Reject man-made works and election religions, but instead : -

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Chris1975

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2017
2,487
508
113
#61
Romans 5v1,2
5 Therefore, having been justified by faith, [a]we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

There are three aspects to our salvation. By reducing salvation to just one aspect, many will end up arguing for days and days on end (years and years). One will quote aspect number 1, and another will try refute with aspect number 2. These however are not contradictory. The bible is not contradictory.

All three Persons of the Godhead are involved in the three aspects of our common salvation.

Look carefully at the verse above:

1) We cannot be saved unless we come through the door of Jesus Christ. We are JUSTIFIED by his blood through faith in Christ Jesus, which brings PEACE with GOD. This is aspect number 1. There is no part 2 or 3 unless you come through Jesus. There is no way to the Father but by Jesus. There are hundreds of scriptures which establish this basic truth. None of us actually argue against this point. I will say it once more, just for emphasis ---- NONE of us are arguing this point.

2) We have the Spirit of Grace, the Holy Spirit, who also has a part in our salvation, but it is NOT in conflict with part 1 above. Read the scripture above once again. ------ "through whom also we have access by faith into this GRACE in which we stand". We have access to the Holy Spirit through Jesus. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Grace. It is a NOW moment. Where we currently stand. Its living out our lives in the HERE AND NOW. Whereas part 1 above refers to JUSTIFICATION, this part 2 refers to SANCTIFICATION. Its a separating ourselves from the world and worldliness. Continually transforming our minds. Becoming more Christlike. Growing in God. Growing in Love. This is also VERY MUCH a part of our salvation, as we work out our salvation with fear and trembling. To those who OVERCOME He will give the right to eat from the tree of life. There is a daily OVERCOMING. A daily picking up of our cross. There are hundreds of scriptures establishing this basic truth. Herein lies the battle for the Christian, Flesh vs Spirit and Spirit vs Flesh. Our choices remain to either live according to the flesh or the Spirit. These decisions are made in our inner man. In our soul.

3) We now have God the Father, who participates in the final concluding chapter of our Salvation, namely GLORIFICATION. It is at this point, when we come into His glorious presence that we are given new resurrected bodies (Glorified bodies). Bodies which cannot sin for they no longer have the corruption that we have been dragging around since Adam. This final chapter of Glorification to awarded to those who have overcome. How do we overcome? 1 John 5 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—[a]our faith. 5 Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God? There are also hundreds of scriptures pointing to the glorification of the saints.

None of the above is possible without Faith. We should all agree on this fact. But simply bypassing the journey, by the Holy Spirit, and simply dismissing the work of sanctification is very much unlikely to get you to the point of Glorifiction. For if you live by Faith, the life you live in part 2 will bring you through as an overcomer.

Now--- please ----- lets all stop beating each other with verses the are not placed in their proper context positionally, as per the above. There is way too much of this.
 
Mar 14, 2011
72,948
16,170
113
#62
Quoting the apostles, "you are not one of us."
Your the one who can’t answer a question

your the one who needs to look inside and ask yourself why you cant

again

i am not one of you, I refuse to work to earn or maintain my salvation, or preach salvation by works.
 

Melach

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2019
1,864
1,418
113
#63
I can point to many wicked works salvationists who profess Christ and feel safe so long as they "repent"...🙄

Then continue doing the same thing.
i say this too. it doesnt matter what you believe when it comes to sinning. i was works salvationist. i came away from it. and i still didnt get any worse in sin

it doesnt matter. there are works salvationists and grace salvationists and in both groups you got horrible sinners and you got good christian saints.


its called pidgeon holing i learned that word recently and will keep using it lolz. great word. they find some doctrine they dont like, point to evil people in there and say ahaa that is why its all wrong because of that belief.

i do the same here:

i know many evil roman catholics, they believe in sacraments to forgive sins. so roman catholic belief causes people to sin more they can just sin and confess to priest take communion say hail mary and its good.

i belief sin is a heart problem. if you got bad in your heart not changed by God its gonna cause sin doesnt matter what church or not you go to
 
Mar 14, 2011
72,948
16,170
113
#64
Romans 5v1,2
5 Therefore, having been justified by faith, [a]we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

There are three aspects to our salvation. By reducing salvation to just one aspect, many will end up arguing for days and days on end (years and years). One will quote aspect number 1, and another will try refute with aspect number 2. These however are not contradictory. The bible is not contradictory.

All three Persons of the Godhead are involved in the three aspects of our common salvation.

Look carefully at the verse above:

1) We cannot be saved unless we come through the door of Jesus Christ. We are JUSTIFIED by his blood through faith in Christ Jesus, which brings PEACE with GOD. This is aspect number 1. There is no part 2 or 3 unless you come through Jesus. There is no way to the Father but by Jesus. There are hundreds of scriptures which establish this basic truth. None of us actually argue against this point. I will say it once more, just for emphasis ---- NONE of us are arguing this point.

2) We have the Spirit of Grace, the Holy Spirit, who also has a part in our salvation, but it is NOT in conflict with part 1 above. Read the scripture above once again. ------ "through whom also we have access by faith into this GRACE in which we stand". We have access to the Holy Spirit through Jesus. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Grace. It is a NOW moment. Where we currently stand. Its living out our lives in the HERE AND NOW. Whereas part 1 above refers to JUSTIFICATION, this part 2 refers to SANCTIFICATION. Its a separating ourselves from the world and worldliness. Continually transforming our minds. Becoming more Christlike. Growing in God. Growing in Love. This is also VERY MUCH a part of our salvation, as we work out our salvation with fear and trembling. To those who OVERCOME He will give the right to eat from the tree of life. There is a daily OVERCOMING. A daily picking up of our cross. There are hundreds of scriptures establishing this basic truth. Herein lies the battle for the Christian, Flesh vs Spirit and Spirit vs Flesh. Our choices remain to either live according to the flesh or the Spirit. These decisions are made in our inner man. In our soul.

3) We now have God the Father, who participates in the final concluding chapter of our Salvation, namely GLORIFICATION. It is at this point, when we come into His glorious presence that we are given new resurrected bodies (Glorified bodies). Bodies which cannot sin for they no longer have the corruption that we have been dragging around since Adam. This final chapter of Glorification to awarded to those who have overcome. How do we overcome? 1 John 5 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—[a]our faith. 5 Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God? There are also hundreds of scriptures pointing to the glorification of the saints.

None of the above is possible without Faith. We should all agree on this fact. But simply bypassing the journey, by the Holy Spirit, and simply dismissing the work of sanctification is very much unlikely to get you to the point of Glorifiction. For if you live by Faith, the life you live in part 2 will bring you through as an overcomer.

Now--- please ----- lets all stop beating each other with verses the are not placed in their proper context positionally, as per the above. There is way too much of this.
Once justification is secured

the other two are assured

the discussion are those saying that unless one is sanctified, they lose their justification, Ie salvation can be lost. Ie glorification will not happen.

all 3 aspects are works of god

as hebrews says

by one offering he has perfected forever (justification) those who are being sanctified, it is a work of god

works Salvation states justification is by faith but sanctification is by works, and we must sanctify ourselves to remain justified,
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
693
113
#65
Your the one who can’t answer a question

your the one who needs to look inside and ask yourself why you cant

again

i am not one of you, I refuse to work to earn or maintain my salvation, or preach salvation by works.
Please be quiet.
 

Melach

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2019
1,864
1,418
113
#66
Please be quiet.
use the ignore function. thats what God does when you pray until you stop believing israelites followed a false god in the o.t. when they took out canaanites.

im here too hahaha i will never drop it.
 
Mar 14, 2011
72,948
16,170
113
#68
use the ignore function. thats what God does when you pray until you stop believing israelites followed a false god in the o.t. when they took out canaanites.

im here too hahaha i will never drop it.
He can stop being that way and answer a question

it would all be over
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
13,573
6,215
113
#69
Col 3:5-17 ESV
This passage has no relevance to the title of this thread. It is simply about the Christian walk and how one must be a new creature in Christ.

Also the ESV is just like all other modern versions. They all call themselves "Standard Versions" and revise themselves over and over again.

There are at least fifteen alterations in this passage when compared to the King James Bible which change the meaning. There are also a couple of significant omissions.

Verse 5
ESV: what is earthly in you (not the same thing as)
KJV: your members which are upon the earth


Verse 6
ESV: On account of these the wrath of God is coming...

Westcott and Hort 1881: δι' ἃ ἔρχεται ἡ ὀργὴ τοῦ θεοῦ

KJV: For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh [on the children of disobedience] OMITTED
Stephanus Textus Receptus 1550: δι' ἃ ἔρχεται ἡ ὀργὴ τοῦ θεοῦ ἐπὶ τοὺς υἱοὺς τῆς ἀπειθείας

Verse 8 "slander" substituted for "blasphemy" -- βλασφημίαν (blasphēmian)

The modern versions have chosen *slander* over "blasphemy* and even Thayer's (below) applies this meaning to Col 3:8. But is it justified? THAYER'S IS DELIBERATELY PERVERTING THE MEANING by also applying *slander* to Matthew 12:31 and Mark 3:28,29 which is totally false (when they have the correct meaning below that): Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men... Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:

So Thayer's has chosen to deliberately mislead Christians in all these references (shown below): Matthew 12:31; Matthew 15:19; Mark 3:28; Mark 7:22; Colossians 3:8.

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 988: βλασφημία
βλασφημία, βλασφημίας, ἡ, railing, reviling (Vulg.blasphemia);


a. universally, slander, detraction, speech injurious to another's good name: Matthew 12:31; Matthew 15:19; Mark 3:28; Mark 7:22; Ephesians 4:31; Colossians 3:8; 1 Timothy 6:4;Jude 1:9 (κρίσις βλασφημίας, equivalent to κρίσιςβλάσφημος in 2 Peter 2:11, a judgment pronounced in reproachful terms); Revelation 2:9.

b. specifically, impious and reproachful speech injurious to the divine majesty: Matthew 26:65; Mark 2:7 (R G); ; Luke 5:21; John 10:33; Revelation 13:5 (not Lachmann); ὄνομα orὀνόματα βλασφημίας equivalent to βλάσφημα (cf. Winers Grammar, § 34, 3 b.; (Buttmann, § 132, 10)): Revelation 13:1;Revelation 17:3 (R G Tr, see γέμω); τοῦ πνεύματος, genitive of the object, Matthew 12:31; πρός τόν Θεόν, Revelation 13:6. (Euripides, Plato, Demosthenes, others; for נֶאָצָה Ezekiel 35:12.) (BB. DD. under the word ; Campbell, Diss. on the Gospels, diss. ix. part ii.)

SO IF WE ARE TALKING ABOUT MAN-MADE WORKS, THE MODERN VERSIONS ARE MAN-MADE WORKS WHICH SHOULD ALSO BE REJECTED SINCE THEY PERVERT THE TRUTH.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
693
113
#70
If this was true, you believe all children of god are victorious, and could never fail
We have an adversary:
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: (1Pe 5:8 KJV)
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
693
113
#71
This passage has no relevance to the title of this thread. It is simply about the Christian walk and how one must be a new creature in Christ.




Also the ESV is just like all other modern versions. They all call themselves "Standard Versions" and revise themselves over and over again.

There are at least fifteen alterations in this passage when compared to the King James Bible which change the meaning. There are also a couple of significant omissions.

Verse 5
ESV: what is earthly in you (not the same thing as)
KJV: your members which are upon the earth


Verse 6
ESV: On account of these the wrath of God is coming...

Westcott and Hort 1881: δι' ἃ ἔρχεται ἡ ὀργὴ τοῦ θεοῦ

KJV: For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh [on the children of disobedience] OMITTED
Stephanus Textus Receptus 1550: δι' ἃ ἔρχεται ἡ ὀργὴ τοῦ θεοῦ ἐπὶ τοὺς υἱοὺς τῆς ἀπειθείας

Verse 8 "slander" substituted for "blasphemy" -- βλασφημίαν (blasphēmian)

The modern versions have chosen *slander* over "blasphemy* and even Thayer's (below) applies this meaning to Col 3:8. But is it justified? THAYER'S IS DELIBERATELY PERVERTING THE MEANING by also applying *slander* to Matthew 12:31 and Mark 3:28,29 which is totally false (when they have the correct meaning below that): Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men... Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:

So Thayer's has chosen to deliberately mislead Christians in all these references (shown below): Matthew 12:31; Matthew 15:19; Mark 3:28; Mark 7:22; Colossians 3:8.

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 988: βλασφημία
βλασφημία, βλασφημίας, ἡ, railing, reviling (Vulg.blasphemia);


a. universally, slander, detraction, speech injurious to another's good name: Matthew 12:31; Matthew 15:19; Mark 3:28; Mark 7:22; Ephesians 4:31; Colossians 3:8; 1 Timothy 6:4;Jude 1:9 (κρίσις βλασφημίας, equivalent to κρίσιςβλάσφημος in 2 Peter 2:11, a judgment pronounced in reproachful terms); Revelation 2:9.

b. specifically, impious and reproachful speech injurious to the divine majesty: Matthew 26:65; Mark 2:7 (R G); ; Luke 5:21; John 10:33; Revelation 13:5 (not Lachmann); ὄνομα orὀνόματα βλασφημίας equivalent to βλάσφημα (cf. Winers Grammar, § 34, 3 b.; (Buttmann, § 132, 10)): Revelation 13:1;Revelation 17:3 (R G Tr, see γέμω); τοῦ πνεύματος, genitive of the object, Matthew 12:31; πρός τόν Θεόν, Revelation 13:6. (Euripides, Plato, Demosthenes, others; for נֶאָצָה Ezekiel 35:12.) (BB. DD. under the word ; Campbell, Diss. on the Gospels, diss. ix. part ii.)

SO IF WE ARE TALKING ABOUT MAN-MADE WORKS, THE MODERN VERSIONS ARE MAN-MADE WORKS WHICH SHOULD ALSO BE REJECTED SINCE THEY PERVERT THE TRUTH.
The Christian walk is what this thread is about.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,358
113
#72
Lets see

He posts about a works based gospel

Then follow it up with a passage that talks about us stopping sin. Instead of a passage about being saved by grace.

He posts sanctification passages in lew of justification passages.

come on. Put two and two together.
Impossible to add when he cannot even grasp the basics.....but we already know this hey migo
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
693
113
#73
Sometimes our eyes are taken away from the founder of our faith, and we turn to others, so therefore:

Since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God. (Heb 12:1-2 ESV)
 

Lightskin

Well-known member
Aug 16, 2019
3,165
3,661
113
#74
(5) Put to death therefore what is earthly in you: sexual immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. On account of these the wrath of God is coming.

(7) In these you too once walked, when you were living in them. But now you must put them all away: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and obscene talk from your mouth. Do not lie to one another, seeing that you have put off the old self with its practices and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge after the image of its creator.

(11) Here there is not Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave, free; but Christ is all, and in all. Put on then, as God's chosen ones, holy and beloved, compassionate hearts, kindness, humility, meekness, and patience, bearing with one another and, if one has a complaint against another, forgiving each other; as the Lord has forgiven you, so you also must forgive. And above all these put on love, which binds everything together in perfect harmony.

(15) And let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, to which indeed you were called in one body. And be thankful. Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly, teaching and admonishing one another in all wisdom, singing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, with thankfulness in your hearts to God.
(17) And whatever you do, in word or deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.

Col 3:5-17 ESV
John 3:16-17
Romans 10:9-10
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
693
113
#75
Impossible to add when he cannot even grasp the basics.....but we already know this hey migo
We do not need this DC, and it is getting personal as well as being off topic, so I am going to have to put you on ignore DC. Sorry.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,358
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#76
New Testament commandments are not "works of the law". That is where you are mistaken.
works are works are works are works are works are works......

Works of the law
Works of the flesh
GOOD works in the name of JESUS

NONE save, keep saved, top off salvation or finish salvation you know why....

WORKS ARE WORKS ARE WORKS ARE WORKS ARE WORKS.......

NOT by works of RIGHTEOUSNESS which we have DONE <--N.T.
NOT of works lest any man should boast <--N.T.
Justified without the WORKS of the LAW <---N.T.

Many will say...HAVE we NOT done many wonderful WORKS in your NAME <---NOPE, works will never make the cut...EVER!
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,358
113
#78
We do not need this DC, and it is getting personal, so I am going to have to put you on ignore DC. Sorry.
OK and no you are not sorry and like yesterday when I made a direct quote about the imputed righteousness of CHRIST and you accused me of saying I made myself equal with Christ.......

2 Greek words = the word translated HYPOCRITE