'Reductionist' versus 'Complete' view of the Gospel

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2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
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#81
Again with your persecution problems. Do you believe everyone is against you? I am sorry for you and your paranoid allegations. Please, keep it tp yourself .

Constantly referring to "all the rest who," is a giant tell.
Why are you talking to me? What do you want? What is your goal? What are you trying to accomplish?
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,424
6,703
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#82
What is your goal? What are you trying to accomplish?
Ok, go back and see my posts and your responses. Now count how many of your responses were not to my post rather to a line take out of context to suit your designing way of perverting anyone's posts. You have dont that to just about everyone you have feigned dialoging with. Instead of addressing their posts done in honesty and faith, you take a line out of their post which does not reflect what the entire post is conveying.

I thought if you could do that, perhaps I could also. You do not like it appears, so stop doing that or you will be receiving this same attitude from ail of those other people who are perfecting you *not.

Now, in the future if you cannot address an entire post to which you claim to be responding, just stay away, it is a very unkind manner. God bless you to learn this and change your way.
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
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#83
Ok, go back and see my posts and your responses. Now count how many of your responses were not to my post rather to a line take out of context to suit your designing way of perverting anyone's posts. You have dont that to just about everyone you have feigned dialoging with. Instead of addressing their posts done in honesty and faith, you take a line out of their post which does not reflect what the entire post is conveying.

I thought if you could do that, perhaps I could also. You do not like it appears, so stop doing that or you will be receiving this same attitude from ail of those other people who are perfecting you *not.

Now, in the future if you cannot address an entire post to which you claim to be responding, just stay away, it is a very unkind manner. God bless you to learn this and change your way.
Here's a solution for you: Since you don't like the things that I do or write, how about if you and I ignore one another? Would that work for you?
 
May 22, 2020
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#84
I did not say baptism is not necessary. I said that it is not baptism which produces remission of sins (or washes away sins) but repentance. Jesus said that repentance was necessary for the remission of sins. But after repentance and faith, baptism is necessary for every believer as a testimony of his or her faith in Christ (see Acts 10). But water baptism does not save.
Game playing....baptism without repentance is no good either. So what is the point?
 
J

JAPOV

Guest
#85
John 3-
"
5Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6Flesh is born of flesh, but spirit is born of the Spirit."

Question? "Kingdom of God"?
Ahemm... "Kingdom of God?"... See where I'm going...?
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,424
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#86
Would that work for you?
I do not think so, since we are to love one another as family. If you cannot listen to reason you may put me on ignore.. God bless you.

The crux of the matter is simple, when you respond to anyone, respond to the entire text of their post or at least t to the meaning of the entire post.
 
J

JAPOV

Guest
#87
Lord Father in heaven... We need your wisdom.
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
1,952
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#88
I do not think so, since we are to love one another as family. If you cannot listen to reason you may put me on ignore.. God bless you.

The crux of the matter is simple, when you respond to anyone, respond to the entire text of their post or at least t to the meaning of the entire post.
Sir. I hear what you're saying. But I cannot honor your request. I do not have the time to address each point that is made in every long post that are offered in any given post. To date, not one person has ever done this for me. No one responds to each point in a post.

I'm sorry that you are upset with me and feel that I am not fair. I feel that I am in a corner and I don't know how to get out of it.

Also, I want you to listen to me and believe what I have to say. It is very important that you Trust and believe me on this:

I do not feel like a victim. Let's look at the definition of "Victim."

"One who is harmed by or made to suffer under a circumstance or condition."

Sir, no one is harming me. No one here is causing me to suffer. I say this gently . . . I am not a victim as you have labeled me. What I am doing is trying to make the point that we should all just be able to come here, make our points and if we don't agree . . . who cares! But when we begin to argue, my desire is that it would stop. Again, what I am trying to do is point out that we need to stop arguing. And again, I do not feel like a victim. I couldn't care less what anyone, here, says to me or about me. This is why I ask that people join me in a face-to-face video call . . . so that they can see that I'm not angry. I'm not upset. They would see that I am calm, happy and totally unoffended.

I am very sorry if my words seem harsh. But I need you to understand that these are just little black letters that make up words. But, there is no feeling in them. I am not what you think . . . if you were to speak with me, you would find that I am your friend. You would likely find that I would literally lay down my life to protect you. I am not your enemy, but your friend. I would do nearly anything to help you if I were able. I hope that you understand.

David
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,773
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#89
Game playing....baptism without repentance is no good either. So what is the point?
Not game playing but straightening out spiritual confusion. Repentance followed by faith followed by baptism is what we see in Scripture. The point is that water baptism is Christ's command for every Christian. Regardless of whether a person can fully understand its implications. Later on people will see how important it is.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,424
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#90
I'm sorry that you are upset with me
I am not upset with you, or I would have stopped attempting to get through to you, and you are not sorry or you would go beyond monologue. Now I must go to my daily work.
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
1,952
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#91
I am not upset with you, or I would have stopped attempting to get through to you, and you are not sorry or you would go beyond monologue. Now I must go to my daily work.
Okie Doke.
 

Snacks

Well-known member
Feb 10, 2022
1,410
771
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#93
Was the thief on the cross baptized? No.
Is the thief on the cross saved? Yes.
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
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#94
Was the thief on the cross baptized? No.
Is the thief on the cross saved? Yes.
Right. But . . . people will often say that the thief was "the exception." It's pretty tough to deal with manmade exceptions. For, when we apply this rule, we can create any gospel that we think is right.
 

Snacks

Well-known member
Feb 10, 2022
1,410
771
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#96
Right. But . . . people will often say that the thief was "the exception." It's pretty tough to deal with manmade exceptions. For, when we apply this rule, we can create any gospel that we think is right.
Good point, and thank you for taking time to reply. Taking Scripture in its entirety, I see the thief as the rule, not the exception.
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
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#97
Taking Scripture in its entirety, I see the thief as the rule, not the exception.
Exactly! It still amazes me (to this day) that I used to think and feel that I was some sort of a Biblical Master, though I have never even read the Old Testament. Sure, I had read Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Deuteronomy, and then petered out after that. And yes, I've read portions of the Old Testament for several decades . . . but I had never taken the time to read not only the entire OT, but I began to read it in a timeline, chronological order so that I could begin to understand the Story of God. And what is the Story of God? Well, that just happens to be the entire Gospel of Jesus Christ.

It's easy to tell, when talking to another person, if they understand the Bible in a timeline, chronological order, for by the simple way that they talk about the Bible makes it obvious. When a person begins to read the Bible with the below question in mind, THEN they will begin to understand.

What is the Gospel? What is the Mysterious Plan of God?

Note below that Paul asks for prayer that he be given the ability to clearly speak of and reveal this plan. That tells me that the Plan is not some simple little "thing" that we can disclose in simple terms like, "The Gospel is the Good News of Jesus Christ!" No, it is much more than that. In fact, it is so much more than Phillip needed to get up and in the Eunuchs chariot and have a seat. It takes time to fully explain. There is a context that spans all the way into the Old Testament, just as Phillip and the Eunuch made evident.

Ephesians 1:9 NLT - "God has now revealed to us his mysterious plan regarding Christ, a plan to fulfill his own good pleasure.

Ephesians 6:19 NLT - "And pray for me, too. Ask God to give me the right words so I can boldly explain God's mysterious plan that the Good News is for Jews and Gentiles alike."

Colossians 2:2 NLT - "I want them to be encouraged and knit together by strong ties of love. I want them to have complete confidence that they understand God's mysterious plan, which is Christ himself."
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
8,266
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#98
If it's impossible for someone to be baptized, then their fate is for God (the just Judge) to decide.

The command he left for us is to to baptize. What will He say to us for not baptizing when we clearly should be?
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
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#99
If it's impossible for someone to be baptized, then their fate is for God (the just Judge) to decide.

The command he left for us is to to baptize. What will He say to us for not baptizing when we clearly should be?
If a person refused water baptism, it would be the same as a person refusing to be physically circumcised, for they both point to the exact same thing . . . commitment to Purity, Righteousness, and Holiness. And if this is True, then what was applicable to those who refused to be circumcised would be applicable to those who refuse the public display of water baptism (being ashamed of this public display).

Genesis 17:14 NLT - "Any male who fails to be circumcised will be cut off from the covenant family for breaking the covenant."

Shame is what we've been dealing with since Adam and Eve served the Devil.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
8,266
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If a person refused water baptism, it would be the same as a person refusing to be physically circumcised, for they both point to the exact same thing . . . commitment to Purity, Righteousness, and Holiness. And if this is True, then what was applicable to those who refused to be circumcised would be applicable to those who refuse the public display of water baptism (being ashamed of this public display).

Genesis 17:14 NLT - "Any male who fails to be circumcised will be cut off from the covenant family for breaking the covenant."

Shame is what we've been dealing with since Adam and Eve served the Devil.
John the Baptist didn't come preaching circumcision, neither did the Lord.