Retire the Ten Commandments?

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Matthew55

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James 2:10 - For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.

Galatians 3:10 - For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, to perform them.” That sounds very demanding!

To "keep the Sabbath" as it was required in the Old Testament under the Old Covenant would involve compliance with specific regulations (Exodus 16:23; 35:3; Leviticus 23:32; Jeremiah 17:21) that were strictly enforced. So no kindling a fire in any of your dwellings on the sabbath (Exodus 35:3). Every man must remain in his place on the sabbath (Exodus 16:29). No trading (Amos 8:5). No marketing (Nehemiah 10:31; 13:15,19). *Also, according to Exodus 31:12-18; 35:1-3; and Numbers 15:32-36, anyone who profaned the Sabbath was put to death and any person who does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from his people. That also sounds very demanding!

As Paul explained in 2 Corinthians 3:6-9, "He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant — not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills...the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone...the ministry that condemns." But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory.

In Galatians 6:2, we read - "Bear one another’s burdens, and thereby fulfill the law of Christ." The law of Christ is also mentioned in 1 Corinthians 9:21 and although the Bible does not seem to give a precise, specific definition of the law of Christ, many people understand the law of Christ to be what Christ stated in the two great commandments. Mark 12:28 - One of the scribes came and heard them arguing, and recognizing that He had answered them well, asked Him, “What commandment is the foremost of all?” 29 Jesus answered, “The foremost is, ‘Hear, O Israel! The Lord our God is one Lord; 30 and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ 31 The second is this, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”

In place of the Mosaic law and being under the law in the Old Testament, Christians are to fulfill the law of Christ. Rather than being under 613 laws under the old covenant, Christians are to love God and loving others as ourself. If Christians were to obey these two great commands, we would be fulfilling the law of Christ.

Sadly, there are those who pervert the gospel by teaching salvation by "grace plus law, faith plus works." Here is an example below from a statement made by a former member of Christian Chat (who happens to be SDA) that I was once in a discussion with.

"There is another Gospel out there. What is the other Gospel? It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's Law (10 commandments) from the Cross. The counterfeit Gospel is out there. It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's 10 commandments from the plan of salvation. God’s Law has always been part of the true Gospel of Christ. The counterfeit Gospel does not have it. God's forever Law (the 10 commandments) is the foundation of both the Old and the New Covenant and the very foundation and basis of the true Gospel of Christ."

Of course that statement above is absolutely FALSE. During his time on Christian Chat (prior to getting banned) this SDA had a link to a website called, "TheBeastsMarkiscoming" that promotes the idea that those who worship God on Sunday instead of Saturday will receive the mark of the beast. He was absolutely obsessed with turning keeping the Sabbath day into a legalistic prescription for salvation for the Church in the New Testament, contrary to scripture.
So you believe that living the letter of the Law was more demanding than living the spirit of the law?

To me, living the letter of the law was like living a lower law, as it says, the law was a schoolmaster to bring us to Christ, or bring us to a higher order, in fact the new law of Christ (Galations 6:2) So yes we are free from the regulations of the law and no one is going to be put to death for profaning on the Sabbath. So does that mean we can now profane all day on the Lords day? Is that the spirit of the law?
For instance:
Jesus said that the law says that you commit adultry when you lay with a woman that you are not married to. That is the letter of the law. Then Jesus said that the spirit of the law is: even if you look upon a woman with lust, you have committed adultry in your heart.

So I would say that in some ways the lower law of regulations were very demanding, but I also say that the higher law of Christ demands a higher life standard that can be even more demanding on your moral integrity.

A higher law is always more demanding than a lower law. But perhaps more demanding in a different way than the lower law.

It just seems like that some Christians feel: now we are not under that Law of Moses, as long as we say we believe in Christ we can do anything we wish and Christ will cover us and no consequences to our behavior and we will slide into heaven on a rainbow and all is well.

I think there is more to it than that.
 
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The apostles touched JESUS physically but GOD was IN CHRIST.

( Man looks at the outside but GOD looks at the heart. )

JESUS said that HIS words are Spirit and they are LIFE.

John 6:61-63
King James Version


61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?

62 [What] and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?

63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life.

+++

John 14:1-10
King James Version


1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?

6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
 
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So you believe that living the letter of the Law was more demanding than living the spirit of the law?

To me, living the letter of the law was like living a lower law, as it says, the law was a schoolmaster to bring us to Christ, or bring us to a higher order, in fact the new law of Christ (Galations 6:2) So yes we are free from the regulations of the law and no one is going to be put to death for profaning on the Sabbath. So does that mean we can now profane all day on the Lords day? Is that the spirit of the law?
For instance:
Jesus said that the law says that you commit adultry when you lay with a woman that you are not married to. That is the letter of the law. Then Jesus said that the spirit of the law is: even if you look upon a woman with lust, you have committed adultry in your heart.

So I would say that in some ways the lower law of regulations were very demanding, but I also say that the higher law of Christ demands a higher life standard that can be even more demanding on your moral integrity.

A higher law is always more demanding than a lower law. But perhaps more demanding in a different way than the lower law.

It just seems like that some Christians feel: now we are not under that Law of Moses, as long as we say we believe in Christ we can do anything we wish and Christ will cover us and no consequences to our behavior and we will slide into heaven on a rainbow and all is well.

I think there is more to it than that.
Yes everyone that Is born of GOD have become a new creation and GODs workmanship created In CHRIST unto good works and will seek to purify themselves even as they are pure.
 

mailmandan

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So you believe that living the letter of the Law was more demanding than living the spirit of the law?
In regards to rules and regulations attached to those laws, along with physical consequences within the community of Hebrews for failing to abide by those rules and regulations, yes.

To me, living the letter of the law was like living a lower law, as it says, the law was a schoolmaster to bring us to Christ, or bring us to a higher order, in fact the new law of Christ (Galations 6:2)
Keep reading in Galatians 3:24 - ..that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

So yes we are free from the regulations of the law and no one is going to be put to death for profaning on the Sabbath.
Amen!

So does that mean we can now profane all day on the Lords day? Is that the spirit of the law?
I never said that. No need for straw man arguments.

For instance: Jesus said that the law says that you commit adultry when you lay with a woman that you are not married to. That is the letter of the law. Then Jesus said that the spirit of the law is: even if you look upon a woman with lust, you have committed adultry in your heart.
Jesus did clarify that it's not only the physical act of adultery that is considered adultery, but to lust after a woman is also considered adultery, for that person has committed adultery with her in his heart. Thank God for the blood of Christ! Show me a man who has NEVER ONCE in his entire lifetime had a lustful thought towards a woman and I will show you a liar.

So I would say that in some ways the lower law of regulations were very demanding, but I also say that the higher law of Christ demands a higher life standard that can be even more demanding on your moral integrity.
On this we agree.

A higher law is always more demanding than a lower law. But perhaps more demanding in a different way than the lower law.
Different way, perhaps.

It just seems like that some Christians feel: now we are not under that Law of Moses, as long as we say we believe in Christ we can do anything we wish and Christ will cover us and no consequences to our behavior and we will slide into heaven on a rainbow and all is well.

I think there is more to it than that.
That is one extreme -- continue in sin (willful, habitual lifestyle) so that grace may abound. The other extreme is salvation based on the merits of our performance/works salvation. I promote neither a license to sin or salvation by works.
 

mailmandan

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So you believe that living the letter of the Law was more demanding than living the spirit of the law?
In regards to rules and regulations attached to those laws, along with physical consequences within the community of Hebrews for failing to abide by those rules and regulations, yes.

To me, living the letter of the law was like living a lower law, as it says, the law was a schoolmaster to bring us to Christ, or bring us to a higher order, in fact the new law of Christ (Galations 6:2)
Keep reading in Galatians 3:24 - ..that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

So yes we are free from the regulations of the law and no one is going to be put to death for profaning on the Sabbath.
Amen!

So does that mean we can now profane all day on the Lords day? Is that the spirit of the law?
I never said that. No need for straw man arguments.

For instance: Jesus said that the law says that you commit adultry when you lay with a woman that you are not married to. That is the letter of the law. Then Jesus said that the spirit of the law is: even if you look upon a woman with lust, you have committed adultry in your heart.
Jesus did clarify that it's not only the physical act of adultery that is considered adultery, but to lust after a woman is also considered adultery, for that person has committed adultery with her in his heart. Thank God for the blood of Christ! Show me a man who has NEVER ONCE in his entire lifetime had a lustful thought towards a woman and I will show you a liar.

So I would say that in some ways the lower law of regulations were very demanding, but I also say that the higher law of Christ demands a higher life standard that can be even more demanding on your moral integrity.
On this we agree.

A higher law is always more demanding than a lower law. But perhaps more demanding in a different way than the lower law.
Different way, perhaps.

It just seems like that some Christians feel: now we are not under that Law of Moses, as long as we say we believe in Christ we can do anything we wish and Christ will cover us and no consequences to our behavior and we will slide into heaven on a rainbow and all is well.
That is one extreme -- continue in sin (willful, habitual lifestyle) so that grace may abound. The other extreme is salvation based on the merits of our performance/works salvation. I promote neither a license to sin or salvation by works.

I think there is more to it than that.
So where do you draw the line in the sand? If you were standing at the gates of heaven right now and Jesus Christ asked you why He should let you into heaven, what would be your exact answer?
 

Endoscopy

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Oct 13, 2017
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So you believe that living the letter of the Law was more demanding than living the spirit of the law?

To me, living the letter of the law was like living a lower law, as it says, the law was a schoolmaster to bring us to Christ, or bring us to a higher order, in fact the new law of Christ (Galations 6:2) So yes we are free from the regulations of the law and no one is going to be put to death for profaning on the Sabbath. So does that mean we can now profane all day on the Lords day? Is that the spirit of the law?
For instance:
Jesus said that the law says that you commit adultry when you lay with a woman that you are not married to. That is the letter of the law. Then Jesus said that the spirit of the law is: even if you look upon a woman with lust, you have committed adultry in your heart.

So I would say that in some ways the lower law of regulations were very demanding, but I also say that the higher law of Christ demands a higher life standard that can be even more demanding on your moral integrity.

A higher law is always more demanding than a lower law. But perhaps more demanding in a different way than the lower law.

It just seems like that some Christians feel: now we are not under that Law of Moses, as long as we say we believe in Christ we can do anything we wish and Christ will cover us and no consequences to our behavior and we will slide into heaven on a rainbow and all is well.

I think there is more to it than that.
I have my doubts that most on this site even know what the law says. Here it is. Here is a file I keep stating what Jesus said about the law and sites listing and explaining the law.

Matthew 5 AMPC
17 Do not think that I have come to do away with or undo the Law or the Prophets; I have come not to do away with or undo but to complete and fulfill them.
18 For truly I tell you, until the sky and earth pass away and perish, not one smallest letter nor one little hook [identifying certain Hebrew letters] will pass from the Law until all things [it foreshadows] are accomplished.
19 Whoever then breaks or does away with or relaxes one of the least [important] of these commandments and teaches men so shall be called least [important] in the kingdom of heaven, but he who practices them and teaches others to do so shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.


In addition to the 10 commandments there are the laws scattered through the Torah.

List of the 613 laws in the Torah
http://www.gods-word-first.org/bible-study/613commandments.html

Discussion about the 613 laws in the Torah
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_commandments
 

Matthew55

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I have my doubts that most on this site even know what the law says. Here it is. Here is a file I keep stating what Jesus said about the law and sites listing and explaining the law.

Matthew 5 AMPC
17 Do not think that I have come to do away with or undo the Law or the Prophets; I have come not to do away with or undo but to complete and fulfill them.
18 For truly I tell you, until the sky and earth pass away and perish, not one smallest letter nor one little hook [identifying certain Hebrew letters] will pass from the Law until all things [it foreshadows] are accomplished.
19 Whoever then breaks or does away with or relaxes one of the least [important] of these commandments and teaches men so shall be called least [important] in the kingdom of heaven, but he who practices them and teaches others to do so shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.


In addition to the 10 commandments there are the laws scattered through the Torah.

List of the 613 laws in the Torah
http://www.gods-word-first.org/bible-study/613commandments.html

Discussion about the 613 laws in the Torah
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_commandments
So you are OK with circumsizing your children? You keep the Saturday Sabbath? You keep all the feasts and festivals that the OT Israelites did? You put to death people who profane on the Sabbath. You put to death those that are caught in adultry?

IOW, how do you reconcile the law of Moses with the New Testament?
 

Endoscopy

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So you are OK with circumsizing your children? You keep the Saturday Sabbath? You keep all the feasts and festivals that the OT Israelites did? You put to death people who profane on the Sabbath. You put to death those that are caught in adultry?

IOW, how do you reconcile the law of Moses with the New Testament?
ROFL
I worked with a man that was not circumsized and had an infection as a result and then was circumsized for prevention of it happening again!! It makes the Bible proved correct!!
 

Matthew55

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ROFL
I worked with a man that was not circumsized and had an infection as a result and then was circumsized for prevention of it happening again!! It makes the Bible proved correct!!
Thats great that you friend found a solution for his infection. So how do you reconcile the law of Moses with the New Testament?

You have to remember that I am mostly on your side, but I need to know your answer to this question.
 
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how do you reconcile the law of Moses with
The law was added because of Adam's transgression meaning man would need to be perfectly righteous by his own strength In order to reconcile with GOD but because of the weakness of the flesh man would not be able to be perfectly righteous to GOD and would come short of the glory of GOD,so then their was no way to reconcile with GOD under law.

But we see JESUS.

GRACE and TRUTH came by JESUS.GOD In CHRIST took back the power from the devil RIGHTEOUSLY that Adam handed over to him but JESUS as a man was perfectly righteous and bridged the gap between man and GOD and now the Issue Is no longer about being perfect with our own strength but Faith In the WORD of GOD.

GRACE through faith.
 
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I have my doubts that most on this site even know what the law says. Here it is. Here is a file I keep stating what Jesus said about the law and sites listing and explaining the law.

Matthew 5 AMPC
17 Do not think that I have come to do away with or undo the Law or the Prophets; I have come not to do away with or undo but to complete and fulfill them.
18 For truly I tell you, until the sky and earth pass away and perish, not one smallest letter nor one little hook [identifying certain Hebrew letters] will pass from the Law until all things [it foreshadows] are accomplished.
19 Whoever then breaks or does away with or relaxes one of the least [important] of these commandments and teaches men so shall be called least [important] in the kingdom of heaven, but he who practices them and teaches others to do so shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.


In addition to the 10 commandments there are the laws scattered through the Torah.

List of the 613 laws in the Torah
http://www.gods-word-first.org/bible-study/613commandments.html

Discussion about the 613 laws in the Torah
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_commandments
Yes,ALL the law and the prophets are summed up In one word,love.
 

Endoscopy

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Oct 13, 2017
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Thats great that you friend found a solution for his infection. So how do you reconcile the law of Moses with the New Testament?

You have to remember that I am mostly on your side, but I need to know your answer to this question.
I'll post this quote of Jesus again!

Matthew 5:17 and 18 AMPC
17 Do not think that I have come to do away with or undo the Law or the Prophets; I have come not to do away with or undo but to complete and fulfill them.
18 For truly I tell you, until the sky and earth pass away and perish, not one smallest letter nor one little hook [identifying certain Hebrew letters] will pass from the Law until all things [it foreshadows] are accomplished.

In addition to the 10 commandments there are the laws scattered through the Torah. Maimonides counted and documented them. No one has found any more.

The 613 laws of God.
https://www.gospeloutreach.net/613laws.html

Discussion of the 613 laws of God
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_commandments
 

preston39

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Dec 18, 2017
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So, you are afraid of newer translations. No need to be afraid of anything when you have the HS to teach you. Even the KJV has been tampered with but God is greater than the evildoers doing the tampering. I do grant you, some new versions have a lot of doctrine read into them: like the "Living Bible." :)(y):cool:
The newbie does not yet have discernment, Not afraid...just precaution. Understand your other point...however, we must stay away from strange doctrine. The new age religion interpretations are just that.
 
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I'll post this quote of Jesus again!

Matthew 5:17 and 18 AMPC
17 Do not think that I have come to do away with or undo the Law or the Prophets; I have come not to do away with or undo but to complete and fulfill them.
18 For truly I tell you, until the sky and earth pass away and perish, not one smallest letter nor one little hook [identifying certain Hebrew letters] will pass from the Law until all things [it foreshadows] are accomplished.

In addition to the 10 commandments there are the laws scattered through the Torah. Maimonides counted and documented them. No one has found any more.

The 613 laws of God.
https://www.gospeloutreach.net/613laws.html

Discussion of the 613 laws of God
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_commandments
He asked how do YOU reconcile the law of Moses with the new testament not how did JESUS reconciled the law of Moses with the New Testament.I reconcile the law of Moses with the New Testament by believing the WORD of GOD.
 

Endoscopy

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He asked how do YOU reconcile the law of Moses with the new testament not how did JESUS reconciled the law of Moses with the New Testament.I reconcile the law of Moses with the New Testament by believing the WORD of GOD.
Since Jesus is what the New Testament is all about it becomes very obvious. Your question is foolish.
 

Grandpa

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Since Jesus is what the New Testament is all about it becomes very obvious. Your question is foolish.
No. Its a good question.

What appears obvious to you may or may not be a proper interpretation of scripture.

That's what both posters are asking you.

In your words.

Most people, I have noticed, don't really know what Matthew 5:17-18 says but they think they do. I wonder what you think it says.
 

Sketch

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Nov 1, 2018
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So you believe that living the letter of the Law was more demanding than living the spirit of the law?
The term, "the spirit of the law" is not biblical.
 

Sketch

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WASHINGTON – A mega-pastor of one of the largest “evangelical” churches in the U.S. is attacking the Old Testament again, this time insisting Jesus rendered the Ten Commandments null and void, issuing one new law “as a replacement for everything.” Andy Stanley, pastor of the 34,000-member North Point Community Church in suburban Atlanta, who famously advised his flock to “unhitch” from the Old Testament in a sermon last spring, has now penned an article promoting his new book saying laws such as “Thou shalt have no other gods before me” and “Thou shalt not kill” are no longer relevant to Christians living in the New Covenant era……Read More


He must have been talking with the pope.

A new, new age religion concept........."great deceptions in the end times".

The Bible does not change. People try to change the Bible....by reinterpretation or a new bible edition.

This is not even believable. To the dung heap.
Were the Ten Commandments "engraved in letters on stone"?
If so, this scripture says they were the transitory ministry that brought condemnation and death which has no glory now.
Other than that, they are awesome. lol - (the letter kills)

2 Corinthians 3:6-11
He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!
 

Endoscopy

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Oct 13, 2017
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No. Its a good question.

What appears obvious to you may or may not be a proper interpretation of scripture.

That's what both posters are asking you.

In your words.

Most people, I have noticed, don't really know what Matthew 5:17-18 says but they think they do. I wonder what you think it says.
It says exactly what is stated. Here is a longer quote.

Matthew 5 NIV
The Fulfillment of the Law
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Sin is defined as breaking God's law. Keep in mind when we say we sin we are admitting God's law is in place just like Jesus stated it will be in force until the heavens and earth disappear. Therefore since that hasn't happened the law is still in force. Otherwise Jesus lied. Are you accusing Jesus of lying? Keep in mind at judgement time those that didn't accept the grace through faith in Jesus will be judged according to the law.

Without the law we wouldn't need the grace!!
 

Sketch

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Jesus explained what he meant in Matt.5:`7 in this scripture.
This is what he meant by fulfilling the Law or the Prophets. (the prophecies)

Luke 24:44
He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.”