Rapture= false teaching

MahogonySnail · Feb 12, 2010

I think it really does say people will be plucked up by some external force. That's what the word for "caught up" implies. But the question is , is that what it's supposed to mean.

Would you be partial to the idea that we will be on the earth as it burns up? : At least that's what this verse seems to indicate "the day" i.e. the day of the Lord:

1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Perhaps the "catching up", is our souls flying up to heaven to meet the Lord in the air , after we've been killed by the fire.

MahogonySnail · Feb 12, 2010

Apparently the early church writers never used rapture in their writings they used the words resurrection for dead saints and translation (as with Enoch) for living saints. Rapture really is one of those words that didn't become popular in christianity until 300 or so years ago. The difference is the word rapture carries with it the whole stigma or people flying up into space leaving chaos behind and it is mostly a word connected with pre-tribulation events.

walt2000 · Feb 12, 2010

No Rapture Here.walt2000

VW · Feb 12, 2010

Zilla64007 said:

Yes, that is true, but it is not a resurrection if you are not dead.

HumbleSaint · Feb 12, 2010

And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after ths the judgment. Hebrews 9:27

According to this verse we will have to face death once. So I'm not 100% sure how the very end will play out. Or how we will die.

VW · Feb 12, 2010

HumbleSaint said:

Again, I will quote our Lord. "I am the resurrection, and the life; he who believes in Me shall live even if he dies, and everyone who lives and believe in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?"

I asked the Spirit for years to explain this statement to me, and it is that everyone who lives and believes in Jesus will never die. I believe.

HumbleSaint · Feb 12, 2010

VW said:

Thats true, when we come to Christ we die and are reborn in the Spirit. Didn't think about that verse.

thewordwatcher · Feb 12, 2010

I have studied of rapture few years and I have found many flaws in that teachings. Nevertheless in my research for the Rapture, all is clear in the Bible, but most understanding is wrong and many scriptures are misapplied and have been wrongly understood.

Many are saying, that the Rapture theory has appeared in XIX century.

Correct!

Because the Bible was in Latin and was not very popular. Propagator was John Nelson Darby and nowherehe taught, that the Rapture is pre tribulation.

The biggest problem in subject of Rapture is a lack of understanding of the concept of God's Kingdom on Earth.

God's Kingdom will be on Earth and that is the key to correct understand of the Rapture.

As Daniel prophesied, the stone truck the statue and filedl the whole Earth. That means - God's Kingdom will replace all kingdoms of the satan' system.

Second problem is recognition of two flocks. John 10:16. Small flock and Great Crowd.

Most likely 144.000 is the small flock. The Bride of Christ.

Great Crowd is prophesied in Ezechiel 37 chapter and that prophecy has never been fulfilled.

Now we can explain the Rapture. Also the Great Crowd in Revelation is the same Crowd from Ezechiel 37 chapter.

Without proper understanding above, we can't understand the rapture.

One huge problem - sudden change in twinkling in the eye.

Huge misapplying of the scriptures. Yes, change will occur... in the air! Quick!

But... that's AFTER the rapture!

Chosen ones will be taken into air and THAN changed rapidly.

Before Rapture will be some time, but not much. That time is clear described in

That clearly means that the Rapture will happened quick, but not in twinkling in the eye.
So car could be stopped, maybe plane could change the pilot after landing, who knows how Christ will organize the Rapture, but decision will have to made quick, like in example of Lot's wife.

No more time and no less. THAN, when taken in the air, will be change made in twinkling of the eye.

Clearly two stages. Taking and changing after taking from Earth!

Stay tuned, I have more, much more to say!

VW · Feb 13, 2010

thewordwatcher said:

I have studied of rapture few years and I have found many flaws in that teachings. Nevertheless in my research for the Rapture, all is clear in the Bible, but most understanding is wrong and many scriptures are misapplied and have been wrongly understood.

Many are saying, that the Rapture theory has appeared in XIX century.

Correct!

Because the Bible was in Latin and was not very popular. Propagator was John Nelson Darby and nowherehe taught, that the Rapture is pre tribulation.

The biggest problem in subject of Rapture is a lack of understanding of the concept of God's Kingdom on Earth.

God's Kingdom will be on Earth and that is the key to correct understand of the Rapture.

As Daniel prophesied, the stone truck the statue and filedl the whole Earth. That means - God's Kingdom will replace all kingdoms of the satan' system.

Second problem is recognition of two flocks. John 10:16. Small flock and Great Crowd.

Most likely 144.000 is the small flock. The Bride of Christ.

Great Crowd is prophesied in Ezechiel 37 chapter and that prophecy has never been fulfilled.

Now we can explain the Rapture. Also the Great Crowd in Revelation is the same Crowd from Ezechiel 37 chapter.

Without proper understanding above, we can't understand the rapture.

One huge problem - sudden change in twinkling in the eye.

Huge misapplying of the scriptures. Yes, change will occur... in the air! Quick!

But... that's AFTER the rapture!

Chosen ones will be taken into air and THAN changed rapidly.

Before Rapture will be some time, but not much. That time is clear described in

That clearly means that the Rapture will happened quick, but not in twinkling in the eye.
So car could be stopped, maybe plane could change the pilot after landing, who knows how Christ will organize the Rapture, but decision will have to made quick, like in example of Lot's wife.

No more time and no less. THAN, when taken in the air, will be change made in twinkling of the eye.

Clearly two stages. Taking and changing after taking from Earth!

Stay tuned, I have more, much more to say!

Sounds good except that the 144,000 are not the bride of Christ. We are the bride of Christ, and the temple of the Lord, and even better, the New Jerusalem, which comes down from God out of heaven.

VW · Feb 13, 2010

HumbleSaint said:

Yep, and when this body we inhabit passes away, we do not die, but rather go to be with the Lord then. We join the great cloud of witnesses in heaven who are observing those who are His in the world. Jesus was resurrected, and we have been raised up with and in Him. It was written that after He was crucified, many graves were opened, and many of the dead saints of old walked again.

I do not worry to much about the rapture. I used to think about it all of the time. It was my escape plan, my way to get out of the mess I had made of my life, and the mess that the world was becoming. Now, I do not need to escape, my life is His life, and not a mess. And the world, well it is a mess, but I am not a part of it. I wait, anxiously, for His return, to see Him with these eyes, so that I will be like Him, just as He is now. I hope for this with all that I am. Why? Because I see His holiness, and how much He needs to cover for me, and I want to be worthy of His love, to be as He is, righteous and pure and holy, in my body. I am despairing of the sin that dwells in me, and want it gone. I want to put off this corruption, and put on incorruptability. I want to put on immortality. I want to put on my heavenly body, fashioned after His body. Not for myself, but for Him. When this happens is not a concern any more. I just wait for it to happen, with great hope in Him.

oopsies · Feb 13, 2010

greatkraw said:

Is he playing the victim now?

Zilla64007 · Feb 13, 2010

and you're just looking to start a fight now, oopsies...

thewordwatcher · Feb 13, 2010

I have noticed, that the most agree what I have said so far. That's great.

The next problem. The big one!

The most think, that Lucifer will fake the Rapture.

Wrong!!! He cant!

How he could fake it? We have to understand, that he can't 'rapture' those, whom God has chosen to snatch! Because those ones are under special Christ protection and Satan and his demons so far can't touch the Chosen Ones!

They can't throw spells and harm Chosen Ones to be raptured!

If he will try to 'rapture' fake Christians, like Benny Hill or some similar kind of luciferians, no decent Christian will believe that's Yahshuah's work!

As simple as that! That's why he is going mad, because he can't stop it and he can't fake it! It's beyond his control. God is still in charge and Satan has limited power.

It's that bad for him, that he can't use his power to establish Antichrist with demonic power. He will be able to do it only that, when Christ will let him do it!

That gives us an idea, who is in reality in charge and who is pulling the strings.

Satan will have to have Yahshuah's permit to further test us!

Another important thing.

Not many realize what is Satan REAL goal.

He wants NWO and Temple and his last King.

But... why!?

Some will say - he want's to force all of us to worship him.

Yes, to some extend. Why he want's us to worship him?

That's the most important question, which I will answer, and you will be the judge if my answer is a correct one.

How he became Satan? He killed Adam and Eve using... Almighty God. That's why Yahshuah has called him a murderer.

Satan has caused the first couple to die from God's hand. He manipulated God to achieve his murderous plan. They died but God had better idea. He let them have an offspring, Abel and Kain, and more...

Than he repeated the same trick and nearly had killed the whole humankind not realizing, that Noah was still perfectly human. The whole family had the perfect DNA!

Lucifer lost again!

He was causing idolatry and many other sins, just to provoke God to kill His children because Gods law is unbreakable. That's why Satan is using it to harm us.

Yes! He wanted to be worshiped by Christ. Both they could be great challenge to God's authority and wisdom. But he shot himself in the foot. he has sacrificed Christ not expecting His resurrection and what had followed it. The biggest power in the universe.

Than Satan knew he has lost everything and any hope.

Hi doesn't care about us, and our worship to him. He is on the death row.

He want's again kill most of us using God's hands by forcing us to worship image of the Beast!

Read again. Not worship him but the image of the Beast!

Whoever will, will die from hands of God.

That's his plan!

And the Rapture is a huge problem for him. That's why he fights any idea of the Rapture, because he can't fake it!

If the Rupture will occur, many of us will strengthen our faith to an incredible level.
The Great Crowd will be result of it and other events. When Lucifer will get a permit to use his powers, God will display His power too! We will hear three messages of three angels. Babylon the Great will be gone!

There will be a work of two witnesses. All of this will strengthen Christian and they will show a huge resistance to Satan's pressures.

greatkraw · Feb 13, 2010

thewordwatcher said:

I have noticed, that the most agree what I have said so far. That's great.

The next problem. The big one!

The most think, that Lucifer will fake the Rapture.

Wrong!!! He cant!

How he could fake it? We have to understand, that he can't 'rapture' those, whom God has chosen to snatch! Because those ones are under special Christ protection and Satan and his demons so far can't touch the Chosen Ones!

They can't throw spells and harm Chosen Ones to be raptured!

If he will try to 'rapture' fake Christians, like Benny Hill or some similar kind of luciferians, no decent Christian will believe that's Yahshuah's work!

As simple as that! That's why he is going mad, because he can't stop it and he can't fake it! It's beyond his control. God is still in charge and Satan has limited power.

It's that bad for him, that he can't use his power to establish Antichrist with demonic power. He will be able to do it only that, when Christ will let him do it!

That gives us an idea, who is in reality in charge and who is pulling the strings.

Satan will have to have Yahshuah's permit to further test us!

Another important thing.

Not many realize what is Satan REAL goal.

He wants NWO and Temple and his last King.

But... why!?

Some will say - he want's to force all of us to worship him.

Yes, to some extend. Why he want's us to worship him?

That's the most important question, which I will answer, and you will be the judge if my answer is a correct one.

How he became Satan? He killed Adam and Eve using... Almighty God. That's why Yahshuah has called him a murderer.

Satan has caused the first couple to die from God's hand. He manipulated God to achieve his murderous plan. They died but God had better idea. He let them have an offspring, Abel and Kain, and more...

Than he repeated the same trick and nearly had killed the whole humankind not realizing, that Noah was still perfectly human. The whole family had the perfect DNA!

Lucifer lost again!

He was causing idolatry and many other sins, just to provoke God to kill His children because Gods law is unbreakable. That's why Satan is using it to harm us.

Yes! He wanted to be worshiped by Christ. Both they could be great challenge to God's authority and wisdom. But he shot himself in the foot. he has sacrificed Christ not expecting His resurrection and what had followed it. The biggest power in the universe.

Than Satan knew he has lost everything and any hope.

Hi doesn't care about us, and our worship to him. He is on the death row.

He want's again kill most of us using God's hands by forcing us to worship image of the Beast!

Read again. Not worship him but the image of the Beast!

Whoever will, will die from hands of God.

That's his plan!

And the Rapture is a huge problem for him. That's why he fights any idea of the Rapture, because he can't fake it!

If the Rupture will occur, many of us will strengthen our faith to an incredible level.
The Great Crowd will be result of it and other events. When Lucifer will get a permit to use his powers, God will display His power too! We will hear three messages of three angels. Babylon the Great will be gone!

There will be a work of two witnesses. All of this will strengthen Christian and they will show a huge resistance to Satan's pressures.

actually this is a good point

Satan cant fake the rapture

but when it does take place he has to explain it

so........................................

he has 2 different stories set up

one to explain the the unsaved pagans what has happened (ie flying saucers)

and one to tell the unsaved churchgoers what happend(ie satans trick)

MahogonySnail · Feb 13, 2010

satan can translate people too. Remember he took Jesus up to a high mountain to see all the cities of the world. But he can only take one person at a time.

walt2000 · Feb 13, 2010

VW said:

Are You saying that 144,000 are not the bride of Christ ?
and the temple of the Lord, and even better, the New Jerusalem, which comes down from God out of heaven.[/quote]

THIS IS WHY YOU NEED TO KNOW A LITTLE GERMATRIA AND kNOW A LITTLE ABOUT A ALAGORY
The whore is what man made of the true word (ie.the false prophet)of God ,He cleans the woman, and dresses her ,and she comes down as the bride,The holy city now.And most of all Thunder no. 7 calls itself a Whore ,in Re.17/1+.When we get to the White horse it becomes Divine.

Look at the holy city =------------------------------------------------------------------------------
12 gates------------------------------------------Pearls--------------------------------------------12+-----------------------------------------------wide,--------------------------------------------
12+-----------------------------------------------high,---------------------------------------------
12+-----------------------------------------------foundations,--------------------------------------
12x12 or 144--------------------------------------thickness of the walls.City is based on the no. 12

Witnesses are 144,000 ,that is 12 the perfect no.
12x12 is an amplification of the perfect no.x

1000 = mega no.
There for 12x12 , 1000 = a the perfect no. x the perfect no. x 1000
= a multiple mega perfect no. x a multiple mega perfect no. x a mega no.
Enter you and me ,Bab. Pardon the pun.

This is my opinion using Gemartria,only ,and is not adding ,this is what I think it means it's interp. is .
You might have a different interp.
Makeing the whore ,into the holy city, Divine with Christ ,for giveness ,Some one could probably make it sound better.
walt2000

thewordwatcher · Feb 13, 2010

Of course he can. But, what is important, he can't fake the Rapture.

Now, the biggest mistake the Rapture believers are making. All comes from wrong understanding of earthly Kingdom of God.

What is important - the Rapture is a snatching not the whole church - that is not logical at all. That idea is killing the God's Kingdom on Earth.

The Rapture is only for the Chosen Ones, IMHO the Bride of Christ, His most loved part of obedient followers, whom He wants to spare a tribulation and sorrow associated with Great Tribulation.

It's incomprehensible, that Yahshuah has suffered Himself, all His apostles are suffered a violent death, except apostle John, but Christ has chosen some brethren to spare from these!

Another point is, they will be kings with Him and they will be judging even fallen angels. They will achieve an immortality in the same way Christ has had achieved immortality. (Second death will have no power over them)

Yahshuah will return with them to execute the judgment on the whole world of Satan!

And that's where most Christian has failed to see the real Rapture. That's where is the core of the Rapture.

Do you see it all ready?

There will be two coming of Christ.

1. Invisible to the world - to Rapture Chosen Ones.

2. Visible return for all to see - to execute with Chosen Kings the judgment on Satan and his world, rescuing the Great Crowd from Great Tribulation.

That's where the biggest secret of the Rapture is!!!

Some verses are talking about nearly private Rapture. Some verses are talking about glorious coming with raptured early Chosen Ones - Kings.

So it is is good news and bad news.

There will be the Rapture. That's the good news.

Bad news is to those like us, most of us will be here under rules of the last king. They are calling him Antichrist, however the Bible never foretells the Antichrist. Son of Perdition is not called Antichrist by the Bible!

The Bible prophesied the appearance of the last king, which will have a direct power from Lucifer. That king will not claim, that he will be a Messiahs.

He will exalt himself claiming to to be God Almighty. But that is another subject.

The Rapture will be very up building news for all Christians, because it will be a very visible sign of disappearances of many brothers, the most Christians saw as true followers of Christ.

They will be sure, that the Rapture and God has chosen few selected most loved brothers to be co kings with Him.

Another great thing will be.... the resurrection of faithful ones, also Chosen - those ones who were also in the same position as those, who will be still alive during the Rapture.

Yahshuah will resurrect Chosen Ones, who died before the Rapture. Those resurrected ones and those taken alive are the same Chosen Brethren, Christ beloved Bride of Kings of God's Kingdom.

Lucifer can't fake the resurrection!

That's why his forces are so vigorously fighting with any news about the Rapture, which drives him mad!

That's why we see so many ideas, wrong teachings about the Rapture, etc. because most likely the Rapture is the first miracle of Christ on Earth since he left us nearly 2000 years ago.

After that He will give a permission to Lucifer to test the Great Crowd.

Many pastors are serving Lucifer and denying vigorously the Rapture!

During the GT Yahshuah will open eyes many people to the Truth and all of them will be able to see God's power, God's judgment and much smaller power of Satan, who will be loosing constantly every battle in this war.

That's why whoever will worship the image of the Beast, will be executed by God, because such person will sin against His Holy Spirit, knowing the real power of God.

That's why God's judgment will be so severe, because He will not leave doubts for remaining on Earth Christians, who is He, what kind of power He has, and He can resurrect anyone killed by Satan' forces.

That's why so decisive judgment of Yahshuah for worshiping of the image of the Beast.

To some of us will be given an ultimate choice.

Die from hands of luciferians and be resurrected by God.

Die from hand of God without any chances of resurrection at all.

All of this makes the perfect sens and is fully supported by God's Word!

HalleluJah!

VW · Feb 13, 2010

walt2000 said:

THIS IS WHY YOU NEED TO KNOW A LITTLE GERMATRIA AND kNOW A LITTLE ABOUT A ALAGORY
The whore is what man made of the true word (ie.the false prophet)of God ,He cleans the woman, and dresses her ,and she comes down as the bride,The holy city now.And most of all Thunder no. 7 calls itself a Whore ,in Re.17/1+.When we get to the White horse it becomes Divine.

Look at the holy city =------------------------------------------------------------------------------
12 gates------------------------------------------Pearls--------------------------------------------12+-----------------------------------------------wide,--------------------------------------------
12+-----------------------------------------------high,---------------------------------------------
12+-----------------------------------------------foundations,--------------------------------------
12x12 or 144--------------------------------------thickness of the walls.City is based on the no. 12

Witnesses are 144,000 ,that is 12 the perfect no.
12x12 is an amplification of the perfect no.x

1000 = mega no.
There for 12x12 , 1000 = a the perfect no. x the perfect no. x 1000
= a multiple mega perfect no. x a multiple mega perfect no. x a mega no.
Enter you and me ,Bab. Pardon the pun.

This is my opinion using Gemartria,only ,and is not adding ,this is what I think it means it's interp. is .
You might have a different interp.
Makeing the whore ,into the holy city, Divine with Christ ,for giveness ,Some one could probably make it sound better.
walt2000[/quote]

When the angel takes John to see the new city coming down from God, the angel tells John that the new city is the bride.

greatkraw · Feb 14, 2010

walt2000 said:

THIS IS WHY YOU NEED TO KNOW A LITTLE GERMATRIA AND kNOW A LITTLE ABOUT A ALAGORY
The whore is what man made of the true word (ie.the false prophet)of God ,He cleans the woman, and dresses her ,and she comes down as the bride,The holy city now.And most of all Thunder no. 7 calls itself a Whore ,in Re.17/1+.When we get to the White horse it becomes Divine.

Look at the holy city =------------------------------------------------------------------------------
12 gates------------------------------------------Pearls--------------------------------------------12+-----------------------------------------------wide,--------------------------------------------
12+-----------------------------------------------high,---------------------------------------------
12+-----------------------------------------------foundations,--------------------------------------
12x12 or 144--------------------------------------thickness of the walls.City is based on the no. 12

Witnesses are 144,000 ,that is 12 the perfect no.
12x12 is an amplification of the perfect no.x

1000 = mega no.
There for 12x12 , 1000 = a the perfect no. x the perfect no. x 1000
= a multiple mega perfect no. x a multiple mega perfect no. x a mega no.
Enter you and me ,Bab. Pardon the pun.

This is my opinion using Gemartria,only ,and is not adding ,this is what I think it means it's interp. is .
You might have a different interp.
Makeing the whore ,into the holy city, Divine with Christ ,for giveness ,Some one could probably make it sound better.
walt2000

convert a whore into a virgin bride?

no

the text makes it clear that the 144000 are literal descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob

MahogonySnail · Feb 14, 2010

Sorry, the Jehovah's Witnesses take up all those places.

Rapture= false teaching

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