Replacement theology.

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KJV1611

Senior Member
Nov 23, 2013
13,167
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Great, Romans 11 says they will. So you can quite acting like the Jews are more an enemy of the Gospel than any other unsaved person. And no Jew today is a "Christ killer".
Rom 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

Israel has not obtained what they sought, but the ELECTION have obtained it and the rest were blinded.

Who is Gods elect, the Israelites who were blinded or the ELECT chosen out of Israel?
 

Journeyman

Well-known member
Jan 10, 2019
1,183
553
113
all I can do is show what god has insisted from the time israel was promised until the last words in scripture was written
God shows us Christ from the scriptures.

Originally posted by eternally-grateful
take it up with God man,
I have dear Christian, through prayer and following his teachings.

Originally posted by eternally-grateful the time of jacobs trouble
The time of Jacobs trouble is a time when God's people go through very difficult times.

Originally posted by eternally-grateful7 Alas! For that day is great,
So that none is like it;
And it is the time of Jacob’s trouble,
But he shall be saved out of it.
There is only one "day" that no other is like. It is the time when God himself became man and suffered terribly at the hands of sinners, which we all are.

Originally posted by eternally-grateful
8 ‘For it shall come to pass in that day,’
Says the Lord of hosts,
That I will break his yoke from your neck,
And will burst your bonds;
Foreigners shall no more enslave them.
Please see Jn.8:31-34

Originally posted by eternally-grateful
9 But they shall serve the Lord their God,
And David their king,
Whom I will raise up for them.
Please see Act.2:30

Originally posted by eternally-grateful
10 ‘Therefore do not fear, O My servant Jacob,’ says the Lord,
‘Nor be dismayed, O Israel;
For behold, I will save you from afar,
And your seed from the land of their captivity.

Please see 2Tim.2:26

Originally posted by eternally-grateful
Jacob shall return, have rest and be quiet,
And no one shall make him afraid.
Please see Jn.14:27

Originally posted by eternally-grateful
yeah you are done, you have nothing to show me, you can not read plain scripture then call me a liar
I'm not calling you a liar. You truly believe the things you're saying, but the scriptures are correctly interpreted in the light of Christ.

Originally posted by eternally-grateful
good luck man,mits there in black and right, all you have to do is read it
11 For I am with you,’ says the Lord, ‘to save you;
Though I make a full end of all nations where I have scattered you,
Yet I will not make a complete end of you.
Please see Heb.12:22

Originally posted by eternally-grateful
But I will correct you in justice,
And will not let you go altogether unpunished.’
Please see Heb.12:7
 

KJV1611

Senior Member
Nov 23, 2013
13,167
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Kjvs other problem

he thinks it’s all about salvation

the things I have posted concerns the land, and the promises made to Abraham Isaac and Jacob, the very promise of living in peace being blessed and being a nation that shows the world that the avid of heaven is the true God of the universe.

lev 26 god spoke of those promises and his covenant with THEM

then he totally ignored this passage I posted a few days ago

Ezekiel 36 For I will take you from among the nations, gather you out of all countries, and bring you into your own land. 25 Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them.

28 Then you shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; you shall be My people, and I will be your God.


33 ‘Thus says the Lord God: “On the day that I cleanse you from all your iniquities, I will also enable you to dwell in the cities, and the ruins shall be rebuilt. 34 The desolate land shall be tilled instead of lying desolate in the sight of all who pass by. 35 So they will say, ‘This land that was desolate has become like the garden of Eden; and the wasted, desolate, and ruined cities are now fortified and inhabited.’

again, his argument is with the word, not us,
Heb 11:9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
Heb 11:10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

Why is it that you say the promise was the land of Israel when Abraham was living in that land as SOJOURNER, as in a STRANGE country LOOKING FOR the PROMISED city whose builder and maker is God?
 

KJV1611

Senior Member
Nov 23, 2013
13,167
1,141
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@kaylagrl

Rom 11:1 (KJV) I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

In chapter 10 Paul explains that the kingdom is being taken from Israel given to another nation to provoke Israel to jealousy.

In Romans 11:1-5 Paul, being an Israelite, explains that just because God is finished with Israel, that doesn’t mean that God is casting away the ones he CHOSE out of Israel.

He goes on to say that just as there was remnant in Elijah’s time there was also a remnant during this present time (Paul’s time) according to the ELECTION of grace.
 

KJV1611

Senior Member
Nov 23, 2013
13,167
1,141
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@kaylagrl

Rom 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
The nation of Israel had not obtained salvation but the ELECT of Israel did obtain it.


Rom 11:8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.
Since they would not submit to God, God blinded them and stopped their ears from receiving the gospel.


Rom 11:9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:
Their table (religion) is a snare, a trap, and a stumbling block to all those of Israel who rejected God.

Rom 11:10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.
Their eyes were darkened so that they could not see the truth.

This is the people who you call God’s chosen people.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
15,407
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Only by ignoring context can someone come to the conclusion that "God's chosen people" means a subset of Israel.

In Deuteronomy 5:1, Moses called "all Israel" to himself, and began a long message that continues for many chapters. He recounts the history of Israel from Mt. Sinai to that day, forty years later, when Israel was preparing to cross the Jordan. It is clear from the text that he is addressing the entire nation, not a subset. He retells the ten commandments and reminds Israel of their ("your") sin with the golden calf, and of other moments of rebellion. In the midst of the message, he says this:

Deuteronomy 7:6 For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God: the Lord thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

Later, Moses says this:

Deuteronomy 14:2 For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God, and the Lord hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth.

Again, these statements are made to the entire nation of Israel, not to a subset.

I understand the desire to distinguish "God's chosen people" from rebellious, idolatrous Israel, but the text of Scripture doesn't support that conclusion. The entire Old Testament is the story of God reaching out to His chosen people over and over, and their continual rebellion. God even knew this would happen, and He told Moses in Deuteronomy 31:16-18, but He did not rescind His choice because of it.

"God's chosen people" refers to ancient Israel. It's that simple.
 

luigi

Junior Member
Dec 6, 2015
841
161
43
The ones to whom David refers in Romans 11:8-10 are the unjust who covet fields and take them by violence (Micah 2:1-2). Those who believe in truth and justice are they of Jacob, of whom not the least grain shall fall when the land is surrounded and desolated (Amos 9:9).

Micah 2:1 Woe to them that devise iniquity, and work evil upon their beds! when the morning is light, they practise it, because it is in the power of their hand. 2 And they covet fields, and take them by violence; and houses, and take them away: so they oppress a man and his house, even a man and his heritage.

Amos 9:9 For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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God shows us Christ from the scriptures.

I have dear Christian, through prayer and following his teachings.

The time of Jacobs trouble is a time when God's people go through very difficult times.


There is only one "day" that no other is like. It is the time when God himself became man and suffered terribly at the hands of sinners, which we all are.

Please see Jn.8:31-34


Please see Act.2:30


Please see 2Tim.2:26

Please see Jn.14:27

I'm not calling you a liar. You truly believe the things you're saying, but the scriptures are correctly interpreted in the light of Christ.
Please see Heb.12:22

Please see Heb.12:7
Like your friend KJV

you ignore WHO Jesus is speaking too, about and what is the covenant being spoken of.

to both of you, the words “the land, whom I brought your father out from the land of Egypt and gave to them”mean nothing, somehow you seem to thi i those promises were given to the church. When I am her to try to show you, God never removed the church from the land of Egypt when we were slaves, and he never gave us a plot of land in the middle east

so in essence I must heed what the word says about that, and not ignore it

but thank you for trying
 
Mar 14, 2011
71,465
15,636
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Only by ignoring context can someone come to the conclusion that "God's chosen people" means a subset of Israel.

In Deuteronomy 5:1, Moses called "all Israel" to himself, and began a long message that continues for many chapters. He recounts the history of Israel from Mt. Sinai to that day, forty years later, when Israel was preparing to cross the Jordan. It is clear from the text that he is addressing the entire nation, not a subset. He retells the ten commandments and reminds Israel of their ("your") sin with the golden calf, and of other moments of rebellion. In the midst of the message, he says this:

Deuteronomy 7:6 For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God: the Lord thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

Later, Moses says this:

Deuteronomy 14:2 For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God, and the Lord hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth.

Again, these statements are made to the entire nation of Israel, not to a subset.

I understand the desire to distinguish "God's chosen people" from rebellious, idolatrous Israel, but the text of Scripture doesn't support that conclusion. The entire Old Testament is the story of God reaching out to His chosen people over and over, and their continual rebellion. God even knew this would happen, and He told Moses in Deuteronomy 31:16-18, but He did not rescind His choice because of it.

"God's chosen people" refers to ancient Israel. It's that simple.
Yep, and it was made to all of them, whether they were saved, or not, think of the years of disobedience, yet God showed them grace,

then also think of the years the gentiles lived in sin and were just as evil if not more than they ever were, yet God saved them (like ninevah and the many gentiles who were blessed even under Israel) and how he gave us the word after Christ.

imagine if God treated us like he did Israel, according g to them, we would have no hope, and the last 2000 plus years of the gentile church never would have happened
 
Mar 14, 2011
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Once again!

lev 26: 42 then I will remember My covenant with Jacob, and My covenant with Isaac and My covenant with Abraham I will remember;
I will remember the land.

this is the covenant in question, not the new covenant, and not the old covenant, but the everlasting covenant between God and one nation

Ez 36: I will take you from among the nations, gather you out of all countries, and bring you into your own land.

28 Then you shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; you shall be My people, and I will be your God.

On the day that I cleanse you from all your iniquities, I will also enable you to dwell in the cities, and the ruins shall be rebuilt. 34 The desolate land shall be tilled instead of lying desolate in the sight of all who pass by. 35 So they will say, ‘This land that was desolate has become like the garden of Eden; and the wasted, desolate, and ruined cities are now fortified and inhabited.’

1. It is not new jerusalem it is the Lang God have Abraham Isaac and Jacob
2. it is the land which was destroyed because of Israel sin and left desolate
3. it is promise and will be a sign to those who walk by it and declare in aww how desolate this place was, not a place of great prosperity, blessings, and oh by the way, king Jes will be ruling the world from it,


yeah.. their argument is with the word not us
 

Pilgrimshope

Active member
Sep 2, 2020
498
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Saints sorry can't express how much this false teaching is. I see once again we have a few in your face teaching threads about this lie.
I think I went for to toe with a certain one who was banned from here but has returned under a new name.....anyways...
This theology was taught in the churches a time before and is actually anti semitism.
To say that the church replaces israel or Israel joins the church or the church supersedes Israel is a lie. I'm sure paul would of told us straight up.
To believe this lie one would have to tell God he's a covenant breaker. You would have to change events in the end game book revelation to fit the lie.
It really bothers me that the moderators allow this theology to be expressed on the chat. It is as I said anti-semitism.

Jews don't become christian. Christians don't become jews. .......But we do become one in Christ......how we get there is the greatest story ever told.

“For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery;

Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭3:1-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:6-8, 26-

are you still separating Jew and gentile ? I’m not sure but Paul may be saying something important that was revealed in the New Testament regarding whether there’s a difference in Jew and gentile or whether Abraham’s children are born of flesh and blood , or if Abraham’s children are born through Christ regardless of thier nationality

Israel is born of Gods spirit not abrams flesh

“Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭9:7-8‬ ‭

“And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Paul really did reveal the mystery of Jew and gentile being made heirs of the same promises
 

KJV1611

Senior Member
Nov 23, 2013
13,167
1,141
113
Like your friend KJV

you ignore WHO Jesus is speaking too, about and what is the covenant being spoken of.

to both of you, the words “the land, whom I brought your father out from the land of Egypt and gave to them”mean nothing, somehow you seem to thi i those promises were given to the church. When I am her to try to show you, God never removed the church from the land of Egypt when we were slaves, and he never gave us a plot of land in the middle east

so in essence I must heed what the word says about that, and not ignore it

but thank you for trying
Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

The land was given to Abraham and his ONE SEED, Christ. Gods' chosen people, those that are IN CHRIST are joint heirs with Abraham's ONE SEED Christ.

God hating, stiffnecked, rebellious, flesh descendants of Abraham have no part in the ONE SEED (Christ's) inheritance.
 

kaylagrl

Senior Member
Oct 18, 2014
15,610
3,487
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@kaylagrl

Rom 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
The nation of Israel had not obtained salvation but the ELECT of Israel did obtain it.

Rom 11:8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.
Since they would not submit to God, God blinded them and stopped their ears from receiving the gospel.


Rom 11:9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:
Their table (religion) is a snare, a trap, and a stumbling block to all those of Israel who rejected God.

Rom 11:10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.
Their eyes were darkened so that they could not see the truth.

This is the people who you call God’s chosen people.
Does the chapter stop there? You seem to think it does.

11 Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. 12 But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their full inclusion bring!


17 If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18 do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” 20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.

And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!


*****
25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, 26 and in this way[e] all Israel will be saved. As it is written:

“The deliverer will come from Zion;
he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
27 And this is[f] my covenant with them
when I take away their sins.”[g]


28 As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29 for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable !!!!!

30 Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, 31 so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now[h] receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. 32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
 

KJV1611

Senior Member
Nov 23, 2013
13,167
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Does the chapter stop there? You seem to think it does.
No it doesn't stop there, I was gonna give you a chance to respond the other posts first. I plan on going all the way through Romans 11.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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“For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery;

Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭3:1-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:6-8, 26-

are you still separating Jew and gentile ? I’m not sure but Paul may be saying something important that was revealed in the New Testament regarding whether there’s a difference in Jew and gentile or whether Abraham’s children are born of flesh and blood , or if Abraham’s children are born through Christ regardless of thier nationality

Israel is born of Gods spirit not abrams flesh

“Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭9:7-8‬ ‭

“And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Paul really did reveal the mystery of Jew and gentile being made heirs of the same promises
For salvation everything you said is truth

Concerning Gods covenant with Abraham,Isaac and Jacob. The verses you posted have absolutely nothing to do with that covenant. Can we please remain on topic
 
Mar 14, 2011
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Does the chapter stop there? You seem to think it does.

11 Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. 12 But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their full inclusion bring!


17 If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18 do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” 20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.

And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!


*****
25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, 26 and in this way[e] all Israel will be saved. As it is written:


“The deliverer will come from Zion;
he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
27 And this is[f] my covenant with them
when I take away their sins.”[g]


28 As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29 for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable !!!!!

30 Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, 31 so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now[h] receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. 32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
He can’t get past his hate if Isreal

Again if God treated us like he damages God treats Israel. We would have no hope

His foolish argument that God hating jews have nothing left is irrelevant. Because this is not About God hating jews. It’s about the future God living jews
That’s who I will no longer speak to him. He gave up his right to be spoken to
 

KJV1611

Senior Member
Nov 23, 2013
13,167
1,141
113
@kaylagrl

Rom 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
Did they STUMBLE? No.
Did they FALL? Yes
God made them fall so that salvation could come to the Gentiles and just as important, God made them fall to provoke the Jews to jealousy over the Gentiles so that their jealousy would turn them to God.

Rom 11:12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
If the FALL of them be the riches of the world, so much more is the Jews that will convert to Christ.

Since this is one of your sticking points I'll stop here and wait for your comment.