REFORMED?

[SovereignGrace]

All sins of every person saved or unsaved were forgiven through Jesus' sacrifice of Himself on the cross.

BUT, THAT FORGIVENESS DOES NOT EXTEND to the person who committed them unless or until the person who committed them acknowledges the Lordship (Ownership) of Jesus.


The unsaved are those who reject Jesus' ownership as a result of His sacrifice on the cross.

Brother, if all sins are forgiven, then they're saved. No one whose sins are forgiven will go to hell. Why can't ppl see this?

Either the cross saves or it does not. If we add one thing to this cross, then its the cross + what we did that saves us. The cross, or rather He who hung, bled & died upon it, saved me. I added nothing to this. The only thing I 'brought' to the cross was my sins, as they were imputed to the Christ, who bore them, suffered for them, to save me.

 

[Magenta]

Brother, if all sins are forgiven, then they're saved. No one whose sins are forgiven will go to hell. Why can't ppl see this?

Either the cross saves or it does not. If we add one thing to this cross, then its the cross + what we did that saves us. The cross, or rather He who hung, bled & died upon it, saved me. I added nothing to this. The only thing I 'brought' to the cross was my sins, as they were imputed to the Christ, who bore them, suffered for them, to save me.

You repented of your rebellion (of the flesh) against God and believed the gospel, which led to being born again of the Spirit Those who do not repent and believe are not saved, and their names are blotted out of the Lamb's book of life, and will pass into the second death following the resurrection and judgment of all, for they remain of the flesh, which counts for nothing; without faith, it is impossible to please God.

 

[MarcR]

Brother, if all sins are forgiven, then they're saved. No one whose sins are forgiven will go to hell. Why can't ppl see this?

Either the cross saves or it does not. If we add one thing to this cross, then its the cross + what we did that saves us. The cross, or rather He who hung, bled & died upon it, saved me. I added nothing to this. The only thing I 'brought' to the cross was my sins, as they were imputed to the Christ, who bore them, suffered for them, to save me.

The sins were paid for conditionally NOT unconditionally.

 

[SovereignGrace]

The sins were paid for conditionally NOT unconditionally.

And what conditions have we met for Him to save us?

 

[MarcR]

The sins were paid for conditionally NOT unconditionally.

Think of it like a codicil on a will. The benefits are available to the one to whom they are offered but only on the terms of the person giving them.

 

[shrume]

And what conditions have we met for Him to save us?

About the least thing He could require of us: Faith.

 

[SovereignGrace]

You repented of your rebellion (of the flesh) against God and believed the gospel, which led to being born again of the Spirit Those who do not repent and believe are not saved, and their names are blotted out of the Lamb's book of life, and will pass into the second death following the resurrection and judgment of all, for they remain of the flesh, which counts for nothing; without faith, it is impossible to please God.

And seeing repentance is a gift of God, we repent the moment we are born again. Being born again is not conversion, but they both happen at the same exact time.

One isn't born again w/o being saved and one isn't saved w/o being born again. Ordo salutis.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Think of it like a codicil on a will. The benefits are available to the one to whom they are offered but only on the terms of the person giving them.

What you're avering is the cross doesn't save. It only makes ppl savable. Not being snarky, but that's the logical conclusion here.

 

[Depleted]

This is pretty sad... I've told you before that I am not your enemy, but if you want to make me out to be one in your mind, then have at it...I can tell that I am occupying a lot of space there...

Think what you will and say what you want. I do not agree with you and that is that.

Now as far as me being able to have an open discussion with a Calvinist, what I said was the truth...Her and I think maybe one other person actually talked to me about it in their own words without throwing me a few half verses here and there or telling me to go look up what Calvin or some of his cohorts taught.

Now back to our first encounter on it, I'll agree that everything was going fine and well between us, but when I asked your thoughts on it and stated mine you went off calling me names. So yeah, you got rude and I got rude...Thing about that is, I even apologized to you for being rude back to you...which you totally ignored...

I've done all I can do with it...I've apologized to you, forgiven you for your part in it , and that is all I can do about it...so the rest is on you.

It is what it is and that's really all I need to say about it because I already feel like a total tool for even replying and putting all this stuff out here.

If you were truly sorry, you wouldn't keep spreading the same propaganda over and over again.

It really doesn't matter if you agree with us or not. What does matter is you keep telling what you want about us that is NOT the truth and then seemed surprised when you're called on it.

It looks like this.

"All boys have cooties."

"Well, I'm a boy and I don't have cooties."

"Oh, wow. I didn't know there were boys who didn't have cooties."

And then the next day,

"There is something wrong with boys. They all have cooties."

"I told you. I'm a boy and don't have cooties."

"Oh, I'm sorry."

Next day,

"The problem with boys is they all have cooties."

And then you feel like a tool because enough boys tell you they don't have cooties? Easy solution. Stop saying all boys have cooties. Most boys don't have cooties. I'm sure some boys have cooties, however, the vast majority of the group called "boys" (Calvinists) don't have cooties, (don't think there is no reason to witness because God already chose, and don't think God is cruel for not choosing everyone, because truthfully, you know God isn't bringing everyone to him either.)

Until you stop spreading those falsehoods, I'm calling you on it. I responded the first time something like NotOurOwn did, (but she did it in a gentler way), and you were kind in your response. But I was there the next day when you said the same thing again. And I was here when you brought the same charges yet again.

We can get past this, even if you never believe in God's complete sovereignty. (It's a hard thing to learn and accept.) But "I'm sorry" when you keep repeating the same things doesn't cut it. When you're sorry enough to stop, (or at least try to stop), I will forgive.

 

[SovereignGrace]

The sins were paid for conditionally NOT unconditionally.

So, conditional forgiveness? Where's this taught in the bible?

 

[Magenta]

And seeing repentance is a gift of God, we repent the moment we are born again. Being born again is not conversion, but they both happen at the same exact time.

One isn't born again w/o being saved and one isn't saved w/o being born again. Ordo salutis.

Why did Jesus ask us to repent if repentance is a gift? It is how He began His earthly ministry. Acts teaches repentance, too, that WE should repent, not that we accept it as a gift. First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and then to the Gentiles, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and demonstrate their repentance by their deeds. Acts 26:20

 

[shrume]

And seeing repentance is a gift of God

The gift is salvation, not repentance (Rom 6:23). We receive that gift when we have faith in the gospel.

we repent the moment we are born again.

We are born again when we hear the gospel and choose to believe it (Eph 1:13; Rom 10:9).

 

[SovereignGrace]

You repented of your rebellion (of the flesh) against God and believed the gospel, which led to being born again of the Spirit Those who do not repent and believe are not saved, and their names are blotted out of the Lamb's book of life, and will pass into the second death following the resurrection and judgment of all, for they remain of the flesh, which counts for nothing; without faith, it is impossible to please God.

The bible is replete with natural events that prove scriptural truths.

Look at Lazarus in his tomb in John 11. He's been dead 4 days. In and of himself, he has no hope of ever living again. He can not exercise any will to will himself to life. No one around him can roll the stone away and persuade him to exercise his will and come out. Then steps in the Christ. He yells "Lazarus come out!!!!" Lazarus comes out alive.

This is how it is when God brings ppl to saving faith. They hear the gospel, He then quickens(regenerates) them via these words, and they exercise faith and repentance and voila, salvation. Faith and repentance is evidence of salvation, not the cause of it.

 

[MarcR]

What you're avering is the cross doesn't save. It only makes ppl savable. Not being snarky, but that's the logical conclusion here.

1 Co 6:19-20
19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
KJV

The condition is that the forgiveness extends only to those who by faith acknowledge Jesus as Lord.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Why did Jesus ask us to repent if repentance is a gift? It is how He began His earthly ministry. Acts teaches repentance, too, that WE should repent, not that we accept it as a gift. First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and then to the Gentiles, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and demonstrate their repentance by their deeds. Acts 26:20

When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, “Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life.”[Acts 11:18]

He is the one whom God exalted to His right hand as a Prince and a Savior, to grant repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.[Acts 5:31]

Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?[Romans 2:4]

I now rejoice, not that you were made sorrowful, but that you were made sorrowful to the point of repentance; for you were made sorrowful according to the will of God, so that you might not suffer loss in anything through us. For the sorrow that is according to the will of God produces a repentance without regret, leading to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death.[2 Corinthians 7:9,10]

In all of these verses, it clearly shows it is God who gifts repentance to those He has chosen to gift it to.

 

[SovereignGrace]

1 Co 6:19-20
19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
KJV

The condition is that the forgiveness extends only to those who by faith acknowledge Jesus as Lord.

Nope. Forgiveness is extended to those who the Christ died for.

Seeing not everyone has faith, and that faith is a gift of God, you've backed yourself in a corner my Brother.

 

[SovereignGrace]

1 Co 6:19-20
19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
KJV

The condition is that the forgiveness extends only to those who by faith acknowledge Jesus as Lord.

And if there are conditions we have to meet, then its no longer grace, but merit.

 

[preacher4truth]

te

The gift is salvation, not repentance (Rom 6:23).

Just throwing a text at it to make your argument look valid? That verses in no way supports what you stated.

Total fail.

Salvation, repentance, faith are all granted by God.

We receive that gift when we have faith in the gospel.

That would be called a reward, not a gift, since you believe you did something to receive something. Congrats!!! Or something.

We are born again when we hear the gospel and choose to believe it (Eph 1:13; Rom 10:9).

Yet another fail. None of those texts say or imply anything about choosing. Ephesians 1:19 shows and proves that the power to believe; 1) Comes from God; 2) Is the same power that raised Christ; 3) It is supernatural; 3) It is external, coming from God; 4) It is therefore not inherent, nor within man.

Romans 10:17 also expresses this same exact truth.
And, there are many other texts which show that man didn't will himself to believe by determination or volition.

But you won't have any of that Word of God truth stuff interfere with your Finneyism and Robert Sandeman tradition of decisional regeneration.

 

[SovereignGrace]

1 Co 6:19-20
19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
KJV

The condition is that the forgiveness extends only to those who by faith acknowledge Jesus as Lord.

Seeing that none understands, none seek Him, per Psalm 14 & Romans 3, how can ppl who are w/o faith(none with faith will not seek Him), acknowledge Jesus as Lord?

 

[preacher4truth]

1 Co 6:19-20
19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
KJV

The condition is that the forgiveness extends only to those who by faith acknowledge Jesus as Lord.

Brother, how in the world does that text support your statement that follows it?