Repent and be baptized, every one of you

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Evmur

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Feb 28, 2021
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#81
I do not want to discuss baptism or not, but it saying does not believe shall be damned does not have to include not baptized for if they do not believe it is a guarantee they will not be baptized because they do not believe.

Saying does not believe shall be damned is a guarantee they will not be baptized, and they will not confess Jesus as Lord and Savior, for they do not believe.

If the Bible says the person that does not believe the word of God is not saved does not also have to say, and does not confess Christ, and does not get baptized, and does not believe this or that concerning the Bible, and does not do this or that according to the Bible.

Because it is a guarantee they will not believe, and do those things, for they do not believe the Bible.

If I say I do not like to exercise I do not have to include and lifting weights, and jumping rope, and running, for it is unnecessary for I do not like to exercise.

This is an example for I do like to exercise in case someone says oh that dude does not like to exercise the bum.

Well you know how some people are liking to belittle people and Christian Chat rooms are no exception.

I am being kind of sarcastic only because some people that claim to be a Christian do like to belittle people.

It is unnecessary to say not baptized for it is a guarantee they will not get baptized because they do not believe.

If I say I do not like dairy I do not have to say and milk, and cheese, and yogurt, for that is unnecessary.

But I do like dairy in case someone says oh that dude does not like dairy what is wrong with his head, lol.
And I don't think so. I think God is very precise in His words and leaves that part out of a purpose. Just like when He cut in on Peter's gospel to Cornelius before Peter could get round to water baptism.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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#82
I do not want to discuss baptism or not, but it saying does not believe shall be damned does not have to include not baptized for if they do not believe it is a guarantee they will not be baptized because they do not believe.

Saying does not believe shall be damned is a guarantee they will not be baptized, and they will not confess Jesus as Lord and Savior, for they do not believe..
If someone does not believe in the existence of Christ then of course they would not get water baptized, yet there are still numerous people (especially people who are members of false religions and cults) over the years who have been water baptized and merely believe "mental assent" in the existence of Christ and that His death, burial and resurrection "happened" yet they are still missing the crucial element of belief, namely, trusting in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation (Romans 1:16) so they do not believe unto salvation, yet they get water baptized anyway because they are trusting in water baptism for salvation.

Mark 16:16 - He who believes and is baptized will be saved (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned. The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely essential to salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief and not on a lack of baptism. While this verse does tell us something about believers who have been baptized (they will not be condemned), it does not say anything about believers who have not been baptized. In order for this verse to teach that baptism is absolutely necessary for salvation, a third statement would be necessary, such as, "He who believes and is not baptized will be condemned" or "He who is not baptized will be condemned" but, of course, neither of these statements is found in the verse.

1 Corinthians 12:3 - Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except BY the Holy Spirit. There is divine influence or direct operation of the Holy Spirit in the heart of a person when confessing Jesus as Lord. This confession is not just a simple acknowledgment that Jesus is the Lord (even the demons believe that), but is a deep, personal conviction from the heart that Jesus is that person's Lord and Savior. Yet there are still many pseudo-Christians who may give "lip service" to Jesus as Lord but are not genuine believers. (Matthew 7:21-23)
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
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#83
Repent and be baptized in laymen's terms means to turn back to God and be immerse in His Existence, as He Is, the reality of His Being, I Am that I Am, and that is not water which is named after Him but Merciful and Gracious, Longsuffering, and Abundant in Goodness, that is His reputation which the water is only symbolic of.
 

Lamar

Active member
May 21, 2023
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#85
Repent and be baptized in laymen's terms means to turn back to God and be immerse in His Existence, as He Is, the reality of His Being, I Am that I Am, and that is not water which is named after Him but Merciful and Gracious, Longsuffering, and Abundant in Goodness, that is His reputation which the water is only symbolic of.
This is simply a philosophical word salad not based on scripture but pulled from thin air.

There is nothing "symbolic" about repentance or baptism.

Faith without obedience is a dead faith. (James 2:20-26)
 

Lamar

Active member
May 21, 2023
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#88
If someone does not believe in the existence of Christ then of course they would not get water baptized, yet there are still numerous people (especially people who are members of false religions and cults) over the years who have been water baptized and merely believe "mental assent" in the existence of Christ and that His death, burial and resurrection "happened" yet they are still missing the crucial element of belief, namely, trusting in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation (Romans 1:16) so they do not believe unto salvation, yet they get water baptized anyway because they are trusting in water baptism for salvation.
If someone does not submit themselves to God's authority but clings to their own sensibilities in regards to scripture (especially people who push faith alone regeneration theology and their ilk) will attempt to misappropriate the purpose of water baptism being the moment of remission of sins and replace it with some sincere moment of belief in their past (sinner's prayer).

It is this crucial yet missing element of obedience that exposes their flawed trust in this failed theology. They do not see the need to be baptized into the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ since they "received" their remission of sins before baptism. To them water baptism is but a meaningless option from a bygone day. Take it or leave it.

Faith without obedience is a dead faith. James 2;20-26
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
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#89
This is simply a philosophical word salad not based on scripture but pulled from thin air.

There is nothing "symbolic" about repentance or baptism.

Faith without obedience is a dead faith. (James 2:20-26)
You're always making word soup by your philosophy, adding water to the necessary baptism waters it down into John's baptism. Jesus suffered John to baptize him to 'fulfill all righteousness' and you unwittingly insist that He fell short of that, but obedience is to wholly believe it.
 

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
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#90
In other words, keep digging until your ears stop itching.
dig this

If you attribute to baptism or any other work whatsoever the ability to impart salvation or any other grace you are making an idol of it. It is idolatry. It was ordained of God that Moses should lift up a serpent upon his rod that anyone who would simply look at the serpent on the rod would be healed.

But to attribute to the rod the healing power would be idolatry.

That's how fine a line it is. To attribute to baptism the power to save, to wash away sins is idolatry. If you cross over that oh so thin line you reveal idolatry is in your heart. Your heart's desire to attribute a grace or blessing to a thing or act instead of something to be received directly from the hand of God with thanksgiving.

It is the beginning of sacramental religion. Soon that thing [the ordinance of baptism eg] becomes so holy that only certain people can administer it, they have to dress up in special clothes and holy robes, certain forms and ceremonies must be observed, rituals performed.
This is the essence of Catholicism, it's how it started.
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
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#91
Water Baptism is necessary for those who are saved, those who believe. Water does not save. It's the blood that saves.
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
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#92
It is you who is in serious error. Simply put, you are attempting to make null and void the words of Peter on the purpose of water baptism. Peter is clearly tying this act of obedience to the moment of remission of sins. You are misappropriating that moment to fit your false theology.

You cannot see this because of your faith alone regeneration theology blinders. It is this theology that leads people into a faith without obedience. A dead faith spoken of in James 2. A faith that mocks the very words of Jesus.

Again, a faith without obedience is a dead faith.
Did the Bible say "to the moment". Please clarify. Thanks
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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#94
If someone does not submit themselves to God's authority but clings to their own sensibilities in regards to scripture (especially people who push faith alone regeneration theology and their ilk) will attempt to misappropriate the purpose of water baptism being the moment of remission of sins and replace it with some sincere moment of belief in their past (sinner's prayer).
Salvation/justification is through faith in Christ alone. (Romans 4:5-6; 5:1; Ephesians 2:8,9) Romans 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. *What happened to baptism?

Acts 26:18 - to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me. *What happened to baptism? Baptismal regeneration contradicts salvation through faith and is a heretical doctrine.

Now for a person who comes to the realization that he is lost and in need of Jesus Christ to save him, he may only obtain salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ alone. (Ephesians 2:8,9) A person needs to understand that Jesus Christ paid the penalty for his sins by His sacrifice on the cross of Calvary, was buried, and rose again the third day, and he needs to make a genuine and willful decision to totally trust in Jesus as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation in order to be saved. In doing this he is calling on the name of the Lord to save him. (Romans 10:13)

Now if subsequent to such a decision, the person would like to pray what some call a "sinner’s prayer," (calling on the name of the Lord to save him in prayer) he may do so, as long as he understands that it was his decision to change their mind and trust in Jesus Christ alone for salvation that apprehends his salvation and not simply reciting a prayer in of itself, as if it's a magical formula to recite a set of words, but prayer may be used to call upon the name of the Lord to be saved.

It is this crucial yet missing element of obedience that exposes their flawed trust in this failed theology.
Faith in baptism for salvation rather than faith in Christ exposes your flawed trust in your failed theology which keeps you from believing the gospel. Faith that saves trusts in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. Obedience which "follows" is works and we are not saved by works.

They do not see the need to be baptized into the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ since they "received" their remission of sins before baptism.
Genuine believers understand that those who believe in Him receive remission of sins BEFORE water baptism. (Acts 10:43-47) Trusting in water and works for salvation is not believing in Him but is believing in 'water and works.'

To them water baptism is but a meaningless option from a bygone day. Take it or leave it.
Straw man argument. I can't think of one Christian I know who has refused to be water baptized after they were saved through faith in Christ and saw baptism as a meaningless option. I personally could not wait to get water baptized after I placed my faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation and was saved several years ago and I even gave about a 5-minute testimony just prior to receiving water baptism on how I finally came to believe the gospel after being misled for multiple years by the Roman Catholic church (which I was born and raised in) on baptism and the gospel in general.

Faith without obedience is a dead faith. James 2;20-26
Faith that produces no obedience at all demonstrates that it's a dead faith. Believers do not produce obedience from a dead faith but from a living faith. (Ephesians 2:5-10) In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims (key word) he has faith but has no works (to evidence his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So, when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. So, James does not teach that we are saved "by" works in contradiction with Paul (Romans 4:2-6). His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!

In regard to "faith without works is dead" in James 2:20, James does not mean that faith is dead until it produces works and then it becomes a living faith, and the works are the source of life in faith. That would be like saying that a tree is dead until it produces fruit and then it becomes a living tree, and the fruit is the source of life in the tree. Something that is dead cannot produce anything. It takes a living faith to produce works just as it takes a living tree to produce fruit. You put the cart before the horse because you teach salvation by works (with a heavy emphasis on water baptism).

In James 2:24, James is not using the word "justified" here to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3)

In regard to James 2:26, the comparison of the human spirit and faith here converge around their modes of operation. The spirit (Greek pneuma) may also be translated "breath." As a breathless body exhibits no indication of life, so fruitless faith exhibits no indication of life. The source of the life in faith is not works; rather, life in faith is the source of works.

Trusting in Jesus Christ alone for salvation remains the critical missing element in your faith. You seem to believe that all faith is the same 'except for the lack of good works' and you cannot seem to grasp a deeper faith which trusts in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. This also explains why you have so much faith in 'water and works.' Whatever you are trusting in for salvation that's what you have placed your faith in. You need to repent (change your mind) and trust in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. Only Jesus Christ can save you. H20 cannot save you.
 

JBTN

Active member
Feb 11, 2020
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#96
If someone does not submit themselves to God's authority but clings to their own sensibilities in regards to scripture (especially people who push faith alone regeneration theology and their ilk) will attempt to misappropriate the purpose of water baptism being the moment of remission of sins and replace it with some sincere moment of belief in their past (sinner's prayer).

It is this crucial yet missing element of obedience that exposes their flawed trust in this failed theology. They do not see the need to be baptized into the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ since they "received" their remission of sins before baptism. To them water baptism is but a meaningless option from a bygone day. Take it or leave it.

Faith without obedience is a dead faith. James 2;20-26
“And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭3‬:‭22‬-‭24‬ ‭KJV‬‬
https://bible.com/bible/1/1jn.3.23-24.KJV

Belief/Faith is obedience.

“For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.”
‭‭James‬ ‭2‬:‭26‬ ‭KJV‬‬
https://bible.com/bible/1/jas.2.26.KJV

Thinking about this analogy, what can we say about a dead faith? It was once alive. It is real. it may be dead, but it doesn’t disappear or cease to exist. it is unproductive. It can be a burden.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
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#97
You're always making word soup by your philosophy, adding water to the necessary baptism waters it down into John's baptism. Jesus suffered John to baptize him to 'fulfill all righteousness' and you unwittingly insist that He fell short of that, but obedience is to wholly believe it.
God sent John the Baptist to introduce water baptism of repentance for the remission of sin. (Luke 3:7, Mark 1:1-5, Luke 7:30, etc.)
That baptism in water was later modified to include the name of Jesus Christ in association with His sacrifice and is applicable to all those living in the NT. (Rom. 6:3-6)


Jesus prophesied this would occur:
"Then opened he (JESUS) their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
AND that repentance and remission of sins SHOULD BE PREACHED IN HIS NAME among all nations, BEGINNING AT JERUSALEM." Luke 24:47

As prophesied, Peter presented the initial message that included the need everyone to repent AND be baptized in the name of Jesus for remission of sins. And where did this occur? In Jerusalem on the Day of Pentecost. Acts 2:38

Also as prophesied, the same message spread throughout the nations:
"But when they (SAMARITANS) believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women." Acts 8:12

"Can any man forbid water, that these (GENTILES) should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days." Acts 10:47-48



Also relevant: Ananias informed Saul: (who later became Paul)
"For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard." Acts 22:15

Afterward Ananias went on to say:
"And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord." Acts 22:16


Paul carried the message of the need to be water baptized in the name of Jesus to the Ephesians:
"Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
When they heard this (EPHESIANS), they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them..." Acts 19:4-6


As the above scriptures attest, obedience to God's command to repent and be baptized in water in the name of Jesus is for remission of sin, and is required of everyone along with the need to experience the indwelling of the Holy Ghost. (Rom. 8:9)
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,247
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#98
dig this

If you attribute to baptism or any other work whatsoever the ability to impart salvation or any other grace you are making an idol of it. It is idolatry. It was ordained of God that Moses should lift up a serpent upon his rod that anyone who would simply look at the serpent on the rod would be healed.

But to attribute to the rod the healing power would be idolatry.

That's how fine a line it is. To attribute to baptism the power to save, to wash away sins is idolatry. If you cross over that oh so thin line you reveal idolatry is in your heart. Your heart's desire to attribute a grace or blessing to a thing or act instead of something to be received directly from the hand of God with thanksgiving.

It is the beginning of sacramental religion. Soon that thing [the ordinance of baptism eg] becomes so holy that only certain people can administer it, they have to dress up in special clothes and holy robes, certain forms and ceremonies must be observed, rituals performed.
This is the essence of Catholicism, it's how it started.
Unfortunately the Roman Catholic Church distorted concepts related to water baptism that cause people to reject what the word reveals about it. It was forerunners of the RCC that instituted the need to baptize by repeating Jesus' command from Matt. 28:19 rather then obeying it. The word of God reveals the truth concerning Jesus' command as seen in the apostles actions. (Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-6, 22:16)

It was ordained of God that those living in the NT era have their sins remitted upon obedience to the command, first introduced by John the Baptist, (whom God sent) and later modified to include the name of Jesus in association with His sacrifice. As Paul revealed in verses 5 and 6 of Romans chapter 6 below, those who are obedient to baptism have their sins destroyed:

"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

*FOR IF (AGAIN NOTE THE WORD "IF") we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
KNOWING THIS, that *our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. Rom. 6:3-6

The word IF alone in Paul's statement indicates the necessity of obedience to the command in order to have one's sin destroyed/remitted as made possible by the sacrifice of Jesus.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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God sent John the Baptist to introduce water baptism of repentance for the remission of sin.
There came a man who was sent from God. His name was John. He came as a witness to testify about the Light, so that
through him everyone might believe. He himself was not the Light, but he came to testify about the Light.
John 1:6-8


John testified, “I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove and resting on Him. I myself did not know Him,
but the One who sent me to baptize with water told me, ‘The man on whom you see the Spirit descend and rest is
He who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’ I have seen and testified that this is the Son of God.”
John 1:32-34