Rev 6:1&2 The white horseman,

Noose · Sep 1, 2018

Nope, it can not be a person.

Dan 7:2 Daniel declared: “In my vision in the night I looked, and suddenly the four winds of heaven were churning up the Great Sea. 3Then four great beasts came up out of the sea, each different from the others.

Sea has always been used to represent humanity- out of humanity comes ideas that are against God, not a person. These ideas are influenced by satan.

Noose · Sep 1, 2018

Noose said:

The first horse man goes out as if in a conquest only means men will succumb to lies from satan. Satan always applies a specific sequence; steal, destroy and kill but the most important thing is to avoid the lies. Even Jesus was tempted and satan failed in all 4 attempted lies, so death could not overcome Jesus.

preacherskid · Sep 1, 2018

Chapter 17 v10 says there are 7 kings, 5 have fallen, one is and one is yet to come.
Now if "one is" he has been around for some period of time? sounds more like a system than a man.
I would definitely agree the system is anti Christ!

abcdef · Sep 1, 2018

preacherskid said:

The Revelation was written approx 96 AD. If John says that one head "is", the 6th head, then that can only be Caesar and Rome who was ruling Israel at that time. Caesar was the Antichrist at that time.

But the 6th head is only part of the beast. The greater beast overall is described as being a city and having 7 heads and 10 horns Rev chs. 12 & 17.

The nation/city that ruled Israel in 96 AD was Rome. So the beast at that time was Rome.

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Nehemiah6 · Sep 1, 2018

Noose said:

Nope, it can not be a person.

Dan 7:2 Daniel declared: “In my vision in the night I looked, and suddenly the four winds of heaven were churning up the Great Sea. 3Then four great beasts came up out of the sea, each different from the others.

Sea has always been used to represent humanity- out of humanity comes ideas that are against God, not a person. These ideas are influenced by satan.

Keep reading in Daniel and discover "the little horn".

Nehemiah6 · Sep 1, 2018

abcdef said:

And that's not the end of the story.

preacherskid · Sep 2, 2018

abcdef said:

Most prophecy is written from the perspective of being outside of time. For instance,
Much of the old testament prophecy about Christ is written in present and even past tense.
For instance Isaiah 53:5
Consider this, The bible is all about Christ from beginning to end.
there have been a lot of great empires that have not made scripture because they have nothing to do with Christ.
This beast out of the sea put itself on God's map (so to speak) because they messed with the gospel of Jesus Christ!
During the reign of St. Constantine, Rome took the Gospel of Christ and mixed it with their pagan religions and the RCC was born. From Constantine to the fall of Rome there were 5 emperors Romulus being the last. "5 have fallen". Since then the RCC has ruled the world through fear, false doctrine, religion, all kinds of atrocities, probably single handedly sponsoring the dark ages! I think that this is the women that rides the beast.
think about this, in this world when someone is riding on an animal or "beast" it is because they have control
over it. Any one who owns a horse knows this to be true. I think that the RCC and the beast that it is riding is the 6th head

garee · Sep 2, 2018

White horses represent the conquering power of our savior the thunder of the Lord. White represents the righteousness of God

Revelation 6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

Revelation 19:11And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

Revelation 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

Clothed in fine linen. Clothed with the righteousness of God,

preacherskid · Sep 2, 2018

awesome!!

preacherskid · Sep 2, 2018

abcdef said:

when you click on the link you will see the word bow used in Rev 6:2 is used only once in the bible but it is from the root word G5088, if you enter that into the search window you will see that all the references are to Christ

abcdef · Sep 2, 2018

preacherskid said:

Sorry, but I don't see how every time that a bow is mentioned, that it refers to Christ. Bows are usually associated with war.

abcdef · Sep 2, 2018

preacherskid said:

Yes.

Israel is also the center. Please consider the statue of Daniel 2 with this principle in mind. The nations of the statue rule over the people of Israel, not the planet.

Who is shown to be the beast nation in Daniel 2?

The RCC is the image of the Roman Empire? yes/no?

What about the previous Roman Emperors? Don't they count? If the beast is Rome, didn't the count start when Rome invaded Israel?
In my opinion, the 7 heads represent the lifetime of the Roman Empire and are not individuals. That would make the 8th head the RCC.

Using the principle that you described that Jesus and Israel is the center of the Bible, the world that Rome rules over is primarily Israel. (Not the planet)

I used to believe that also.

The RCC is the 8th head, the image empire of Caesar and the Roman Empire.

MattforJesus · Sep 2, 2018

preacherskid said:

The woman that rides the scarlet colored beast is the unified religious system which the Pope is the head of it, and the Vatican is the headquarters.

The Bible warns the saints of the new age movement that is the future for this sinful world ( 1Timothy 4:1-5; 2 Timothy 4:2-4), and will develop in to a unified religious system, with an interpretation of the Bible based on the occult, nature worship, witchcraft, and evolution, and people can still evolve to be greater, and Jesus is not Lord and Savior, but a good teacher in the evolutionary process and love, and an ascended master and avatar, and do not acknowledge a personal God, but honor the God of forces, or the power of nature as their higher power, and are waiting for the New Age Christ to cause them to evolve to be greater, and spiritual, and they will be like the man Jesus, an ascended master and avatar.

All religions will be interpreted by the new age movement, and anything preached contrary to that is a hate crime.

The Pope and the Vatican will give over to the new age movement, which the Roman Catholic Church when they embraced Christianity did not get rid of their pagan ways, but held unto them and it became their foundation for the interpretation of scriptures, so they do a lot of things that would be considered what pagan religions do, and the Vatican was probably infiltrated by people of the new age persuasion to lead the Church to that interpretation of the Bible.

The Bible says Babylon will never have physical dominion again, but her ways are still on earth, which represent human religion, and the kingdom of man, along with the ways of Medo-Persia, which represent physical cruelty, and the ways of Greece, which represents human wisdom, and the Roman Empire does not lose their dominion until Jesus puts them down, which is the ten horn kingdom, the world split in to ten sections with a leader in each section.

They all show up at the beast kingdom in Revelation 13, the ten horn kingdom, Roman Empire, iron, having the physical dominion, Babylon, Lion, going by their own religion, Medo-Persia, Bear, being physically cruel to take away everyone that opposes their kingdom, and Greece, Leopard, going by their own wisdom (Daniel 7).

And none of those kingdoms fall until Jesus hits the toes of the image of a man in Daniel 2 that represents all 4 kingdoms, then they all fall, for as long as their ways are still on earth their kingdom has not toppled yet, although with the first 3 kingdoms they will never have physical dominion again.

So Babylon has not fallen yet for her ways are still on earth, and the beast kingdom is the kingdom of man in it's entirety, so the beast kingdom is Babylon in spirit, and the truth is a person either belongs to the kingdom of God, or Babylon, the kingdom of man, all through history, even though Babylon only ruled physically for so long, for all who are not part of the kingdom of God is part of the kingdom of man, Babylon, which she is responsible for all the slain on earth.

The Pope is not the antichrist, but the false prophet, who will lead the unified religious system, and the Vatican the headquarters, and is the mother of harlots, for she leads all the false religions of the world interpreted by the new age movement, the occult, which is what Babylon represented, and they can still evolve.

The Pope does not qualify to be the antichrist, for the antichrist will not compete with people for positions of power, for he will not compete for any political office, no spiritual office such as the Pope, will not be involved in competing in business, or anything else that people compete with each other, for he will come in with a bang and do what no other person could do, and that is establish peace in the Middle East, which is the hindrance to the nations coming together, which they want all nations to come together as one to try to solve peace on earth, and he will work from there as a man of peace.

All the antichrist is concerned with is being the New Age Christ, and no other position, which there is no competing for that position, and he will be the only one, and unique above all people that ever lived, for he did what no person could do, and that is rule the world, which he has power over all nations, kindreds, and tongues.

When the antichrist claims to be God by harnessing the power of nature, and obtained power, evolved, the false prophet, the Pope, will do miracles in the sight of people to convince them the New Age Christ did obtain power through the power of nature, and gave this power to the false prophet, and will share this power with all people who follow him.

But the Bible says they are lying wonders.

The ten horn kingdom failed at obtaining peace, and hand their power over to the antichrist, and that is how he gets control of the world, and when they follow the New Age Christ then the unified religious system, the woman, whore, will no longer be needed, which they burn her with fire, and eat her flesh, and do away with her.

Continued,

MattforJesus · Sep 2, 2018

Continued,

Babylon the mother of harlots is not the 7 Churches in Revelation 2 and 3, but I believe that is the way the Church age will go in popular belief, although God always has people abide in the truth.

1. The Church of Ephesus was not that bad for it was the first Church age, but they left their first love which Jesus told them to correct, which might mean they were not caring about people that way they should, which might be by not caring so much for the poor and needy, which love is the fulfilling of the law.

And then the next three Churches were pretty bad which could be when the Roman Empire embraced Christianity with their pagan foundation Christianity, although there were still some that were in the truth.

5. It appears this is speaking of the Reformation, Protestant, and break away from the Catholic Church, which Jesus did not address any serious things such as 2, 3, and 4, Church, but told them their works were not perfect before God, and to correct that.

6. Jesus did not have anything bad to say about this Church, and he gave them an open door that no man can shut it, and the false Christians, the synagogue of Satan, He will make to come and worship at their feet, and told them that He will deliver them from the temptation that shall come upon the whole world, to try them that dwell on earth, which there can only be one temptation that can come upon the whole earth affecting every person, and that is when the world says Peace and safety in the future, for then the world has a choice whether to stay with God, those that are hypocrites, or come to God, or follow the world and their evolution religion.

Jesus will not even allow the people of the 6th Church to be tempted when the world says Peace and safety as the way to have peace on earth, and evolution will cause people to be greater, and spiritual.

Which it looks as if the Protestant movement from the 5th Church where their works were not found perfect, and Jesus told them to correct it, did correct it and became more better at the truth as time went on from the 5th Church age to the 6th Church age where Jesus did not have anything bad to say about them.

Then the 7th Church age which we see now with the flow of money running through America like a raging river, that causes people to be selfish, and arrogant, and self exalting, for it caters to the lusts of the flesh, as well as other nations in the time of technology, that many that claim Christian, which this will be popular at this time, that say they are rich, and increased with goods, and they have need of nothing, but do not know that they are wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked.

Which we see a lot of people that claim Christ, as well as preachers, that love money, and material things, for their wants, and preach the prosperity Gospel, which Paul says withdraw yourselves from them, having food and clothing be content, for the love of money is the root of all evil for it neglects the poor and needy, which love is the fulfilling of the law, and the way God created the world to operate people loving people, which helping the poor and needy is part of loving them.

Although during the time of a certain Church age and their beliefs there is still beliefs of another Church age there too, but not so popular as they were at one time, which the Roman Catholic Church is still here, and the Protestant movement, but the 7th Church is very popular in which they believe God blesses them with money, and material things for their wants, or they know it is wrong but heap money and material things to themselves anyway.

And also concerning the 6th Church it has to be a Church age for Jesus will deliver the saints that dwell in the truth from the temptation that shall come upon the whole world, which is in the future when the world says Peace and safety.

And also the 7th Church age would not state they say they are rich, and increased with goods, if it was back in the first century, for this can only happen at a time that there is money flowing like a big dog, and material things a plenty, which we see today, and the reason for the vast abundance of both is because of technology that paved the way for money, and material things, to flow big time, which they did not have back then.

So I do not believe the Pope is the antichrist, and do not believe the RCC is the mother of the 7 Churches, and do not believe the 7 Churches are the harlots, especially when Jesus did not have anything bad to say about the 6th Church, and said the false Christians, the synagogue of Satan, shall come and worship at their feet, so that does not sound like a harlot church, and the first, and fifth Church, has a little problem that Jesus told them to correct, which in a great house there are some to honor and dishonor, which they would not be any different than your average Church that preaches truth today that has a few hypocrites, but the RCC is the mother of all the false religions of the world interpreted by the occult, and evolution, which includes a false interpretation of the Bible, which is their main source of truth.

So it has to be someone who is a leader that claims the Bible, which would be the Pope that has a great following, and among many other religions as they look up to him as a great spiritual leader, and at that time since Jesus is not Lord and Savior, but a good teacher in the evolutionary process and love, the other religions will have no problem with letting him be the leader, and many believe in evolution.

But there will be some people in religions that believe in a personal God, and whatever they believe, that might not be compatible with the unified religious system, the new age movement, mainly Christians, and Muslims, but they will hinder them from preaching their religion for it is a hate crime, for all religions are valid, and religion is evolution, and the Bible and Islam interpreted according to their evolution religion.

abcdef · Sep 2, 2018

MattforJesus said:

Matt,

I agree with you. Please think about your statement. Can we reason this out?

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You say the that the beast and woman are a religious system, which you explain.

Then you say that the Bishop of Rome (BoR) is the "head" of it.

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How long has that system been in place? Rome fell in 476 AD approx. , so it has been in place for 1500 years, the "image" of Caesar and the Roman Empire are the Bishop of Rome and the Vatican.

If it has been in place for 1500 years, then it cannot be just one person. It can only be a series of persons, holding the position of the Antichrist.

What is shown in prophecy is his rule over the people of Israel and not the planet. Although his influence on the planet has extended in the last 500 years or so, there was never a time when his influence extended that far before that time. This shows that Rome has ruled the world for the last 2000 years, not the planet, the world of Israel.

The requirement to worship Caesar turned into the requirement to worship the Bishop of Rome.

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So you think that the Vatican is the Beast?

What happened in 1929? The Antichrist returned to sit on his seat of the beast again? Rome?

Back from the dead to be a nation among gentile nations again? Caesar comes home to Rome? From out from the abyss, you might say?

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abcdef · Sep 2, 2018

Nehemiah6 said:

No, it is not the end of the story. But it might be the starting point if people agree on it, that it is Rome.

abcdef · Sep 2, 2018

preacherskid said:

Jesus uses the sword that comes out of His mouth for a weapon, the Word of God, the salvation of the gospel kingdom, Rev 19.

preacherskid · Sep 2, 2018

Wow, I am going to have to answer all of that! and me being a hunt and peck guy, haha.
It's the Lords day and I have family coming over for a bbq,
I will see if I can grind through all of this later tonight?

I will just pass this thought along.
Revelation appears to be put together like a collage or a 3-d jigsaw puzzle, we are looking through the lens of time
but at the same time parts of it are moving in real time and to make it even more puzzling it's as if
the parts of the puzzle
are kind of spilled out on the table and left for us to figure out how they fit together.
Here is an example of what I am talking about.
Chapter 12:1-6 speaks of events from the beginning of time all the way though the middle of the tribulation where the woman (Israel) flees into the wilderness for 3.5 years. this tells me a couple things,
1 we are looking through the lens of time
2 we are looking at a bunch of snap shots if you will, (puzzle pieces)
3 they aren't in the right order

So lets just see how this could work
by putting a couple of the pieces together.
Read chapter 11 (about the 2 witnesses) and right between v13 and 14 insert v6 from chapter 12.
Now do see the entire time line of the tribulation?

out of time,
I really do enjoy chatting with you guys and I hope you have a wonderful Lord's day!

MattforJesus · Sep 2, 2018

abcdef said:

The woman is the unified religious system, not the beast, which the beast might be the ten horn kingdom, one world government, for all the kingdoms are referred to as beasts, or it could mean that the unified religious system is in league with the beast 8th king after the 7th king the ten horns, but when he claims to be God then they do away with the woman, whore, unified religious system, for they have no need for her anymore for the New Age Christ is their religion that will cause them to evolve.

The beast is not the unified religious system but the woman, whore, which the woman, whore, Pope, Vatican, RCC, will be in league with the beast, and the Pope the leader of the unified religious system, the false prophet, and the New Age Christ as the beast, which the ten horns comes from him, as well as all the kingdoms, for the 8th king is of the 7 kingdoms, for they were influenced by the devil.

Which is 1. Egypt 2. Assyria 3. Babylon 4. Medo-Persia 5. Greece. Those 5 have fallen. 6. The Roman Empire. One is to come that will rule for a short space three and one half years, 7. Ten horn kingdom which comes from the 4th beast in Daniel 7 which is the Roman Empire that does not lose her dominion until Jesus puts them down.

The 8th king is the antichrist who is of the 7 kings, which the beast has ten horns, physical dominion, Roman Empire, and 7 heads, the 7 kingdoms, and the ten horn kingdom failed at obtaining peace on earth, which is represented that the beast had a deadly wound because the world lost hope for peace on earth, but the deadly wound was healed and he gave them hope for peace on earth, and they said who is like unto the beast, and who can make war with him.

preacherskid · Sep 2, 2018

I personally think that the women riding the beast is the RCC and the beast is all the false religions of the world
that present themselves under the banner of Christianity. "wolf in sheep's clothing" these are all spin offs of the RCC
hence the label "MOTHER OF HARLOTS'
So if we can see this then the deadly wound that is healed is very easy to see!

Rev 6:1&2 The white horseman,

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