Rapture Top Dogs Admit no Proof Exists

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
It even says in 1 thes 4 AS JESUS DIED AND RESURRECTED SO SHALL WE


I have no idea what you think you proved or how your new verse erases my verses.
What verses are you talking about?

Resurrection is immediate Just like Christ's- we follow His example
Resurrection is of the spirit and never flesh and bones
And no one flies off, the resurrected spirit indwells the believers on earth.
The hearts of believers on earth are the many rooms that Christ went to prepare- take note.
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
What happened to your understanding? Can't you see God is saying they are protected from evil by them dying?

Here again, this is how they are protected:

Isa 57:
1The righteous perish,
and no one takes it to heart;
the devout are taken away,
and no one understands
that the righteous are taken away
to be spared from evil.

2Those who walk uprightly
enter into peace;
they find rest as they lie in death.

Psalm 116:
15Precious in the sight of the LORD
is the death of His saints.
...so basically you are saying you will be protected in the gt by dying.

Oh man...that is hilarious
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
What verses are you talking about?

Resurrection is immediate Just like Christ's- we follow His example
Resurrection is of the spirit and never flesh and bones
And no one flies off, the resurrected spirit indwells the believers on earth.
The hearts of believers on earth are the many rooms that Christ went to prepare- take note.
Wow
Now you deny Christ was bodily resurrected????
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
NO. NOTHING today resembles the gt
:)

The gt is nothing more than death by:

1. Pestilences - Diseases
2. sword - wars
3. Beasts of earth- accidents/animals
4. Famine - Natural disasters

These already covers all the means of death now and even before, nothing new. The only difference in times is that those that die not knowing Christ are lost forever, they have succumbed to antichrist lies. What makes it 'The Great Tribulation' is the time period, satan has been given reign and the strong lies that satan comes with makes it a great tribulation.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
He ASCENDED INTO the sky over a mile.
With the water /judgement happpening below him.

A vivid picture of the church miles above the earths judgement DURING THE GT.
That was very much on earth still. A dove could casually fly out of the ark and back.
What about Lot? You referred to both stories as pertaining to rapture. Lot ran more than a mile from Soddom, i suppose this also shows rapture.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
TOO FUNNY.

they die.

Martyrdom is a real deal.

They die...hello...not protected
Yeah, keep pretending you don't understand

Isa 57:

1The righteous perish,
and no one takes it to heart;
the devout are taken away,
and no one understands

that the righteous are taken away
to be spared from evil.

2Those who walk uprightly
enter into peace;
they find rest as they lie in death.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
Wow
Now you deny Christ was bodily resurrected????
Nope. I don't deny Christ's bodily resurrection, all i'm saying is that it was a sign for a perverse generation who don't get it.
Resurrection is spiritual and immediate- this is the truth.

And if we are to follow Christ's example, our resurrection is also spiritual and immediate. So it is happening even today.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
151
63
And yet in 1 thes the dead are resurrected and RAPTURED ALIVE.

So stop with the false rearranging

Your deal is getting rediculous.

Jesus raptured alive
The 2 witnesses raptured alive
THE ENTIRE BODY OF CHRIST BOTH RESURRECTED AND THOSE OF US ALIVE...RAPTURED ALIVE
Prior to the resurrection of 67-70 AD, everyone from Adam until then were in Hades "sleeping" or "resting." Enoch and Elijah were the only exceptions. The righteous were sent to Abraham's bosom, the good side of Hades, while the wicked were in torture across the gulf in the bad side of Hades. When Christ died, He went to Hades to minister to those down there. 3 days later, Christ was resurrected out of Hades. At this point, Christ was a spiritual being but was not yet glorified. That happened when He returned to heaven.

Christ returned in 67 AD and resurrected the saints out of Hades and took them to heaven. If you want to call that a rapture, I can accept that usage.

No passage teaches that living people are suddenly transformed into spiritual beings and whisked off to heaven. That's your nonsensical view. Your view directly contradicts Heb 9:27.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
Keep dreaming

You also tried to sidestep bodily resurrection
No body resurrection. Flesh and bones can not inherit the kingdom of God.

Rapture verses?! I don't think so.

Paul at one time said he will be among the dead who will be resurrected and presented together with his listeners, and in another part he counts himself among those who will be alive when the dead in Christ are resurrected and caught together with him and others who are alive. So?!
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
151
63
I don't know about dead wrong. Maybe different ?

He is coming back as Eternal Spirit. Only one outward fleshly demonstration was promised

To make sure we understand the timing of when that mansion was complete. . . the time of reformation. He said "It is finished". an earthquake and the work of the unseen Spirt of God tore the veil from the top, to represent heaven, to the bottom, to represent earth . the graves were opened and they arose.

The way was opened getting the things seen out of the way. Tens of thousands of Old testament saints arose and were witnessed by the many angels in heaven.

2 Corinthians 5:7(For we walk by faith, not by sight:)

John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

Resurrected alive dead asleep waiting for the new bodies on the last day .The wake up call. "Rise"


51 Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split, 52 and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; 53 and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many.

Doesn't say tens of thousands. It just says many. This appears to be an isolated event, limited to the vicinity of Jerusalem. It appears that the graves were opened at the time Christ died but the dead didn't rise until AFTER His resurrection. They appeared, but apparently didn't stay. These must be the firstfruits of the resurrection.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
And yet in 1 thes the dead are resurrected and RAPTURED ALIVE.

So stop with the false rearranging
Is 1 Thess 4 part of these rapture verses? Ok, pay attention.

1 Thess 4:
13Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death,c so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope. 14For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him.

15By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. 17After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.

18Therefore encourage one another with these words.

1. God will raise Jesus and bring Him together with the dead in Christ
2. Paul is counting himself among those that are alive for he says "we who are alive..."
3. The risen dead are caught up together with Paul and the rest of the living

Now listen carefully to Paul again:

2 Cor 4:
10We always carry around in our body the death of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may also be revealed in our body. 11For we who are alive are always being given over to death for Jesus’ sake, so that his life may also be revealed in our mortal body. 12So then, death is at work in us, but life is at work in you.

13It is written: “I believed; therefore I have spoken.” b Since we have that same spirit of c faith, we also believe and therefore speak, 14because we know that the one who raised the Lord Jesus from the dead will also raise us with Jesus and present us with you to himself. 15All this is for your benefit, so that the grace that is reaching more and more people may cause thanksgiving to overflow to the glory of God.

1. God who raised Jesus will also raise Paul and others and be presented with Jesus and those that are living
2. Paul is counting himself among the dead who will be raised
3. Risen Paul (and others) will be presented together with Jesus and his living listeners for their benefit.

Conclusion
1. Resurrection seems to be a continuous event rather than a single mega event. Paul once counts himself among the risen dead and in another place counts himself among the living

2. Caught in the air does not mean flying off rather the spirits of the risen dead indwelling the living for their benefit. Now, if the spirits of the dead saints rise to space, how will that benefit the living?
Peter puts it clearly how his dying will help his listeners (2 Pet 1:13-15)
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
Is 1 Thess 4 part of these rapture verses? Ok, pay attention.

1 Thess 4:
13Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death,c so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope. 14For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him.

15By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. 17After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.

18Therefore encourage one another with these words.

1. God will raise Jesus and bring Him together with the dead in Christ
2. Paul is counting himself among those that are alive for he says "we who are alive..."
3. The risen dead are caught up together with Paul and the rest of the living

Now listen carefully to Paul again:

2 Cor 4:
10We always carry around in our body the death of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may also be revealed in our body. 11For we who are alive are always being given over to death for Jesus’ sake, so that his life may also be revealed in our mortal body. 12So then, death is at work in us, but life is at work in you.

13It is written: “I believed; therefore I have spoken.” b Since we have that same spirit of c faith, we also believe and therefore speak, 14because we know that the one who raised the Lord Jesus from the dead will also raise us with Jesus and present us with you to himself. 15All this is for your benefit, so that the grace that is reaching more and more people may cause thanksgiving to overflow to the glory of God.

1. God who raised Jesus will also raise Paul and others and be presented with Jesus and those that are living
2. Paul is counting himself among the dead who will be raised
3. Risen Paul (and others) will be presented together with Jesus and his living listeners for their benefit.

Conclusion
1. Resurrection seems to be a continuous event rather than a single mega event. Paul once counts himself among the risen dead and in another place counts himself among the living

2. Caught in the air does not mean flying off rather the spirits of the risen dead indwelling the living for their benefit. Now, if the spirits of the dead saints rise to space, how will that benefit the living?
Peter puts it clearly how his dying will help his listeners (2 Pet 1:13-15)
1 Thess 4:13-18 and 2 Cor 4:10-15 are talking about one and the same thing. If one is talking about the rapture, the other should also be talking about the rapture. So, @Absolutely, i have added you more rapture verses but i would really appreciate if you explained how 2 Cor 4 is talking about rapture.

What i know, Paul in 1 Thess 4 is basically telling the Thessalonians not to worry about the dead for they will rise and be presented together with them (caught in the air with them) and in 2 Cor 4, Paul is basically telling the Corinthians that himself and others will die, be resurrected and be presented together with them (caught in the air with them) all for their benefit.
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
That was very much on earth still. A dove could casually fly out of the ark and back.
What about Lot? You referred to both stories as pertaining to rapture. Lot ran more than a mile from Soddom, i suppose this also shows rapture.
Nobody sees a plane with 120 passengers, a mile into the sky ,as being on the earth.

You are being forced to get crafty with your theories

Face it. Noah left the earth and lot left sodom.

Neither stayed.

You can not change that or escape it. Pun intended.

BOTH PREJUDGEMENT.

See thats the thing. When your doctrine is right,scripture agrees and reveals even more.
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
1 Thess 4:13-18 and 2 Cor 4:10-15 are talking about one and the same thing. If one is talking about the rapture, the other should also be talking about the rapture. So, @Absolutely, i have added you more rapture verses but i would really appreciate if you explained how 2 Cor 4 is talking about rapture.

What i know, Paul in 1 Thess 4 is basically telling the Thessalonians not to worry about the dead for they will rise and be presented together with them (caught in the air with them) and in 2 Cor 4, Paul is basically telling the Corinthians that himself and others will die, be resurrected and be presented together with them (caught in the air with them) all for their benefit.
None of those verses conflicts with pretrib rapture.
Some things are agreeable to both doctrines.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
Another thing rapturists need to know is:

1. Heaven is not any other place but the hearts of believers here on Earth, this is where God dwells and Has been promising all over the OT to prepare and have a holy dwelling among the people.

2. The rooms that Christ went to prepare are the hearts of believers here on Earth. Christ, after telling the disciples He is going to prepare rooms in heaven, He tells them that He is coming into them (as the advocate) shortly.

3. No OT prophet saw this rapture thing but most of them saw and prophesied about resurrection. But Isaiah goes further and talks about these rooms here on Earth:

Isa 26:
19But your dead will live, Lord;
their bodies will rise—
let those who dwell in the dust
wake up and shout for joy—
your dew is like the dew of the morning;
the earth will give birth to her dead.

20Go, my people, enter your rooms
and shut the doors behind you;

hide yourselves for a little while
until his wrath has passed by.

21See, the Lord is coming out of his dwelling
to punish the people of the earth for their sins.
The earth will disclose the blood shed on it;
the earth will conceal its slain no longer.
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
Prior to the resurrection of 67-70 AD, everyone from Adam until then were in Hades "sleeping" or "resting." Enoch and Elijah were the only exceptions. The righteous were sent to Abraham's bosom, the good side of Hades, while the wicked were in torture across the gulf in the bad side of Hades. When Christ died, He went to Hades to minister to those down there. 3 days later, Christ was resurrected out of Hades. At this point, Christ was a spiritual being but was not yet glorified. That happened when He returned to heaven.

Christ returned in 67 AD and resurrected the saints out of Hades and took them to heaven. If you want to call that a rapture, I can accept that usage.

No passage teaches that living people are suddenly transformed into spiritual beings and whisked off to heaven. That's your nonsensical view. Your view directly contradicts Heb 9:27.
Lol
You completely miss what is so plain.

ALL THOSE ONES RESURRECTED except Lazurus were taken bodily and alive to heaven.

Jesus = the same exact thing.

How in the world do you miss that????

Beyond that Elijah and Enoch were taken alive and never died.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
Nobody sees a plane with 120 passengers, a mile into the sky ,as being on the earth.

You are being forced to get crafty with your theories

Face it. Noah left the earth and lot left sodom.

Neither stayed.

You can not change that or escape it. Pun intended.

BOTH PREJUDGEMENT.

See thats the thing. When your doctrine is right,scripture agrees and reveals even more.
Non of them left Earth.

People can view stars and other planets millions of miles away right from the comfort of their living room here on earth.

Shadrack/Meshack /Abednego stayed in the fire- so?!

Still no rapture in the scriptures.
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
Another thing rapturists need to know is:

1. Heaven is not any other place but the hearts of believers here on Earth, this is where God dwells and Has been promising all over the OT to prepare and have a holy dwelling among the people.

2. The rooms that Christ went to prepare are the hearts of believers here on Earth. Christ, after telling the disciples He is going to prepare rooms in heaven, He tells them that He is coming into them (as the advocate) shortly.

3. No OT prophet saw this rapture thing but most of them saw and prophesied about resurrection. But Isaiah goes further and talks about these rooms here on Earth:

Isa 26:
19But your dead will live, Lord;
their bodies will rise—
let those who dwell in the dust
wake up and shout for joy—
your dew is like the dew of the morning;
the earth will give birth to her dead.

20Go, my people, enter your rooms
and shut the doors behind you;

hide yourselves for a little while
until his wrath has passed by.

21See, the Lord is coming out of his dwelling
to punish the people of the earth for their sins.
The earth will disclose the blood shed on it;
the earth will conceal its slain no longer.
That my friend is beyond me.

There is a heaven and i am looking forward to being there.

Pilgrims progress,the entire book,is a christian and his walk ,headed to the celestial city/ heaven.
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
Non of them left Earth.

People can view stars and other planets millions of miles away right from the comfort of their living room here on earth.

Shadrack/Meshack /Abednego stayed in the fire- so?!

Still no rapture in the scriptures.
neither stayed where they were.
Both were taken.
Both removed.

Both were spared

Both had help leaving

Both were removed before the judgement.

Postribs need a post Judgement deliverance.
They need Noah going up AFTER the flood.

The need Lot to stay and be protected in sodom. (No deliverance but a fireproof house like the 3 hebrews in the furnace)

It truly is a pretrib rapture as Jesus tells us in mat 24 "...BEFORE THE FLOOD..
one taken,one left"

Thank you Jesus!!!