Refuting The Cessationism Doctrine: Spiritual Gifts, Tongues, Miracles Haven’t Ceased Since Pentecost!!

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garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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That means God did not intend every prophetic word to become part of Scripture.
Amen.

You have it wrong on several levels. John wrote that: "And there are also many other things which Jesus did, which if they were written in detail, I suppose that even the world itself would not contain the books that would be written." (John 21:25). This has nothing to do with prophetic words, but about Jesus' actions while on earth. Context is key, as always.
You have it wrong on the level of faith. Context is key, as always.

Prophetic words of prophecy provide prophetic actions as a living faith .

Miss the point much? What they prophesied is not part of Scripture, yet the prophesied nonetheless. That means one can speak a prophetic word from God and it need not be considered an addition to Scripture. It's a simple concept.
What they prophesy must of been prophecy or other wise it was false prophecy . Prophecy is not a blank check fill in what ever you think God might of said.

If its essential to our new born again faith of Christ that works in us that he moved men to write then there is nothing missing . It's a simple concept.

They simply did not write it down. I am sure it fits the other parameters that limit the word of a God as it is written .

Not being written down has no authority .It does not create a new possibility
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
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Not all Israel is born again Israel Some are hoping their flesh has something to do with salvation .

It would seem the prophecy of God coming through Joel was a fulfillment of the Old testament. At Pentecost as a picture to the whole world. God revealed he is the God of all nations and not a respecter of persons. His new kingdom of priests as men and woman. Just as in the time of Judges Our father reigning from heaven as King. The time of reformation has come.

That which the eyes see the temporal stood in the holy eternal place of God as a abomination of desolation.It was removed when Jesus said it is finished.The 70 ft high veil was torn from heaven to earth . never to rise. One demonstration. No Zippers
There is no hint that Israel lived in the past in the condition Joel describes. So is this still in the future.
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
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Your writing is not very comprehensible, almost as if you were arguing against one of your previous positions. You believe prophesying occured during revivals?

In Eusebius' Ecclesiastical History, he writes about a debate between a Montanist and a Christian held some time after Montanus died. The Montanus argued that prophecy had died off with Montanus, Priscilla, and Maximilla. But the Christian he was debating said that prophecy still continued because the apostle said that prophecy would continue until the Lord returned.

Cessationism as a doctrinal position is the later philosophy. Cessationist arguments goes back only a few hundred years.
Of course God is useing prophecie according his will. You can also call a preaching of Gods word prophecie. Montanism was found till 5th century.
I have not been at revivals. If gods word was preached why not prophecie?
In mission ministry we found that God makes miracles and healings. So that people turned to Christ.
But what I not found before 1901 is that particular teaching in the churches.
WHY CESSATIONISM came up? maby because the sign gifts were not to find in the churches in those time. And also not in the churchhistory. That God worked and used miracles in preaching the gospel is clear for me. But again this in an different to what is teached since 1901.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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You have it wrong on the level of faith.
You have provided nothing to support your assertion.

Prophetic words of prophecy provide prophetic actions as a living faith .
Meaningless bafflegab.

What they prophesy must of been prophecy or other wise it was false prophecy .
Take that to its logical conclusion: that they were genuine prophets, and did prophesy, and what they prophesied is not part of Scripture, meaning that not all prophecy is intended by God to be added to Scripture.

Prophecy is not a blank check fill in what ever you think God might of said.
Obviously.

They simply did not write it down.
Which means that it is not added to Scripture. Voila!

I am sure it fits the other parameters that limit the word of a God as it is written .
More meaningless bafflegab.

Not being written down has no authority .It does not create a new possibility
It means that not all genuine prophecy is written down to become Scripture, which in turn means that prophecy can be given by God today without God intending it to become a new part of Scripture. Grasping this simple concept seems difficult for you.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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There is no hint that Israel lived in the past in the condition Joel describes. So is this still in the future.
Israel is defined when renamed previously as Jacob as one who does wrestle against flesh and blood (the things seen" His name was changed to represent one who does have the power of God to overcome . The word Israel describes the action God takes . The last new name was when he re-named his bride in Acts previously called her Israel .Today is called by God not by men. . . Christian .A word that denoted residents of the heavenly city of Christ prepared as his one wife.

God is not served by corruptible human hands of any nation. Jacob as a deceiver is defined as one who wrestles against flesh and blood grasping the heel of the first born Esau . Jacob as a deceiver with the help of his mother in that example of deception. His name was changed to re present his new born again position ... who now is empowered with God (Emanuel) and does overcome having the born again strength in his earthen body of death

And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day. And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him. And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me. And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob. And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed. And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there. And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.Genesis 32:24-30

Face to face. . . Faith to faith .Faith as a work in us from the beginning. . . faith till the end .Understanding God not seen who give us His understanding or ears to hear his reasoning as a law of faith .

The faithless fool has said their heart. There is no God. Christians can do foolish things in unbelief or not hearing what the bible calls the "hearing of faith". They can try and finish it with a self edifying work but it could prove to be foolish as those who do walk by sight. He teaches us how to walk by faith

O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain. He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?Galatians 3:1-4

By the works of the law = The letter of death, not life. . . the law of faith or spirit of faith .
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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Take that to its logical conclusion: that they were genuine prophets, and did prophesy, and what they prophesied is not part of Scripture, meaning that not all prophecy is intended by God to be added to Scripture.
And what does that have to do with the Christians final authority "all things written in the law and prophets".

God is still moving people by the perfect. no voices of change .

Do these missing prophecies make the written without effect as a law of the faithless fathers . And as it is written becomes the heresy?

Sounds like the faithless Jews that turned things upside down to take away the understating of God. Seeing no profit in sola scriptura .

It is simply to limiting or some who have seem to out grow baby stuff. . they fall backward as a mocking self edifying sign to please themselves .

Paul was defending that which worked in Paul's defense. The armor of God . we defend it as it is written. It defends us.

Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me. But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:Acts 24:13-14

They simply wanted to self edify .Rather than as Paul who worshiped the God of the fathers. They worshiped the fathers as gods in the likeness of men .The pagan foundation (no faith) the same foundation of Catholicism.

Our hope. . sola scriptura the reforming authority in any generation any day of the week .

For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, (sola scriptura) and there a little: For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear. But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; (sola scriptura)that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.Isaiah 28: :10-13

I would think the warning in the following Chapter 29 applies

Woe unto them that seek deep to hide their counsel from the Lord, and their works are in the dark, and they say, Who seeth us? and who knoweth us? Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding? Isaiah 29:15 -16

No law against calling men like you heroes .Just adding or subtracting from the perfect.
 

Dino246

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Jun 30, 2015
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And what does that have to do with the Christians final authority "all things written in the law and prophets".

God is still moving people by the perfect. no voices of change .

Do these missing prophecies make the written without effect as a law of the faithless fathers . And as it is written becomes the heresy?

Sounds like the faithless Jews that turned things upside down to take away the understating of God. Seeing no profit in sola scriptura .

It is simply to limiting or some who have seem to out grow baby stuff. . they fall backward as a mocking self edifying sign to please themselves .

Paul was defending that which worked in Paul's defense. The armor of God . we defend it as it is written. It defends us.

Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me. But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:Acts 24:13-14

They simply wanted to self edify .Rather than as Paul who worshiped the God of the fathers. They worshiped the fathers as gods in the likeness of men .The pagan foundation (no faith) the same foundation of Catholicism.

Our hope. . sola scriptura the reforming authority in any generation any day of the week .

For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, (sola scriptura) and there a little: For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear. But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; (sola scriptura)that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.Isaiah 28: :10-13

I would think the warning in the following Chapter 29 applies

Woe unto them that seek deep to hide their counsel from the Lord, and their works are in the dark, and they say, Who seeth us? and who knoweth us? Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding? Isaiah 29:15 -16

No law against calling men like you heroes .Just adding or subtracting from the perfect.
It amazes me that you simply don't grasp what I've written. There is nothing in my posts that suggests any modern prophecy is above or equal to Scripture in authority, yet you consistently misrepresent my words and imply that I believe that. No understanding, indeed!
 

CS1

Moderator
May 23, 2012
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The gift of the Holy Spirit is for all believers. The Baptism of the Holy Spirit was only for the 12 Apostles and whom they laid hands on. Plus the gentiles in the outpouring in Acts 10.
lol completely unbiblical, even those who do not hold tongues for today don't agree with your statement.

You have been shown this in the word of God. Stephen was not an "Apostle" Cornelius was not one, Barnabas who laid hands on Paul was not an Apostle. IF you remember what John said in the Gospel of John Chapter 1:33 . he said

And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.


Jesus is the baptizer in the Holy Spirit not the Apostle. Jesus said in Luke 11:13

"If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?"

Your comment are becoming more bazaar by the moment.
 

Dave-L

Well-known member
Jan 17, 2020
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lol completely unbiblical, even those who do not hold tongues for today don't agree with your statement.

You have been shown this in the word of God. Stephen was not an "Apostle" Cornelius was not one, Barnabas who laid hands on Paul was not an Apostle. IF you remember what John said in the Gospel of John Chapter 1:33 . he said

And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.


Jesus is the baptizer in the Holy Spirit not the Apostle. Jesus said in Luke 11:13

"If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?"

Your comment are becoming more bazaar by the moment.
Find in Acts where any of what you say is true. And produce direct quotes from scripture saying so. You are adding to scripture unless you can prove it with scripture.

https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/the-holy-spirit-in-acts-according-to-acts.191024/ you need to disprove this.
 

Dave-L

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Jan 17, 2020
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There is no hint that Israel lived in the past in the condition Joel describes. So is this still in the future.
“For all the promises of God in him [Jesus] are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.” 2 Corinthians 1:20 (KJV 1900)

So nothing finds fulfillment apart from accepting him. In the NT Jesus is Israel along with believers only.
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
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I am aware that you are a drooling Pentecostal and unable to know what verse 8 is teaching because you refuse to believe it. You are an example of the seed that fell among the thorns and fails to grow to maturity. Mat 13

Your babbling will never produce knowledge. Without knowledge there is no understanding and no growth to wisdom.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Iow
You have no response to the verses.
Only juvenile personal attacks.
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
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Knowledge has ceased.

Too funny.

No....hilarious.

"I know knowledge has ceased with the other gifts"

Turns and leaves the room with a chuckle
 

Dave-L

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Jan 17, 2020
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Knowledge has ceased.

Too funny.

No....hilarious.

"I know knowledge has ceased with the other gifts"

Turns and leaves the room with a chuckle
Knowledge was inspired knowledge, now provided by the inspired word of God.
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
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“For all the promises of God in him [Jesus] are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.” 2 Corinthians 1:20 (KJV 1900)

So nothing finds fulfillment apart from accepting him. In the NT Jesus is Israel along with believers only.
So you belong to the believers which believe there is no millenium. And belives not that the 12 tribes which are also mentioned in revealation have a future, as God promised them in the OT? Ok, then we will see.
But to interprete verses out of the context leads to false teachings. F.e. what we find since 1901.
 

Dave-L

Well-known member
Jan 17, 2020
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So you belong to the believers which believe there is no millenium. And belives not that the 12 tribes which are also mentioned in revealation have a future, as God promised them in the OT? Ok, then we will see.
But to interprete verses out of the context leads to false teachings. F.e. what we find since 1901.
Jesus is Israel including the 12 tribes. He is the lion from the tribe of Judah and Israel unified.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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Knowledge was inspired knowledge, now provided by the inspired word of God.
So... if this is the case, then God is forbidden from revealing anything to mankind that is not already revealed in His word. He can reveal nothing of calculus, electricity, chemistry, nuclear science, internal medicine, mechanics, astronomy, or virology, and must watch His people suffer for lack of knowledge until they discover for themselves. He can't speak to people in dreams, visions, or any means other than His word. He can't even direct them to a particular passage of Scripture because that would be "inspired knowledge" outside of Scripture.

Hogwash. God is still in the revelation business. He just isn't adding to Scripture, because Scripture is complete for the purposes He gave it.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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Iow
You have no response to the verses.
Only juvenile personal attacks.
You have demonstrated no interest in receiving the scriptures. You already know all you want to know. Knowledge is open to those who desire to understand.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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It amazes me that you simply don't grasp what I've written. There is nothing in my posts that suggests any modern prophecy is above or equal to Scripture in authority, yet you consistently misrepresent my words and imply that I believe that. No understanding, indeed!
Is it equal to mention and if so why? Whats the point ? Protecting a blank check .

It would seem you are trying to build something on nothing. What's the foundation or hope? God still moves people by the same source of faith as he has for the last 2000. years. Just what is it you are trying to support? That God still moves people according to his perfect book of the law and do not add to it or take way from it ? .

If every-time he moved people to perform his will which is written down. I suppose we would need a bigger world to hold the volumes .. I would ask do you support "sola scriptura" or are there other venues by which we could hear God . Like falling backward make a noise ?