(Refuting Penal Substitution) Jesus Did NOT Satisfy the Wrath of God On The Cross!!

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NOV25

NOV25

Well-known member
#62
Nov 23, 2019
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#62
Melach said:
dont worry this teaching is rare. no one teaches this not a single church in world. just few people in internet.
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Actually the teaching is quite popular. There's an author named NT Wright who teaches this same exact thing, very popular among false Christians. The OP sounds like it could be directly quoted from his writings lol.
Satan is a deceiver and a good one at that, if he wasn't nobody would fall for it.
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
#63
#63
NOV25 said:
Actually the teaching is quite popular. There's an author named NT Wright who teaches this same exact thing, very popular among false Christians. The OP sounds like it could be directly quoted from his writings lol.
Satan is a deceiver and a good one at that, if he wasn't nobody would fall for it.
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NT Wright view is not comparable to the OP at all.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#64
#64
SpiritDove05 said:
PEOPLE DONT LISTEN TO ME LISTEN 2 GOD, THE HOLY SPIRIT AND SCRIPTURE!! PRAY, FAST AND SEEK GOD EVERY SECOND AND HE WILL GUIDE U 2 TRUTH!! PROV 3:5-6
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We have,

that’s why we know you are wrong
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#65
#65
UnitedWithChrist said:
This is easily solved..Jesus didn't die for all mankind. He died for the elect.

Therefore, only those who come to faith and repentance are no longer under God's wrath.

This is clearly what Scripture teaches.

Universal atonement, which most free-willers believe in, may have an issue with this, but Reformed people who believe in limited atonement don't.

The non-elect are still under God's wrath and condemnation.

The elect are under God's wrath and condemnation until they repent and place their faith in Jesus.
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And this is just as wrong as the op
 
NOV25

NOV25

Well-known member
#66
Nov 23, 2019
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#66
EleventhHour said:
NT Wright view is not comparable to the OP at all.
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“Christ died in the place of sinners is closer to the pagan idea of an angry deity being pacified by a human death than it is to anything in either Israel’s Scriptures or the New Testament.” NT. Wright.

Seems pretty clear to me.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#67
#67
NOV25 said:
“Christ died in the place of sinners is closer to the pagan idea of an angry deity being pacified by a human death than it is to anything in either Israel’s Scriptures or the New Testament.” NT. Wright.

Seems pretty clear to me.
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Wow, thanks! Would never have guessed it
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
#68
#68
NOV25 said:
“Christ died in the place of sinners is closer to the pagan idea of an angry deity being pacified by a human death than it is to anything in either Israel’s Scriptures or the New Testament.” NT. Wright.

Seems pretty clear to me.
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I am not stating I agree with NT Wright my point is his view and the OP view are in no way similar.

If the OP is a follower of Morrell then he teaches a vicarious substituition, governmental atonement ...where the apple takes the place of the orange.

In the penal substitution view the apple is the orange.

NT Wright tends to stress the cross as an act of love over wrath.

So I see no connection.
 
NOV25

NOV25

Well-known member
#69
Nov 23, 2019
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#69
NT. Wright clearly denies penal substitution as does the OP right in the title. The connection is plainly visible 🙈
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
#70
#70
NOV25 said:
NT. Wright clearly denies penal substitution as does the OP right in the title. The connection is plainly visible 🙈
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For different reasons.

I think to refute something you need to understand the position
But no matter.
 
NOV25

NOV25

Well-known member
#71
Nov 23, 2019
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#71
EleventhHour said:
For different reasons.
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Thats the hook, thats where he gets ya. Islam denies substitutionary atonement by Jesus in one way, Jehovah witness deny it in their way, Mormons in theirs and NT Wright in his own way, all different ways but for the same reason.🔥
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#72
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
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#72
NOV25 said:
Thats the hook, thats where he gets ya. Islam denies substitutionary atonement by Jesus in one way, Jehovah witness deny it in their way, Mormons in theirs and NT Wright in his own way, all different ways but for the same reason.🔥
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Whenever there is an attack on the finished work of Christ (directly or indirectly) Christians can be sure that Satan is behind it. Satan hates God's plan of salvation which keeps souls from descending into eternal Hell. And he uses theologians like NT Wright to attack the truth.
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
#73
#73
NOV25 said:
Thats the hook, thats where he gets ya. Islam denies substitutionary atonement by Jesus in one way, Jehovah witness deny it in their way, Mormons in theirs and NT Wright in his own way, all different ways but for the same reason.🔥
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No hook.... when I was told about the Gospel he took every erroneous view of mine, which he clearly understood well and showed me where it was wrong.

I respected that he just didn't shut down my view and but had the patience to show me the flaws because he had studied it out.

Anyway if you cannot see my point that is okay.
 
UnitedWithChrist

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
#74
Aug 12, 2019
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#74
eternally-gratefull said:
And this is just as wrong as the op
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Elaborate please.

What do you think is wrong?

If your issue is election, the Bible clearly teaches it, and those that deny election are simply closing their eyes to the facts.

But that is not the major problem with his teaching.

The major problem is that we have individuals within the Church which simply deny that unbelievers are under the wrath of God and facing impending condemnation.

They will suffer the fury of almighty God in eternal punishment if they do not place their faith in Christ and repent.

This is simple Bible teaching. Start reading Romans. John.jpg
 
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Brandnewday

Banned
#75
Mar 5, 2020
485
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#75
SpiritDove05 said:
We obviously know dat Gods wrath is his cup of indignation.

did jesus satisfy the wrath of God? Know don’t be 2 hasty and comment based opinions, on what ur church has taught u, wat uv herd off the pulpit or wat manly tradition says, if u look (deep) into the bible you wont find where jesus (satify’s) or drinks from the cup of Gods wrath.

John 18:11

Then said Jesus unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?
Ull Only find where jesus provided a substitute 2 wave Gods wrath instead, there 2 different things, Gods wrath still remains just look at scripture,

Revelation 14:9-10 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

Acts 12:23 God smote king herod for not giving him glory.

Acts 5 Ananias and Sapphira struck down dead for holding back the money from God!!
R
omans 1:18 the wrath of God is revealed from heaven

Romans 2:5-8 they treasure up wrath for the day of judgment!!

Colossians 3:6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
So we sea throughout the new testament especially revelations where Gods wrath is being poured out onto sinners with the releasing of the seals.
Cup of Gods wrath has not been emptied, Cup of wrath is still full folks even after the cross.

If Gods wrath was satisfied at the cross then why is he still pouring out his wrath on people?
If jesus satisified the wrath of God theres no more need of forgiveness of sins, jesus would have paid off our debt. But yet God still requires servitude,

obedience because our debts havnt completely gone he just turns his face at them, matt 6:12 father forgive us our debts.
Through Christ we have the forgiveness of sin they God may have mercy on us, not that they’ve vanish away.

If all sins are paid 4 then theres no more mercy 2 give, mercy is when God doesn’t give us wat we deserve, its when he turns away from giving us wrath like the Passover, the death of pharaohs 1st borns!!

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I tell my kids all the time and they listen. Don't invest overmuch in texting people or you'll get in the habit and forget how to use proper English and grammar.
I'm emailing them the copy of this bunch of stuff above my reply here to show them dad knows what he's talking about.
 
NOV25

NOV25

Well-known member
#76
Nov 23, 2019
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386
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#76
UnitedWithChrist said:
Elaborate please.

What do you think is wrong?

If your issue is election, the Bible clearly teaches it, and those that deny election are simply closing their eyes to the facts.

But that is not the major problem with his teaching.

The major problem is that we have individuals within the Church which simply deny that unbelievers are under the wrath of God and facing impending condemnation.

They will suffer the fury of almighty God in eternal punishment if they do not place their faith in Christ and repent.

This is simple Bible teaching. Start reading Romans. View attachment 212822
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Tears literally rolling down my face. Thanks for that.
 
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