Refuting The Cessationism Doctrine: Spiritual Gifts, Tongues, Miracles Haven’t Ceased Since Pentecost!!

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Dave-L

Well-known member
Jan 17, 2020
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Oh, yeah, and Paul. Oh, and those Paul laid his hands on. Keep moving the goal post. That's the problem with trying to make a doctrine out of a set of facts in scripture without considering the other facts. You have to keep moving the goal post... except for this. Except for that. Except for the Gentiles in Cornelius' house. Except for Paul. Except for those he laid hands on.

The exceptions disprove your rule, which the Bible doesn't teach anyway. You are trying to make a rule out of some examples without considering the others, then treating the ones that don't fit your rule as exceptions when people point them out.
You add to scripture if you paint in your doctrine. Typical Pentecostal beliefs cannot find support in scripture. If so, lay it out.
 

Dave-L

Well-known member
Jan 17, 2020
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No, I did NOT have the Holy Spirit indwelling me BEFORE I believed in Yeshua/Jesus as Savior.

AFTER the baptism of the Holy Spirit, He feeds me the Word of God and gives me understanding and eventually, I bear fruit - the Fruit of the Holy Spirit which is love, joy, peace, long-suffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness and temperance.
The flesh cannot believe in the true Christ. Only in a false Christ within its range of comprehension.
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
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bro! ur what the bible says, has been blinded by traditions of man, theres no cut off date 4 spiritual gifts are u kidding me? go read ur bible man, and joel is talking about all nations!! read acts 2:17
So, then read the context of joel. God gave Joel the prophecie for the folk of Israel and not for gentiles in the year 1901. Of course you can use Gods word out of context as you want. But then you must not wonder if people dont believe you. And maby the result you then claim may be wrong.
 

wolfwint

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Feb 15, 2014
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That is not true historically since there was at least one group in the 1800s that saw things pretty much the same way and various groups of churches that spoke in tongues. There was even speaking in tongues in Methodist revivals and I read one reference among early new light baptists.

There are some references to speaking in tongue throughout history, but many more references to visions, healing, prophesying. The second century churches had prophesying in the meetings. At least some of them, since there are references to it.
You mean the montanism? That was a cult. That God was acting in the churchhistory through healings and prophecie till today i believe Also in revivals. But what I read f.e. in 1. Cor. 12 and 14 i cant find in the churchhistory in the churches practised, as in the church of corinth. This only came up in 1901 with the teaching of the baptism with the Holy Spirit and as proof for this the speaking in tongues. And this teaching I cant find in NT nor in churchhistory before 1901.
 

garee

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Mar 28, 2016
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I have pointed out to you numerous times that Paul says that he that speaks in tongues edifies himself and 'I would that ye all spake with tongues.' Therefore, self-edification is not an evil thing. You interpret it to refer to self-pride. You clearly misinterpret the scriptures. Isaiah wrote of those whose ears were dull of hearing.
That verse whose ears were dull of hearing points to those self-edifiers.

The ones whose ears were dull of hearing are shown as those who "fall backward". as sign of unbelief. No faith that exclusively coming as it is written .


Using the oral tradition of men making the word of God's prophecy to no effect .Mocking the authority of the word. as in Jeremiah 44. Men who refuse to hear the word but rather do whatsoever their own mouth declares as laws of men.

like men making noises and falling backward hoping someone will catch as part of the corporate self edifying work. The Bible the kind of traditions that represent his word . Christian fall forward .


Tongues is prophecy the gospel of Christ as it is written. Its called our new tongue coming from our new hearts and mind. .It is the power of God we have in these earthen bodies the power that removes the power of the father of lies. (not of us) but rather the unseen eternal that works to strengthen .

Three times the Son man Jesus as a prophet declared the will of the father. . . . . as it is written . The church is to edify Christ . not seen .He has established that witness with the new ceremonial law. . . a shadow to the world of the coming of the bride.(1 Corinthians 11)

Adding new as oral traditions of men make his tradition without effect by adding a new. supporting two authors as if it was one. Did God really say?

When Aaron's two sons performed that work of "self edifying" called "strange fire" .they were judged and they died. Aaron's two sons were like those who do fall backward as the spirit of judgement.

Studying the foundation of the doctrine of tongues as to why God has given us a sign of those who fall backward can aid in the 1 Corinthian 14 understanding .where it speaks of the law in Isaiah not subject to change after the traditions of men

Sola scriptura as it is written alone to them was like baby talk. they in their minds thought they graduated to a new level above the word of God.

But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.Wherefore hear the word of the Lord, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.Isaiah 28:13-14

The apostles prayed for God to stretch forth his hands and do signs and wonders for the sake of Jesus. Their motive was not unbelief. There is no law in the Bible forbidding the righteous from requesting a sign for a righteous purpose. Or do you think the Bible is an imperfect law?

Jesus said it a evil generation Natural unconverted mankind that seek after the things seen and calling it faith.


The last sign and wonder or wonderment source of future was the sign of Jonas .Jesus fulfilled it. Jonas is used as a type in that parable to represent the Son of man Jesus.

Luke 11:29 And when the people were gathered thick together, he began to say, This is an evil generation: they seek a sign; and there shall no sign be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet.

The same kind of generation that makes Jesus as a circus seal. Do a miracle then after we see we will commit our faith and not edify our own self .

John 4:48 Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.

John 6:30 They said therefore unto
him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
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Ha, I am the church and I'm grafted in .. Peter defined it, right ?
So you ignore the prophecie which God gave to Israel. You can do, i do not. I believe it.
 

bojack

Well-known member
Dec 16, 2019
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So you ignore the prophecie which God gave to Israel. You can do, i do not. I believe it.
What did Peter say about Joel, he said ''this is it'' .. What do you think he meant ?
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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So, then read the context of joel. God gave Joel the prophecie for the folk of Israel and not for gentiles in the year 1901. Of course you can use Gods word out of context as you want. But then you must not wonder if people dont believe you. And maby the result you then claim may be wrong.
Not all Israel is born again Israel Some are hoping their flesh has something to do with salvation .

It would seem the prophecy of God coming through Joel was a fulfillment of the Old testament. At Pentecost as a picture to the whole world. God revealed he is the God of all nations and not a respecter of persons. His new kingdom of priests as men and woman. Just as in the time of Judges Our father reigning from heaven as King. The time of reformation has come.

That which the eyes see the temporal stood in the holy eternal place of God as a abomination of desolation.It was removed when Jesus said it is finished.The 70 ft high veil was torn from heaven to earth . never to rise. One demonstration. No Zippers
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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You mean the montanism? That was a cult. That God was acting in the churchhistory through healings and prophecie till today i believe Also in revivals. But what I read f.e. in 1. Cor. 12 and 14 i cant find in the churchhistory in the churches practised, as in the church of corinth. This only came up in 1901 with the teaching of the baptism with the Holy Spirit and as proof for this the speaking in tongues. And this teaching I cant find in NT nor in churchhistory before 1901.
Your writing is not very comprehensible, almost as if you were arguing against one of your previous positions. You believe prophesying occured during revivals?

In Eusebius' Ecclesiastical History, he writes about a debate between a Montanist and a Christian held some time after Montanus died. The Montanus argued that prophecy had died off with Montanus, Priscilla, and Maximilla. But the Christian he was debating said that prophecy still continued because the apostle said that prophecy would continue until the Lord returned.

Cessationism as a doctrinal position is the later philosophy. Cessationist arguments goes back only a few hundred years.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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What did Peter say about Joel, he said ''this is it'' .. What do you think he meant ?
If you read what Peter taught and what Joel taught you will see that the holy Spirit was poured out on all flesh but he goes on to say your sons, your daughters, your young men and your old men not all sons, daughters, young men and old men. Also the signs in the heavens were not yet fulfilled. Acts 2:19-20 are not yet fulfilled. The prophesy and dreams were to specific people in that they were for Israel not the whole world.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

bojack

Well-known member
Dec 16, 2019
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If you read what Peter taught and what Joel taught you will see that the holy Spirit was poured out on all flesh but he goes on to say your sons, your daughters, your young men and your old men not all sons, daughters, young men and old men. Also the signs in the heavens were not yet fulfilled. Acts 2:19-20 are not yet fulfilled. The prophesy and dreams were to specific people in that they were for Israel not the whole world.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
What did God show Peter about Cornelius ?
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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If you read what Peter taught and what Joel taught you will see that the holy Spirit was poured out on all flesh but he goes on to say your sons, your daughters, your young men and your old men not all sons, daughters, young men and old men. Also the signs in the heavens were not yet fulfilled. Acts 2:19-20 are not yet fulfilled. The prophesy and dreams were to specific people in that they were for Israel not the whole world.
In I Corinthians 12, spiritual gifts are for former pagans--Gentiles-- too.


Job lived in the land of Uz, which at one point in time was Edomite country. The book does not call him or his friends Israelites. The book of Job tells us how God warns men in dreams. God communicated to various Gentiles in dreams in scripture-- Pharaoh, Nebucadnezzer, and someone in a tent in a Midianite tent.
 

7seasrekeyed

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2017
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The flesh cannot believe in the true Christ. Only in a false Christ within its range of comprehension.

you are still flesh, no?

if you are in Christ, then your spirit has been made alive

God does NOT give His Spirit to the unsaved

utter nonsense and not supported by scripture
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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In I Corinthians 12, spiritual gifts are for former pagans--Gentiles-- too.


Job lived in the land of Uz, which at one point in time was Edomite country. The book does not call him or his friends Israelites. The book of Job tells us how God warns men in dreams. God communicated to various Gentiles in dreams in scripture-- Pharaoh, Nebucadnezzer, and someone in a tent in a Midianite tent.
How does that relate to what is present day activities? Joel 2 is written with promise to Israel not the entire world.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
13,315
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Your writing is not very comprehensible, almost as if you were arguing against one of your previous positions. You believe prophesying occured during revivals?

In Eusebius' Ecclesiastical History, he writes about a debate between a Montanist and a Christian held some time after Montanus died. The Montanus argued that prophecy had died off with Montanus, Priscilla, and Maximilla. But the Christian he was debating said that prophecy still continued because the apostle said that prophecy would continue until the Lord returned.

Cessationism as a doctrinal position is the later philosophy. Cessationist arguments goes back only a few hundred years.
Arguing against one of my previous positions?

Yes, men declare the word of God during what they call revivals. If they add to it its called a oral traditions. Some added snakes and died other fall backward to show they are under the judgement of the Holy Spirit.

Prophecy the tongue of God declaring His will ended after the spoke the last word. Amen
men have been trying to make claims they have broken the 7 seals and are adding. In order to puff them selves up above as it is written. But I would rather but the truth and sell it out for a little false pride.(self edification)

Are there any laws missing in the book of the law the bible by which we could know him more adequately?

Why would a believer desire more that he has revealed? Whats the hope? Do they have the witness of the Spirit working in them?

Revelation 22: 21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

What comes next. Its been two thousand year ? Mohammed? Joeself Smith and the golden plates of new prophecy ?

The elect will not be deceived they believe the warning that came before hand .When they try the Spirit John is the cut off.

Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Behold, I have told you before. Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.Mathew 24: 23-27
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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Everyone was not written down .
Exactly! That means God did not intend every prophetic word to become part of Scripture.

He said to Peter if every time he performed a work of his faith and it was written down the whole world could not hold the volumes.
You have it wrong on several levels. John wrote that: "And there are also many other things which Jesus did, which if they were written in detail, I suppose that even the world itself would not contain the books that would be written." (John 21:25). This has nothing to do with prophetic words, but about Jesus' actions while on earth. Context is key, as always.

Only the ones he moved the hands of men as a work of His faith working in them, to both will and perform his good pleasure are recorded. .
Again, it would be helpful if you took a class in basic English. The above is nonsense.

What did Philip's daughters prophecy? Genesis, Ruth ? Samuel? To prophecy is simply to declare his revealed will.( no loop holes in sola scriptura) )
Miss the point much? What they prophesied is not part of Scripture, yet the prophesied nonetheless. That means one can speak a prophetic word from God and it need not be considered an addition to Scripture. It's a simple concept.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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How does that relate to what is present day activities? Joel 2 is written with promise to Israel not the entire world.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
God's promises apply to all nations .If he made a promise to born again Israel she represent the whole of mankind the promise was to the world . No private prophecy to any nation. No need as if God was served by corruptible hands ..

Abraham is typified is the father of all nations. it has never been about the corrupted flesh of mankind. That is for those who do glory in the flesh .we do not glory in the flesh of any nation .To include the Christian nation of nations.

Even Jesus clearly informed us his flesh profits for nothing zero. It is the unseen Holy Spirit that pours out its spirit life on corrupted flesh