'Reductionist' versus 'Complete' view of the Gospel

[Unw0rthyS3rvant]

In Luke 24, Jesus said that repentance of sins should be preached in His name. So someone could read that and say the remission comes through preaching Jesus name, and that the baptism worked because of that, or read it as option 1, and the baptism is option 2. I consider these approaches 'reductionist' as opposed to looking at the overall picture of what scripture teaches on salvation. If we read Matthew, we see Jesus wanted the nations baptized. Luke continues his story in Acts, and we see how Peter emphasizes baptism in Acts 2:38, and it was important in Acts 10-11 as well.

But there is an argument for it. For example, Romans 10:9-10 says if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in thine heart that God raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

So what if someone appears before God on the day of judgment. He says he was an unchurched unbeliever and had only heard Jesus' name used as an expletive until he met a Christian who told him about Jesus and showed him four Bible verses, Romans 10:9-10, "Whosoever shall call upon the name of the LORD shall be saved." and "Whosoever believes on Him shall not be put to shame." And he says he confessed his sin, repented of it, confessed Jesus as Lord, and believed that He rose from the dead. He hadn't heard about baptism yet, and he got hit by a bus.

Can you or I judge and say that God would not save that man? Does God have the right to remit His sins without baptism? Christ had the right to tell the thief on the cross that he would be with Him in paradise. I John talks about praying for someone who sins not unto death. Baptism is for the remission of sins, but didn't God forgive sins in the Old Testament. We should fully embrace, teach, and encourage baptism, but do we have a right to limit God only to forgive sins through this means He has provided?

Absolutely!
All will stand before God and will answer for their choice and life only to God. His judgments are righteous!

I have been baptized but to me it is symbolic of being buried and rising again as a new creature of Christ.

It does NOT save! Only believing in Jesus' shed blood for the forgiveness of our sins plus confessing that belief brings salvation.
When we repent or have godly sorrow, ask God's forgiveness,change our mind and begin a relationship with him are we saved.

As you've said NOT everyone can be baptized before death!

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

When I read NLT, I remember I did not care for it when I heard it before. It's a little too on the paraphrase side of things. That's okay if someone is looking for easy reading and a translation that is maybe 20 or 30% commentary instead of translation and the reader knows that and uses other sources. I prefer formal equivalence. The less translator/interpreter between me and the text, the better.

Without looking up anything in an interlinear, I would just imagine 'When you came to Christ' is just sort of made-up there by the translator/interpreters and does not correspond with anything in particular in the Greek. I see 'sinful nature' instead of the more direct translation, 'flesh.' I'm guessing that's sarx in Greek.

I also do not care that much for how they handle verse 12. The KJV is clear that in baptism we are buried with Christ and also raised with Christ, that this happened through faith in the operation of God who raised him from the dead. The NLT's 'because you trusted' is a bit more vague and looses the specific meaning.

Part of the reason for it is readability. But I also try not to be too much of a cynic about this aspect of translation. A rule of thumb for plagiarism is you don't want to have five words (or set collocations-- standardized groups of words) in a row that are the same as the document you are quoting from. And in translations, too many words together that are like another translation may render your new translation uncopyrightable. And there are companies making lots of money off of churning out new Bible translations. The best ways of saying it are taken, and so what do they do? You see 'those' where 'them' would make better sense grammatically, awkward wording, wording that doesn't exactly convey meaning. Then there are easy-reading type paraphrases. But they had these different styles already in the '70's and '80s.

I like the rhythm of the KJV for memorizing and I grew up in the tail-end of the KJV era so I heard that in church. I like formal equivalence, so I prefer NKJV or ESV for a modern translation or trying to communicate with others. In Indonesian, I'm kind of stuck with the Terjemahan Baru (TB), though I do occasionally use the older standard translations, and I've found one from the 1960's that conveyed something that did not seem welll conveyed in the TB translation. But options are limited in that language.

I hear what you're saying. Let's use the ESV. I can use any translation, for they're all saying the same thing. And yes, Sarx is the focus of Spiritual Circumcision. Spiritual Cirucumcision is the cutting away of the "Sinful state of a person." Here is the ESV:

Colossians 2:11-13 ESV - "In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead. 13 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses . . ."

What is the Circumcision of Christ? What is cut away?

 

[Nehemiah6]

Maybe the audience got saved without being told that, or maybe we are to understand that Peter said a lot more that day and that we are getting a truncated version...

That is exactly what happened. Peter did say a lot more that day and it is in fact recorded: And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. (Acts 2:40)

The Gospel must speak of the fact that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures and also that He rose again the third day for our justification according to the Scriptures. But if someone is hearing the Gospel for the first time, much more will need to be shared. Philip explained Isaiah 53 to the Ethiopian. So ultimately the Holy Spirit must guide a person to share either a great deal or only what is needed for that situation. While Paul told the Philippian jailer "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved and thy house", he also shared a great deal more later as we see here: And they spake unto him the Word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house. (Acts 16:32) "The Word of the Lord" encompasses the whole Gospel.

However there are some here who are asserting that water baptism is necessary for the remission of sins (or even for the New Birth). While it may be closely connected, that is not true, and here is the proof: Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; (Acts 3:19). And that is exactly what Christ said in Luke 24 and Peter said in Acts 2.

It is repentance which leads to the remissions of sins, and it is faith in Christ and His finished work of redemption which leads to justification by grace through faith. Therefore Paul said that he constantly and continuously preached repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 20:21).

 

[peldom10]

That is exactly what happened. Peter did say a lot more that day and it is in fact recorded: And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. (Acts 2:40)

The Gospel must speak of the fact that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures and also that He rose again the third day for our justification according to the Scriptures. But if someone is hearing the Gospel for the first time, much more will need to be shared. Philip explained Isaiah 53 to the Ethiopian. So ultimately the Holy Spirit must guide a person to share either a great deal or only what is needed for that situation. While Paul told the Philippian jailer "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved and thy house", he also shared a great deal more later as we see here: And they spake unto him the Word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house. (Acts 16:32) "The Word of the Lord" encompasses the whole Gospel.

However there are some here who are asserting that water baptism is necessary for the remission of sins (or even for the New Birth). While it may be closely connected, that is not true, and here is the proof: Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; (Acts 3:19). And that is exactly what Christ said in Luke 24 and Peter said in Acts 2.

It is repentance which leads to the remissions of sins, and it is faith in Christ and His finished work of redemption which leads to justification by grace through faith. Therefore Paul said that he constantly and continuously preached repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 20:21).

That speaks of ...repentance ....why do you use that to deduce that baptism isn't necessary? That is violating the Bible because you are attempting to change God's word which is prohibited by Rev. 22; 18-19 and two other books of the Bible.
Not some asserting......it is clear the Bible demands baptism just as it demands repentance and righteous living;.

Get familiar with scriptures before posting and trying to miss lead folks with...non-biblical teaching thusly ;

Baptism is Required


Peter 3: 21.... whereunto even baptism doth also now save us...

John 3:5 .......Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


Acts 2;38-....Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 22;16... And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.


Galations 3:26...... For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

KJV Marrk 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved....but he that believeth not shall be damned.

KJV Matthew 3:14... But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15. Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now, for thus it becometh us to fulfil all rightesousness. Then He suffered Him.

KJV Matthew 28:19..... Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:.

Acts 8:12-18: But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized.

​

Quote from Billy Graham that is note worthy;​

....Also, to clarify I did not say remission of sin takes place at repentance. Scripture makes it clear that it occurs upon obedience to water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus. Each is a step of faith, along with receiving the Holy Ghost, in the process of one's spiritual rebirth​

​

.."Paul explains the doctrinal significance of what occurs when one is baptized.His explanation is found in his letter to those who had already been obedient to the command.​

​

Paul tells the Roman Christians what actually occurred when they were/are baptized; they were baptized into His death. Being buried with Jesus into His death resulted in their sin being destroyed.​

​

Even though Paul explains this concept, the NEW AGE RELIGION TEACHING is......... that water baptism is nothing other than a mere public display.......... And that is so far removed from the truth.​

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Keep in mind that Satan knows if he can continue to perpetuate that lie ...... he can keep people from entering the kingdom of God. Thus He has proven scripture which says ...in the end times there will be ...great delusions.....they are here.​

​

Conclusion....teaching that baptism is not necessary is violation of Rev. 22;19.... And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. 20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.​

 

[Moses_Young]

I hear what you're saying. Let's use the ESV. I can use any translation, for they're all saying the same thing. And yes, Sarx is the focus of Spiritual Circumcision. Spiritual Cirucumcision is the cutting away of the "Sinful state of a person." Here is the ESV:

Colossians 2:11-13 ESV - "In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead. 13 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses . . ."

What is the Circumcision of Christ? What is cut away?

The "foreskin of our hearts", the obstruction that makes our hearts hard, insensitive and unclean (and which also makes us stubborn, stiff-necked and rebellious).

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

The "foreskin of our hearts", the obstruction that makes our hearts hard, insensitive and unclean (and which also makes us stubborn, stiff-necked and rebellious).

@presidente - As you can see, Moses-Young sees precisely what I am seeing. Physical circumcision is an Operation made with human hands. Spiritual Circumcision is an Operation made without human hands. This is the entire context of Colossians 2:9-15 . . . the very Scripture which you quoted as an Operation of Faith. Consider what I call the "Two Elevens" below (in the ESV translation):

Ephesians 2:11 ESV - "Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called "the uncircumcision" by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands . . ."

Colossians 2:11 ESV - "In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ . . ."

This is what the entire Bible revolves around, straight from Genesis 3:22-24. If Adam and Eve would have been allowed to reach out and eat from the Tree of Life, they would have "lived forever." Only the Tree of Life grants Eternal Life, and that Tree is Christ, for Eternal Life only comes through Christ and no other avenue. This is why I say that if a person reads the Bible in a timeline, chronological order, but reads Colossians 2:9-15 before each daily reading, they will discover two things:

1) The Power of God is the most significant thing concept that we should Understand, Know, and Fear.
2) The Spiritual Circumcision of Christ.

But as Paul says in Ephesians chapters 3:1-13 and Ephesians 2:10-16 (read in that order), this Plan of God is a Mystery. So as long as you know that there is a Mystery to uncover, and by reading these three passage sets each day before your reading, the Mysterious Plan of God will begin to unfold itself to you in a way that you had never imagined. In closing of this post, you will even begin to see how the story of the Veil of Moses points directly to Colossians 2:9-15. The Veil being removed by Christ [IS] the Circumcision of Christ. And, it is the Circumcision of Christ that results in total Transformation.

2 Corinthians 3:12-18 ESV - "Since we have such a hope, we are very bold, not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face so that the Israelites might not gaze at the outcome of what was being brought to an end. But their minds were hardened. For to this day, when they read the old covenant, that same veil remains unlifted, because only through Christ is it taken away. Yes, to this day whenever Moses is read a veil lies over their hearts. But when one turns to the Lord, the veil is removed. Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit."

And what comes from the Lord? What does the Spirit do?

Romans 2:27-29 ESV - "Then he who is physically uncircumcised but keeps the law will condemn you who have the written code and circumcision but break the law. For no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical. But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God."

I beg of you to consider these verses as valid. Though the "church" of today pays these passages no regard, I beg of you to not take the approach of our modern-day "church." ALL of Scripture is to be revealed, and I assure you that by coming to accept the teaching of Spiritual Circumcision, the Bible as a whole will take on an entirely new meaning.

I hope this message finds your heart well . . .

 

[JAPOV]

I'm no scholar, I don't memorize scripture by author, chapter and verse... But, I know I've read many accounts in the new testament of people hearing and believing "The Word" and they were saved, they even spoke in tongues. "THEN" they went to be baptized!

 

[JAPOV]

I believe baptism is just as important as congregation.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

I'm no scholar, I don't memorize scripture by author, chapter and verse... But, I know I've read many accounts in the new testament of people hearing and believing "The Word" and they were saved, they even spoke in tongues. "THEN" they went to be baptized!

It's rather obvious, isn't it? But here's the problem . . . who is willing to admit that they're wrong, only to have to adjust their doctrine? It requires the admittance of defeat, and then a person has to re-adjust their set of beliefs. We have this picture of the Bible in our minds, and so if a major part of that picture is changed, there is much work involved to recreate the entire picture. And as said, who wants to do that? Many of us have spent our lifetimes believing a certain "thing," so to have it all come crumbling down is not something that most want to do. Thus, the majority are trapped because of an unwillingness to change. But this defies Romans 12:2 . . . for if we do not undergo a Transformation, then we obviously haven't been changed by the Spirit. And if we haven't been changed by the Spirit, then our Spiritual Father remains the Devil.

Therefore, it seems imperative that we all have a change of ideology . . . a Change of Heart.

 

[JAPOV]

It's rather obvious, isn't it? But here's the problem . . . who is willing to admit that they're wrong, only to have to adjust their doctrine? It requires the admittance of defeat, and then a person has to re-adjust their set of beliefs. We have this picture of the Bible in our minds, and so if a major part of that picture is changed, there is much work involved to recreate the entire picture. And as said, who wants to do that? Many of us have spent our lifetimes believing a certain "thing," so to have it all come crumbling down is not something that most want to do. Thus, the majority are trapped because of an unwillingness to change. But this defies Romans 12:2 . . . for if we do not undergo a Transformation, then we obviously haven't been changed by the Spirit. And if we haven't been changed by the Spirit, then our Spiritual Father remains the Devil.

Therefore, it seems imperative that we all have a change of ideology . . . a Change of Heart.

How about... "Unbelievers" undergo a major change once faced with the Spirit! However, believers are disciplined "daily" by change as we learn and grow.

That just seems a little less "competitive" to me...

 

[JaumeJ]

Once more, to believe is to do. If we believe Jesus we each will do, some in prayer works , some in sharing the G"ood News, some blessed to be gifted in teaching, some in healing and some who wait for the Lord..

This post, I believe with understanding, is from the Word according to understanding given. No two saved individuals are saved in the same manner, and not two saved individuals must have the identical gifts, but we all have them.

Do not put the simple understanding of the Gospel into an intellectual maze that only you understand, for the understanding is given to those who turn and become as children.

 

[Unw0rthyS3rvant]

Doctrine is defined in God's word and IT MUST BE GOD'S DOCTRINE.

Ppl say this is doctrine,no this is doctrine when neither is true. Doctrine MUST meet the standards of his word or it is just opinion, yours,mine and ours.

Let's not confuse ppl or be confused ourselves by ppl that repetively state the same thought over & over again. It doesn't make it God's word,if IT IS NOT HIS WORD.


Confused yet?😁

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

How about... "Unbelievers" undergo a major change once faced with the Spirit! However, believers are disciplined "daily" by change as we learn and grow.

That just seems a little less "competitive" to me...

In my experience, there is no competition. When a person is Indwelt by the Holy Spirit, change is inevitable. Because of the discipline of the Lord, I was forced. And if I hadn't been forced, I wouldn't have changed. Even to this day I am learning how to be "better." I'm still trying to figure out how to fit in with this world. It is all trial and error (for me).

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

No two saved individuals are saved in the same manner

But we are. There is only one process of Salvation. Perhaps you meant to say that not all are saved to DO the same Holy Works.

 

[Wansvic]

In Luke 24, Jesus said that repentance of sins should be preached in His name. So someone could read that and say the remission comes through preaching Jesus name, and that the baptism worked because of that, or read it as option 1, and the baptism is option 2. I consider these approaches 'reductionist' as opposed to looking at the overall picture of what scripture teaches on salvation. If we read Matthew, we see Jesus wanted the nations baptized. Luke continues his story in Acts, and we see how Peter emphasizes baptism in Acts 2:38, and it was important in Acts 10-11 as well.

But there is an argument for it. For example, Romans 10:9-10 says if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in thine heart that God raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

So what if someone appears before God on the day of judgment. He says he was an unchurched unbeliever and had only heard Jesus' name used as an expletive until he met a Christian who told him about Jesus and showed him four Bible verses, Romans 10:9-10, "Whosoever shall call upon the name of the LORD shall be saved." and "Whosoever believes on Him shall not be put to shame." And he says he confessed his sin, repented of it, confessed Jesus as Lord, and believed that He rose from the dead. He hadn't heard about baptism yet, and he got hit by a bus.

Can you or I judge and say that God would not save that man? Does God have the right to remit His sins without baptism? Christ had the right to tell the thief on the cross that he would be with Him in paradise. I John talks about praying for someone who sins not unto death. Baptism is for the remission of sins, but didn't God forgive sins in the Old Testament. We should fully embrace, teach, and encourage baptism, but do we have a right to limit God only to forgive sins through this means He has provided?

The fulfillment of what Jesus prophesied in Luke 24:47 is recorded in Acts 2:38. Prior to the Day of Pentecost people were not water baptized in Jesus name for the remission of sin. We know this because the purpose of the Christian baptism was done in association with Jesus' death, burial and resurrection. Also, this truth is seen in Paul's interaction with the Ephesus disciples in Acts 19:1-6. The twelve had to be rebaptized in water in the name of the Lord Jesus because John's baptism was not sufficient for the purpose God intended.

As for the thief on the cross he died while the OT was still in effect, and prior to the NT commands given at Pentecost when water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus was instituted.

Though it may seem harsh I believe obedience to the commands set forth by God are non-negotiable. I believe God means what He says. And without obedience to water baptism in Jesus' name ones sins are retained. According to Peter, Ananias and Paul sins are destroyed in obedience to God's command to be baptized. (Acts 2:38, 22:16, Rom. 6:3-6) Clearly water baptism in Jesus' name is not optional since sin cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Also consider that Romans was written to those who were already born again believers. Paul's letter included the explanation of what occurred when they had previously obeyed the command to be baptized. (Romans 6:3-6) Also important is salvation is an ongoing process. Paul says all are to work out their own salvation with fear and trembling. (Php 2:12) Receiving one's spiritual rebirth is just the beginning. Confessing Jesus to the lost and dying world is a lifelong responsibility.

Throughout scripture man is cautioned to adhere to God's commands. Those who did not were in jeopardy of death. Why? Because there was a purpose behind every single command. And most often only after being obedient by stepping out in faith brought about a clarity in one's understanding of why God required it in the first place.

Lastly, since God is just, is it not reasonable that His requirements apply to everyone. To teach otherwise is not wise. Especially since Jesus said that everyone without exception will be judged by the Word. (John 12:48)

 

[peldom10]

I believe baptism is just as important as congregation.

your post is a dangling participle...for sure.

 

[Wansvic]

I'm no scholar, I don't memorize scripture by author, chapter and verse... But, I know I've read many accounts in the new testament of people hearing and believing "The Word" and they were saved, they even spoke in tongues. "THEN" they went to be baptized!

The message people heard and believed included the need to be obedient and submit to water baptism:

Acts 2:38-39 (Jewish) The group did not receive the Holy Ghost the moment they believed in Jesus. However, they were told they could expect the Holy Ghost at some point.

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Acts 8:12-17 (Samaritans-half jewish-half gentile)
But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.
Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

Acts 10:43-48 (Gentiles)
To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Acts 19:2-6 (Disciples who did not realize they had to water baptized in Jesus name)
He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. (They were rebaptized in water in the name of the Jesus)
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

Acts 22:14-16 (Paul's water baptism)
And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.
For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Acts 8:35-40 (The Eunuch responds to Philip's message by asking if he can get baptized)
Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.
But Philip was found at Azotus: and passing through he preached in all the cities, till he came to Caesarea.

Acts 16:28-33 Jailer and family saved
But Paul cried with a loud voice, saying, Do thyself no harm: for we are all here.
Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,
And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.
And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.

 

[JAPOV]

Acts 2:38-39 (Jewish) The group did not receive the Holy Ghost the moment they believed in Jesus. However, they were told they could expect the Holy Ghost at some point.

Really? Must we now debate what "evidence of the Spirit" means?

WE MUST COME TOGETHER IN AGREEMENT AND PRAISE!

 

[Nehemiah6]

That speaks of ...repentance ....why do you use that to deduce that baptism isn't necessary?

I did not say baptism is not necessary. I said that it is not baptism which produces remission of sins (or washes away sins) but repentance. Jesus said that repentance was necessary for the remission of sins. But after repentance and faith, baptism is necessary for every believer as a testimony of his or her faith in Christ (see Acts 10). But water baptism does not save.

 

[peldom10]

I did not say baptism is not necessary. I said that it is not baptism which produces remission of sins (or washes away sins) but repentance. Jesus said that repentance was necessary for the remission of sins. But after repentance and faith, baptism is necessary for every believer as a testimony of his or her faith in Christ (see Acts 10). But water baptism does not save.

You are still wrong.
Why aren't you accepting God's word..as written?

..........from the list posted;

Peter 3: 21.... whereunto even baptism doth also now save us...

What about that commandment u do not understand?

Plus all the others?