Reformed vs Charismatic

[Joshua_Generation]

I did not say you were




Oh I reject truth? lol.. Yet you just said you must do something which I would agree with. See what happens when you cherry pic and assume things.


I am retired military, I served my country, and gave my life. I know what a soldier does. Thanks for the insult!


God gives us our weapons, we are not fighting a battle of flesh and blood but principalities and powers. God gives us everything we need, So whats your point. I have never stated we should not use what God gives us. But we can not have them unless god gives them right?



so prayer is not one of the weapons. Thanks. Good to know. I guess it shows where your coming from.



hmm. Thanks, but that is what I have been saying, again if you would read you would understand that.




If you do not have the weapons, try to do it on your own, and do not seek the guidance of the commander in chief. Your lost. and will run around in circles. and satan will devour you.



there you go again, Saying what I have said all along (rolls eyes)





lol. Now this made me laugh, you think you have advanced me in spiritual growth? Now I have heard everything. You still have a ways to go my friend.

You do not exhort a baby Christian to perfection. You disciple them and love them. This is a chat room with alot of baby christians, and people who may not even know Christ, your breathing righteousness and judgment is not for their ears. They have no capacity to do what you ask, and your ownly judging them.




Thanks for once again telling me something I already knew.

Dude you ever read what a person says?

And funny how paul realied in romans 7 his true self at a mature stage in his christian life. And how we can have victory over it in chapter 8.

Acknowledging your a sinner is not going out and sinning, it is acknowledgeing you have no power over sin apart from God.



Nah, Humility is the only way to spiritual maturity, God resists the proud. Or have you not found that out yet?



You do not know me, Thus your strawman is meaningless. It is obvious you are failing on words, and resorting to attack. Same religious mentaility I have been speaking about. there is no humility in you, and my humility offends you. so of course you attack.

The truth hurts doesn't it?

oh ps. your the one who made the claim. Funny how you could not find any examples when confronted about your claim and all you can do is attack




lol. And you know me. Yeah right, again an attack. Your just like the pharisees aren't you?




Ok, your right. No I do not love benny hinn unconditionally. I hope he gets to heaven.

Oh wait, I just contradicted myself. how can that be (rolls eyes)



Again, Your failure to see what true unconditional love is is not my problem. that is yours.



well good thing I do not fold now isnt it.

It is not me, it is Christ in me, The cross is my cornerstone. whats yours?




Back at ya.

You just made claims which were not true. Stated I did not believe things I do. Made atack after attack because you could not answer when confronted... I could go on and on. but why bother.

Until you see your pride, no one can help you.

From one Vet to another, no personal insult was made to your service. There was more than spiritual warfare in that example, there was more Biblical truth, in that example than you can see right now.

The fact you believe it was a personal insult and took it as such and the fact you could not grasp what was actually being said in the example given, tells me something about you very clearly. Just like asking you about Benny Hinn did. If you constantly think that people in the Body asking you questions are attempting to judge, insult, debase or attack you, you will never grow.


Let me say this plainly.
Had you simply said YES to my question about Benny Hinn, it would have proven you love someone unconditionally despite their shortcomings and faults. That is true perfect Christlike unconditional love, something you remind others they do not have, but you do. Yet you could not let your yes be yes on that and instead resorted to playing word games and other semantics, because you "know" my type and I was coming after you.

It is evident that when challenged it becomes all about you and that people are personally insulting you and they are the problem and obviously have no clue what love is. We see this a lot with those coming out of very legalist traditional churches that have been busted and disgusted and battered and bruised. We also see many that will grow out of this phase if they want to and becoem everything God has called them to be.



My cornerstone is the cornerstone, Christ Jesus. Is there another?

 

[Joshua_Generation]

amen, Christ has to be our cornerstone, without him, we are in deep trouble.

I fight legalism with a passion, It is not for my benefit, I have been freed from it, it is for those who may be exposed to it, before it destroys them. so sometimes I may see things which are not there, and go overboard But it all comes from my heart whit good intentions.

So is the cross or Christ your cornerstone? I ask because here you say it is Christ, but in a post to me you said:

It is not me, it is Christ in me, The cross is my cornerstone. whats yours?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So is the cross or Christ your cornerstone?

and there is a difference?

 

[Joshua_Generation]

and there is a difference?

You tell me. You seem to be the one confused between the 2.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

From one Vet to another, no personal insult was made to your service. There was more than spiritual warfare in that example, there was more Biblical truth, in that example than you can see right now.

The fact you believe it was a personal insult and took it as such and the fact you could not grasp what was actually being said in the example given, tells me something about you very clearly. Just like asking you about Benny Hinn did. If you constantly think that people in the Body asking you questions are attempting to judge, insult, debase or attack you, you will never grow.


Let me say this plainly.
Had you simply said YES to my question about Benny Hinn, it would have proven you love someone unconditionally despite their shortcomings and faults. That is true perfect Christlike unconditional love, something you remind others they do not have, but you do. Yet you could not let your yes be yes on that and instead resorted to playing word games and other semantics, because you "know" my type and I was coming after you.

It is evident that when challenged it becomes all about you and that people are personally insulting you and they are the problem and obviously have no clue what love is. We see this a lot with those coming out of very legalist traditional churches that have been busted and disgusted and battered and bruised. We also see many that will grow out of this phase if they want to and becoem everything God has called them to be.



My cornerstone is the cornerstone, Christ Jesus. Is there another?

Many people say Christ is their cornerstone, but they ignore the cross.

The cross is Gods unconditional love and agape love given to us, if this is not our cornerstone, we will never have any capacity to love anyone.

Benny hinn I feel is a stain to the christian church. I see no good in what he does. That does not mean I do not love him, if I did not love him, I would which him to go to hell for what I feel he has done.

Again, There is no greater love than to wish our enemy is in heaven with us. for then, we will not be enemies. ever again, and we will all believe the same way.

 

[Bowhunter2394]

The 'cross' is a stumblingstone, rock of offense, foolishness because it STIFLES 'mans pride' especially man's religous pride, God Displays His Way.. I've provided a Way. its thru My Son's COMPLETE AND PERFECT APPEASEMENT, Christ Crucified, His Work. 'it is finished'.. man in his/her pride.. says. oh we know that.. but we are either going to add something to that.. or take away something from the Work. just so we 'know' its going to 'stick'.. lolz.. thus you have the manifestation of 'un belief'.. in His Son's complete Atoning Work. thus the many sects divsions groups that claim Christ and their way.. and these preach Jesus and Him crucified from their 'traditional ' christianity they have 'worked up'.. in their carnal interpretation of the Word of God.. Christ Crucified, the Power and Wisdom and God.. Christ and the Cross He was spiked to go together.. as the Elect of God are Crucified with Him Daily.. the body dead because of sin, but the spirit made alive Because of Imputed Righteousness, the Spirit of Christ living in His Own.. crucified to the world, yet in the World living daily, separate from Apostasy, living and growin in Him thru His Grace on a daily basis.. from Faith to Faith, Glory to glory.. The Cross of Christ, God's Way , His Only Way, nothing added to it and nothing taken away from its Complete Perfect Appeasement , Achieved thru the Son of Man, Jesus the Christ, God manifest in the flesh!.. no other Way... the Narrow Way..

 

[Joshua_Generation]

Many people say Christ is their cornerstone, but they ignore the cross.

The cross is Gods unconditional love and agape love given to us, if this is not our cornerstone, we will never have any capacity to love anyone.

Benny hinn I feel is a stain to the christian church. I see no good in what he does. That does not mean I do not love him, if I did not love him, I would which him to go to hell for what I feel he has done.

Again, There is no greater love than to wish our enemy is in heaven with us. for then, we will not be enemies. ever again, and we will all believe the same way.

Why do you always start things with: Many People state....

I do not care what many people state, I care what the Bible states.

So what does the Bible say about the cornerstone EG?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Why do you always start things with: Many People state....

I do not care what many people state, I care what the Bible states.

So what does the Bible say about the cornerstone EG?

The cross (Christ)

What do you think bought our salvation? what do you think proved Gods love to all mankind? What do you think proved satan a liar?

Actions speak louder than words. Christ one action did more for creation that any word spoken.

why do you want to deny the cross? Your scaring me. just being honest.

1 Corinthians 2:2
For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified.

1 Corinthians 1:23
but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness,

Galatians 2:20
I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.

Galatians 6:14
But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

 

[Joshua_Generation]

The cross (Christ)

What do you think bought our salvation? what do you think proved Gods love to all mankind? What do you think proved satan a liar?

Actions speak louder than words. Christ one action did more for creation that any word spoken.

why do you want to deny the cross? Your scaring me. just being honest.

1 Corinthians 2:2
For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified.

1 Corinthians 1:23
but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness,

Galatians 2:20
I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.

Galatians 6:14
But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

Matthew 21:42
Jesus *said to them, “Did you never read in the Scriptures, ‘The stone which the builders rejected, This became the chief corner stone; This came about from the Lord, And it is marvelous in our eyes’?


Mark 12:10
Have you not even read this Scripture: ‘The stone which the builders rejected, This became the chief corner stone;


Luke 20:17
But Jesus looked at them and said, “What then is this that is written: ‘The stone which the builders rejected, This became the chief corner stone’?


Acts 4:11
He is the stone which was rejected by you, the builders, but which became the chief corner stone.


1 Peter 2:6
For this is contained in Scripture: “Behold, I lay in Zion a choice stone, a precious corner stone, And he who believes in Him will not be disappointed.”


1 Peter 2:7
This precious value, then, is for you who believe; but for those who disbelieve, “The stone which the builders rejected, This became the very corner stone,”


Then this one:
Ephesians 2:20

having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone,

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Matthew 21:42
Jesus *said to them, “Did you never read in the Scriptures, ‘The stone which the builders rejected, This became the chief corner stone; This came about from the Lord, And it is marvelous in our eyes’?


Mark 12:10
Have you not even read this Scripture: ‘The stone which the builders rejected, This became the chief corner stone;


Luke 20:17
But Jesus looked at them and said, “What then is this that is written: ‘The stone which the builders rejected, This became the chief corner stone’?


Acts 4:11
He is the stone which was rejected by you, the builders, but which became the chief corner stone.


1 Peter 2:6
For this is contained in Scripture: “Behold, I lay in Zion a choice stone, a precious corner stone, And he who believes in Him will not be disappointed.”


1 Peter 2:7
This precious value, then, is for you who believe; but for those who disbelieve, “The stone which the builders rejected, This became the very corner stone,”


Then this one:
Ephesians 2:20

having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone,

put all those verses with the one verse I posted.


1 Corinthians 1:23
but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness,

Christ is our cornerstone ONLY based on the cross. without the cross. We have no hope. Christ would be our judge jury and executioner. Because we would have no hope.

 

[Bowhunter2394]

Thru One mans Obedience , Many are Made Righteous..... made Righteous thru what? the Obedience of One Man.. Christ Jesus God manifest in the flesh, His Appeasement, How is One made Righteous thru that ? its called Belief, in His Complete Atoning Work to Justify oneself and the belief that one is Robed In His Imputed Righteousness.. God WILL NOT deem somebody Righteous who claims to know Him. yet adds or diminishes His Sons Work at the Bloody tree, there is NO OTHER WAY.. the Simplicity of Christ Crucified, its SO SIMPLE... for MANY its a stumblingstone and foolishness, Only God Himself can open your eyes to the Truth behind the Simplicty of the Gospel and Christ Crucified.. when that is revealed to you.. all other things become purdy dim or without significance... they truly do.. its all about God and His Work of Salvation, not about man and what he/she can do for God... stark difference in those 2 areas.. one smells of the stench self righteousness the Other a sweet smelling saviour unto the God of Truth as the convert from the Heart Truly believes what God did for them. is SUFFICIENT!. THAT IS what Grace is all about!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Thru One mans Obedience , Many are Made Righteous..... made Righteous thru what? the Obedience of One Man.. Christ Jesus God manifest in the flesh, His Appeasement, How is One made Righteous thru that ? its called Belief, in His Complete Atoning Work to Justify oneself and the belief that one is Robed In His Imputed Righteousness.. God WILL NOT deem somebody Righteous who claims to know Him. yet adds or diminishes His Sons Work at the Bloody tree, there is NO OTHER WAY.. the Simplicity of Christ Crucified, its SO SIMPLE... for MANY its a stumblingstone and foolishness, Only God Himself can open your eyes to the Truth behind the Simplicty of the Gospel and Christ Crucified.. when that is revealed to you.. all other things become purdy dim or without significance... they truly do.. its all about God and His Work of Salvation, not about man and what he/she can do for God... stark difference in those 2 areas.. one smells of the stench self righteousness the Other a sweet smelling saviour unto the God of Truth as the convert from the Heart Truly believes what God did for them. is SUFFICIENT!. THAT IS what Grace is all about!

amen, as Peter said twice, You are the Christ the son of the living God. and eternal life was based on this. based on what? The Cross.

 

[Bowhunter2394]

amen, as Peter said twice, You are the Christ the son of the living God. and eternal life was based on this. based on what? The Cross.

Indeed. when you look at the Word of God.. the Crucifixtion of Christ, Christ Crucified is the Foundation of the Gospel.. Paul said it thru the Inspiration of the Holy Ghost, from the Book of Genesis to the last Book of Revelation. Crucified 'before' the Foundation of the World.. to the Book of Revelation UPON his Return. 'they shall look upon Him whom they Pierced! Those Wounds, even though He is Glorified.. will be there FOR ETERNITY. to Remind those in the His 1000 year Reign of what He Did and Accomplished at the tree.. oh indeed.. those Wounds ARE GLORY and Power and Victory to God.. to the carnal man, they dont make sense.. even to the 'carnal christian'.. they are foolish.. but to God the Father, represent Victory and Eternal Salvation for those He Calls , those He has known since before dirt and time were created..! indeed! THE CLOSER YOU DRAW NIGH TO GOD and He reveals what He has done for you. .at the Tree.. the MORE YOU REALIZE how wretched and short you fall on a daily basis.. therein in Lies the Rest of God.. in Knowing He has done it for you.. thru Grace.. Rest, and learn and Grow in Him.. if ye dont understand the Mystery Behind Christ Crucified, then you will only cycle in the cycle of condemantion and guilt.. never learning, never growing in the LORD.. the Work of the Cross and Christ .. represents 'REST FOR THE WEARY SOUL'.. man in his/her pride.. says we gotta work more.. gotta add to it or take some away.. to get it done.. therein the offense of the Cross and its Perfect Appeasement by the One who could only do it Perfectly , the Man Christ Jesus, God manifest in the flesh!

 

[Bowhunter2394]

Going back to the Original Post.. this group or that group? CHRIST IS NOT DIVIDED.. He isnt.. if ye were taken into Heaven and shown what is there.. you would not find this group there, that group over here, another group eleveated above this group because their'doctrine was better'.. if ye were taken into Heaven ye would find 'blood bought Saints there'.. those who are His.. not based on mans' theology and carnal inclinations.. nope. Blood bought Saints, Christ Himself Purchased with His Atoning Work at the tRee.. these WHOM THE FATHER GAVE TO HIM.. Regenerated from on High.. by the Sovereign Will of the Eternal Godhead! when you tell people that their divsion or sect or denomination WONT BE FOUND IN HEAVEN.. they really get offended.. because they were led to believe a 'lie' that man's wisdom and his theological Prowness was 'sufficient ' to get them to Heaven.. when God has ALREADY displayed His Way to Heaven.. it 'rolls' thru Calvary and Christ Crucified.. indeed!

 

[kohelet]

I was asking the question, how were people responding. I think this thread has illustrated the issues are still as unclear as ever, and there is much work that is still needed.

Well you did ask that question Peter, but not before you'd responded to "Strange Fire" with

Oh what sadness, that people have abandoned love and truth for ectasy, wealth and influence. So much sin and failure.... [W]hen people become emotional and ectastic, they behave in strange ways, but this is just how the body reacts when emotions that have been bottled up so long break out. How can so many give up on love and overcoming, to go back to error and sin.

You went on to also speak of the lies of prophets. I'm still trying to get my head around it all and tease out the implications. It's not only the emotional and ecstatic wild-eyed enthusiasts who behave in strange ways.

Since you'd watched John MacArthur's "Strange Fire" and drew your conclusions from what you had seen, let's take him, for example. Paul writes "Do not treat prophecies with contempt but test all things, holding on to what is good" (1 Thessalonians 5:20.21). So we should test prophecies but not stop there; we should test all other things too.

Peter, Charismatic and Reformed are not mutually exclusive and John MacArthur - as good as he can be - gets it wrong often enough to cause concern.

Some years ago I was giving Arminianism and Calvinism some thought and decided to consult John MacArthur on the matter. He's good, I thought, and he kind of is, sometimes. But having read his Charismatic Chaos some years previously and having been troubled by his tendency to construct straw men, I was unimpressed to see him up to his old tricks here too! At a conference in 2008 he misrepresented Arminian theology as well, for goodness sake, grossly, as Matt O'Reilly in his blog Orthodoxy for Everyone says here (and others say elsewhere; ask me if you want more links) Orthodoxy for Everyone: John MacArthur Misrepresents Arminianism.

Why would you swallow what you heard in "Strange Fire" uncritically?

 

[PeterJens]

Why would you swallow what you heard in "Strange Fire" uncritically?

My position is I am saved into eternity, but I only know today and what I am doing. Could I be a Judas, going along with everything with another motive, I trust in the Lord not. But what I have discovered in life is our hearts are very deceitful and often what we think is our motives, can be something else.

So I read the theology of Later Rain, and see heresy, a new gospel and a denial of Jesus and the power of love working in the world. My heart sings in joy to praise of His Holy name, it is my life yet these groups appear to be dominating in the emotional expression area.

Reformed theology, a theology of the mind, with emotions dangerous, under wraps, where everything must be rational, controlled, ordered. This is the world of legalism, analysis, justification because you grasp a concept, or set of ideas, and things must never get outside the box. So calvin was happy to execute anabaptists, in prison people for minor lapses, which is being a minor dictator.

So I sit in the middle, but I wonder where things have got to, and how serious the rot has become.

A few years ago at work a young man started by talking about being a christian. He went to a pentecostal church of the prosperity type. I mentioned the basic theological concept of being justified before God by faith alone in Jesus and the cross. He literally looked at me as if I was an alien.

HillSong preacher has started talking about a mixture of Islam and Christianity, but honestly he has no clue about Islam, it is a joke. It is like those who are so spaced out on praise, everything is cool man, just pass the drug for the next high.

The quakers became universalists for the same reason, but life and love do have structure and meaning, and Jesus and the cross are foundational realities, which seems to get missed by these opposing camps.

 

[GracethroughfaithinChrist]

Gal 3 - 5 is so good a passage, to show us that living by rules will never make us righteous, or help us to maturity. That we do not focus on what traditions we need to follow. or what holidays we need to adhere too. Of what sins we should not do. But focus on taking that love of Jesus and sharing it with the world.,

As paul said, Just as the bondwoman was cast out. this legalistic theology is so dangerous the church needs to cast it out, because as Ishmael would attack Issac. So does legalism attack the true bride of Christ. and cuts it off from the blessings of God. Because God can not bless us when we are trying to relate to him through laws or seasons or holidays.

God wants a relationship with us. Not a pseudo religion which thinks it is making God happy/

Amen eg.......

“Cursed is the man who trusts in man and makes flesh his strength, whose heart turns away from the LORD.
He is like a shrub in the desert,
and shall not see any good come.
He shall dwell in the parched places of the wilderness,
in an uninhabited salt land.

Luke 10:25-37
25And behold, a lawyer stood up to put him to the test, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” 26He said to him, “What is written in the Law? How do you read it?” 27And he answered, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind, and your neighbor as yourself.” 28And he said to him, “You have answered correctly; do this, and you will live.”
29But he, desiring to justify himself, said to Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?” 30Jesus replied, “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and he fell among robbers, who stripped him and beat him and departed, leaving him half dead. 31Now by chance a priest was going down that road, and when he saw him he passed by on the other side. 32So likewise a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. 33But a Samaritan, as he journeyed, came to where he was, and when he saw him, he had compassion. 34He went to him and bound up his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he set him on his own animal and brought him to an inn and took care of him. 35And the next day he took out two denarii[SUP]c[/SUP] and gave them to the innkeeper, saying, ‘Take care of him, and whatever more you spend, I will repay you when I come back.’ 36Which of these three, do you think, proved to be a neighbor to the man who fell among the robbers?” 37He said, “The one who showed him mercy.” And Jesus said to him, “You go, and do likewise.”

Romans 7:4-6
4Likewise, my brothers, you also have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God. 5For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death. 6But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code.[SUP]c[/SUP]

Romans 10:1-4
1Brothers,[SUP]a[/SUP] my heart’s desire and prayer to God for them is that they may be saved. 2For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. 3For, being ignorant of the righteousness of God, and seeking to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness. 4For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.[SUP]b[/SUP]

 

[kohelet]

My position is I am saved into eternity, but I only know today and what I am doing. Could I be a Judas, going along with everything with another motive, I trust in the Lord not. But what I have discovered in life is our hearts are very deceitful and often what we think is our motives, can be something else.

So I read the theology of Later Rain, and see heresy, a new gospel and a denial of Jesus and the power of love working in the world. My heart sings in joy to praise of His Holy name, it is my life yet these groups appear to be dominating in the emotional expression area.

Reformed theology, a theology of the mind, with emotions dangerous, under wraps, where everything must be rational, controlled, ordered. This is the world of legalism, analysis, justification because you grasp a concept, or set of ideas, and things must never get outside the box. So calvin was happy to execute anabaptists, in prison people for minor lapses, which is being a minor dictator.

So I sit in the middle, but I wonder where things have got to, and how serious the rot has become.

A few years ago at work a young man started by talking about being a christian. He went to a pentecostal church of the prosperity type. I mentioned the basic theological concept of being justified before God by faith alone in Jesus and the cross. He literally looked at me as if I was an alien.

HillSong preacher has started talking about a mixture of Islam and Christianity, but honestly he has no clue about Islam, it is a joke. It is like those who are so spaced out on praise, everything is cool man, just pass the drug for the next high.

The quakers became universalists for the same reason, but life and love do have structure and meaning, and Jesus and the cross are foundational realities, which seems to get missed by these opposing camps.

​I don't know that Jesus and the cross are missed by the opposing camps at all, Peter and, as I've said, the camps are not always opposing. You're entitled to your view though.

When forming a view, could I encourage you to do what we're told in Scripture to do and test all things? Brian Houston has made his position on Islam very clear since his words were taken out of context. It has been aired in various places, e.g. on the Hillsong Facebook page, in Christianity Today and on the Hillsong website and are not at all difficult to find. It's always wise to check whether what you hear is in fact as it was reported. Here's how Houston responded: http://hillsong.com/media/2014-march-correction.

 

[PeterJens]

​I don't know that Jesus and the cross are missed by the opposing camps

The ultra reformed groups who deny emotions have any part to play, end up trying to use theology and faith, by repeating the words like mantra's with the hope it will change them. It can end up being like a set of prayer wheels where the words if applied have great power but just speaking them is not enough.

The other side is too much in mystical experience, where emotion defines validity, where if people start feeling something it must be real. Here theology tends to follow whatever justifies the behaviour of the preachers, and things are just invented to make sense of the world.

Hillsong's leader, Brian Houston extended an idea from how within christianity there are themes between the old and new covenants, which could be extended into Christianity and Islam. Trouble is this does not work.

I saw a write up of this theology and knew it was wrong from beginning to end. You will now find it has actually been removed, and the only location for it is at HillSongChurchWatch. Now for a pastor to be this far off, speaks a lot about the integrity of the work the movement is following.

Now if people want to believe that either position is just a minor issue, then they should question who they are actually following, because both are a denial of Jesus and his love working within the believer.

By the way Brian Houston words are not taken out of context at all, he just did not know what he was talking about.

 

[PeterJens]

Listened to Brians Houston sermon. He wanted to build everything on having a purpose. The purpose is x, and because that is your purpose you fail if you do not fulfill it. So God is your ideal, so you copy what he wants, you love what he loves, you do this because he does this etc. Ofcourse then if your God is legalistic, you are legalistic, if he is free, you are free.

No, Jesus comes to us and offers us love, un-requited love, an open door, acceptance from the Living God. And His trade is we let him rebuild us because we admit we have failed to live as we wanted to or should have. This is our foundation, the cross.
We do not fail because we do not fit a purpose rather we exist, we love, we obey. God made us to be His friends, to be brothers and sisters, to be family. The sad truth is without love in our hearts we are chaff to be blown in the wind, burnt in the fire, of no ultimate value or use.

What stands as a testimony against this whole sermon, it missed this essential reality of what our problem really is, and it is not getting a purpose, it is about becoming part of Gods family.