Questions about JW’s

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MattforJesus

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
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The purpose of this thread is simply to compile a list of the differences between Christianity and Jehovah Witnesses.

I’ll get us started:

Do JW’s teach that Adam was perfect?


Please be civil.
Jehovah's Witnesses believe that God made Adam and Eve, the first humans, and put them in a garden called Eden. They believe that when Adam and Eve sinned, they no longer had God's approval so they began to get sick and die. They were not perfect any more and could not have perfect children. Because of this, humans could not remain sinless. They believe that Jehovah later sent Jesus to die (on a pole (stake), not a cross, as most Christians believe, which is known as 'Christendom') to forgive mankind's sins.

Adam and Eve were created perfect for they were made in the image of God, an innocent nature in flesh.

They were made perfect because it would of never entered their mind to eat of the tree unless an outside source tempted them.

So God allowed Satan to tempt Eve and she said they could not eat of the tree for that is all she could know and think.

And then Satan tempted her with an alternate reality by saying they would be as gods having an elevated position from their current status.

And Eve sinned, and then Eve was the outside source that tempted Adam showing him she did not die and nothing bad happened to her, and he sinned.

Then they had a choice.

Which every person is responsible for the own sins, and not another person's sins.

So the sin of Adam and Eve does not come upon people for that is their sin.

But when they ate of the tree they had a choice between good and evil, so all their offspring is born with a choice, so they are born now knowing God and will do wrong before they do right and follow God.

So all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.

And because we are all sinners we do not get it as good as the garden of Eden, so we get sick, we die, we have natural disasters, and we lack food where God used to provide it.

God warns the saints of the new age movement, and their false interpretation of the Bible based on the occult, and evolution, and people are still evolving to be greater and spiritual provided by the New Age Christ, and Jesus is not Lord and Savior, but a good teacher and love, and the Christ conscience came upon him, and he evolved to be an ascended master and avatar, and believe in no personal God, but honor the God of forces, or the power of nature as their higher power, the evolutionary process, and the New Age Christ is the final teacher which they believe the Christ conscience will come upon him and he will evolve to be greater and spiritual above Jesus.

The first lie told in the garden by Satan will be the last lie told by Satan to the new age movement that shall deceive the world.

For the new age movement is of seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils.

For the lie Satan told Eve that she will have an elevated position if she ate of the tree is the same lie told to the new age movement that the Bible is really about an elevated position for humans, and is not preaching a personal God, but the power of nature, the God of forces.

For the new age movement gets in contact with their guiding spirit and it is not a good angel, but a devil.

And we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

So the devil is influencing the leaders to go by the new age movement, and that interpretation of the Bible, and all religions so the New Age Christ can start working in the world after the nations come together and say Peace and safety.

Which God is allowing it to happen so He can end sin on earth after they follow the beast, and take his mark.

The new age movement believe there are aliens that will help them to have peace on earth, and that many are placed on earth right now to help them in the leadership, and high positions.

And say that Lucifer is a Solar Angel that descended from Venus eons ago to bring the principle of mind to the then animal-man, and will cause them to evolve after the nations come together and work for peace on earth.

They think they are aliens, but they are the fallen angels come to wreck havoc on earth to deceive the wicked to rebel against God, and when they do rebel against God, He will end sin on earth.
 

NWL

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2012
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I'm confused, I don't believe you did rest your case, all you did is make an assertion, you stated "To be Christian is to to be born from above by Spirit, to be given a new heart and a new spirit", I do not find this expressed anywhere in scripture, you cited John 3 and Ezekiel 36 but gave no verse and no explanation so do not understand how you 'rest your case'?
 

Reformyourself

Well-known member
Apr 29, 2020
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Gal. 1:8
But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.
 

NWL

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2012
433
9
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Actually Thayer was a Unitarian and he did not believe in the deity of Jesus Christ. Having said that I have one question for you that perhaps you can clear up.
I'm aware Thayer was a unitarian, I don't get how changed anything I said?

Isaiah 44:24, "Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb. I, the Lord am the maker of all things, Stretching out the heavens BY MYSELF, and spreading out the earth ALL ALONE.

So, why is Jesus Christ, the Son of God identified as the creator at John 1:3...

Or at Colossians 1:16

Hebrews 1:10.

Finally, Revelation 3:14. "The Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God." The Greek word for "Beginning" in the verse is "arche." We get our English word "architect" from that word. An architec is the one who designs the plans, or is the "origin/planner" of something. This verse is "NOT" teaching that Jesus is a created being. And btw, neither is Proverbs 8:22 teaching Jesus is created.

So, how do you reconcile what Isaiah 44:24 says that God created all alone and by Himself with the verses I just posted? One more thing I would like to know?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
Good question, I have to explain quite a bit in order to properly answer your question.

What many people fail to see with Isaiah 44:24 is that the sentiments being expressed in the verse regarding God creating the world 'by himself' and 'all alone' was in comparison to false gods in and around the nation of Israel, a quick read of the chapter reveals this, just take a look and see what YHWH was saying prior to his statement in v24. "7 Who is there like me? Let him call out and tell it and prove it to me! From the time I established the people of long ago, Let them tell both the things to come And what will yet happen...9 All who form carved images amount to nothing, And their cherished objects will be of no benefit. As their witnesses, they see nothing and know nothing, So those who made them will be put to shame. 10 Who would form a god or cast a metal image That can bring no benefit?...17But the rest of it he makes into a god, into his carved image. He bows down to it and worships it. He prays to it and says: “Save me, for you are my god.” 18 They know nothing, they understand nothing, Because their eyes are sealed shut and they cannot see, And their heart has no insight. (Isaiah 44:7,9,10,17,18)

We know for a fact that when YHWH expressed he 'stretched out the heaven by himself and that when he spread out the earth he was all alone' the context was in relation to 'calling out' false gods and not an all-encompassing definite statement because God was NOT alone when creating the heavens and the earth, YHWH in Job 38:4,7 states "Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation? Tell me, if you understand...while the morning stars sang together and all the angels shouted for joy?". As can be seen, the Angels were with God and witnessed the creation of the Earth and even 'shouted for joy' at its creation, yet Isaiah 44:24 states God was 'alone' and 'by himself', do we have a contradiction on our hands? No, since YHWH being 'alone' and 'by himself' was in comparison to the false gods of the surrounding nations and not a literal statement that God was literally alone. I should also state Isaiah 44:24 it speaking in regards to YHWH active role in creation.

You mention John 1:3 and ask "why is Jesus Christ, the Son of God identified as the creator at John 1:3", he isn't spoken of as the creator, in fact, John 1:3 is speaking of Jesus as the passive agent of creation by its use of the Greek word δι (preposition; dia, through), along with its use of αὐτός (αὐτός = him - which is genitive here) usually takes the meaning of "through", as in "by means of", hence why most bibles render John 1:3, 'all things were made through him'. Backing this idea up, scripture is extremely clear the Father created all things through Jesus, this further defends the claim that the Father YHWH was the active cause of creation and Jesus the passive agent through which he created all things. The scriptures I allude to are 1 Cor 8:6 and Hebrews 1:1,2 as well as Col 1:16-17 which I will not fully cite.

"..Long ago God spoke to our forefathers...Now at the end of these days he has spoken to us by means of his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.." (Hebrews 1:1, 2)

"..there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him.." (1 Corinthians 8:6)

So to answer your question in one short paragraph, Isaiah 44:24 wasn't speaking 100% literally when it stated YHWH was alone and by himself, this is clear as Angels were with him, the context was in regards to YHWH vindicating himself in relation to the false gods of surrounding nations, and John 1:3 alone with 1 Cor 8:6 and Hebrews 1:1,2 make it clear Jesus has a passive role as the Father created all things through Jesus, Jesus himself was not the orginator/source of creation, the Father was according to the verses showed.

The NWT has inserted the word "other" at Colossians 1:16. Can you please give me a list of what these so-called "other" things are that are not included in the "ALL" things that have been created by Jesus Christ?
I'm not here to defend the NWT, but I will explain a certain point which in effect explains why they put the word 'other' into the passage.

When the bible uses definite phrases, namely, 'only one', 'no other', 'all things', it doesn't always have to necessitate that what is being spoken of should be understood with a completely definite undertone, not allowing any wriggle room by the said terms, most of the time when definite language is used it leaves out things 'that go without saying'. For example, Col 1:18 states "[Jesus] is the first-born Son, who was raised from death, in order that he alone might have the first place in all things", as can be seen, according to v18 Jesus has the first place in "all things", so is Jesus the first murder, the first homosexual, the first lier? Of course not, nobody would take the "all things" mentioned to mean litreally 'all things', it 'goes without saying' that the "all things" is limited despite using the definite term 'all things'. Similarly, Hebrew 2:8 states in regards to mankind, "All things you [God] subjected under his feet.” By subjecting all things to him, God left nothing that is not subject to him. Now, though, we do not yet see all things in subjection to him", did you notice the definite language being used, God subjected 'all things' under mankind and the writer goes as far to say by doing so God left 'nothing' that was not subject to man, according to the definite language used that would include and mean the Angels and God himself were subjected under man, as they would no doubt be a part of the 'all things' and the 'nothing that was not subject to man'. Common sense prevails and the things that 'go without saying' can be presumed in the verse despite such strong and definite language, the 'all things' clearly does not literally mean 'all thing'. There are many more examples I could employ.

Thus, when we come to the word 'other' inserted by translators into Col 1:15 in the NWT, it becomes clear that it was done so to make the distinction that Jesus did not create himself (oxymoron), or even the Father and Holy Spirit, for the ease of the readers. Translations of some bibles often insert words, even the word 'other' into passages, to make a distinction for the ease of readers. When Col 1:16-17 states Jesus created "all things" this might lead some to believe Jesus was not himself part of creation when v15 expresses he is, and again, that he created the Father and HS as they are things and could be assumed to be part of the 'all things' mentioned by some unaware bible readers. I do not personally care for the NWT inserted word other there, as the point can be easily explained without the insertion as I have done above, but understand why they have done so.
 

NOV25

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Nov 23, 2019
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I'm confused, I don't believe you did rest your case, all you did is make an assertion, you stated "To be Christian is to to be born from above by Spirit, to be given a new heart and a new spirit", I do not find this expressed anywhere in scripture, you cited John 3 and Ezekiel 36 but gave no verse and no explanation so do not understand how you 'rest your case'?
It’s ok. I too, didn’t understand scripture before I became a Christian.
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
2,908
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I'm one of Jehovah's witnesses and thought I'll quickly address the points you made, for the benefit of others, as some are inaccurate.


FALSE. We accept that Jesus is God, in a certain sense (Isaiah 9:6, John 10:28, Heb 1:8), we simply do not accept him as the 'one God'. Scripture is clear that the 'one God' is the Father, this is according to 1 Cor 8:4-6 among other scriptures, "there is no God but one...just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” 6 there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ...", as we can see by the verse, only the Father is identified as the 'one God', not Jesus.
You got one problem here, you said certainly so that Jesus is God based on the 3 text mentioned, then you keep on saying you don't accept him as the 'one God' and as scripture is clear 'that the one God, is the Father'. How will you reconcile this. Jesus (God) + Father (God) = 2 Gods. In a sense that makes 2 Gods. Are the JW's then believe in the plurality of Gods but not in one God or it might be that it is a misunderstood text.
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
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For a home-spun, Bible-based religion whose origin is relatively recent, the
Watchtower Society has done pretty well for itself. Beginning with one man
shortly after the American Civil War, it currently numbers approximately 8.2
million active members spread out in approximately 118,000 congregations
worldwide. (Congregations have been displaced and consolidated in recent
years due to the Society liquidating a number of Kingdom Halls in order to
settle its legal obligations.)

My first encounter with a Watchtower Society agent (a.k.a. Jehovah's
Witness) occurred in 1969. At the time I was young and inexperienced; and
thus assumed that the missionary coming down my dad's driveway was a
typical Christian.

But when I talked this over with an elder; he became alarmed; and urged
me to read a little book titled "30 Years A Watchtower Slave" by William J.
Schnell; whom the Society at one time demonized as an agent of Satan. I
would not be surprised if it still does.

After getting my eyes opened by Mr. Schnell's book, I was afterwards
steered towards another book titled "Kingdom Of The Cults" by Walter
Martin. No doubt the Society demonizes Mr. Martin too.

Around late 1980, my wife and I attended a series of lectures sponsored by
a local church titled "How To Witness To Jehovah's Witnesses". The speaker
(call him Pete) was an ex JW who had been in the Watchtower Society
system for near three decades before terminating his involvement; so he
knew the twists and turns of its doctrines pretty good.

Pete didn't train us to hammer the Society's missionaries in a discussion
because even if you best them scripture for scripture, they will not give up
on the Society. Their mind's unflinching premise is that the Society is right
even when it appears to be totally wrong. They are thoroughly convinced
that the Society is the voice of God, while your voice has no more validity
than that of a squeaky little gerbil.

Later on, I read a book titled "Why I Left The Jehovah's Witnesses" by Ted
Dencher. I also read the Society's little brown book titled "Reasoning From
The Scriptures
".

(This was all before the internet and the ready volume of information
available online, e.g. YouTube.)

From all that vetting, study, and training I quickly discovered that although
the Watchtower Society uses many of Christianity's standard terms and
phrases, those terms and phrases mean something entirely different in the
JW mind than what you'd expect because the Society has re-defined the
meanings of those terminologies.

So your first challenge with Jehovah's Witness teachings is to scale the
language barrier. That by itself is an Herculean task because you'll not only
be up against a tangle of semantics, but also a Jumanji of twisted scriptures,
double speak, humanistic reasoning, rationalizing, and clever sophistry.
_
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
1,527
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Are the JW's then believe in the plurality of Gods

The Watchtower Society's theology is a based on a version called
monolatrism, which basically alleges that all gods are actual deities; though
not all deities are deemed worthy of worship. This is not quite the same as
polytheism where numerous gods are all considered worthy of worship.

Monolatrism is distinguished from monotheism (asserts the existence of only
one god) and distinguished from henotheism (a religious system in which the
believer worships one god alone without denying that others may worship
different gods of equal value)

While classical Christianity recognizes but two categories of gods-- the true
and the false, viz: the authentic and the imitation, the intrinsic and the
artificial --the Watchtower Society's theologians took the liberty to create a
third sandwiched between the true and the false called "mighty ones". The
mighty-one category is a sort of neutral zone where qualifying personages
exist as bona fide deities without violating the very first of the Ten
Commandments. For example:

"I myself have said: You are gods" (Ps 82:6)

The gods referred to in that passage are humans; which everybody should
know are only imitation deities rather than the genuine article; so in order to
avoid stigmatizing humans as fake gods, the Society classifies them as
mighty ones.

This gets kind of humorous when we plug "mighty one" into various
locations. For example:

"In the beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was a mighty one." (John 1:1)

And another:

"No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten mighty one who is in
the bosom position with the Father is the one that has explained him." (John
1:18)

The "mighty one" category was an invention of necessity. In other words:
without it, the Society would be forced to classify the only-begotten (John
1:18) and the Word (John 1:1) as a false god seeing as how Deut 6:4, John
17:3, and 1Cor 8:4-6 testify that there is only one true god.

POSIT: Jesus verified the authority of Ps 82:6 in a discussion recorded at John
10:34-36. If the word of God cannot be nullified, then those gods have to be
real gods.

RESPONSE: Oh; they're real alright: real imitations because according to Deut 6:4, John
17:3, and 1Cor 8:4-6 there is only one true god. Therefore the gods in Ps 82
are artificial gods. Plus; true gods don't die; viz: they're immortal, i.e. impervious
to death. The gods in Psalm 82 are neither immortal nor impervious to
death.

"Surely you will die just as men do" (Ps 82:7)

So then, what does all this say about the Word of John 1:1? Well; if the
Word is only a mighty one, as the Watchtower Society alleges; then he's an
artificial god-- i.e. a false god --and his divinity is no more divine in reality
than a totem pole or a statue of Shiva.
_
 

NWL

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2012
433
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It’s ok. I too, didn’t understand scripture before I became a Christian.
I feel sad that me asking you the simplest of things results in you being rude to me for now reason. I have no issue with you claiming 'Christian' means what you say it means, just don't tell me I'm wrong with my understanding of the term, it becomes a different matter when you keep asserting the same thing, I'm not a Christian, and cannot actually explain why I'm not a Christian despite one of the best scholars, who actually knows Greek unlike you, states the Greek word 'Christian' means 'someone who follows Christ'.

The fact you are unable and unwilling to evidence what you claim and can only mock me when I ask you a question make your statement that you're a 'Christian' ever so ironic. One cannot pick a bible up that's been translated into English by scholars, and yet refuse to accept scholars understanding of the words they themselves have translated, it's self-defeating.
 

Moses_Young

Well-known member
Sep 15, 2019
760
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I feel sad that me asking you the simplest of things results in you being rude to me for now reason. I have no issue with you claiming 'Christian' means what you say it means, just don't tell me I'm wrong with my understanding of the term, it becomes a different matter when you keep asserting the same thing, I'm not a Christian, and cannot actually explain why I'm not a Christian despite one of the best scholars, who actually knows Greek unlike you, states the Greek word 'Christian' means 'someone who follows Christ'.

The fact you are unable and unwilling to evidence what you claim and can only mock me when I ask you a question make your statement that you're a 'Christian' ever so ironic. One cannot pick a bible up that's been translated into English by scholars, and yet refuse to accept scholars understanding of the words they themselves have translated, it's self-defeating.
If you do not believe Jesus is God, as the scriptures clearly testify, then you reject the Father also, and are none of His. The (false) Jesus that the JWs proclaim is not the only true God (by their admission), and therefore has neither power to forgive sin nor resurrect from the grave. As JWs deny that Jesus Christ was resurrected and ascended to Heaven, is this not a denial that Jesus Christ came in the flesh? Scriptures teach that such belief is of antichrist.

1 John 4:1
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
 

NWL

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2012
433
9
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You got one problem here, you said certainly so that Jesus is God based on the 3 text mentioned, then you keep on saying you don't accept him as the 'one God' and as scripture is clear 'that the one God, is the Father'. How will you reconcile this. Jesus (God) + Father (God) = 2 Gods. In a sense that makes 2 Gods. Are the JW's then believe in the plurality of Gods but not in one God or it might be that it is a misunderstood text.
The meaning of the word 'God' in English has somewhat of a different meaning as the term 'God' in ancient Hebrew and Greek. In the original languages the term 'God' had a secondary meaning that could be applied to other beings who were, powerful, mighty, divinely appointed or falsely worshipped, how can I say this, you might think, I say so as that's exactly what the bibles expresses, as I will show.

"..And the Lord [YHWH] said to Moses: Behold I have appointed thee the God of Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.." (Exo 7:1 DRB)
"..You have made them a little lower than the
angels [Elohim/gods] and crowned them with glory and honor.." (Psalms 8:5 NIV. Compare Hebrews 2:7)
"..God takes his place in the divine assembly; In the middle of
the gods he judges.." (Psalm 82:1)
"..Jesus answered them: “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said: “
You are gods”..’ (John 10:34)
"..among whom [satan]
the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers.." (2 Corinthians 4:4)

Notice all the above verse call other beings GOD, before you think to yourself, "yes but most of these have the lowercase g", I should highlight that neither ancient Hebrew of Greek used uncapitalized letter but wrote in capital letters all the time, so there was simply no distinction between god and God as we have in English translations, this is simply something translators have adopted for the ease of readers.

Getting back to the point, the bible is clear that other beings who are not the 'one God' are referred to as GODS, this is irrefutable and undeniable, in 1 Cor 8:5,6 Paul even states there are 'many gods' but to him and his listeners there is only 'one God the Father', "For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “godsand many “lords,” 6 there is actually to us one God, the Father", The Father being God is different to these other persons being Gods because the term had a secondary lesser meaning as I mentioned earlier according to the original languages, hence why there is only 'one God', as the term when applied to God carries the full meaning of the term.

Nothing I have said above are my own words or JW's words, these are the words of the bible since all I've done is shown scripture from the bible and stated basic facts. As I've said previously, Jesus is God as many other beings are and have been, he simply isn't the 'one God', since, as Paul states, only the Father is the 'one God'.
 

NWL

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2012
433
9
18
If you do not believe Jesus is God, as the scriptures clearly testify, then you reject the Father also, and are none of His. The (false) Jesus that the JWs proclaim is not the only true God (by their admission), and therefore has neither power to forgive sin nor resurrect from the grave. As JWs deny that Jesus Christ was resurrected and ascended to Heaven, is this not a denial that Jesus Christ came in the flesh? Scriptures teach that such belief is of antichrist.

1 John 4:1
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
JW's and I do believe Jesus is God, but in a certain sense, scripture makes it clear that he is (John 20:28, Is 9:6, Hebrews 1:8), we simply do not accept him as the 'one God'. As I've already stated on this thread, we only see the Father as the 'one God', Paul himself does not include Jesus in the category of the 'one God', this fact cannot be ignored:

"..there is no God but one. 5 For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” 6 there is actually to us one God, the Father...and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ.." (1 Corinthians 8:4-6)

Notice what Paul states, he only places the Father in the category of the 'one God' and specifically leaves Jesus out, calling him the 'one Lord' and NOT the 'one God. Only the Father is ever referenced as being the 'one God', whereas there have been many persons/beings referred to as GOD like Jesus was, but the term 'God' understood to the original languages have a lesser, secondary meaning of God as when applied God the Father. For example, Moses was called God/Elohim (Exo 7:1), as are angels (Ps 8:5, Heb 2:7), as are men by Jesus (John 10:34), as well as Satan being called 'ho theos' (THE GOD - 2 Cor 4:4). So again, Jesus is God, the same way many others have been and are called GODS, he simply isn't the 'one God' since Paul makes it clear that only the Father is the 'one God'.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
15,205
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I'm one of Jehovah's witnesses and thought I'll quickly address the points you made, for the benefit of others, as some are inaccurate.


FALSE. We accept that Jesus is God, in a certain sense (Isaiah 9:6, John 10:28, Heb 1:8), we simply do not accept him as the 'one God'. Scripture is clear that the 'one God' is the Father, this is according to 1 Cor 8:4-6 among other scriptures, "there is no God but one...just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” 6 there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ...", as we can see by the verse, only the Father is identified as the 'one God', not Jesus.


TRUE, we deny the trinity doctrine.


TRUE, we deny that Jesus rose with the same body he died in, rather, we believe he rose in a 'spirit body', this is based on the fact that scripture explicitly states Jesus rose as a spirit:

"..So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living person.” The last Adam [Jesus] became a life-giving spirit.." (1 Corinthians 15:45)
"..He [Jesus] was put to death in the flesh but
made alive in the spirit.." (1 Peter 3:18)


SOMEWHAT TRUE, Angel is simply a term relating to a spirit person (see Hebrews 1:7), Angels are spirits, Demons are also spirits as well as God himself. Anyone who is not the 'one God' is an angelic/spirit being, one of the only distinction between spirits is between a wicked spirit (fallen angel). Since Jesus is not the 'one God' he is a spirit being, we believe Jesus to be the highest being in the universe both prior and after his coming to earth after the 'one God' the Father.


HALF TRUE. We do not believe in a literal fiery hell, this is because it does not fit in with God's nature of love and because of many scriptures contradicting the notion of a fiery hell, for example, Romans 6:23 states "the wages sin pays is death, but the gift God gives is everlasting life by Christ Jesus our Lord", if the wages sin pay is death, if we die without the gift of eternal life then our sins have been paid by out death, as the verse states, so it goes beyond Scripture and what God has revealed to state God eternally tortures us.


TRUE. We believe only 144,00 will go to heaven, everyone else will remain on the new earth mention in "the new Heaven and new Earth" in Rev 21:1-5. Scripture is clear that the 'meek will inherit the earth' (Matt 5:5), and "The righteous will possess the earth, And they will live forever on it" (Ps 37:29).


FALSE, we do not believe Jesus is Lucifer's brother, it is Mormons that believe this, not JW's.


FALSE, the curse to Adam is still in effect today, hence why we're all still dying since it was death that was the curse.


FALSE, we do not believe in sinless perfectionism, we can only attain perfection by means of Jesus Christ and being brought to perfection by means of him.


I do not understand what you said about the tree, but yes, we believe Jesus death was an equivalent/corresponding sacrifice in relation to what Adam lost, hence the reason why Jesus is called the "last Adam" (see 1 Cor 15:45 and 1 Cor 15:22). We believe Jesus death was to atone for our sins.


FALSE, only those who accept the ransom and worship God will attain eternal life, any unbelievers will not survive.
It boils down to how the word "blood" is used in the parable of "drinking the blood of men". Because of that blood transfusions are forbidden . A wile of Satan the father of lies a murderer from the beginning destroying lives with false doctrines .

While the life of the flesh in in the blood that life is spiritual not seen. We walk by faith. Blood like water reprent the work of the unseen Spirit of Christ that dwells in theses earthen bodies of death .

The revealing of spiritual understanding is missing. It is found in other parables comparing the spiritual like the one I am offering below. .it revels the meaning . men giving there own life in jeopardy of their own .The father and Son working as one.

2 Samuel 23:14-17 And David was then in an hold, and the garrison of the Philistines was then in Bethlehem.
And David longed, and said, Oh that one would give me drink of the water of the well of Bethlehem, which is by the gate! And the three mighty men brake through the host of the Philistines, and drew water out of the well of Bethlehem, that was by the gate, and took it, and brought it to David: nevertheless he would not drink thereof, but poured it out unto the
Lord. And he said, Be it far from me, O Lord, that I should do this: is not this the blood of the men that went in jeopardy of their lives? therefore he would not drink it. These things did these three mighty men.

It reminds me of when John the Baptist was in prison and longed for the gospel. God sending him a desire to drink in the gospel.

Not the literal understanding to the literal. No such thing as the flesh of holiness. Spirit of holiness .Yes.

Romans 1:3-5 King James Version (KJV) Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead: By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

God is not a man as us. He left in a corrupted body .The body he born born in. It did not become a spiritual body. No man has received the promise of that body. which is neither male or female, Jew nor gentile. As sons of God we are not what we will be. Some did know Christ after the flesh. Today and forever more. That is simply not possible. Eternal
Eternal God remains without mother or father beginning of Spirt life or end thereof.

Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. 2 Corinthians5:16

The one time promised demonstration is over. Don't make the same mistake that Peter the denier made. Hoping the flesh of John (holiness of dead things) would never die. (John 21)
 

NWL

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2012
433
9
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It boils down to how the word "blood" is used in the parable of "drinking the blood of men". Because of that blood transfusions are forbidden . A wile of Satan the father of lies a murderer from the beginning destroying lives with false doctrines .

While the life of the flesh in in the blood that life is spiritual not seen. We walk by faith. Blood like water reprent the work of the unseen Spirit of Christ that dwells in theses earthen bodies of death .

The revealing of spiritual understanding is missing. It is found in other parables comparing the spiritual like the one I am offering below. .it revels the meaning . men giving there own life in jeopardy of their own .The father and Son working as one.

2 Samuel 23:14-17 And David was then in an hold, and the garrison of the Philistines was then in Bethlehem.
And David longed, and said, Oh that one would give me drink of the water of the well of Bethlehem, which is by the gate! And the three mighty men brake through the host of the Philistines, and drew water out of the well of Bethlehem, that was by the gate, and took it, and brought it to David: nevertheless he would not drink thereof, but poured it out unto the
Lord. And he said, Be it far from me, O Lord, that I should do this: is not this the blood of the men that went in jeopardy of their lives? therefore he would not drink it. These things did these three mighty men.

It reminds me of when John the Baptist was in prison and longed for the gospel. God sending him a desire to drink in the gospel.

Not the literal understanding to the literal. No such thing as the flesh of holiness. Spirit of holiness .Yes.

Romans 1:3-5 King James Version (KJV) Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead: By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

God is not a man as us. He left in a corrupted body .The body he born born in. It did not become a spiritual body. No man has received the promise of that body. which is neither male or female, Jew nor gentile. As sons of God we are not what we will be. Some did know Christ after the flesh. Today and forever more. That is simply not possible. Eternal
Eternal God remains without mother or father beginning of Spirt life or end thereof.

Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. 2 Corinthians5:16

The one time promised demonstration is over. Don't make the same mistake that Peter the denier made. Hoping the flesh of John (holiness of dead things) would never die. (John 21)
Jehovah's Witnesses are not forbidden to take blood transfusions, nor do they base it on the word "blood" used in the parable of "drinking the blood of men". They are told it is up to their Christian conscience whether or not accepting a blood transfusion goes contrary to God's word. The main passage they use in relation to Gods command regarding blood is Acts 15:28, that states, "For the holy spirit and we ourselves have favored adding no further burden to you except these necessary things: 29 to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols, from blood, from what is strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you carefully keep yourselves from these things, you will prosper. Good health to you!”.

As you can see, it was commanded by the HS and the Christian apostles in the first century to 'abstain from blood', this was no doubt stated based on the strick OT laws regarding the handling, eating of blood and sacredness of blood.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
15,205
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TRUE. We believe only 144,00 will go to heaven, everyone else will remain on the new earth mention in "the new Heaven and new Earth" in Rev 21:1-5. Scripture is clear that the 'meek will inherit the earth' (Matt 5:5), and "The righteous will possess the earth, And they will live forever on it" (Ps 37:29).
The metaphor 144, 000 (all of the redeemed) a number no man could count. The golden measure of faith..

It is used by those who must walk by sight after the temporal things seen . The Mormons who destroy the meaning of the word apostle has assigned it to that kind of Idea. The ruling elders.( venerable ones) They ran out of numbers just as did the JWs'

Christian walk by faith that are not of the number as those who comparing themselves seen to the same .(no faith needed )

2 Corinthians 10:12 For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.
 

NWL

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2012
433
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If you do not believe Jesus is God, as the scriptures clearly testify, then you reject the Father also, and are none of His. The (false) Jesus that the JWs proclaim is not the only true God (by their admission), and therefore has neither power to forgive sin nor resurrect from the grave. As JWs deny that Jesus Christ was resurrected and ascended to Heaven, is this not a denial that Jesus Christ came in the flesh? Scriptures teach that such belief is of antichrist.

1 John 4:1
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
I forgot to address the other two points you made, you said, "The (false) Jesus that the JWs proclaim is not the only true God (by their admission), and therefore has neither power to forgive sin nor resurrect from the grave". Jesus didn't need to be God to forgive sins or to resurrect people from the dead, the apostles were all empowered to be able to forgive sins and also raise people from the dead, the ability to do so is a God-given ability, therefore, if the apostles as men were able to be empowered to perform such feats then there is no reason that Jesus needed to be God to perform the same miracles, since the Father, who is the 'one God' would have simply empowered Jesus to do so, the same way Jesus empowered the apostles to do so.

"..After saying this he [Jesus] blew on them [the apostles] and said to them: “Receive holy spirit. 23 If you forgive the sins of anyone, they are forgiven; if you retain those of anyone, they are retained..” (John 20:22, 23)

"..Peter then put everyone outside, and kneeling down, he prayed. Then turning toward the body, he said: “Tabʹi·tha, rise!” She opened her eyes, and as she caught sight of Peter, she sat up.." (Acts 9:40)

Below is my previous post to you in regards to the same post, in case it got lost in the mess I created.

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JW's and I do believe Jesus is God, but in a certain sense, scripture makes it clear that he is (John 20:28, Is 9:6, Hebrews 1:8), we simply do not accept him as the 'one God'. As I've already stated on this thread, we only see the Father as the 'one God', Paul himself does not include Jesus in the category of the 'one God', this fact cannot be ignored:

"..there is no God but one. 5 For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” 6 there is actually to us one God, the Father...and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ.." (1 Corinthians 8:4-6)

Notice what Paul states, he only places the Father in the category of the 'one God' and specifically leaves Jesus out, calling him the 'one Lord' and NOT the 'one God. Only the Father is ever referenced as being the 'one God', whereas there have been many persons/beings referred to as GOD like Jesus was, but the term 'God' understood to the original languages have a lesser, secondary meaning of God as when applied God the Father. For example, Moses was called God/Elohim (Exo 7:1), as are angels (Ps 8:5, Heb 2:7), as are men by Jesus (John 10:34), as well as Satan being called 'ho theos' (THE GOD - 2 Cor 4:4). So again, Jesus is God, the same way many others have been and are called GODS, he simply isn't the 'one God' since Paul makes it clear that only the Father is the 'one God'.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
15,205
1,427
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Jehovah's Witnesses are not forbidden to take blood transfusions, nor do they base it on the word "blood" used in the parable of "drinking the blood of men". They are told it is up to their Christian conscience whether or not accepting a blood transfusion goes contrary to God's word. The main passage they use in relation to Gods command regarding blood is Acts 15:28, that states, "For the holy spirit and we ourselves have favored adding no further burden to you except these necessary things: 29 to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols, from blood, from what is strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you carefully keep yourselves from these things, you will prosper. Good health to you!”.

As you can see, it was commanded by the HS and the Christian apostles in the first century to 'abstain from blood', this was no doubt stated based on the strick OT laws regarding the handling, eating of blood and sacredness of blood.
The old tesetemmt was in respect to animals. Pour out the corrupted at the base .. We are speaking of the blood of mankind. It must be poured out to show spiritual life was given .Just as with the demonstration with Jesus .literal blood void spirit life returns to the dust where it came for, No such thing as born again dust.

Drinking or taking it in through a transfusion 6 of one half dozen of another? Why idolize flesh and blood the temporal seen? Jesus the Son of man said His flesh and blood profits for zero.

So then the venerable ones give permission for a transfusion ? Why would they? If its not a proven doctrine.?
 

Reformyourself

Well-known member
Apr 29, 2020
777
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Jehovah's Witnesses are not forbidden to take blood transfusions, nor do they base it on the word "blood" used in the parable of "drinking the blood of men". They are told it is up to their Christian conscience whether or not accepting a blood transfusion goes contrary to God's word. The main passage they use in relation to Gods command regarding blood is Acts 15:28, that states, "For the holy spirit and we ourselves have favored adding no further burden to you except these necessary things: 29 to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols, from blood, from what is strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you carefully keep yourselves from these things, you will prosper. Good health to you!”.

As you can see, it was commanded by the HS and the Christian apostles in the first century to 'abstain from blood', this was no doubt stated based on the strick OT laws regarding the handling, eating of blood and sacredness of blood.
In the beginning was The Word, and The Word was with G_D and The Word Was G_D-Jesus is the image of the invisible G_D-this can only be revealed by The Lord, so will pray that He reveals this to you dear 🙏