REFORMED?
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So, basically, just as in the case of so many churches, REFORMED simply means what you, personally, intend it to mean.
If that is the case — and it often seems to be — then people really need not become upset with others when they assume that when someone says they are REFORMED, that it means the last thing they heard another state it meant........ pretty much, nothing in particular.
If that is the case — and it often seems to be — then people really need not become upset with others when they assume that when someone says they are REFORMED, that it means the last thing they heard another state it meant........ pretty much, nothing in particular.
That's cool .
I just use the term to show a general but not necessarily complete description of where I am coming from. Not who I am .
If you were to ask who I am I say I am Christian like many others here . We may disagree on stuff but we are in Christ brother . That's is What counts and is the most accurate.
Blessings
Bill
I just use the term to show a general but not necessarily complete description of where I am coming from. Not who I am .
If you were to ask who I am I say I am Christian like many others here . We may disagree on stuff but we are in Christ brother . That's is What counts and is the most accurate.
Blessings
Bill
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Your assumptions on your first post were correct and rightly so.
Your assumptions on your first post were correct and rightly so.
There is no need to continue promoting this fallacy. Every sinner who hears the Gospel MUST repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. So only those who "obey the Gospel" are saved. Since all will not obey the Gospel all will not be saved. By the same token if all would obey the Gospel, all would be saved. And the Lord Jesus Christ actually taught this in the context of John 3:16, but the Calvinists simply brushed it aside. So please note carefully.
ALL COULD BE SAVED
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. (John 3:17)
BUT ALL WILL NOT BE SAVED
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. (John 3:18,19)
ALL COULD BE SAVED
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. (John 3:17)
BUT ALL WILL NOT BE SAVED
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. (John 3:18,19)
Since this is a personal attack, I will have no choice other than to report it to the moderators. However, for those who might be curious, I will also post an excerpt from Spurgeon that shows that while on one hand he said he was a Calvinist, on the other hand His sermons could not avoid preaching that the offer of salvation was to all who would repent and believe. So kindly read carefully what he says:
QUOTED FROM “PLENTEOUS REDEMPTION” (Sermon #351, December 16, 1860).
Christ has redeemed the souls of all His people who shall ultimately be saved. To state it after the
Calvinistic form, Christ has redeemed His elect. But since you do not know His elect until they are revealed, we will alter that and say, Christ has redeemed all penitent souls; Christ has redeemed all believing souls; and Christ has redeemed the souls of all those who die in infancy—seeing it is to be received that all those who die in infancy are written in the Lamb’s book of life, and are graciously privileged by God to go at once to heaven—instead of toiling through this weary world. The souls of all those who were written before all worlds in the Lamb’s book of life, who in process of time are humbled before God, who in due course are led to lay hold of Christ Jesus as the only refuge of their souls, who hold on their way and ultimately attain to heaven—these, I believe were redeemed—and I most firmly and solemnly believe the souls of no other men were in that sense subjects of Christ’s redemption....
And, now, a word or two concerning the last thought—“PLENTEOUS REDEMPTION.”... It is “plenteous” when we consider the millions who have been redeemed. Think, if you can, how
great that host who have already washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. And then think how many now with weary feet are plodding their way to paradise—all of them redeemed— they all shall sit down at the marriage supper of the Lamb! Is it not “plenteous redemption” when you reflect that it is a “multitude that no man can number,” that will be gathered in? Let us close that by saying, “And why not you?” If so many are redeemed, why should not you be? Why should you not seek for mercy on the strength of that, knowing that all who seek will most assuredly receive, for they would not have sought unless it had been prepared for them?
Since there would have been a multitude of sinners in his audience, he says to anyone and everyone "And why not you?" Although in good conscience he should have added "But only if you are one of the elect".
QUOTED FROM “PLENTEOUS REDEMPTION” (Sermon #351, December 16, 1860).
Christ has redeemed the souls of all His people who shall ultimately be saved. To state it after the
Calvinistic form, Christ has redeemed His elect. But since you do not know His elect until they are revealed, we will alter that and say, Christ has redeemed all penitent souls; Christ has redeemed all believing souls; and Christ has redeemed the souls of all those who die in infancy—seeing it is to be received that all those who die in infancy are written in the Lamb’s book of life, and are graciously privileged by God to go at once to heaven—instead of toiling through this weary world. The souls of all those who were written before all worlds in the Lamb’s book of life, who in process of time are humbled before God, who in due course are led to lay hold of Christ Jesus as the only refuge of their souls, who hold on their way and ultimately attain to heaven—these, I believe were redeemed—and I most firmly and solemnly believe the souls of no other men were in that sense subjects of Christ’s redemption....
And, now, a word or two concerning the last thought—“PLENTEOUS REDEMPTION.”... It is “plenteous” when we consider the millions who have been redeemed. Think, if you can, how
great that host who have already washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. And then think how many now with weary feet are plodding their way to paradise—all of them redeemed— they all shall sit down at the marriage supper of the Lamb! Is it not “plenteous redemption” when you reflect that it is a “multitude that no man can number,” that will be gathered in? Let us close that by saying, “And why not you?” If so many are redeemed, why should not you be? Why should you not seek for mercy on the strength of that, knowing that all who seek will most assuredly receive, for they would not have sought unless it had been prepared for them?
Since there would have been a multitude of sinners in his audience, he says to anyone and everyone "And why not you?" Although in good conscience he should have added "But only if you are one of the elect".
Well then stop whilst you can.
Agreed. However, those who truly repent are those who have been gifted repentance.
When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, “Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life.”[Acts 11:18]
He is the one whom God exalted to His right hand as a Prince and a Savior, to grant repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.[Acts 5:31]
Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?[Romans 2:4]
I now rejoice, not that you were made sorrowful, but that you were made sorrowful to the point of repentance; for you were made sorrowful according to the will of God, so that you might not suffer loss in anything through us. For the sorrow that is according to the will of God produces a repentance without regret, leading to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death.[2 Corinthians 7:9,10]
In all of these verses, it clearly shows it is God who gifts repentance to those He has chosen to gift it to.
Not all have the ears to hear the gospel. These are those who God justly left to themselves.
Agreed. However, those who truly repent are those who have been gifted repentance.
When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, “Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life.”[Acts 11:18]
He is the one whom God exalted to His right hand as a Prince and a Savior, to grant repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.[Acts 5:31]
Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?[Romans 2:4]
I now rejoice, not that you were made sorrowful, but that you were made sorrowful to the point of repentance; for you were made sorrowful according to the will of God, so that you might not suffer loss in anything through us. For the sorrow that is according to the will of God produces a repentance without regret, leading to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death.[2 Corinthians 7:9,10]
In all of these verses, it clearly shows it is God who gifts repentance to those He has chosen to gift it to.
Not all have the ears to hear the gospel. These are those who God justly left to themselves.
He is the propitiation, not a potential propitiation. Now, in this propitiation, it satisfied God's wrath. If Jesus literally propitiated God on behalf of the whole world, i.e. everybody whoever lived, then God's wrath for everybody whoever lived is no longer there. If its no longer there, then in the day of judgment, all go to heaven. The cross of the Christ is efficacious, and does not make everybody savable, but saves those for whom the Christ died for, i.e. the elect of God.
And if He literally take the world's sin away, i.e. everybody whoever lived, then everybody whoever lived goes to heaven. Their sins are no longer there, as He has taken them away. There's no getting around this Brother Marc. If one holds to a universal atonement, one must hold to universalism. The cross is that efficacious.
Spurgeon said the Christ did not make any effectual atonement for the non-elect...me paraphrasing that. That's what he meant.
Look at another verse that gets misapplied.
namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation. [2 Corinthians 5:19]
Now, ppl when they read that quickly say Jesus is reconciling the world, meaning He is leaving no one out. One huge problem, as there is a 2,000 lb purple elephant that needs to be addressed...'not counting their trespasses against them'. Now, if this is universal in its scope, then no one's sins are held against them, and all go to heaven.
Reconciliation means to make two enemies friends. So, if the Christ is reconciling the world to Himself, i.e. everybody whoever lived, then everybody whoever lived is saved. To hold to a universal atonement means you must hold to universalism to remain consistent with one's belief(s).
And if He literally take the world's sin away, i.e. everybody whoever lived, then everybody whoever lived goes to heaven. Their sins are no longer there, as He has taken them away. There's no getting around this Brother Marc. If one holds to a universal atonement, one must hold to universalism. The cross is that efficacious.
Spurgeon said the Christ did not make any effectual atonement for the non-elect...me paraphrasing that. That's what he meant.
Look at another verse that gets misapplied.
namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation. [2 Corinthians 5:19]
Now, ppl when they read that quickly say Jesus is reconciling the world, meaning He is leaving no one out. One huge problem, as there is a 2,000 lb purple elephant that needs to be addressed...'not counting their trespasses against them'. Now, if this is universal in its scope, then no one's sins are held against them, and all go to heaven.
Reconciliation means to make two enemies friends. So, if the Christ is reconciling the world to Himself, i.e. everybody whoever lived, then everybody whoever lived is saved. To hold to a universal atonement means you must hold to universalism to remain consistent with one's belief(s).
You have no problem contradicting Scripture in order to continue believing your false doctrines. God left no one to themselves, and had He done so, He would be contradicting His own Word.
So why don't you simply sit down where you can meditate on Scripture, and meditate on these passages? But beyond that, BELIEVE what God has said.
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. (Matthew 28:18-20)
15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (Mark 16:15,16)
45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
48 And ye are witnesses of these things. (Luke 24:45-48)
So why don't you simply sit down where you can meditate on Scripture, and meditate on these passages? But beyond that, BELIEVE what God has said.
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. (Matthew 28:18-20)
15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (Mark 16:15,16)
45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
48 And ye are witnesses of these things. (Luke 24:45-48)
Personally., i can't figure out how God does it the whole predestination subject and free will subject. But I do know based on the Bible that God loved everyone and gave everyone an opportunity to accept His Son Jesus. But not everyone will. The reason people are going to hell is not because of all their many sins.,, but because they rejected Jesus Christ. He who has the Son has life... he who has not the Son of God has not life but the wrath of God abides on them John 3:36
[SUP]36 [/SUP]He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.