Repent and be baptized, every one of you

[mailmandan]

repentance and baptism is conjunctive here from the kai (and)
meaning both conditions are necessary to fulfill the statement


even if they were, necessarily, parenthesized by commas,
as in repent, and every one of you be baptized, for the remission of sins,
they would still be conjoined logically

Similarly, Acts 3:19 conjoins repentance with

19Repent, then, and turn back, so that your sins may be wiped away,​

which could imply baptism, unless he is using it superfluously, therefore it is unnecessary to pick repentance alone (slightly better than faith alone as refuted by James) over repentance and baptism, which is what Acts 2:38 inescapably states

It could also simply be that by "repent" he included certain actions that go along with that such as baptism.



Technically Acts 2:38 doesn't necessarily imply receiving the Holy Spirit after baptism,
His words could be interpreted as at some later point from then, because they didn't have the Holy Spirit yet,
they'd receive the Holy Spirit in response to them repenting and being baptized,
whether proactively (from God's foreknowledge) like with Cornelius perhaps, or retroactively


there is no grammatical reason showing that baptism is parenthetical in Acts 2:38, even though baptisms are not in Acts 10:43

This, however,

Romans 10
9that if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
​

is also not in Acts 10:43, as well as this

John 6
53So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I tell you, unless you eat the flesh and drink the blood of the Son of Man, you have no life in you.​

Because the soteriological process is generalized sometimes, and needs to be unpacked.
Since Peter is not contradicting himself, it is much easier for Acts 10:43 to be implying baptism rather than Acts 2:38 somehow excluding baptism from the remission of sins.



Let's also, then, compare your (presumed) interpretation of Acts 10:45 with Acts 19 and Acts 8

Acts 19:5On hearing this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. 6And when Paul laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied. 7There were about twelve men in all

Not that I'm saying laying hands is always necessary, but if faith alone were necessary, did they all, twelve times in a row, happen to believe at the exact moment Paul laid his hands on them, yet having nothing to do with Paul laying his hands on them but only their faith?

Same here

Acts 8:
14When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them. 15On their arrival, they prayed for them to receive the Holy Spirit. 16For the Holy Spirit had not yet fallen upon any of them; they had simply been baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. 17Then Peter and John laid their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.

18When Simon saw that the Spirit was given through the laying on of the apostles’ hands, he offered them money

In regard to Acts 2:38, see post #297 from the link below:

https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...ence-of-salvation.212154/page-15#post-5133437

 

[mailmandan]

Also relevant are the exact words spoken by Peter in Acts 10:43 that relate specifically to his command that the group submit to being water baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. (Acts 10:47-48)

Acts 10:43 "To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins."

Peter's statement reflects back to what was revealed on the first day the gospel message was presented: "Repent, and be baptized every one of you IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST FOR REMISSION OF SIN..." Acts 2:38

What's relevant is these Gentiles in Acts 10 believed, received the gift of the Holy Spirit, spoke in tongues (which is a spiritual gift that is ONLY for the body of Christ -1 Corinthians 12) and were saved BEFORE water baptism. (Acts 10:43-47)

Oneness Pentecostals place a huge emphasis on baptizing "in Jesus name" only as if its a salvation formula and reject the words of Jesus in Matthew 28:19.

https://carm.org/oneness-pentecostal/must-baptism-be-in-jesus-name-baptize/

 

[Nehemiah6]

Oneness Pentecostals place a huge emphasis on baptizing "in Jesus name" only as if its a salvation formula and reject the words of Jesus in Matthew 28:19.

They simply ignore the fact that since the time of the apostles, all Christians have baptized in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. The Didache from the 2nd century specifically uses this "formula". Had those early Christians been taught differently they would not have quoted Matthew 28:19. So in fact "in Jesus name" is the equivalent of "the Name".

 

[Evmur]

I stand firm because the word expresses that water baptism is necessary; it is God ordained that obedience to the command brings about remission of sin made possible by Jesus' sacrifice.

It is an error to reject what the word clearly says because so few people accept it. Jesus instructed people to enter in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and FEW THERE BE THAT FIND IT." Matt. 7:13-14

Consider as well that many think belief alone assures one's salvation. Yet, Jesus told those who no doubt believed in Him that He never knew them. (Matt. 7:23) Immediately after making that statement Jesus referenced the need for people to lay a proper foundation. Why do you think Jesus went right into explaining that? Could it be the people had not been buried with Jesus into His death wherein their sins were destroyed? (Rom. 6:3-6)

Note the writer of Hebrews expresses the foundation needs only be laid once, and what it consists of:
"Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment." Heb 6:1-2

You are in serious error, not because you advocate water baptism, I advocate water baptism but because you assign to it salvation properties. I HAVE to question your own salvation.

Baptismal regeneration is not a new doctrine. It is what opened the door to professional clergy, priests etc at the turn of the 1st century and gave rise to the Roman Catholic Church.

 

[Evmur]

In regard to Mark 16:16, see post #22. You fail miserably at properly harmonizing scripture with scripture before reaching your conclusion on doctrine.

Acts 8:35 - Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning at this Scripture, preached Jesus to him. 36 Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, “See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?” 37 Then Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.” And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.” Water baptism "follows" conversion. (Acts 10:43-47)

Compare with John 20:31 - but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name. *What happened to baptism? Also, what happened to baptism in John 3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29.40.47; 11:25,26? Did Jesus forget to mention it? *Hermeneutics.

Your arguments on water baptism have already been refuted numerous times but you just don't have eyes to see or ears to hear. Your biased church indoctrination runs deep.

Amen, what Acts 8. also shows is that salvation must come BEFORE baptism. An unsaved person cannot be baptised.

 

[Wansvic]

What's relevant is these Gentiles in Acts 10 believed, received the gift of the Holy Spirit, spoke in tongues (which is a spiritual gift that is ONLY for the body of Christ -1 Corinthians 12) and were saved BEFORE water baptism. (Acts 10:43-47)

Oneness Pentecostals place a huge emphasis on baptizing "in Jesus name" only as if its a salvation formula and reject the words of Jesus in Matthew 28:19.

https://carm.org/oneness-pentecostal/must-baptism-be-in-jesus-name-baptize/

You continually equate being water baptized in Jesus' name as denominational. You may want to re-evaluate your stance. Every detailed record of baptism in water in the NT reveals the apostles did so in the name of Jesus Christ. That's bible.

There is not one record in the entire bible where the phrase Father, Son and Holy Ghost was used while administering water baptism. Why? Because the apostles knew they were to OBEY Jesus' command not repeat it. Jesus said baptize in a NAME, not titles. And the apostles understood that name was Jesus Christ as scripture clearly reveals. (Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-6, 22:16)

 

[Wansvic]

They simply ignore the fact that since the time of the apostles, all Christians have baptized in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. The Didache from the 2nd century specifically uses this "formula". Had those early Christians been taught differently they would not have quoted Matthew 28:19. So in fact "in Jesus name" is the equivalent of "the Name".

There is not one record of the apostles administering water baptism in any other way than in the name of Jesus.

Consider was well that the Bible is inspired whereas the Didache is not. Your mention of the Didache in the past prompted my study of its content. The following excerpts reveal its contents contradict what is revealed in the Word of God:

Didache Text-Biblical Discrepancies
Not scriptural - Concerning baptism, baptize in this way. Having instructed him in all of these teachings, baptize the catechumen in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in running water. But if you do not have running water, then baptize in other water. And if you cannot in cold water, use warm. But if you have neither, then pour water on the head three times, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. And before the baptism, let both the baptizer and the catechumen fast, and also any others who are able. And be sure that the catechumen fasts a day or two before.


Not scriptural - FASTING let not your fasts fall on the same days as the hypocrites,w for they fast on Mondays and Thursdays. Keep your fast on Wednesdays and Fridays.


Not scriptural - Pray the Lord’s Prayer 3 x a day. - CONCERNING PRAYER do Not pray as the hypocrites either,but pray as the Lord commanded in His Gospel: Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name; thy kingdom come; thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven; give us this day our daily bread; and forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us; and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one; for thine is the power and the glory unto ages of ages. Pray this way three times each day.


Concerning apostles and prophets, according to the Gospel’s teaching. Receive every apostle as the Lord.r He should not stay for more than a single day, or two days if necessary. But if he remains for three days, he is a false prophet. When he leaves, let the apostle receive nothing except bread, until he finds a place to stay. But if he asks for money, he is a false prophet.r Do not test or judge any prophet who speaks in the Spirit. Every other sin will be forgiven, but this sin will not be forgiven.s And not everyone who speaks in the Spirit is a prophet, but only he who follows the ways of the Lord. From his behavior, then, you will know a false prophet from a true prophet. Any prophet who orders a meal in Spirit will not eat from it, but if he does eat of it, he is a false prophet. Any prophet who teaches the truth, but does not do the things he teaches, is a false prophet. Every true prophet, if he performs a worldly mystery of the Church, but does not teach others to do likewise, he must not be judged by you. He has his judgment in the presence of God, as with the prophets of old. If anyone says in the Spirit, “Give me money,” do not listen to him.u But if he tells you to give to others who are in need, let no one judge him.

N ow concerning the eucharistic thanksgiving, give thanks in this way. First, as concerning the cup: We give you thanks, our Father, for the holy vine of your son David,which you made known to us through your Son Jesus.Yours is the glory unto ages of ages. Then as regards the broken bread: We give you thanks, our Father, for the life and knowledgec which you made known to us through your Son Jesus. Yours is the glory unto ages of ages. ????As this broken bread was scattered upon the mountains and being gathered together became one, ???? u Acts 15:29. v Mat. 28:19. w Mat. 6:16. x Mat. 6:5f. y Mat. 6:9f. z 1 Cor. 11:23-25. a John 15:1. b Acts 3:13, 26. c John 3:15, 5:26, 6:68f. DIDACHE so may your Church be gathered together from the ends of the earth into your kingdom. For yours is the glory and the power through Jesus Christ unto ages of ages. Do not let anyone eat or drink of this Eucharist who has not been baptized into the name of the Lord, for concerning this the Lord has said, “Do not give the holy things to the dogs.”


Confess your sins in church- gaTher together each Sunday,a break bread and give thanks,???? first confessing your sins, ???? that your sacrifice may be pure.

 

[mailmandan]

You continually equate being water baptized in Jesus' name as denominational. You may want to re-evaluate your stance. Every detailed record of baptism in water in the NT reveals the apostles did so in the name of Jesus Christ. That's bible.

There is not one record in the entire bible where the phrase Father, Son and Holy Ghost was used while administering water baptism. Why? Because the apostles knew they were to OBEY Jesus' command not repeat it. Jesus said baptize in a NAME, not titles. And the apostles understood that name was Jesus Christ as scripture clearly reveals. (Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-6, 22:16)

You remain in error by demanding that baptism be done using a specific salvation formula, "in Jesus name" ONLY or else! Anyone baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit will not be saved according to your rigid formula for salvation.

As the article that I shared with you explained, the phrase, “in the name of the Lord,” is not a reference to a rigid baptismal salvation formula but is a reference to authority. You make the same error as Oneness Pentecostals.

The proper way to baptize in Jesus’ name, by the authority of Jesus is to baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.” You reject the words of Jesus in Matthew 28:19 just as you reject the gospel which is the power of God unto salvation for everyone who BELIEVES.. (Roman's 1:16)

 

[Wansvic]

You are in serious error, not because you advocate water baptism, I advocate water baptism but because you assign to it salvation properties. I HAVE to question your own salvation.

Baptismal regeneration is not a new doctrine. It is what opened the door to professional clergy, priests etc at the turn of the 1st century and gave rise to the Roman Catholic Church.

You are free to question whatever you like. But I suggest you examine the Word of God to see if what I've said lines up with it. I am confident that believing and obeying the Word of God is what brings about salvation. God's word indicates that obedience to water baptism remits sin. (Luke 3:3, Mark 1:1-5, Acts 2:38, 22:16, etc.) In addition to being water baptized in the name of Jesus is the need to be indwelt by the Holy Ghost. (experienced separate from water baptism) Both are essential elements of the NT rebirth experience. This truth as stated by Jesus is reflected in each of the detailed conversion scriptures indicating they apply to all groups of humanity. (John 3:3-5, Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 9:17-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-6, 22:16)

 

[Wansvic]

Amen, what Acts 8. also shows is that salvation must come BEFORE baptism. An unsaved person cannot be baptised.

Note the group heard the word and obeyed the command to be baptized in water in the name of the Lord Jesus. The group was not saved prior to baptism nor at the point of obedience to it. They were essential elements, however it was not until days later that they actually received the Holy Ghost. And receiving the Holy Ghost is essential for salvation. (Rom. 8:9)

 

[Wansvic]

You remain in error by demanding that baptism be done using a specific salvation formula, "in Jesus name" ONLY or else! Anyone baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit will not be saved according to your rigid formula for salvation.

As the article that I shared with you explained, the phrase, “in the name of the Lord,” is not a reference to a rigid baptismal salvation formula but is a reference to authority. You make the same error as Oneness Pentecostals.

The proper way to baptize in Jesus’ name, by the authority of Jesus is to baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.” You reject the words of Jesus in Matthew 28:19 just as you reject the gospel which is the power of God unto salvation for everyone who BELIEVES.. (Roman's 1:16)

One last time...
I do not reject Jesus words in Matthew 28:19. I understand them as revealed from within the Word. Jesus gave the apostles a command and they obeyed Jesus' command by consistently administering water baptism in His NAME. Scripture reveals this, yet you refuse to accept it.


Paul also makes a clear point about the use of the name of Jesus as well:
"Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. 1 Cor. 1:12-15

And did not Paul say, "Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Therefore we are buried with him (JESUS) by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
For if we have been planted together in the likeness of HIS (JESUS) death, we shall be also in the likeness of his (JESUS) resurrection:
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin." Rom. 6:3-6

 

[JaumeJ]

"You know"?

"You are certain"?

Fair question, where does this knowledge come from?

You should well know the replies to these questions , by that same spirit.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Why are you so stubborn about this? are you saying that folks who have not been baptised are not saved? they number millions, the Salvation Army alone is a denomination that discourages baptism. I don't think they should but William Booth was afraid [rightly] that people would trust rather to baptism for salvation than trusting Christ.

Sacraments is doorway through which the devil gets into the church. Simon Magus would have gotten among the Christians but he came up against Simon Peter and the Holy Ghost.

Anyone can say I am baptised therefore I am a Christian. Baptism is something we can do therefore can be feigned. The new birth can't be feigned, at least not among mature Christians.

It really doesn’t matter what we argue and say Jesus is the one who taught about baptism and salvation, his apostles are the ones who insisted on baptism in water in his name for remission of sins because Jesus commanded them to do it

Paul spends about three chapters worth of writings in his epistles dedicated to what it means when you get baptized for remission of sins lol I mean no o e in the Bible ever said “ baptism is t part of this , baptism is irrelevant “

baptism is very well established is the thing it’s important because the scripture makes it so

a one that being said , the Bible also never says if someone believes the gospel and isn’t baptized yet they are damned either.

The question is why would any living human who hears what baptism is for , and whose name it is accomplished In , and then have any sort of problem or issue with getting baptized …..

ots one of those arguments that should t even really exist the question “ do I really need to get baptized ?” That’s not something God is putting in our mind he puts this there

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭

all we have to do is believe that and every believer would get baptized poste haste simply because they heard and believed what thier lord said

whoever believes and is baptized shall be saved

abut those who don’t believe the gospel will be damned

there’s absolutely nothing to create any doubt about baptism or salvetion Jesus says it and it’s true but then there’s always other ideas “ did god really say believe and get baptized ? Surely you don’t need to get baptized like he spoke forth , your saved by grace not works baptism is for Jews not the church “

It’s what he always does god speaks truth then the other guy begins to question if it’s really true since Eden

“And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

thats true

“And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: for God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3:4-6‬ ‭

That’s not true beginning with a lie , and leads them astray into sin and death and exile from Eden. Baptism is no different jesus spoke it and sent it to all creatures on earth it’s just a matter of who will hear it and believe and who will reject it and explain the other ways

 

[Pilgrimshope]

One last time...
I do not reject Jesus words in Matthew 28:19. I understand them as revealed from within the Word. Jesus gave the apostles a command and they obeyed Jesus' command by consistently administering water baptism in His NAME. Scripture reveals this, yet you refuse to accept it.


Paul also makes a clear point about the use of the name of Jesus as well:
"Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. 1 Cor. 1:12-15

And did not Paul say, "Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Therefore we are buried with him (JESUS) by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
For if we have been planted together in the likeness of HIS (JESUS) death, we shall be also in the likeness of his (JESUS) resurrection:
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin." Rom. 6:3-6

Yeah brother the issue is when people grab the hypergrace lie where you don’t have to do anything Jesus said you need to do your …..already saved . By the invisible word grace that means nothing really your just saved period repent ? Nope that’s a work , get baptized ? Nope it’s a work …

they have about twenty lines from Paul’s letters that they repeat no matter how clear your exemples are you can have any reference to water baptism and they’ll explain how grace means your saved not how Jesus said but how “ grace “ says …. It doesn’t even hit anyone how much Paul explains what baptism means lol and how important he teaches that itnis in his epistles

when you say hey look what Paul says about baptism … then lol they say “ that’s not baptism in water it’s a different baptism …….it just doesn’t matter what argument you make with hypergrace doctrine .

a when we start saying “ there’s nothing I’ll ever have to change or do “ then anything Jesus teaches us to change and do lol becomes irrelevant it’s all about removing the real gospel in order to offer a counterfeit that sounds good but has not real words of God offering it just misquoted verses of Paul out of context and strewn together to make a Joseph prince devotional about not haveibg to obey God anymore because of “ grace “ and “ faith “ lol

james book ? Nope for Jews only 1 John ? Nope Jews only , the four gospels ? Nope Jews only divide the word lol rightly …. When they finish their rewlly is. Othjng left to do all those verses became irrelevant when they learned “ you’re saved you never have to hear what god said about it listen instead to me you’re saved by grace forget the words of Jesus offering salvstion ……lol there’s ano th r way over there !!!

sorry brother but I’ve driven through this loop many times And am convinced there’s nothing you can say to ever convince a hypergrace believer they need to do anything it doesn’t matter if you show them twenty scriptures they already have a hewrt full of Joseph prince books and don’t have any room for his words

 

[mailmandan]

One last time...
I do not reject Jesus words in Matthew 28:19.

Yes you do. Jesus specifically said, "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, yet you say no, and instead we must be baptized using the specific formula, "in Jesus' name" only or else you won't be saved. That is your gospel. Must be water baptized and it must be "in Jesus' name" only or else one will not be saved. You teach a "different" gospel. According to Jesus, what is the dividing line between saved and condemned? John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

I understand them as revealed from within the Word. Jesus gave the apostles a command and they obeyed Jesus' command by consistently administering water baptism in His NAME. Scripture reveals this, yet you refuse to accept it.

In His name is by His authority. Baptizing in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit” is baptizing in Jesus' name/by the authority of Jesus. You refuse to accept that. Jesus clearly meant what He said in Matthew 28:19 - "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit." So once again, the phrase, "in the name of Jesus," is not a reference to a rigid baptismal salvation formula but a reference to authority. It's similar to hearing someone say, "stop in the name of the Law!" We understand that the "name of the Law" means by the authority of the Law. It's the same with baptism "in Jesus' name."

To baptize in Jesus' name is to baptize in the authority of Jesus. Reciting the specific words, "in Jesus' name" during baptism is not a magical formula for salvation and believers who were baptized in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit are not still lost in their sins because the specific words, "in Jesus' name" were not recited during their baptism as Oneness Pentecostals and you erroneously teach.

Paul also makes a clear point about the use of the name of Jesus as well:
"Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. 1 Cor. 1:12-15

Christ is certainly not divided and if things got worse in Corinth there might well have been the church of Paul, the church of Apollos, the church of Cephas, as opposed to just the singular “Church of God.” (1 Corinthians 1:2) The church of Corinth was becoming split up into quarrelling factions. The people were more focused on the differences between which apostles they identified with, than the unity they should have had as fellow members of the body of Christ.

The enemy wants people to trust in anything else EXCEPT IN CHRIST ALONE for salvation. If the enemy can keep you trusting in baptism formulas, baptism itself, speaking in tongues, works in general etc.. INSTEAD OF TRUSTING IN CHRIST ALONE FOR SALVATION then his mission is accomplished. (2 Corinthians 4:3,4) So believing/trusting in water baptism formulas, water baptism itself, speaking in tongues or works in general for salvation is not the cause of receiving salvation. That's not believing IN HIS NAME, but is believing in water baptism formulas, water baptism itself, speaking in tongues and works in general. John 1:12 - But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name.

Those who believe in Him/in His name are trusting exclusively in Jesus Christ for salvation and not in works for salvation. (Ephesians 2:8,9) It's no accident that numerous false religions and cults teach salvation by works (with a heavy emphasis on water baptism) including Roman Catholicism and Mormonism.

And did not Paul say, "Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Therefore we are buried with him (JESUS) by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
For if we have been planted together in the likeness of HIS (JESUS) death, we shall be also in the likeness of his (JESUS) resurrection:
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin." Rom. 6:3-6

Spirit baptism is the reality and water baptism is the picture of the reality. Greek scholar AT Robertson explained it well when he said - "It is a tragedy that Paul's majestic picture here has been so blurred by controversy that some refuse to see it. It should be said also that a symbol is not the reality, but the picture of the reality." It is our identification with Him that allows us to say we have been crucified with Christ so that we can say we are dead to sin. We are not dead to sin by our baptism. Rather, we are dead to sin, by faith, in what Jesus did in His sacrificial death on the cross and bodily resurrection.

Baptism and Romans 6:3-5 It is not the water that saves | carm.org

 

[mailmandan]

Jesus instructed people to enter in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and FEW THERE BE THAT FIND IT." Matt. 7:13-14

The strait gate is salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ apart from works. (Romans 3:24-28; 4:5-6; 5:1,2; Ephesians 2:8,9 etc..)

Consider as well that many think belief alone assures one's salvation.

What did Jesus say in John 3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:40,47; 11:25,26? Belief alone or belief plus something else? Belief "apart from additions or modifications." What about Acts 10:43? What about Acts 13:39? What about Acts 16:31? What about Romans 1:16? Belief alone or belief plus something else?

Yet, Jesus told those who no doubt believed in Him that He never knew them. (Matt. 7:23)

Those who promote salvation by works typically get this wrong. The demons believe in Jesus. Does that mean they are saved? These many people in Matthew 7:22 had the wrong foundation. They were trusting in works for salvation and not in Christ alone. Sound familiar? Jesus never knew them which means they were never saved, even though they believed "mental assent" in the existence of Jesus and in certain historical facts about Jesus, these many people did not believe in/on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and were not saved. They were not trusting in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. The demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God" (James 2:19) yet they do not believe in/on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved either. They are not trusting in Jesus Christ alone for salvation either.

Matthew 7:21 - Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

Are you seeing the light yet? (2 Corinthians 4:4)

 

[Evmur]

It really doesn’t matter what we argue and say Jesus is the one who taught about baptism and salvation, his apostles are the ones who insisted on baptism in water in his name for remission of sins because Jesus commanded them to do it

Paul spends about three chapters worth of writings in his epistles dedicated to what it means when you get baptized for remission of sins lol I mean no o e in the Bible ever said “ baptism is t part of this , baptism is irrelevant “

baptism is very well established is the thing it’s important because the scripture makes it so

a one that being said , the Bible also never says if someone believes the gospel and isn’t baptized yet they are damned either.

The question is why would any living human who hears what baptism is for , and whose name it is accomplished In , and then have any sort of problem or issue with getting baptized …..

ots one of those arguments that should t even really exist the question “ do I really need to get baptized ?” That’s not something God is putting in our mind he puts this there

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭

all we have to do is believe that and every believer would get baptized poste haste simply because they heard and believed what thier lord said

whoever believes and is baptized shall be saved

abut those who don’t believe the gospel will be damned

there’s absolutely nothing to create any doubt about baptism or salvetion Jesus says it and it’s true but then there’s always other ideas “ did god really say believe and get baptized ? Surely you don’t need to get baptized like he spoke forth , your saved by grace not works baptism is for Jews not the church “

It’s what he always does god speaks truth then the other guy begins to question if it’s really true since Eden

“And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

thats true

“And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: for God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3:4-6‬ ‭

That’s not true beginning with a lie , and leads them astray into sin and death and exile from Eden. Baptism is no different jesus spoke it and sent it to all creatures on earth it’s just a matter of who will hear it and believe and who will reject it and explain the other ways

Up to this point I entirely agree with you. You ask why in the world would anybody not wish to be water baptised? When it was said to me "Jesus Himself was baptised ... don't you want to follow the Lord?" I asked where's the water?

Paul speaks about what water baptism signifies, I cannot think that Paul thought of it as part of the salvation process for he himself did not baptise, and we have his oh so simple saving formula which he gave to the jailer "believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved and thy household."

Keep it simple, Get the folks saved, then we can tell them about water baptism and everything else. And baptism is such a joyful occasion ... I LOVE baptism services. keep it joyful, let's not make it onerous.

Why do folks want to enforce things that are meant to make us free indeed? what's their motive?

 

[Wansvic]

Up to this point I entirely agree with you. You ask why in the world would anybody not wish to be water baptised? When it was said to me "Jesus Himself was baptised ... don't you want to follow the Lord?" I asked where's the water?

Paul speaks about what water baptism signifies, I cannot think that Paul thought of it as part of the salvation process for he himself did not baptise, and we have his oh so simple saving formula which he gave to the jailer "believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved and thy household."

Keep it simple, Get the folks saved, then we can tell them about water baptism and everything else. And baptism is such a joyful occasion ... I LOVE baptism services. keep it joyful, let's not make it onerous.

Why do folks want to enforce things that are meant to make us free indeed? what's their motive?

Paul's ministry was primarily preaching that did include explanation of the purpose of water baptism. However, he did administer water baptism:

Paul instructs born again Corinthians concerning the relevance of their water baptism in the name of Jesus:
Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? 1 Cor 1:13

Corinth church members water baptized by Paul:
I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other. 1 Cor 1:14-16

Paul and/or Silas spoke the saving word of the Lord that included the need for water baptism as seen in the Jailer and his family being baptized:
But Paul cried with a loud voice, saying, Do thyself no harm: for we are all here.
Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,
And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.
And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway." Acts 16:28-33


Disciples Paul rebaptized in water after explaining baptism was to be done in the name of the Lord Jesus:
He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
And (afterward) when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied." Acts 19:2-6

 

[Evmur]

Paul's ministry was primarily preaching that did include explanation of the purpose of water baptism. However, he did administer water baptism:

Paul instructs born again Corinthians concerning the relevance of their water baptism in the name of Jesus:
Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? 1 Cor 1:13

Corinth church members water baptized by Paul:
I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other. 1 Cor 1:14-16

Paul and/or Silas spoke the saving word of the Lord that included the need for water baptism as seen in the Jailer and his family being baptized:
But Paul cried with a loud voice, saying, Do thyself no harm: for we are all here.
Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,
And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.
And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway." Acts 16:28-33


Disciples Paul rebaptized in water after explaining baptism was to be done in the name of the Lord Jesus:
He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
And (afterward) when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied." Acts 19:2-6

No the purpose of Paul's message to the Corinthians was to underline the fact that he [Paul] was not their Lord for folks were saying they were followers of Paul. You are trying to get lordship over people with this doctrine. You want people to say I am a disciple of Wansvic.

 

[Lamar]

You should well know the replies to these questions , by that same spirit.

I did now "know" but I suspected that you would claim a supernatural source for your perception.

Thanks for the honest answer.