Rev 17, Who is the Woman? Jerusalem Vs Rome

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Katy-follower

Senior Member
Jun 25, 2011
2,704
131
63
Yes a different one that denies the grace of Christ as to the fullness of His grace coming from his labor of love or what scriptures call a work of His faith . They offer a unknown remnant with the remainder as a work they can finish in a unknown place (purgatory )for a unknown amount of time, and a unknown amount of severity. And call that the gospel .
I went to a convent school when I was little, and some of my family are still catholics. It's a shame, as catholics have such a zeal, but not according to knowledge. Reminds me of Romans 10:1-3.

The sacrificial mass is at the heart of it. It's a non bloody sacrifice which is offered up for sins, and the priest claims to have the power and authority to bring Jesus down from His throne... that Jesus obeys the priest, and is then offered up repeatedly in each mass. It's a complete rejection of Jesus and His ONE perfect sacrifice for sins forever. By adding to the work of Jesus on the cross they are saying that He alone is not sufficient to save anyone.

It reminds me of this scripture....

Hebrews 10:11-18:

"And every priest stands ministering daily and offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God, from that time waiting till His enemies are made His footstool. For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.

But the Holy Spirit also witnesses to us; for after He had said before, “This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them,” then He adds, “Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.” Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin"
 

Katy-follower

Senior Member
Jun 25, 2011
2,704
131
63
How amazing it is that in 1917 in October at about the time of
the Bolshevik revolution in Russia Satan disguised as Mary the Mother of God
in his false most spectacular apparition appears to 3 children at Fatima, Portugal.

A MESSAGE OF WARNING AND HOPE [Catholic sources on Fatima]
•If we do not heed Our Lady's warnings soon, then her horrible prophesy
may well be realized in the near future, even in our own back yards.
She told us that God had chosen to use Russia as the instrument
of chastisement to punish the whole world,
if we did not by our obedience,
prayers, and sacrifices, obtain conversion of Russia to the Catholic faith.
She promises us: “If my requests are granted, Russia will be converted and
there will be peace.”

•But she also warned us: “If My requests are not granted,
Russia will spread her errors throughout the world, raising up wars
and persecutions against the Church, the good will be martyred,
the Holy Father will have much to suffer, various nations will be annihilated.”

•She has told us that the whole world (the part surviving) will be enslaved
by the atheistic tyrants of Russia.

Now why is Satan concerned about Russia and the future way back in 1917??
Have to be careful, Waggles. I wouldn't trust any of those sources, especially not apparitions. Remember, Satan is the deceiver.

I personally think communism/fascism will be involved in some way in the last days. If you think about it, it would make it illegal to believe in God, as they would require obedience to their system. And of course, this would then lead to persecution of Christians and Jews. Just my thoughts.

But the scriptures speak of the Roman prince, so have not connected the dots. It's been a while since I really looked into end times scriptures, so need to go over them again :)
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
3,194
34
48
I would think it would be according the spirit of the law the unseen Spirit of faith (Christ) and not according to the letter of the law, walking by sight of the outward flesh of a Jew.

Difference between an inward jew born of the Spirit of Christ and an outward jew in respect to what ones sees the temporal.

The Jew that that refused to believe the veil is rent are the same as those who refuse the time of reformation had come and the use of the outward flesh. The time period in which the temporal flesh of a Jew which was a parable for the time then present had come.From my experiences it is something they refuse to acknowlegde because if they did confess he did come in the flesh they would not be trying to mend the vail.

What do you think the the reformation restored to as a time period?? Before kings were in Jerusalem . Perhaps to the period of judges?

Heb 9:8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:
Heb 9:9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
Heb 9:10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.
In your post you speak of the reformation and the veil and then quote Heb.9:10,,,

Now it could mean anything to me and you this many years later(2018) but looking at Acts 3:21 and bearing in mind that he was speaking while filled with the Holy Spirit does it seem to you that he or the Holy Spirit saw the reformation as if it were a future event or that it was past tense?
 

abcdef

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
2,527
44
48
OK,

I thought about this for 2 weeks. I studied and tried to look at things with an open mind. Here is what I came up with.

---

The city in Rev 17:18 is Rome.

The harlot of Rev 17 is Israel after 70 ad allied with Rome persecuting the kingdom/church. This would show the situation at the time of the writing of the Revelation. Say, 80-96 ad approx.

This is why the woman is seen in the wilderness on the seat of the Roman beast, on the city of Rome Rev 17. Because Jerusalem at this writing was already destroyed.

The woman of Rev 12, who is believing Israel, is also seen in the wilderness after she flees the Roman dragon.

So both women are Israel in the wilderness, after 70 ad, one is faithful Rev 12, and one is a harlot who is united with Rome and persecuting the church/kingdom.

After Jerusalem was destroyed the persecution by the unbelieving Jews continued on the church kingdom outside of the land of Israel.

-----

The little horn/8th head is the Bishop of Rome/Caesar that rules after 476 ad. during the time of the 10 horns/toes/kings. These hate the harlot and burn her. The harlot at that time period cannot be Jerusalem, as it shows the Roman Empire ended and divided. So the woman must continue into that time period as the unbelieving Israel during the times of the gentiles.

This is the same story repeated over and over again in the Revelation. Israel outside of Jerusalem until the times of the gentiles is over and Israel is restored to Jerusalem.

-----

The city and events of Rev 18 are Rome after Jerusalem was destroyed. It is the Babylon that remained after Jerusalem was destroyed and the people were carried away into Babylon.

Just as Israel was carried away from Jerusalem to Babylon the first time, this shows Israel again being carried away into Roman Babylon.

The prophecy shows the fall of Rome. The harlot Israelites who are united with Rome against the church/kingdom are the ones referred to as being guilty of all the blood shed on the earth. Harlot Israel united with Rome, sharing the same judgment and wrath, after 70 ad.
 

tanakh

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2015
3,450
212
63
70
The woman is apostate Jerusalem. Jerusalem is called a harlot in a number of places and her description is a parody of Chief priest The Beast she rides is Rome and its hills represent seven Emperors. Five fallen - Julius,Augustus,Tiberius,Caligula,Claudius. One is - Nero One o come - Galba
 

Troubled65

Senior Member
Feb 22, 2018
102
2
0
The woman is apostate Jerusalem. Jerusalem is called a harlot in a number of places and her description is a parody of Chief priest The Beast she rides is Rome and its hills represent seven Emperors. Five fallen - Julius,Augustus,Tiberius,Caligula,Claudius. One is - Nero One o come - Galba
So Rome had control of Jerusalem during all those emperor's reigns?
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
3,779
78
48
Mark 12:14 They came and said to Him, “Teacher, we know that You are truthful and defer to no one; for You are not partial to any, but teach the way of God in truth. Is it awful to pay a poll-tax to Caesar, or not?

Obviously the Romans were ruling over Jerusalem and taking taxes.
 

Troubled65

Senior Member
Feb 22, 2018
102
2
0
^ They worship other gods beside (or in addition to) Jesus. As wrong as this is, it's also wrong to misrepresent them. Catholics do worship Jesus, they pray to Jesus and they believe in Jesus. The Catholic Church does not deny Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Quite the opposite. While your eyes are fixed on Catholicism the real dragon is creeping in around and behind you unnoticed.
Nearly all Christian denominations have some form of error.
The prophet that speaketh lies, he is the tail. The false prophet is the one who institutes the mark of the beast. I wish I could speak privately with you. Don't want to share this with everyone.
 

abcdef

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
2,527
44
48
The woman is apostate Jerusalem.
Brother tanakh.

I think that the woman is not Jerusalem the city, but is Israel, the broken unbelieving branches that persecuted the 7 congregations after the fall of Jerusalem. This would show the circumstances of the church/kingdom at the time of the writing, after 70 ad presumed.

The woman is Israel in the wilderness, John is taken to the wilderness to see her. The city of Jerusalem is not in the wilderness, therefore the city that the woman sits on must be Rome.

But then the woman is Israel, the unbelieving people, in the wilderness of the gentile nations, united with Rome, persecuting the church/kingdom.

The woman of Rev 12 is also seen in the wilderness. But she is not seen as a harlot. She is seen as faithful with her believing children.

So there are 2 Israels in the wilderness of the gentile nations, one faithful and one a harlot, after 70 ad.


is called a harlot in a number of places and her description is a parody of Chief priest

I'm not so sure about the association of this idea, that it refers to the high priest. Ezek 16:9-13, shows the jewels, etc., set upon Israel, not the high priest.

And, isn't the high priest a man? The people of Israel would fit better?


The Beast she rides is Rome and its hills represent seven Emperors. Five fallen - Julius,Augustus,Tiberius,Caligula,Claudius. One is - Nero One o come - Galba

Following that logic, who would be the 8th, that goeth unto Perdition? He rules during the time of the 10 horns, yet is one of the seven? He rules during the time of the ten toes of the statue in Dan 2 just before the stone strikes, who is he?

(The 7 heads represent the natural lifetime of the Roman Empire beast 476 ad, the 8th head lives on into the period of the divided Roman Empire.)
 

Bladerunner

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2016
3,058
40
48
I don't think it's either.
Then you need to reread the Bible especially the parts pertainign to Jezebel and Revelation

God's Authority (The Bible)is there,,,all you got to do is pluck it.


In one Afternoon, one POPE (killed more Christians than all the Roman Emperors put together.

Only the Vatican has that amount of Blood of the Saints on its head.......as referred to by Jesus.. I suggest you read an excellent book, "The Woman Rides the Beast" by David Hunt..... E-Books on's Amazon has it for next to nothing.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
7,106
315
83
The woman is apostate Jerusalem. Jerusalem is called a harlot in a number of places and her description is a parody of Chief priest The Beast she rides is Rome and its hills represent seven Emperors. Five fallen - Julius,Augustus,Tiberius,Caligula,Claudius. One is - Nero One o come - Galba
Hello Tanahk,

First of all, though the word "harlot" is used regarding Israel, it is not unique, i.e. not specific to Israel/Jerusalem. Regarding the woman, scripture states the following:

"The woman you saw is that great city that rules over the kings of the earth."

At the time was receiving the information from the angel, Rome was that city that ruled over the kings of the earth, which was/is pointing us to Rome's counterfeit religious system within whom can be found the major pagan practices and beliefs of Babylon, which is why the city is called, "Mystery, Babylon the Great." Scripture goes on to say the following:

"The seven heads are seven hills upon which the woman sits."

The previous scripture stated that the woman is that great city who rules over the kings of the earth, which is pointing us to Rome as the woman, that city that sits on seven hills, which is referring to the Vatican, the headquarters of that counterfeit religious system. The scripture also states the following:

"She was dressed in purple and scarlet and glittering with gold and precious Gems."

This is yet another clue in that, purple and scarlet are the exact colors worn by the cardinals and bishops:




The "harlot" is then Rome, with her headquarters being the Vatican, within whom can be found most of the pagan practices and beliefs of ancient Babylon who is masquerading as the church of Christ. However, besides all of this, scripture also proves that Israel cannot be that city that sits on seven hills as being the harlot. For during the last 3 1/2 years, God puts it into the hearts of the beast and the ten kings to hate the prostitute and to destroy her:

"And the ten horns and the beast that you saw will hate the prostitute. They will leave her desolate and naked, and will eat her flesh and burn her with fire. For God has put it into their hearts to carry out His purpose by uniting to give their kingdom to the beast, until the words of God are fulfilled."


The destruction that the woman/city suffers will be permanent, for scripture states that no one will ever dwell in that city again:


" Then a mighty angel picked up a boulder the size of a huge millstone. He threw it into the ocean and shouted, "Just like this, the great city Babylon will be thrown down with violence and will never be found again.

And the sound of harpists and musicians, of flute players and trumpeters, will never ring out in you again. Nor will any craftsmen of any trade be found in you again, nor the sound of a millstone be heard in you again. The light of a lamp will never shine in you again, and the voices of a bride and bridegroom will never call out in you again.

Regarding the above, scripture makes it clear that the beast and the ten kings will destroy the city so that no one will be able to inhabit her ever again. I'm guessing a nuclear strike here, which would match with her being burned with fire. Keeping in mind that her destruction takes place during that last 3 1/2 years of that seven year period, scripture states the following regarding Jerusalem at the end of the thousand years:

"When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves."

The above scripture puts this event at the end of the thousand years, which would demonstrate two things, 1). that the camp of God's people, the city that He loves, is referring to Jerusalem and 2). that Jerusalem will be inhabited throughout the millennial period even till the end.

Conclusion: Since the woman, that city that rules over the kings of the earth, that sits on seven hills, is destroyed during the last half of that seven year period so that no one will ever be able to inhabit her again. And Jerusalem, the camp of God's people, the city that He loves, is shown to be inhabited during the thousand years, even to the very end, then Jerusalem cannot possibly be that city spoken of as the harlot, because she is destroyed and uninhabitable.

 
Last edited:

Bladerunner

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2016
3,058
40
48


Hello Tanahk,

First of all, though the word "harlot" is used regarding Israel, it is not unique, i.e. not specific to Israel/Jerusalem. Regarding the woman, scripture states the following:

"The woman you saw is that great city that rules over the kings of the earth."

At the time was receiving the information from the angel, Rome was that city that ruled over the kings of the earth, which was/is pointing us to Rome's counterfeit religious system within whom can be found the major pagan practices and beliefs of Babylon, which is why the city is called, "Mystery, Babylon the Great." Scripture goes on to say the following:

"The seven heads are seven hills upon which the woman sits."

The previous scripture stated that the woman is that great city who rules over the kings of the earth, which is pointing us to Rome as the woman, that city that sits on seven hills, which is referring to the Vatican, the headquarters of that counterfeit religious system. The scripture also states the following:

"She was dressed in purple and scarlet and glittering with gold and precious Gems."

This is yet another clue in that, purple and scarlet are the exact colors worn by the cardinals and bishops:




The "harlot" is then Rome, with her headquarters being the Vatican, within whom can be found most of the pagan practices and beliefs of ancient Babylon who is masquerading as the church of Christ. However, besides all of this, scripture also proves that Israel cannot be that city that sits on seven hills as being the harlot. For during the last 3 1/2 years, God puts it into the hearts of the beast and the ten kings to hate the prostitute and to destroy her:

"And the ten horns and the beast that you saw will hate the prostitute. They will leave her desolate and naked, and will eat her flesh and burn her with fire. For God has put it into their hearts to carry out His purpose by uniting to give their kingdom to the beast, until the words of God are fulfilled."


The destruction that the woman/city suffers will be permanent, for scripture states that no one will ever dwell in that city again:


" Then a mighty angel picked up a boulder the size of a huge millstone. He threw it into the ocean and shouted, "Just like this, the great city Babylon will be thrown down with violence and will never be found again.

And the sound of harpists and musicians, of flute players and trumpeters, will never ring out in you again. Nor will any craftsmen of any trade be found in you again, nor the sound of a millstone be heard in you again. The light of a lamp will never shine in you again, and the voices of a bride and bridegroom will never call out in you again.

Regarding the above, scripture makes it clear that the beast and the ten kings will destroy the city so that no one will be able to inhabit her ever again. I'm guessing a nuclear strike here, which would match with her being burned with fire. Keeping in mind that her destruction takes place during that last 3 1/2 years of that seven year period, scripture states the following regarding Jerusalem at the end of the thousand years:

"When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves."

The above scripture puts this event at the end of the thousand years, which would demonstrate two things, 1). that the camp of God's people, the city that He loves, is referring to Jerusalem and 2). that Jerusalem will be inhabited throughout the millennial period even till the end.

Conclusion: Since the woman, that city that rules over the kings of the earth, that sits on seven hills, is destroyed during the last half of that seven year period so that no one will ever be able to inhabit her again. And Jerusalem, the camp of God's people, the city that He loves, is shown to be inhabited during the thousand years, even to the very end, then Jerusalem cannot possibly be that city spoken of as the harlot, because she is destroyed and uninhabitable.

"The woman you saw is that great city that rules over the kings of the earth."......Do you have the information that lead you to believe this.....This sentence also fits the RCC. It ruled over Kings for many years....

Either way, we will never get to see actually who it is...

Have a great and Blessed evening..

Blade
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
7,106
315
83
"The woman you saw is that great city that rules over the kings of the earth."......Do you have the information that lead you to believe this.....This sentence also fits the RCC. It ruled over Kings for many years....

Either way, we will never get to see actually who it is...

Have a great and Blessed evening..

Blade
Hello Blade!

The information that I presented above is pointing to the RCC, which was the whole point of the post to Tanahk. The woman is that city Rome/Vatican and her Babylonian pagan religious system, Roman Catholicism. Who else would the Vatican be representing?
 

Bladerunner

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2016
3,058
40
48
Hello Blade!

The information that I presented above is pointing to the RCC, which was the whole point of the post to Tanahk. The woman is that city Rome/Vatican and her Babylonian pagan religious system, Roman Catholicism. Who else would the Vatican be representing?
OOPs....did not read that far the first time/.