Rev 17, Who is the Woman? Jerusalem Vs Rome

[Bladerunner]

We know the beast was the Roman empire, but now we have to see what happened
after the Rome was dealt a deadly wound, and the 10 kingdoms after to fill in history.
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...ho-woman-jerusalem-vs-rome-7.html#post3491104

1 head of gold. Chaldean Empire. (626 BC-539 b.c)
2 breast and arms of silver Medo-Persian Empire (550-330 b.c.)
3 belly and thighs of brass greco-macedonia-Alexander the Great (336-323 b.c.)
4 the two legs of iron roman empire-capitals Rome and Constantinople.(31 b.c.-a.d. 476)

Revelation’s main focus is on the fourth of those four empires—the Roman Empire.
The 10 horns fill the gap in history from 476 to the return of Jesus Christ. Among

After the Roman Empire fell in 476, 10 succeeding governments were to grow out of it.
final one preceding the return of Jesus Christ and the beginning of the Kingdom of God.

Revelation 13, the Bible says this fourth beast was “wounded to death.”
The head that was wounded was that picturing the Roman Empire.

By the end of the fifth century, the Roman Empire appeared dead. It had lost most of its
territories in North Africa, the Middle East and Western Europe. Rome, the capital, had
been sacked by the Goths in a.d. 476. The empire’s economy was in ruin, its leadership
had been gutted, and it was commanded by foreigners. looked as “wounded to death.”

The destruction was inflicted by barbarian tribes from the north and east. Through the course
of the fifth century, Rome had been ruled, in sequence, by three different Germanic tribes.
These tribes didn’t just destroy Rome’s secular leadership; they also overthrew the bishop
of Rome and his religion.

The VANDALS A.D. 429-533
The HERULI,Odoacer’s government,A.D. 476-493
The OSTROGOTHS A.D. 493-554

They where not riden by the church, not of rome but in its territory.
The first three of the 10 horns on the fourth beast were “plucked up by the roots.”

When the Roman Empire was restored by Justinian in 554, the three barbarian kingdoms
that had ruled its territory since a.d. 476 were “uprooted” and never heard from again.

That left seven horns—seven resurrections of this world-ruling empire—to be dominated
by the little horn, the great false church. Thus, the Roman Empire became known as
the Holy Roman Empire. On that famous Christmas in a.d. 800, the pope crowned
Charlemagne “73rd emperor of the fourth world empire.”

The seven-headed beast in Revelation 17 specifically addresses the seven resurrections.
Since 554, there have been six resurrections of the Holy Roman Empire, leaving one more
to occur before the return of Jesus Christ.

(4th horn) a “little horn”—a great false church [or called a Woman in places],
coming on the scene after three horns are plucked up.
It took the image of the beast [ or government head and religion structure].
The great church guided every succeeding resurrection of this Roman Empire.
The last seven horns comprise [a church-state relationship],

When Justinian recognized the supremacy of the pope in 554, the Roman Empire was
revived. And because of its close association with the great false church, this empire
eventually assumed the name Holy Roman Empire. The joint quest to purge the land
of heretics and pagans helped to formalize the church-state partnership.

“The process of integration of church and state, begun by Constantine, continued
until the two became inseparable,” wrote Paul Johnson in A History of Christianity.
Emperor Justinian also restored the leadership of the Roman Catholic Church,
including the supreme authority of the pope.

The pope proclaimed the emperor as the one, true ruler of the Roman Empire, and
in turn the emperor defended the Roman Catholic religion from all outside threats.
Justinian’s laws enforced the spread of Catholicism within his realm, and “For the first time
in Roman history, the conversion of pagan kings became enshrined as a priority of state”

Emperor Justinian made this Imperial Restoration official in a.d. 554 with an edict known
as the Pragmatic Sanction. This edict restored all the lands the Ostrogoths had taken from
the Roman Catholic Church back to Vatican control.

It also returned to the pope and his Vatican hierarchy all the rights, powers and privileges
that they enjoyed before the barbarian invasions of Rome. Both halves of the empire were
now united. For the first time in history, the Roman Catholic Church was ruling over the state,
instead of the state controlling the church.

The deadly wound inflicted by the Goths was healed and the first resurrection of
the “Holy” Roman Empire had begun.

If the Beast was the Roman Empire then who are the Ten Kingdoms......We should know who they are by know surely?????????????

 

[iamsoandso]

What do you mean New Jerusalem (setup in 1948)....?????????????????????/

From 1517 until 1917, the Ottoman (Turks) Empire had control of the territory of Israel, Syria, Iraq, parts of Persia, and Turkey. During WWI, the Ottoman (Turks) Empire had taken the WRONG side and lost their empire including soon to be Israel including Jerusalem in 1917. (as Rabbi Ben Samuel had prophesied in 1217)

From the time from 1917 to 1948, The land (Israel pre-1967 borders) were given back to the Jewish people. However, Jerusalem was considered a No-Mans Land (as Rabbi Ben Samuel had prophesied in 1217) for another 50 years (0ne Jubilee). Jerusalem was occupied by Muslims (not Ruled) until 1967 when Israeli (IDF) forces won it back.

Now having said all of the above just to prove there was still a Jerusalem in 1917, 1948 and 1967, what are you trying say??????

lol, I'm not trying to say anything I was asking N6 in post#164 what he thought the kingdom set up in 1948 is I,e.< is it the new Jerusalem descending down from heaven or something else (I agree with him in that it is not the new Jerusalem)...

 

[Bladerunner]

You keep saying "in heaven" In Revelation 1:9 John says "Patmos" and that he head a voice behind him, Revelation 1:10 where are you seeing that he was in heaven?

Rev 1:9....John tells us....."I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ." John's Body is still on Patmos during this separation from his spirit.

Rev 1:10....The John tells us he is in......"I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet," (KJV)

and in Rev 1:12-13,,, John saw Jesus in the Midst of the Golden Candlesticks....(Lampstands) Already in Heaven... John describes Jesus and it is not an illusion as he tells us who he sees and Hears,,, The Alpha and Omega

 

[iamsoandso]

Rev 1:9....John tells us....."I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ." John's Body is still on Patmos during this separation from his spirit.

Rev 1:10....The John tells us he is in......"I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet," (KJV)

and in Rev 1:12-13,,, John saw Jesus in the Midst of the Golden Candlesticks....(Lampstands) Already in Heaven... John describes Jesus and it is not an illusion as he tells us who he sees and Hears,,, The Alpha and Omega

In the things he says to the 7 Churches they are on earth(Asia) not in heaven...

 

[Bladerunner]

In the things he says to the 7 Churches they are on earth(Asia) not in heaven...

Separate the three....... He Hast Seen,,,,,things that ARE and Things that will be.

The letters were to the present day(present day to John on Patmos) churches and they were written to each by Jesus.....The seven Golden Candlesticks were in Heaven with the Alpha and Omega,,,(Things he Hast seen---as you said--what he saw was past tense but it is also a future tense since we know at John's time period, the Church's were still on earth yet (past), we see them in heaven (future). So we have in one sentence a past,future tense so to speak.

 

[prove-all]

If the Beast was the Roman Empire then who are the Ten Kingdoms......

If you are referring to [the 10 kingdoms to arise out of Rome], that was explained already.
If you mean the last kingdom, with [the 10 toes] that Christ smashes, when do they [combine] ?

That has not happened yet, but be sure Germany will be the Head,
might even be 5 from the east and 5 from the west.

But Nine other kings will give there power to a strong German leader[king of north]
The bible says they come together in the very end, and only for a little while.

German is currently leader in Europe, and even building its army with other country's.
Current Europe is just like the bible says iron and clay hard to mix, but they will.
Thanks to Brit-ex, the Russan threat, and the U.S. retreat, they will unite and be a real world power.

 

[Nehemiah6]

lol, well I'm relieved to see that we agree that it is not the new Jerusalem being set up on earth(I don't think so either). You did not say though what you think the state of Israel that was set up in 1948 is though(what do you see it as if anything)?

The establishment of the SECULAR state of Israel in 1948 was the beginning of the fulfillment of prophecies concerning Jerusalem, Judah, and the Jews. However since the majority of those Jews do not accept Jesus the Messiah, they will face the time of Jacob's trouble, and many will be destroyed. At the same time there is a growing number of Messianic Jews in Israel (and worldwide) who have wholeheartedly accepted Yeshua ha Mashiach as their Savior. They are a part of the Church, but like to build barriers between themselves and the rest of the Church (which is primarily Gentile) in order to maintain their Jewishness. They even wish to revive Moses which is another issue.

However, after the second coming of Christ, all the Jews worldwide will be gathered to Israel and a believing remnant will be redeemed and restored and established in GREATER ISRAEL. Jerusalem on earth has a major role to play in the future, not only at the second coming, but during the Millennium, and then beyond that when the New Heavens and the New Earth are established. At that time the REDEEMED and restored kingdom of Israel will be set up under Christ for eternity.

However, the New Jerusalem has always been -- and will always be -- a heavenly city for the Church (redeemed Jews and Gentles in one Body until the Resurrection/Rapture, when "the fulness of the Gentiles be come in").

Now if you are not prepared to accept Bible prophecy in its plain literal sense and wish to delve into preteristic nonsense, then you will not believe any of this. But if you want to take Scripture seriously, then the best thing to do is dump Preterism in the garbage can, and start afresh with the Bible as it was meant to be understood.

 

[iamsoandso]

The establishment of the SECULAR state of Israel in 1948 was the beginning of the fulfillment of prophecies concerning Jerusalem, Judah, and the Jews. However since the majority of those Jews do not accept Jesus the Messiah, they will face the time of Jacob's trouble, and many will be destroyed. At the same time there is a growing number of Messianic Jews in Israel (and worldwide) who have wholeheartedly accepted Yeshua ha Mashiach as their Savior. They are a part of the Church, but like to build barriers between themselves and the rest of the Church (which is primarily Gentile) in order to maintain their Jewishness. They even wish to revive Moses which is another issue.

However, after the second coming of Christ, all the Jews worldwide will be gathered to Israel and a believing remnant will be redeemed and restored and established in GREATER ISRAEL. Jerusalem on earth has a major role to play in the future, not only at the second coming, but during the Millennium, and then beyond that when the New Heavens and the New Earth are established. At that time the REDEEMED and restored kingdom of Israel will be set up under Christ for eternity.

However, the New Jerusalem has always been -- and will always be -- a heavenly city for the Church (redeemed Jews and Gentles in one Body until the Resurrection/Rapture, when "the fulness of the Gentiles be come in").

Now if you are not prepared to accept Bible prophecy in its plain literal sense and wish to delve into preteristic nonsense, then you will not believe any of this. But if you want to take Scripture seriously, then the best thing to do is dump Preterism in the garbage can, and start afresh with the Bible as it was meant to be understood.

lol, I can assure you my friend that the preterist camp will not say that I am of them. But then as it seems the same is said of the disp./futurist camp. In fact if you review the answers I gave to BR of mine own name Naarden, you could ponder that if I am Jewish by blood and I said to him that I believed that Jesus is my Lord.and my forefathers then even the Jews who are of the Jewish faith will henceforth turn and spit when they hear my name. The just of it is that being outside the camps at first was quite lonely but is a very warm place now.

I would like to ask you something first that I see as a type of turning point in seeing the things you spoke of and then I would like to look very close at what you see(things you said) in this post if you will suffer it my friend.

What I am curious of is how you see John 5:43,,,is this something that the Jews will one day do in that Jesus said that they would receive one who would come in his own name?

 

[Nehemiah6]

What I am curious of is how you see John 5:43,,,is this something that the Jews will one day do in that Jesus said that they would receive one who would come in his own name?

John 5:43 was indeed a prophetic statement by Christ about the Antichrist: I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

Christ came in His Father's name and under submission to God the Father. Yet He was rejected by the Jews of His day (with some exceptions). But today one of the fundamental tenets of Orthodox Jews is that Messiah will come. So when the Antichrist comes, he will claim to be Elohim and Mashiach (God and Christ) and will be gladly received by the Orthodox Jews, as well as the whole world. The apostle Paul has told us exactly how he will come and present himself:

Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.(2 thess 2:4)

 

[iamsoandso]

John 5:43 was indeed a prophetic statement by Christ about the Antichrist: I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

Christ came in His Father's name and under submission to God the Father. Yet He was rejected by the Jews of His day (with some exceptions). But today one of the fundamental tenets of Orthodox Jews is that Messiah will come. So when the Antichrist comes, he will claim to be Elohim and Mashiach (God and Christ) and will be gladly received by the Orthodox Jews, as well as the whole world. The apostle Paul has told us exactly how he will come and present himself:

Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.(2 thess 2:4)

Then in other words he will come and he will come in a kingdom that is seen as Israel, the kingdom of God. When he does come they will receive him and why is because he rose in the correct place(Israel not Cuba) and they will receive him because they believe he is the Messiah and why Jesus points out in John 5:43(they don't believe he is),so when the other comes they will think that he is the Messiah.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Then in other words he will come and he will come in a kingdom that is seen as Israel, the kingdom of God. When he does come they will receive him and why is because he rose in the correct place(Israel not Cuba) and they will receive him because they believe he is the Messiah and why Jesus points out in John 5:43(they don't believe he is),so when the other comes they will think that he is the Messiah.

Exactly. He must be accepted wholeheartedly as the expected Jewish Messiah before he is accepted by the world as a god.

Eminent Jewish theologian Maimonides formulated the 13 principles of faith, mandatory for all Jews to affirm. These principles form the pinnacles of Orthodox Judaism. The principles about God are accepting his existence, his unity, his incorporeality, his eternity and affirming that only he alone has the right to be worshiped. The prophetic principles are to believe in all the prophets and Mosaic superiority. Affirming the divinity of the Torah and accepting its unchanging nature are the scriptural principles. The tenth principle is believing that God knows the deeds of men. The eschatological principles are believing in reward and punishment in the afterlife, the coming of the Messiah and the resurrection of the dead. These principles set a criterion for what is accepted as orthodox in Judaism and what is to be deemed heretical. These principles are sometimes referred to as Judaism's ″Articles of Faith″. These principles were centralized in Judaism by 1300 when they were incorporated into daily Jewish liturgy.

 

[abcdef]

If you are referring to [the 10 kingdoms to arise out of Rome], that was explained already.
If you mean the last kingdom, with [the 10 toes] that Christ smashes, when do they [combine] ?

That has not happened yet, but be sure Germany will be the Head,
might even be 5 from the east and 5 from the west.

But Nine other kings will give there power to a strong German leader[king of north]
The bible says they come together in the very end, and only for a little while.

German is currently leader in Europe, and even building its army with other country's.
Current Europe is just like the bible says iron and clay hard to mix, but they will.
Thanks to Brit-ex, the Russan threat, and the U.S. retreat, they will unite and be a real world power.

Brother prove-all,

I read your posts but could not reply on them for some reason, what ever. I thought they were great!

I have always thought that the 10 nations were not consecutive, but were all formed in a short time period, together in 476 ad when the Roman Empire fell. This would be shown in the toes of the Dan. 2 statue.

The number 10 of the toes would not be literal as history shows that when Rome fell, it broke into far more than 10 kingdoms. Even until these present days, the former Roman Empire/Caesar worship is among many nations, but in those nations, mixed with clay.

The Roman iron kingdom and the clay are still here today, but they do not have power over Israel any more since Jerusalem is restored. The statue shows the power of the gentile nations over Israel, not the planet.

Neither the toes or the horns show a return to power over Israel. Instead they show power over the people of Israel diminishing and ending.

The idea that the Antichrist and beast nation, the Roman iron dragon 4th beast nation, has not been revealed yet is a deception.

The Antichrist returned to sit on the seat of the beast in 1929. The deception that he is not revealed yet HIDES HIM! Everybody says, "Where is he? where is he?" And pretrib says, "Oh don't worry about the Antichrist, because he won't be revealed until after the rapt/resur when we are gone."

You can't say that the RCC is the woman, and then say that the Antichrist hasn't been revealed yet, because the "head" of the woman is the Antichrist.

----

Brother prove-all,

May I offer this, The kingdom was established on Pentecost shortly after the iron starts on the statue.

When the stone strikes, that is Jesus coming to take possession of the kingdom at the rapt/resur of the 7th trumpet, which is the 2nd coming of salvation.

After that it is the wheat/chaff judgment where death is destroyed and the new eternal earth.

 

[Waggles]

If the Beast was the Roman Empire then who are the Ten Kingdoms......We should know who they are by know surely?????????????

The 10 kings have much to do with the 10 lost tribes of the northern kingdom
that split away from Judah.
Remember the Assyrians took away and relocated the northern nation of Israel
- Ephraim
These 10 tribes ended up in Europe.

 

[iamsoandso]

Exactly. He must be accepted wholeheartedly as the expected Jewish Messiah before he is accepted by the world as a god.

Then I ask you again of the kingdom established in 1948 is it the one that is carnal where the Jews receive the one who comes in his own name or is it God establishing the restored kingdom to Israel? One thing must be prior to this in the order of events. Is it the kingdom established where they receive the one who comes in his own name? Is it the head that received the wound that the earth said let us make an image of the beast that was and was not yet is and set it back up in 1948 and now he will come?

 

[prove-all]

Despite numerous warnings ,the people of Israel refused to turn from their
rebellion against God. It was God who sent the Assyrians as the rod of His
anger to take the Israelites into captivity (Isaiah 10:5).

They were removed out of their land. “For the children of Israel walked in all
the sins of Jeroboam which he did; they departed not from them; Until the Lord
removed Israel out of his sight, as he had said by all his servants the prophets.

So was Israel carried away out of their own land to Assyria unto this day”
(2 Kings 17:22-23).

Josephus recorded that Shalmaneser “made an expedition against Samaria ..
besieged [it] three years and took it by force … and quite demolished the
government of the Israelites, and transplanted all the people into Media and Persia”
(Antiquities, ix, xiv, 1).

“In the years 721-718 b.c., the house of Israel was conquered and its people
were soon driven out of their own land—out of their homes and cities—
and carried captives to Assyria, on the southern shores of the Caspian Sea!

And then … lost from view!” become known as the “lost 10 tribes” of Israel.
Because scholars and historians also lost sight of the Assyrians!

And during captivity, Israel went into Assyria, located anciently at
the southern shores of the Black and Caspian seas.

the Assyrians, when they migrated northwest into Central Europe seperated,
the Assyrians mainly settled into Central Europe, where Germany and Austria
are located today. the Israelites did not remain as slaves of the Assyrians.

the children of Israel scattered into Western Europe,
the Scandinavian peninsula, and the British Isles.
-

Before their migration, Periplus, who lived around 550 b.c., wrote,
“The coast of the Black Sea … is called Assyria” (Perrot and Chipiez,
History of Art in Sardinia, Judaea, Syria and Asia Minor, Volume 2).

-
C. Leonard Woolley described what these people looked like in his book,
The Sumerians: “In the Zagros hills and across the plain to the Tigris,

there lived a … fair-haired … people akin to the Guti (Goths) who … remained
in what was afterwards Assyria.” This description certainly matches those who
descended from the line of Shem.

Dr. Herman Hoeh wrote: “When the ancient Greek writers wanted to distinguish
the Assyrians from the Arameans or Syrians, the Greeks called the Assyrians
‘Leucosyri’—meaning ‘whites’ or ‘blonds,’ as distinct from the very brunette
Syrians who still live in Mesopotamia”

By the time of Christ, the Roman naturalist Pliny the Elder recorded that the
Assyrians were now dwelling north of the Black Sea (Natural History, iv, 12).
By this time, they had moved north.

Before their migration, Periplus, who lived around 550 b.c., wrote, “The coast of
the Black Sea … is called Assyria” (Perrot and Chipiez, History of Art in Sardinia,
Judaea, Syria and Asia Minor, Volume 2). C. Leonard Woolley described what these
people looked like in his book, The Sumerians:


“In the Zagros hills and across the plain to the Tigris, there lived a … fair-haired …
people akin to the Guti (Goths) who … remained in what was afterwards Assyria.”
This description certainly matches those who descended from the line of Shem.

Dr. Herman Hoeh wrote: “When the ancient Greek writers wanted to distinguish the
Assyrians from the Arameans or Syrians, the Greeks called the Assyrians ‘Leucosyri’
—meaning ‘whites’ or ‘blonds,’ as distinct from the very brunette Syrians
who still live in Mesopotamia”

By the time of Christ, the Roman naturalist Pliny the Elder recorded that the Assyrians
were now dwelling north of the Black Sea. By this time, they had moved north.
(Natural History, iv, 12)

“The Assyrians—before 604 b.c.—left their land north of Babylon and migrated northwest,
through the lands that are now Georgia, the Ukraine, Poland, and into the land that is called
Germany. Today the descendants of those Assyrians are known to us as the German people.”

-
Ancient City of Trier: the German city of Trier traces its origins back to Trebeta,
the son of Nimrod’s successor, Ninus, as well as the ancient Assyrian capital of Nineveh.

 

[Katy-follower]

Maybe we're getting into conspiracy theories now..... but a while back I read there was a vacant seat "666" in the EU parliament? Or are they just being superstitious and no-one wants it, perhaps?

 

[iamsoandso]

Despite numerous warnings ,the people of Israel refused to turn from their
rebellion against God. It was God who sent the Assyrians as the rod of His
anger to take the Israelites into captivity (Isaiah 10:5).

They were removed out of their land. “For the children of Israel walked in all
the sins of Jeroboam which he did; they departed not from them; Until the Lord
removed Israel out of his sight, as he had said by all his servants the prophets.

So was Israel carried away out of their own land to Assyria unto this day”
(2 Kings 17:22-23).

Josephus recorded that Shalmaneser “made an expedition against Samaria ..
besieged [it] three years and took it by force … and quite demolished the
government of the Israelites, and transplanted all the people into Media and Persia”
(Antiquities, ix, xiv, 1).

“In the years 721-718 b.c., the house of Israel was conquered and its people
were soon driven out of their own land—out of their homes and cities—
and carried captives to Assyria, on the southern shores of the Caspian Sea!

And then … lost from view!” become known as the “lost 10 tribes” of Israel.
Because scholars and historians also lost sight of the Assyrians!

And during captivity, Israel went into Assyria, located anciently at
the southern shores of the Black and Caspian seas.

the Assyrians, when they migrated northwest into Central Europe seperated,
the Assyrians mainly settled into Central Europe, where Germany and Austria
are located today. the Israelites did not remain as slaves of the Assyrians.

the children of Israel scattered into Western Europe,
the Scandinavian peninsula, and the British Isles.
-

Before their migration, Periplus, who lived around 550 b.c., wrote,
“The coast of the Black Sea … is called Assyria” (Perrot and Chipiez,
History of Art in Sardinia, Judaea, Syria and Asia Minor, Volume 2).

-
C. Leonard Woolley described what these people looked like in his book,
The Sumerians: “In the Zagros hills and across the plain to the Tigris,

there lived a … fair-haired … people akin to the Guti (Goths) who … remained
in what was afterwards Assyria.” This description certainly matches those who
descended from the line of Shem.

Dr. Herman Hoeh wrote: “When the ancient Greek writers wanted to distinguish
the Assyrians from the Arameans or Syrians, the Greeks called the Assyrians
‘Leucosyri’—meaning ‘whites’ or ‘blonds,’ as distinct from the very brunette
Syrians who still live in Mesopotamia”

By the time of Christ, the Roman naturalist Pliny the Elder recorded that the
Assyrians were now dwelling north of the Black Sea (Natural History, iv, 12).
By this time, they had moved north.

Before their migration, Periplus, who lived around 550 b.c., wrote, “The coast of
the Black Sea … is called Assyria” (Perrot and Chipiez, History of Art in Sardinia,
Judaea, Syria and Asia Minor, Volume 2). C. Leonard Woolley described what these
people looked like in his book, The Sumerians:


“In the Zagros hills and across the plain to the Tigris, there lived a … fair-haired …
people akin to the Guti (Goths) who … remained in what was afterwards Assyria.”
This description certainly matches those who descended from the line of Shem.

Dr. Herman Hoeh wrote: “When the ancient Greek writers wanted to distinguish the
Assyrians from the Arameans or Syrians, the Greeks called the Assyrians ‘Leucosyri’
—meaning ‘whites’ or ‘blonds,’ as distinct from the very brunette Syrians
who still live in Mesopotamia”

By the time of Christ, the Roman naturalist Pliny the Elder recorded that the Assyrians
were now dwelling north of the Black Sea. By this time, they had moved north.
(Natural History, iv, 12)

“The Assyrians—before 604 b.c.—left their land north of Babylon and migrated northwest,
through the lands that are now Georgia, the Ukraine, Poland, and into the land that is called
Germany. Today the descendants of those Assyrians are known to us as the German people.”

-
Ancient City of Trier: the German city of Trier traces its origins back to Trebeta,
the son of Nimrod’s successor, Ninus, as well as the ancient Assyrian capital of Nineveh.

http://sacred-texts.com/jud/josephus/ant-11.htm they were not lost from view see chapter5.2,,,,

 

[MarcR]

I agree with you partially about the writing of the NT. all of them except Revelation which was written around 94-95....We know this as we can place John of Patmos there through Historical records. I suspect the reasons why 70 AD was not brought up in the Book itself was 2 fold. First, It was thirty years after the fall of Jerusalem and the Temple. The second point is; The words of all text are God's words and if He did not want it in there, it would not be...All we get from the authors of the books is a different style of writing which is used to some extent to confirm the Author...(i.e Paul and Hebrews).

Revelation, unlike any of the the others is also most all prophetic. It contained Prophecies that "THINGS WHICH THOU HAST SEEN", Prophecies "THE THINGS WHICH ARE" and Prophecies of "THE THINGS WHICH SHALL BE HER THEREAFTER".

sorry MarcR, not shouting at you , just a form of Highlighting those items as amillennialist don't even consider them.

The "Things which thou hast seen" are from that period of time, 94-95' AD which explains why the letters to the churches of that time period are so accurate.

Had the NT been written within the 70-80' AD, I feel that the fall of Jerusalem would have been included since every Jew and believing Gentiles suffered through this time. This is not to say that many Christians were killed in 70 AD...They were not because they took the Prophecy of Jesus in Matt, Mark and Luke to heart and fled when the city was surrounded but still at a pause while politics took the spotlight.

However, even as "Smyrna" was the persecuted church depicted in the Seven Letters, the 90's and beyond brought about Christian persecution to a new level not seen in earlier times.

Good to talk to you again my friend and Brother in Christ.

Blade

I believe a good historical case can be made for an early dating; however it is certainly not the most important thing to agree on. We certainly believe alike on essential doctrine.

 

[Katy-follower]

Revelation chapter 18 - judgment

2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen,
and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every
unclean and hateful bird.
5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities.
6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works:
in the cup which she has filled fill to her double.
7 How much she has glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow
give her: for she said in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.
8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine;
and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judges her.
10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon,
that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.
11 And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buys their
merchandise any more:
20 Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets;
for God hath avenged you on her.
21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying,
Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down,
and shall be found no more at all.
Revelation 18:

Clearly Rome and her destruction most likely by nuclear bomb.
Russia versus NATO ??
verse 21 and shall be found no more at all - is not Jerusalem as Jerusalem will always be
given that she is Mount Zion
The irony here is that the RCC has again through blasphemy usurped the title of
Jerusalem and applied it to Rome the Eternal City. Yet God shall destroy Rome
for evermore just like the original Babylon.

Communism/fascism would definitely put an end to Rome!

 

[abcdef]

Despite numerous warnings ,the people of Israel refused to turn from their
rebellion against God. It was God who sent the Assyrians as the rod of His
anger to take the Israelites into captivity (Isaiah 10:5).

Brother, Who is a descendant of Jacob/Israel today? Is there any way to tell? The flesh seed of Israel is spread out over the planet, how can any one say for sure who is a descendant of Jacob after the flesh and who is not?

We can only say that the souls in Israel today are there from a belief, a faith, in the God of Sinai. Isn't that the same God that we worship? Jesus in His glory that no man can see His face and live?

Do you think, that there would be an Israel today without that belief, that faith, in Jehovah? A faith in the resurrection and God's love and grace? Belief in the promises that were made 3000+ years ago?

Surly this is more than just a belief, this is a living faith that is alive and moving, creating, fulfilling.

It has been said that "not all are Israel who are called Israel," but faith in God is the difference. So if these souls who are in Jerusalem now, are called by the faith of Jacob and the fathers, then maybe it is not necessarily about the flesh, or the percentage of the flesh of Jacob, but more about those who are called after the faith of the fathers, which the scriptures speak of Jesus.

And even if we say today, they do not have the veil removed, we must not judge that the veil will not be removed from their children.

I believe that God's plan is still unfolding, we are not quite at the end. But when the end comes, it will come quickly.

When Jerusalem falls to Iran at the 7th trumpet.