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Shilohsfoal

Well-known member
#21
Dec 27, 2018
1,236
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#21
Inquisitor said:
Messianic Jews believe, with a few exceptions, that Jesus taught and reaffirmed the Torah and that it remains fully in force. (wiki)

This means that Messianic Jews are fully under the law of Moses.
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I believe it means messianic Jews keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.


Revelation 12
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.


I believe they are the ones who will not flee into the wilderness or recieve the mark of the beast(Israeli government.)


As concerning the law of Moses.

Mathew 5:17
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
 
I

Inquisitor

Well-known member
#23
Mar 17, 2022
2,366
730
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#23
Shilohsfoal said:
I believe it means messianic Jews keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.


Revelation 12
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.


I believe they are the ones who will not flee into the wilderness or recieve the mark of the beast(Israeli government.)


As concerning the law of Moses.

Mathew 5:17
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
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Circumcision
Most Messianic governing bodies acknowledge the presence of gentiles in the congregations, and do not see a need for them to convert to worship in the Messianic style and understanding. When conversion is sincerely desired by a gentile Messianic believer, Messianic Jewish halachic standards (including circumcision) are imposed to maintain integrity among the world Messianic Jewish community.[102][16] (wiki.messianic.jews)

They also observe dietary law.

They practice the festivals.

On the text (Matthew 5:17) you quoted.

The law grants the knowledge of sin. The law condemns. That is why Paul established the law, to ensure the noose was tightly around. The necks of the self righteous Jews that Paul was talking to in Romans 2 & 3.
 
Thunderrr-mental

Thunderrr-mental

Banned
#24
Dec 18, 2023
6,402
406
83
#24
Inquisitor said:
Correct.

They are the ultimate legalists.
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well I don't know about that.

It only the Zionist Jews I worry about really.

But you don't have to be a Jew to be a Zionist.

But anyway I believe Jesus came to fulfill the law in every believer too 😂

So I see it as a process for everyone.

There is no way you can love your neighbour or your enemy without knowing the law.

I think it's good to know the law.

But honestly it's only the Zionists who have got my goat up.

But to be honest I'm sick to death of religious arguments
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#25
Mar 1, 2022
15,098
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#25
Thunderrr-mental said:
well I don't know about that.

It only the Zionist Jews I worry about really.

But you don't have to be a Jew to be a Zionist.

But anyway I believe Jesus came to fulfill the law in every believer too 😂

So I see it as a process for everyone.

There is no way you can love your neighbour or your enemy without knowing the law.

I think it's good to know the law.

But honestly it's only the Zionists who have got my goat up.

But to be honest I'm sick to death of religious arguments
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What kind of arguments do you like?
 
2ndTimeIsTheCharm

2ndTimeIsTheCharm

Well-known member
#27
Feb 17, 2023
1,446
757
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#27
If you live or work near Jewish enclaves among the boroughs of New York City, you might experience some shunning. I was taking care of a patient in a Jewish hospital. A group of girls went around to all the patients with Jewish sounding names and gave them roses and a word of encouraged. They totally ignored me. *Shrug*

I don't hate them - I'm just looking forward to the day when the remnant in Israel recognizes Jesus is their Messiah and that we're actually their brothers and sisters in Christ!


🪂
 
S

Shilohsfoal

Well-known member
#28
Dec 27, 2018
1,236
104
63
#28
Inquisitor said:
Circumcision
Most Messianic governing bodies acknowledge the presence of gentiles in the congregations, and do not see a need for them to convert to worship in the Messianic style and understanding. When conversion is sincerely desired by a gentile Messianic believer, Messianic Jewish halachic standards (including circumcision) are imposed to maintain integrity among the world Messianic Jewish community.[102][16] (wiki.messianic.jews)

They also observe dietary law.

They practice the festivals.

On the text (Matthew 5:17) you quoted.

The law grants the knowledge of sin. The law condemns. That is why Paul established the law, to ensure the noose was tightly around. The necks of the self righteous Jews that Paul was talking to in Romans 2 & 3.
Click to expand...

When the nations in Babylon flee,the Messianic Jews have no place to flee. They are in their own as ancestral country.Besides ,they are commanded to warn the people of Israel in the old testimony.They will not flee anywhere.
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#29
Jul 2, 2011
21,247
6,540
113
#29
Inquisitor said:
They are the ultimate legalists.
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Have you not learned: The Law and the Prophets all point to Jesus Yeshua. We do learn from our schoolmaster, but all has been made clear by the Master, Jesus Yeshua.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#31
Jul 18, 2017
24,610
13,019
113
#31
Poinsetta said:
...who really is Israel and Jerusalem and Judah? Who really are these cities?
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Jerusalem is the city chosen by God for His temple around 1000 B.C., but Judah is the province in which this city is located. Actually Jerusalem was already special to God long before that, and Melchizedek was the king of Jerusalem and also the priest of the most High God at the time of Abraham (c 2000 B.C.) (Gen 14:8). "Salem" is Jerusalem, and Jerusalem will continue to be special for God even after the Second Coming of Christ.

Israel (the modern nation-state) is in possession of Jerusalem and Judah at this time. But Israel was founded as a Zionist SECULAR state in 1948. The Israelis consist of (a) Orthodox Jews, (b) secular Jews, and (3) Messianic Jews (who are actually believers in Christ, but call Him Yeshua).

"Israel has long welcomed evangelicals’ political and financial support, and it has largely shrugged off concerns about any hidden religious agenda. But most Jews view any effort to convert them to Christianity as deeply offensive, a legacy of centuries of persecution and forced conversion at the hands of Christian rulers. In part, because of those sensitivities, evangelical Christians rarely target Jews."
https://apnews.com/article/israel-n...roselytizing-217563437f499aec3d865e2f009ddac9

However the practice of religions is free, and "The Christian communities in Israel run numerous schools, colleges, hospitals, clinics, orphanages, homes for the elderly, dormitories, family and youth centers, hotels, and guesthouses. "

At the same time there are some Christians in the West who support Israel since they see its existence as a partial fulfillment of Bible prophecy. But since Christ will come to Jerusalem at His Second Coming, we should see that as the reason why God has His hand even over unbelieving Israel. Orthodox Jews believe very strongly in the future coming of "Messiah". yet they reject Jesus of Nazareth. So they will be seeing a counterfeit "Messiah" when the Antichrist shows up BEFORE the Second Coming of Christ.

As to Bible verses to support this, you will simply have to study the Bible for yourself. There are just too many passages connecting all of this.
 
Thunderrr-mental

Thunderrr-mental

Banned
#32
Dec 18, 2023
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#32
Nehemiah6 said:
Jerusalem is the city chosen by God for His temple around 1000 B.C., but Judah is the province in which this city is located. Actually Jerusalem was already special to God long before that, and Melchizedek was the king of Jerusalem and also the priest of the most High God at the time of Abraham (c 2000 B.C.) (Gen 14:8). "Salem" is Jerusalem, and Jerusalem will continue to be special for God even after the Second Coming of Christ.

Israel (the modern nation-state) is in possession of Jerusalem and Judah at this time. But Israel was founded as a Zionist SECULAR state in 1948. The Israelis consist of (a) Orthodox Jews, (b) secular Jews, and (3) Messianic Jews (who are actually believers in Christ, but call Him Yeshua).

"Israel has long welcomed evangelicals’ this.
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No it's not in possession of Judah, that is a stupid Zionist evangelist view.

Judah are Christians not Jews judah are the hebrews not Jews.


Your view is the reason why there is so many dead Christians in Isreal.

and you are in the same league as John Hagee
 
Evmur

Evmur

Well-known member
#34
Feb 28, 2021
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#34
Poinsetta said:
I've recently visited a forum on Discord named "Israel" it also had the Israel flag. Wow, they were not happy people. They were mean, negative and off key with Christianity. This made me sad at first, and it made me think further...: who really is Israel and Jerusalem and Judah? Who really are these cities? Can I just go to Israel and assume everyone is friendly and Christian? Maybe not. :( So who really are they? Thanks.
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enemies of the gospel for our sakes but as touching election beloved for the father's sake
 
Thunderrr-mental

Thunderrr-mental

Banned
#35
Dec 18, 2023
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#35
This Jewish Zionist is the one who as really got my goat up.

He was on BBC news everyday being smug then of corse he got his smug smile wiped of when he got charged with genocide.

But the reason why I'm infuriated is because this guy was not admitting what Isreal was doing was wrong

But then theres many Christians evangelists like this guy to.

Danny donon Isreal embassy leader

Sky was wrong to apologize

 
Evmur

Evmur

Well-known member
#36
Feb 28, 2021
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christianchat.com
#36
Thunderrr-mental said:
well I've been trying to say who Isreal is for several weeks here, and I've been called ever name under the sun here.
And that was even tho, I was telling everyone they will be charged with genocide soon. And they was,

Theres also an Isreal where by, Jacob was called Isreal.. and it's believe the children of Isreal today are Christians.

But yet Christians bless Isreal the Jews who kill 15000 children in a month, spit at Cross and kill Palestine Christian. But I wonder are they brainwashed Christians. Brainwashed by Zionist Christians. There known as the evangelicals. There everywhere.

So I guess I'm either in a place full of Jews.

Or quite alot of people are brainwashed.

But then I heard people must bless Isreal in order to not be cursed.


But like you say who is Isreal.

Well as far as I'm aware Isreal should be owed by the hebrews who are a type of Christian. The line of Judha in my book should be hebrews.

But no apparently there Jews.

But yeah I guess Im anti Jewish for saying so.

But no I ain't anti anything I'm just me.

Basically the majority of Jews are split into two groups these days, theres the religious Jews and then theres the Zionist Jews, who are of a political type, but use religion as a weapon, who are backed by Zionist Christians, who also use religion as a weapon.
Well it just so turns out there many Zionist Christians here. Some know they are and most don't.


Luckily there's the messianic Jew, but I really don't see a lot of them but at least they exists.

But anyhow I really think Isreal belongs to the hebrews.


Hope that helps 👍
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were you also once an enemy of God?

We are not to suppose that the Jews will offer Christians any succour during the tribulation ... but still they have a bright future
 
Evmur

Evmur

Well-known member
#37
Feb 28, 2021
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London
christianchat.com
#37
Thunderrr-mental said:
This Jewish Zionist is the one who as really got my goat up.

He was on BBC news everyday being smug then of corse he got his smug smile wiped of when he got charged with genocide.

But the reason why I'm infuriated is because this guy was not admitting what Isreal was doing was wrong

But then theres many Christians evangelists like this guy to.

Danny donon Isreal embassy leader

Sky was wrong to apologize

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it will be a good day when all arabs are out of Israel.
 
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