Rev 6:1&2 The white horseman,

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Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
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#21
Zechariah 6:1-8, "6:1, "And I lifted up my eyes again, and looked and saw four chariots coming from between two mountains, and the mountains were mountains of bronze."6:2, "With the first chariot were red horses, and with the second chariot black horses,"6:3, "and with the third chariot white horses, and with the fourth chariot strong speckled horses."6:4, "So I responded and said to the messenger who was speaking to me, “What are these, my master?”"6:5, "And the messenger answered and said to me, “These are four spirits of the heavens, coming forth from presenting themselves before the Master of all the earth."6:6, "“The one with the black horses is going out to the land of the north, and the white ones have gone out after them, and the speckled ones have gone out to the land of the south.”"6:7, "And the strong ones went out, eager to go, to walk to and fro in the earth. And He said, “Go, walk to and fro in the earth.” So they walked to and fro in the earth."6:8, "And He called to me, and spoke to me, saying, “See, those who go toward the land of the north have quieted My Spirit in the land of the north.”
 

abcdef

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
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#25
So based on your reply and trusting in the scriptures, when you read Isaiah chapter 3 do you see physical things like children, women, clothing, foul smell, jewelry, baldness/nakedness? or do you see spiritual things like
teachers that are not skilled in God's word or 7 churches with all kinds of problems or no covering for sin or prayers that stink in the Lords nostrils or a bunch of garb and prompt and circumstance. (religion)?
????????????
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
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#27
So based on your reply and trusting in the scriptures, when you read Isaiah chapter 3 do you see physical things like children, women, clothing, foul smell, jewelry, baldness/nakedness? or do you see spiritual things like
teachers that are not skilled in God's word or 7 churches with all kinds of problems or no covering for sin or prayers that stink in the Lords nostrils or a bunch of garb and prompt and circumstance. (religion)?
I dont think you took it that way but I don;t claim to know everything, I diligently study and pray and thank Yah for what hHe has shown me. I just want to be clear Im not some know it all.

What I see is the sin of Israel was not only rampant but they didnt even "blush" they chose their way without repentance, thus YHWH allowed their own actions to be measured back to them... this was fulfilled in the invasion of Israyl, in this instance particularly Babylon, because Isaiah's time was pre Babylonian captivity. All these things and more came upon rebellious Israel...

Isaiah 3:
15 “What do you mean by crushing My people and grinding the faces of the poor?” declares the Master, יהוה of hosts."
16 And יהוה says, “Because the daughters of Tsiyon are haughty, and walk with outstretched necks and seductive eyes, walking and mincing as they go, making a jingling with their feet,"
17 therefore יהוה shall smite with a scab the crown of the head of the daughters of Tsiyon, and יהוה expose their nakedness.”"
24 And it shall be: Instead of a sweet fragrance, a smell of decay; and instead of a belt, a rope; and instead of well-set hair, baldness; and instead of a festal robe, a girding of sackcloth; and branding instead of loveliness."
 

abcdef

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
2,809
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#28
sorry, I'm new and don't no how to navigate the site yet
Welcome. Everybody was new here once. Take your time. Think and learn. Don't let the trolls get to you.

Eat the meat and spit out the bones.
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
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#29
Isaiah 6:9 tells us straight up that things aren't as they appear
Isaiah 6:8-13,8 And I heard the voice of יהוה, saying, “Whom do I send, and who would go for Us?” And I said, “Here am I! Send me.”"9 And He said, “Go, and you shall say to this people, ‘Hearing, you hear, but do not understand; and seeing, you see, but do not know.’"10 “Make the heart of this people fat, and their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and shall turn and be healed.”"11 Then I said, “יהוה, until when?” And He answered, “Until the cities are laid waste and without inhabitant, and the houses are without a man, and the land is laid waste, a ruin,"12 and יהוה has removed men far away, and the forsaken places be many in the midst of the land."13 “But still, there is a tenth part in it, and it shall again be for a burning, like a terebinth tree and like an oak, whose stump remains when it is cut down. The set-apart seed is its stump!”"
 
Aug 26, 2018
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#30
Notice that the horseman has a bow but it doesn't mention arrows.

Then see Ezek 5:16-17, 17. See that it is similar to the 4 horsemen. In Ezekiel the arrows are evil arrows of famine. Not literal arrows and not literal famine necessarily, but famine of God's Word and blessings.

The Ezek passage in context is about the time period of the 70 ad destruction of Jerusalem.

-----
different kind of bow,
http://www.thekingsbible.com/BibleStrongsNumber.aspx?stgno=G5115
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
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#31
Does anyone know why the church has been telling me for years that the white horseman is the anti-Christ?
It just doesn't look like it to me!
I believe white horseman is the antichrist
Is not real Christ, because after the real Christ come, No more tribulation. Revelation 6

6 And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.

2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

3 And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see.

4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.

Revelation 6 tell, that after white horseman there Will be Red horse and Will be No peace.

When The real Jesus come, Will followed by peace.

The antichrist or fake Christ not from islam,

If you make fake money, you have to make It look like real money, look like Christ oN earth. Or vicar of Christ.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#34
Wow, impressive response!
can you think of any other place in the bible where an evil person or Satan or any individual other than the Lord is announced with thunder? and did you look back to the original word for bow in the Greek? its only used once in the bible.
John hears the sound of thunder because of the hooves of the four horses...the white horse cannot be JESUS because of what he carries and what he does not carry......and the following horses do not fit coming after Christ comes on his white horse......many ascribe the white horse to the Anti-Christ or possibly the conquering of western civilization as both Alexander and Roman Caesars rode white horses...........we know the little horn will honor the god of forces and yet comes in peaceably "Daniel" and we also know that when they say peace and safety sudden destruction....the context of this is tied to the Parousia of Christ and our gathering....there are many things to ponder, consider and put together to comes to a solid factual conclusion......!
 

Bladerunner

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2016
3,076
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#35
John hears the sound of thunder because of the hooves of the four horses...the white horse cannot be JESUS because of what he carries and what he does not carry......and the following horses do not fit coming after Christ comes on his white horse......many ascribe the white horse to the Anti-Christ or possibly the conquering of western civilization as both Alexander and Roman Caesars rode white horses...........we know the little horn will honor the god of forces and yet comes in peaceably "Daniel" and we also know that when they say peace and safety sudden destruction....the context of this is tied to the Parousia of Christ and our gathering....there are many things to ponder, consider and put together to comes to a solid factual conclusion......!

Agree, It cannot be Jesus Christ, simply because HE is the one opening the Scroll that His father handed to HIM.

Blade
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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#36
Most people interpret the first five seals as being opened in the future after the rise of the Antichrist. But a comparison of the Olivet Discourse (Matthew 24) with the first five seals shows that they represent all the events until the Tribulation and the Great Tribulation, and have been in evidence since the first century.

So what does this white horseman represent? Here's the answer:
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many... (false Messiahs)

11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

From the time of Christ there have been many false Messiahs and false prophets, including the following (from Wikipedia):

  • Simon bar Kokhba (died c. 135), founded a short-lived Jewish state before being defeated in theSecond Jewish-Roman War.
  • Moses of Crete, who in about 440–470 persuaded the Jews of Crete to walk into the sea, as Moses had done, to return to Israel. The results were disastrous and he soon disappeared.
  • Ishak ben Ya'kub Obadiah Abu 'Isa al-Isfahani (684–705), who led a revolt in Persia against the Umayyad Caliph 'Abd al-Malik ibn Marwan.
  • David Alroy, born in Kurdistan, who around 1160 agitated against the caliph before being assassinated.
  • Moses Botarel of Cisneros, active around 1413; claimed to be a sorcerer able to combine the names of God.
  • Asher Lämmlein, a German near Venice who proclaimed himself a forerunner of the Messiah in 1502.
  • David Reubeni (1490–1541?) and Solomon Molcho (1500–1532), messianic adventurers who travelled in Portugal, Italy and Turkey; Molcho, who was a baptised Catholic, was tried by the Inquisition, convicted of apostasy and burned at the stake.
  • Sabbatai Zevi (1626–1676), an Ottoman Jew who claimed to be the Messiah, but then converted to Islam; still has followers today in the Dönmeh.
  • Jacob Querido (?–1690), claimed to be the new incarnation of Sabbatai; later converted to Islam and led the Dönmeh.
  • Miguel Cardoso (1630–1706), another successor of Sabbatai who claimed to be the "Messiah ben Ephraim".
  • Löbele Prossnitz (?–1750), attained some following amongst former followers of Sabbatai, calling himself the "Messiah ben Joseph".
  • Jacob Joseph Frank (1726–1791), who claimed to be the reincarnation of King David and preached a synthesis of Christianity and Judaism.
  • Menachem Mendel Schneerson (1902–1994), whose followers claim that he is the Jewish messiah.
There are many more false Christs and false prophets. They are all represented by this rider on a white horse.
We would then disagree on this, as I believe that the 1st seal rider white horse is symbolic representing the antichrist. He is a counterfeit of the rider on the white horse in Rev.19:11-21.

Also, the question by the disciples was "when will all this take place and what will be the sign of your coming and the end of the age. Regarding these things, Jesus said they would take place during that generation that would be existing when all of these signs begin to take place, i.e. that they would be restricted to that last generation.

If we were to assign the event of the 1st seal in this manner, then we could do it with the 2nd seal red horse who takes peace from the earth so that men kill one another. We could assign this to any wars that have taken place and specifically, the past world wars. And we could also do the same thing with 3rd seal black horse of famine. This then begins to take us down the historicist interpretation.

Regarding these events, Jesus said that "it would be a time of great tribulation such as the world has not seen, from the beginning, until now and never to be equaled again," which tells me that these will be unprecedented events, not like those of the past. Claiming that the white horse as false Christ and false prophets representing the last 2000 years, would then put the church as being in the wrath of God, for Jesus is the One opening the seals and is therefore is responsible for their results. The mention of death and Hades being given power to kill a fourth of the earth would be in a short period of time, not over 2000 years.

I believe that the church must be gathered prior to that first seal white horse being opened, which specifically represents the revealing of the antichrist and initiates God's wrath during that last seven years.
 
Aug 26, 2018
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#37
Yes I know "everyone agrees this is not Christ.
However, in my frustration of not making sense out of revelation (the way it is being taught) I decided to start fresh with no preconceived ideas and put everything on the table and do the research.
I took every action word in chapter six and did word searches, found every place it was used in the bible and considered what God thought the word meant and how he used it in a sentence.
As I began to do this I started to see a completely different picture emerge.
The seals are promises, that's what the word seal means.
The seventh seal is God Promise of future judgment.
The sixth seal is a reminder of a promise he made the last time he destroyed the earth.
the fifth seal is God's promise to avenge the blood of the saints.
The second seal is God's promise that sin would bring judgment and death.
The third seal is God's promise of Judgement, the black horseman is God the father. (Hosea 12:7)
The forth seal is identified, death and hell follows behind.
The first seal is the promise of the Messiah, made all the way back in the garden!

So there you go, have a good laugh and then go back and take another look.
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
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#38
The third seal is God's promise of Judgement, the black horseman is God the father. (Hosea 12:7)

So there you go, have a good laugh and then go back and take another look.
yeah LOL

7 A merchant! In his hand are scales of deceit, he loved to oppress."

no the black horseman is not "God the Father"

scales of deceit are not in His hand and He does not love to oppress...

Psalms 145:16-17,16 Opening Your hand and satisfying The desire of all that live."17 יהוה is righteous in all His ways, And lovingly-committed in all His works."

Proverbs 14:31, He who oppresses the poor reproaches his Maker, But he who esteems Him shows favour to the needy."
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
7,577
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#39
I understand the church has a prescription that we are supposed to be following,
I'm just asking some basic questions about the wording of the text in Rev 6.
I personally think that the white horseman has to be the anti-Christ so we can continue down the path of interpretation that we have determined to be correct. If it isn't the anti-Christ it messes everything up!
It is my belief that the anti-christ will come and claim to be the promised Messiah and he will deceive many many people.. This will be the basis of the great deception spoken of in prophecy.. So he will go out and conquer many and people will follow him because of his victories but the true elect will not be deceived and will reject him and for this they will be persecuted and beheaded.. I believe many of the anti-christs followers will believe they are doing God service by killing us..
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,717
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#40
I understand the church has a prescription that we are supposed to be following,
I'm just asking some basic questions about the wording of the text in Rev 6.
I personally think that the white horseman has to be the anti-Christ so we can continue down the path of interpretation that we have determined to be correct. If it isn't the anti-Christ it messes everything up!
why would the rider on the white horse be Antichrist and the other three riders not be?

in the text, each of the horsemen are associated with a living creature, in sequence, the first to the fourth. does that fit in with the idea that the first horseman is the Antichrist? how?