleanse), a belief by the catholic church that is there?

Instead, they saw thatGod had givenme (Paul) the responsibility of preaching the gospel to the Gentiles, just as he had given Peter the responsibility of preaching to the Jews. 8 For the same God who worked through Peter as the apostle to the Jews also worked through me as the apostle to the Gentiles. - Galatians 2:7-8

I am curious whether you believe the above verse as true ?
How could God change the responsibility at one time (If you go by saying that Jesus told peter was some kind of rock for the church)???????
Was God lying? or changing responsibilities? or his word changes??? one time saying something (as you believe he did) and then another time saying something else as Galatians says??

Shyness · Jun 28, 2010

Also Kool_uday85, In response to your question about tradition, read 2 Thessalonians 2:15.

Kool_uday85 · Jun 28, 2010

dscherck said:

The debate rages over whether “the rock” on which Christ will build His church is Peter, or Peter’s confession that Jesus is “the Christ, the Son of the Living God” (Matthew 16:16). In all honesty, there is no way for us to be 100% sure which view is correct. The grammatical construction allows for either view. The first view is that Jesus was declaring that Peter would be the “rock” on which He would build His church. Jesus appears to be using a play on words. “You are Peter (petros) and on this rock (petra) I will build my church.” Since Peter’s name means rock, and Jesus is going to build His church on a rock – it appears that Christ is linking the two together. God used Peter greatly in the foundation of the church. It was Peter who first proclaimed the Gospel on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2:14-47). Peter was also the first to take the Gospel to the Gentiles (Acts 10:1-48). In a sense, Peter was the rock “foundation” of the church.

The other popular interpretation of the rock is that Jesus was referring not to Peter, but to Peter’s confession of faith in verse 16: “You are the Christ, the son of the living God.” Jesus had never explicitly taught Peter and the other disciples the fullness of His identity, and He recognized that God had sovereignly opened Peter’s eyes and revealed to him who Jesus really was. His confession of Christ as Messiah poured forth from him, a heart-felt declaration of Peter’s personal faith in Jesus. It is this personal faith in Christ which is the hallmark of the true Christian. Those who have placed their faith in Christ, as Peter did, are the church. Peter expresses this in 1 Peter 2:4 when he addressed the believers who had been dispersed around the ancient world: “Coming to Him as to a living stone, rejected indeed by men, but chosen by God and precious, you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.”

At this point, Jesus declares that God had revealed this truth to Peter. The word for “Peter,” Petros, means a small stone (John 1:42). Jesus used a play on words here with petra (“on this rock”) which means a foundation boulder, as in Matthew 7:24, 25 when He described the rock upon which the wise man builds his house. Peter himself uses the same imagery in his first epistle: the church is built of numerous small petros “living stones” (1 Peter 2:5) who, like Peter, confess that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God, and those confessions of faith are the bedrock of the church.

In addition, the New Testament makes it abundantly clear that Christ is both the foundation (Acts 4:11, 12; 1 Corinthians 3:11) and the head (Ephesians 5:23) of the church. It is a mistake to think that here He is giving either of those roles to Peter. There is a sense in which the apostles played a foundational role in the building of the church (Ephesians 2:20), but the role of primacy is reserved for Christ alone, not assigned to Peter. So, Jesus’ words here are best interpreted as a simple play on words in that a boulder-like truth came from the mouth of one who was called a small stone. And Christ Himself is called the “chief cornerstone” (1 Peter 2:6, 7). The chief cornerstone of any building was that upon which the building was anchored. If Christ declared Himself to be the cornerstone, how could Peter be the rock upon which the church was built? It is more likely that the believers, of which Peter is one, are the stones which make up the church, anchored upon the Cornerstone, “and he who believes on Him will by no means be put to shame” (1 Peter 2:6).

The Roman Catholic Church uses the argument that Peter is the rock to which Jesus referred as evidence that it is the one true church. As we have seen, Peter's being the rock is not the only valid interpretation of this verse. Even if Peter is the rock in Matthew 16:18, this is meaningless in giving the Roman Catholic Church any authority. Scripture nowhere records Peter being in Rome. Scripture nowhere describes Peter as being supreme over the other apostles. The New Testament does not describe Peter as being the “all authoritative leader” of the early Christian church. Peter was not the first pope, and Peter did not start the Roman Catholic Church. The origin of the Catholic Church is not in the teachings of Peter or any other apostle. If Peter truly was the founder of the Roman Catholic Church, it would be in full agreement with what Peter taught (Acts chapter 2, 1 Peter, 2 Peter).

Question on Virgin Mary

motojojo

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charisenexcelcis

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Kool_uday85

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greatkraw

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