Rev 17, Who is the Woman? Jerusalem Vs Rome

[prove-all]

http://sacred-texts.com/jud/josephus/ant-11.htm they were not lost from view see chapter5.2,,,,

the link says...

"wherefore there are but two tribes in Asia and Europe subject to the Iomans,

while the ten tribes are beyond Euphrates till now, and are an immense multitude,
and not to be estimated by numbers."

x

These two groups, the no. kingdom of Israel, and the so kingdom of Judah,
did not come back together then .

1) In 721-718 b.c. Israel began to be “carried away out of their own land to Assyria” (2 Kings 17:23).
They were soon all removed—completely. “[T]here was none left but the tribe of Judah only”
(verse 18). Judah, only, remained.

2) More than 130 years later, Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon carried the Jews—Judah—who only
remained in Palestine away to Babylon. So none of the house of Israel dwelt in Palestine at the
time of this captivity of Judah.

3) Those who returned to Palestine to rebuild the temple and restore worship 70 years after Judah’s
captivity were all of the house of Judah—all Jews—all of those whom Nebuchadnezzar had carried
away. They returned again “unto Jerusalem and Judah, every one unto his city” (Ezra 2:1).

Only those of the tribe of Judah, together with remnants of Benjamin and Levi, who constituted
the house of Judah, returned at that time. “Then rose up the chief of the fathers of Judah and
Benjamin, and the priests, and the Levites?…” (Ezra 1:5).



The current nation of Israel is a misnomer, They are of the tribes of Judah and Benjamin.

 

[Katy-follower]

Daniel 9:26: "And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah (Jesus) shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people (Romans) of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary...."


Yes, Messiah was cut off/crucified (fulfilled)
The Romans then destroyed the temple (fulfilled)
The future prince who is to come (not yet fulfilled) - it gives a clue by saying the people who destroyed the temple (Romans) are of the prince to come, so we know the future prince is someone from the revived Roman empire.


Continuing......

Daniel 9:27: "Then he (roman prince) shall confirm a covenant with many for one week (7 yrs);
But in the middle of the week (3.5 yrs)
he shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering (he will break the contract)
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate.”



There's a distinction made between "He" in V26 and "he" in V27. A capital letter is always used when God is mentioned, and a lower case for everyone else. This is just additional confirmation, because as I see it the prince in V27 is Antichrist, not Jesus.

None of verse 27 has been fulfilled yet, so it points to a future time.

 

[prove-all]

Brother, Who is a descendant of Jacob/Israel today? Is there any way to tell? .

Thus says the Lord, The Holy One of Israel, and his Maker:
“Ask Me of things to come concerning My sons;
And concerning the work of My hands, you command Me.
https://www.bible.com/search/bible?q=holy one of israel

 

[Nehemiah6]

Then I ask you again of the kingdom established in 1948 is it the one that is carnal where the Jews receive the one who comes in his own name or is it God establishing the restored kingdom to Israel?

When the Zionists managed to establish Israel in Palestine in 1948, it was certainly NOT the "kingdom of Israel". It was simply a secular nation state. But God used the Zionists, the British, and the Americans to further His own plans for Israel in the future, since there is no question that ultimately Christ will establish greater Israel from the Nile to the Euphrates.

As to the kingdom of the Beast (the Antichrist) it will be a worldwide kingdom, with its base in Jerusalem, and cooperation with Rome. The Abomination of Desolation (an image of either the Antichrist or Satan) will be erected in the Holy Place of the third temple (which is currently being planned in Israel). There are many details on which it is better not to speculate, so I will not discuss the head that received a wound etc. That is all for the future.

 

[Waggles]

Communism/fascism would definitely put an end to Rome!

How amazing it is that in 1917 in October at about the time of
the Bolshevik revolution in Russia Satan disguised as Mary the Mother of God
in his false most spectacular apparition appears to 3 children at Fatima, Portugal.

•A MESSAGE OF WARNING AND HOPE [Catholic sources on Fatima]
•If we do not heed Our Lady's warnings soon, then her horrible prophesy
may well be realized in the near future, even in our own back yards.
She told us that God had chosen to use Russia as the instrument
of chastisement to punish the whole world, if we did not by our obedience,
prayers, and sacrifices, obtain conversion of Russia to the Catholic faith.
She promises us: “If my requests are granted, Russia will be converted and
there will be peace.”
•But she also warned us: “If My requests are not granted,
Russia will spread her errors throughout the world, raising up wars
and persecutions against the Church, the good will be martyred,
the Holy Father will have much to suffer, various nations will be annihilated.”
•She has told us that the whole world (the part surviving) will be enslaved
by the atheistic tyrants of Russia.

Now why is Satan concerned about Russia and the future way back in 1917??

 

[Waggles]

they certainly are not worshipping Jesus

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

^ They worship other gods beside (or in addition to) Jesus. As wrong as this is, it's also wrong to misrepresent them. Catholics do worship Jesus, they pray to Jesus and they believe in Jesus. The Catholic Church does not deny Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Quite the opposite. While your eyes are fixed on Catholicism the real dragon is creeping in around and behind you unnoticed.
Nearly all Christian denominations have some form of error.

 

[garee]

lol, I can assure you my friend that the preterist camp will not say that I am of them. But then as it seems the same is said of the disp./futurist camp. In fact if you review the answers I gave to BR of mine own name Naarden, you could ponder that if I am Jewish by blood and I said to him that I believed that Jesus is my Lord.and my forefathers then even the Jews who are of the Jewish faith will henceforth turn and spit when they hear my name. The just of it is that being outside the camps at first was quite lonely but is a very warm place now.

I would like to ask you something first that I see as a type of turning point in seeing the things you spoke of and then I would like to look very close at what you see(things you said) in this post if you will suffer it my friend.

What I am curious of is how you see John 5:43,,,is this something that the Jews will one day do in that Jesus said that they would receive one who would come in his own name?

Brother it sounds like you are describing son of the freewoman, as an ambassador for Christ, sent from a foreign land, the new heavenly Jerusalem.... camping out in the wilderness. It's always warmer by the fire .

Joh 6:43 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves.

They murmured because it was what the bible calls a "hard saying" .It was not hard to understand but offensive as in who would want to hear it or who can hear it .It offended them when the Son of man put Gentiles on equal footing by proclaiming even his own Jewish flesh profits for nothing.It is the unseen Spirit that does give spirit life.

They loved to walk after the flesh as what the eyes see if the kingdom did come by observation. They were not walking by the faith that comes from hearing God through the scriptures as in all things written in the law and the prophets (sola scriptura) Like the Catholic they called it a heresy.

Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it? When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you? Joh 6:60

It is not from a the flesh of a Jew that we receive the faith of God as the labor of His love that work in the believer to both will and perform as we are yoked with Him, they are yoked by the outward flesh of a Jew not mixing faith the unseen in what they do see or hear .

 

[Katy-follower]

Catholics do worship Jesus, they pray to Jesus and they believe in Jesus. The Catholic Church does not deny Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Quite the opposite. Nearly all Christian denominations have some form of error.

This is the one I thought of...

John 4:24: "God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”


For the most part, denominations agree on the gospel and just differ on non salvational things.

Catholicism is a separate religion though, which teaches a different gospel.

 

[Bladerunner]

Then in other words he will come and he will come in a kingdom that is seen as Israel, the kingdom of God. When he does come they will receive him and why is because he rose in the correct place(Israel not Cuba) and they will receive him because they believe he is the Messiah and why Jesus points out in John 5:43(they don't believe he is),so when the other comes they will think that he is the Messiah.

I believe that verse in John 5:43...."The Other" pretains to the Anti-christ. If you are Jewish as you claim, you have to rem to rightly divide the Bible..... The Kingdom Jesus spoke of in His Ministry was the Millennium. Had the Jewish Nation accepted Jesus as their messiah, I believe (because Steven saw Jesus Standing up on the right hand of God) the Millennium would have started then and History would have taken a huge right-handed turn.

They did not accept him, Jesus did not come back and the Millennium did not star!!!.

Daniel's 70th week, a tribulation period designed by God to punish the unbelievers, and bring a remnant of Israel (only 1/3 of them) back to Him. This remnant will first receive the New Covenant that Jesus Spoke of and then will help Jesus rule all other nations of the World.

Blessings

Blade

 

[Bladerunner]

^ They worship other gods beside (or in addition to) Jesus. As wrong as this is, it's also wrong to misrepresent them. Catholics do worship Jesus, they pray to Jesus and they believe in Jesus. The Catholic Church does not deny Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Quite the opposite. While your eyes are fixed on Catholicism the real dragon is creeping in around and behind you unnoticed.
Nearly all Christian denominations have some form of error.

Lucy----Do you know why Sodom was destroyed?

 

[iamsoandso]

I believe that verse in John 5:43...."The Other" pretains to the Anti-christ. If you are Jewish as you claim, you have to rem to rightly divide the Bible..... The Kingdom Jesus spoke of in His Ministry was the Millennium. Had the Jewish Nation accepted Jesus as their messiah, I believe (because Steven saw Jesus Standing up on the right hand of God) the Millennium would have started then and History would have taken a huge right-handed turn.

They did not accept him, Jesus did not come back and the Millennium did not star!!!.

Daniel's 70th week, a tribulation period designed by God to punish the unbelievers, and bring a remnant of Israel (only 1/3 of them) back to Him. This remnant will first receive the New Covenant that Jesus Spoke of and then will help Jesus rule all other nations of the World.

Blessings

Blade

ok I suppose, What exactly do you mean by "rightly divide the bible"?

 

[garee]

This is the one I thought of...

John 4:24: "God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”


For the most part, denominations agree on the gospel and just differ on non salvational things.

Catholicism is a separate religion though, which teaches a different gospel.

Yes a different one that denies the grace of Christ as to the fullness of His grace coming from his labor of love or what scriptures call a work of His faith . They offer a unknown remnant with the remainder as a work they can finish in a unknown place (purgatory )for a unknown amount of time, and a unknown amount of severity. And call that the gospel .

 

[garee]

ok I suppose, What exactly do you mean by "rightly divide the bible"?

I would think it would be according the spirit of the law the unseen Spirit of faith (Christ) and not according to the letter of the law, walking by sight of the outward flesh of a Jew.

Difference between an inward jew born of the Spirit of Christ and an outward jew in respect to what ones sees the temporal.

The Jew that that refused to believe the veil is rent are the same as those who refuse the time of reformation had come and the use of the outward flesh. The time period in which the temporal flesh of a Jew which was a parable for the time then present had come.From my experiences it is something they refuse to acknowlegde because if they did confess he did come in the flesh they would not be trying to mend the vail.

What do you think the the reformation restored to as a time period?? Before kings were in Jerusalem . Perhaps to the period of judges?

Heb 9:8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:
Heb 9:9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
Heb 9:10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Heb 9:10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

"The time of reformation" mentioned here has nothing to do with the Protestant Reformation or any other reformation. The Greek word is diorthosis, which literally means "making straight", but spiritually means "rectification", hence "reformation". It is a reference to THE ESTABLISHMENT OF THE NEW COVENANT following the crucifixion of Christ, and the nullification of the Old Covenant.

The day Christ died He proclaimed triumphantly "It is finished". That day the Old Covenant was nullified, and as proof, God Himself tore the curtain dividing the Holy of Holies from the Holy Place. However, the epistle to the Hebrews explains what this "reformation" is all about since the way into the Holiest Place in the Heavenly Sanctuary (Heb 9:8) was opened to us through the shed blood of Christ.

 

[iamsoandso]

I would think it would be according the spirit of the law the unseen Spirit of faith (Christ) and not according to the letter of the law, walking by sight of the outward flesh of a Jew.

Difference between an inward jew born of the Spirit of Christ and an outward jew in respect to what ones sees the temporal.

The Jew that that refused to believe the veil is rent are the same as those who refuse the time of reformation had come and the use of the outward flesh. The time period in which the temporal flesh of a Jew which was a parable for the time then present had come.From my experiences it is something they refuse to acknowlegde because if they did confess he did come in the flesh they would not be trying to mend the vail.

What do you think the the reformation restored to as a time period?? Before kings were in Jerusalem . Perhaps to the period of judges?

Heb 9:8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:
Heb 9:9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
Heb 9:10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

Yes in fact Isaiah 1:26,,,

lol, it is an odd thing that my flesh is what one would call Jewish, yet it is shocking that my faith in Jesus as Lord is of little consequence I suppose if there was a circle and a dot in it then there it is he is a Jew...

 

[garee]

"The time of reformation" mentioned here has nothing to do with the Protestant Reformation or any other reformation. The Greek word is diorthosis, which literally means "making straight", but spiritually means "rectification", hence "reformation". It is a reference to THE ESTABLISHMENT OF THE NEW COVENANT following the crucifixion of Christ, and the nullification of the Old Covenant.

The day Christ died He proclaimed triumphantly "It is finished". That day the Old Covenant was nullified, and as proof, God Himself tore the curtain dividing the Holy of Holies from the Holy Place. However, the epistle to the Hebrews explains what this "reformation" is all about since the way into the Holiest Place in the Heavenly Sanctuary (Heb 9:8) was opened to us through the shed blood of Christ.

Amen... it becomes the carbon copy of any reformation. when men call all that is written in the law and the prophets (sola scriptura ) a heresy (opinion and not the very law of of God .

Act 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

The difference seems clear. Paul who once worshipped the fathers as a false zeal for knowing God killing the outward perceived competition as in out of sight out of mind as if they were our father in heaven even though Christ said one is our father in heaven .He now worshipped the God of our father not seen .Again not the fathers as if they were God .The same error the Catholic remains under.

The bible refers of it as one of the think nots...or do not even think about it rather than walking by faith (the unseen).

Matthew 3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

The Catholics as a carbon copy as those who must walk by sight simply replace the word Abraham with the word Peter. Peter like us one of the many lively little stones that does make up the spiritual unseen house of God. the church .

I will paraphrase it below in green

And think not to say within yourselves, We have Peter to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones (spiritual) to raise up children unto Peter .

The name is changed not the intent of usurping the authority of our one father in heaven .

 

[garee]

Yes in fact Isaiah 1:26,,,

lol, it is an odd thing that my flesh is what one would call Jewish, yet it is shocking that my faith in Jesus as Lord is of little consequence I suppose if there was a circle and a dot in it then there it is he is a Jew...

Amen The city prepared as his bride according to his righteousness of faith. not seen , the faithful city. The new name he named us in Acts . Christian, a word when defined not adding other meanings to it that literally mean "residents of the eternal city in respect to her founder, Christ .

Just as any other city using the suffix ian to represent the residents thereof . Like the Galatians from the city of Galatia in respect to her founder. Or the Nicolaitanes as to its residents named after her founder... Nicholas .

Isa 1:26 And I will restore thy judges as at the first, and thy counsellors as at the beginning: afterward thou shalt be called, The city of righteousness, the faithful city.

 

[Bladerunner]

ok I suppose, What exactly do you mean by "rightly divide the bible"?

See 2Tim 2:15 and Eph 3:2, 1Co 9:17, Eph 1:10, Col 1:25... and then; but First, how do you normally interpret the Bible?

 

[Bladerunner]

Yes in fact Isaiah 1:26,,,

lol, it is an odd thing that my flesh is what one would call Jewish, yet it is shocking that my faith in Jesus as Lord is of little consequence I suppose if there was a circle and a dot in it then there it is he is a Jew...

In the Body of Christ, you are simply a believer, part of His Bride. A Christian to outsiders, a Brother in Christ to insiders.

Blessings
Blade