Revelation 20:1-10 discussion
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You may be right. Maybe I mixed up Rev. 19 with this;
Revelation 12:11-12
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
I'll have to do some more studying on it. There is still a lot of Revelations that I don't understand.
Revelation 12:11-12
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
I'll have to do some more studying on it. There is still a lot of Revelations that I don't understand.
P
He causes all to take the mark of the beast, which will be the law of the land, take the mark, worship the image or be killed.
But he has to catch you first.
In Jesus’s days the law of the land was to kill all the baby’s under the age of two.
But john the Baptist and Jesus escaped all these things, even though was the law of the land. And Moses as a baby escaped all these things too, even though was the law of the land.
Just because the law of the land says, take the mark and worship the image or be killed, doesn’t mean you can’t escape these things.
And as Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, answered and said in Daniel
17 If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and he will deliver us out of thine hand, O king.
18 But if not, be it known unto thee, O king, that we will not serve thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up.
Just because the verse says
He causes all to take the mark of the beast, and, worship the image or be killed.
Doesn’t mean ALL will take that mark of the beast, and ALL will be killed who don’t. He has to catch you first. But he will probably catch lots of us.
But as the bible says, some of us will remain
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
But he has to catch you first.
In Jesus’s days the law of the land was to kill all the baby’s under the age of two.
But john the Baptist and Jesus escaped all these things, even though was the law of the land. And Moses as a baby escaped all these things too, even though was the law of the land.
Just because the law of the land says, take the mark and worship the image or be killed, doesn’t mean you can’t escape these things.
And as Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, answered and said in Daniel
17 If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and he will deliver us out of thine hand, O king.
18 But if not, be it known unto thee, O king, that we will not serve thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up.
Just because the verse says
He causes all to take the mark of the beast, and, worship the image or be killed.
Doesn’t mean ALL will take that mark of the beast, and ALL will be killed who don’t. He has to catch you first. But he will probably catch lots of us.
But as the bible says, some of us will remain
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Thanks zone, I can always depend on you for some help. 
Also, no worries, you know I always go to Jesus first wth all information.
Im just trying to figure it all out, I read revalations, and dont understand alot, but I do recieve in part,
hard to explain, but parts when read are so clear, like its right before me and seen.
But always in part.
Sometimes I dont want to see, but its not up to me or any of us, God simply reviels so we know we are in His care.
God bless
pickles
Also, no worries, you know I always go to Jesus first wth all information.
Im just trying to figure it all out, I read revalations, and dont understand alot, but I do recieve in part,
hard to explain, but parts when read are so clear, like its right before me and seen.
But always in part.
Sometimes I dont want to see, but its not up to me or any of us, God simply reviels so we know we are in His care.
God bless
pickles
E
hi bud.
the 'first resurrection' is now.
Jesus is the Resurrection, He is the First Resurrection.
we who are born again are raised with Him in His resurrection.
this is the new birth. we died once, when we were buried with Him, and raised when the new man was raised.
we will suffer the first death - of these bodies, but not the second.
though the body dies, we will not - no second death.
the second death has no power over us, thanks be to Christ Jesus Our Lord
John 3
You Must Be Born Again
1Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. 2This man came to Jesusa by night and said to him, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God, for no one can do these signs that you do unless God is with him.” 3Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born againb he cannot see the kingdom of God.” 4Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?” 5Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.c 7Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘Youd must be born again.’ 8The winde blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
9Nicodemus said to him, “How can these things be?” 10Jesus answered him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and yet you do not understand these things? 11Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know, and bear witness to what we have seen, but youf do not receive our testimony. 12If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.g 14And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.
Romans 6:4
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Ephesians 2:6
And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus
Colossians 3:1
If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
and so on.
the second death is what happens at the Resurrection of all the dead at the Last Day (anyone not saved by grace through faith unto regeneration, now....there's no future 1,000 years...that would make two resurrections of the dead, or even three).
Revelation 20:12-14
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
love zone
the 'first resurrection' is now.
Jesus is the Resurrection, He is the First Resurrection.
we who are born again are raised with Him in His resurrection.
this is the new birth. we died once, when we were buried with Him, and raised when the new man was raised.
we will suffer the first death - of these bodies, but not the second.
though the body dies, we will not - no second death.
the second death has no power over us, thanks be to Christ Jesus Our Lord
John 3
You Must Be Born Again
1Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. 2This man came to Jesusa by night and said to him, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God, for no one can do these signs that you do unless God is with him.” 3Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born againb he cannot see the kingdom of God.” 4Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?” 5Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.c 7Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘Youd must be born again.’ 8The winde blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
9Nicodemus said to him, “How can these things be?” 10Jesus answered him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and yet you do not understand these things? 11Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know, and bear witness to what we have seen, but youf do not receive our testimony. 12If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.g 14And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.
Romans 6:4
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Ephesians 2:6
And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus
Colossians 3:1
If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
and so on.
the second death is what happens at the Resurrection of all the dead at the Last Day (anyone not saved by grace through faith unto regeneration, now....there's no future 1,000 years...that would make two resurrections of the dead, or even three).
Revelation 20:12-14
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
love zone
2. We are made alive (ressurected spiritually) yet one day e will be ressurected by Christ to be given our new bodies
3. 2 or three ressurections? says who?
if your trying to use this to prove there is no 1000 years, it is a very weak argument.
note, I think you know, everything else you said we are in complete agreement.
E
your sounding like a scofieldite here. Trying to make things sound different than they really are.
Salvation from the time of adam to today has always been of Christ. The law never saved anyone. It has always been of faith, even abraham was saved by faith not works.
gods covenant with abraham never had a thing to do with salvation, for salvation could be had before the covenant was even made. Gods covenant with him had to deal with a group who would bring in the messiah, and Gods provisions and promise to him for having faith (to him and his people)
why everyone always wants to make this a salvation covenant is beyond me
Salvation from the time of adam to today has always been of Christ. The law never saved anyone. It has always been of faith, even abraham was saved by faith not works.
gods covenant with abraham never had a thing to do with salvation, for salvation could be had before the covenant was even made. Gods covenant with him had to deal with a group who would bring in the messiah, and Gods provisions and promise to him for having faith (to him and his people)
why everyone always wants to make this a salvation covenant is beyond me
E
I was thinking something on the way over here.
When was the last time God was actually in the holy of holys of the temple in Israel?
We know from earlier OT accounts, anyone who entered which was not cleansed was basically pulled out by a rope. Yet after the restoration from Babylonian captivity. Did Israel ever follow God the way he intended? They added new laws. they took things into their own hands, they still did not listen to the prophets. They weren't even owners of their own land, they were slaves of Gentile nations.
So was this new temple EVER used by God in its original design? how many high priests should have been pulled out by a rope? for that matter, how could the high priest of Christs day, who truly was against God able to enter the holy of Holys without being put to death by God?
as far as sin being forgive by and at the temple. The author of Hebrews lets us know that was NEVER the case. This the temples power to forgive sin was never an issue, in fact we could say it was useless to forgive sin. Jesus, when he came to earth forgave sin by his own power. proving the means to have forgiveness was not at the temple. But him, making the temple obsolete before he even died. (yet as I already showed, it was never able to do this)
Now you might ask why I bring this up. Alot of people have been decrying the rebuilding of the temple. or a third temple, saying it is not needed or usefull. Saying why? Jesus took care of the temple, it is not needed anymore. yet as I hopefully have shown, it was not even used by God for hundreds, maybe a thousand years. And it never was usefull for taking away sin.
Yet Jesus, when he entered jerusalem on his last week before the cross. Called this temple, which was ALWAYS useless to forgive sin, HIS FATHERS HOUSE.
something to think about!
When was the last time God was actually in the holy of holys of the temple in Israel?
We know from earlier OT accounts, anyone who entered which was not cleansed was basically pulled out by a rope. Yet after the restoration from Babylonian captivity. Did Israel ever follow God the way he intended? They added new laws. they took things into their own hands, they still did not listen to the prophets. They weren't even owners of their own land, they were slaves of Gentile nations.
So was this new temple EVER used by God in its original design? how many high priests should have been pulled out by a rope? for that matter, how could the high priest of Christs day, who truly was against God able to enter the holy of Holys without being put to death by God?
as far as sin being forgive by and at the temple. The author of Hebrews lets us know that was NEVER the case. This the temples power to forgive sin was never an issue, in fact we could say it was useless to forgive sin. Jesus, when he came to earth forgave sin by his own power. proving the means to have forgiveness was not at the temple. But him, making the temple obsolete before he even died. (yet as I already showed, it was never able to do this)
Now you might ask why I bring this up. Alot of people have been decrying the rebuilding of the temple. or a third temple, saying it is not needed or usefull. Saying why? Jesus took care of the temple, it is not needed anymore. yet as I hopefully have shown, it was not even used by God for hundreds, maybe a thousand years. And it never was usefull for taking away sin.
Yet Jesus, when he entered jerusalem on his last week before the cross. Called this temple, which was ALWAYS useless to forgive sin, HIS FATHERS HOUSE.
something to think about!
E
as for the passages which people keep bringing up and demanding to know why paul did not mention 1000 years. why would he?
in Corinthians, he was replying to people who claimed there would be no resurrection of the dead. and trying to show those who may have been undecided or worried about this that if their was no resurrection. Jesus died in vein, there is no forgiveness (and who would care if their was, this life is all we have, then nothing) and we as christians are at least the most pitiful people on earth. He claimed Christ won victory over death, we do not have to fear it anymore. he did not have to go into an in-depth teaching on end times stuff, why would he? it was not the context of what he was talking about. and no one he spoke to would see it (the return of Christ) in their lifetime anyway.
same with Thessalonians. he was replying to people who argued the resurrection already took place. and they were left out. Again, why would paul take time to go into great detail on end times stuff when he did not need to? he was trying to show there would be a resurrection, and it had not happened yet.
Peter was told how he would die. I am sure even paul knew this account, So I am sure none of the Apostles expected these events to take place during their lifetime. thus non of the people they wrote to would be expecting it. so why go into great detail explaining it? they did not have to. And it owuld not have helped them in the context of the arguments they were making. Most people, (if they knew the OT prophesies) would have known it would happen anyway, that was the great mystery.
Not to mention, God did this when he told John what to write. (he spoke that after the tribulation, and the return of Christ, Satan would be bound, and Christ would reign for 1000 years) The OT spoke of events where Christ would reign physically on earth, even the disciples of Christ understood this, when they asked Christ when that would be. And Christ did not say it would never be, He said it is NOT FOR THEM TO KNOW THE TIME. If there was going to be no physical reign of Christ, I am sure Jesus would have set them straight right there. by telling them when they asked it was not going to happen, it was all spiritual in nature, it would never be literally fulfilled. The fact he did not tell them this, but ONLY told them it was not for them to know WHEN it would happen. should speak volumes.
in Corinthians, he was replying to people who claimed there would be no resurrection of the dead. and trying to show those who may have been undecided or worried about this that if their was no resurrection. Jesus died in vein, there is no forgiveness (and who would care if their was, this life is all we have, then nothing) and we as christians are at least the most pitiful people on earth. He claimed Christ won victory over death, we do not have to fear it anymore. he did not have to go into an in-depth teaching on end times stuff, why would he? it was not the context of what he was talking about. and no one he spoke to would see it (the return of Christ) in their lifetime anyway.
same with Thessalonians. he was replying to people who argued the resurrection already took place. and they were left out. Again, why would paul take time to go into great detail on end times stuff when he did not need to? he was trying to show there would be a resurrection, and it had not happened yet.
Peter was told how he would die. I am sure even paul knew this account, So I am sure none of the Apostles expected these events to take place during their lifetime. thus non of the people they wrote to would be expecting it. so why go into great detail explaining it? they did not have to. And it owuld not have helped them in the context of the arguments they were making. Most people, (if they knew the OT prophesies) would have known it would happen anyway, that was the great mystery.
Not to mention, God did this when he told John what to write. (he spoke that after the tribulation, and the return of Christ, Satan would be bound, and Christ would reign for 1000 years) The OT spoke of events where Christ would reign physically on earth, even the disciples of Christ understood this, when they asked Christ when that would be. And Christ did not say it would never be, He said it is NOT FOR THEM TO KNOW THE TIME. If there was going to be no physical reign of Christ, I am sure Jesus would have set them straight right there. by telling them when they asked it was not going to happen, it was all spiritual in nature, it would never be literally fulfilled. The fact he did not tell them this, but ONLY told them it was not for them to know WHEN it would happen. should speak volumes.
God does not depend on what we think, how we believe or what we do to bring forth what He decreed in His sovereign will of what shall take place unto the end of History. Do you really believe of what we believe and do will have an impact or change the course of God's sovereign will? He doesn't need us! But he wants us to be part of His will, Yes, but he doesn't need us.
Seeing how some like to ask questions and ramble a bit, allow me the latitude in doing the same. Jesus gave an indication to His disciples that the kingdom of God had come unto them but casting out devils with the finger or Spirit of God in (Lk 11:20, Mt 12:28). The Lord also commissioned His disciple to do likewise in (Mt 10:1-8) and in some cases were not able to (Mt 17:19,20). However, no where has the Lord ever discouraged this practice of authority that He gives to those He has called and raised up. If our Lord used this casting out of devils as an indication that the kingdom had come unto them, then this same indication should be among those who have been called by the Lord in this present evil world. If you believe that Satan is presently bound then perhaps you would also believe there is no need to cast out what is not present and call those foolish who do believe. Yet there are those that do not see the need for this kind of authority to be displayed and even chide those that would even consider it, but how is the kingdom of God revealed?
If the kingdom of God is without observation (Lk 17:20) then are we to acknowledge it by faith with the righteousness, joy and peace that it gives the believer (Rom 14:17)? But doesn’t (Mk 9:1) say that the kingdom of God comes with power and that it can be seen or perceived? Is that perception of power only through faith unto those who believe or is that power demonstrated to those in unbelief that they might believe? Did not Jesus demonstrate that power and cast out devils and give that same authority to His disciples (Mt 8:16,31,32, Mt 10:1-8)? Shall not the ‘strongman’ (devils) be bound to spoil his goods by casting him out first by the finger of the Spirit of God, then shall not his house be spoiled that he possessed? If the unclean spirits and devils leave and the house is swept without the Spirit of God taking up occupancy, the spirit returns with seven others more foul and wicked then before and the end of that man is worst then at the first (Mt 12:45 – look at the context of Lk 11:20-26). Isn’t this fun!
Is not this the kingdom that we are to seek first (Mt 6:33) with His righteousness and shall not those who cast out devils be slandered and thought evil more than our Lord being members and servants of His household (Mt 10:24,25)? Does this household not apply to the church that we are members and servants unto, with Christ as the head, being built together as a habitation of God through the Spirit as the household of God (Eph 2:19-22)? If you believe that the kingdom of God has come and is reigning as such, should you acknowledge the authority and calling given to the members of the church to demonstrate the power of that kingdom and the word of that kingdom is through preaching (Lk 4:43, 9:2, Acts 28:31)? Shall it not be along the lines of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit to deny the power of God in casting out devils and spirits through the members of His own household? Did not the apostle Paul do this in (Acts 16:18, 19:12) and do we nor see what happened to those who tried to do the same without the Spirit (v.13-16). Then why try to stop and diminish, with your doctrine, those who have been given authority to exercise and demonstrate the power of that kingdom? This is all on the contingency that you believe that the kingdom of God has come to reign and exercise rule upon the earth.
If there are those who will not enter into the kingdom having claimed this work of casting out demons in the name of Christ (Mt 7:22), I would have to conclude that the finger and Spirit of God was not involved but the devils and spirits left of their own accord to search for others to occupy and possess as their dwelling place or house, giving the appearance and form that they were cast out. There would be no conflict in that scenario of a kingdom divided against itself. If the kingdom has come and has been here for the past 2,000 plus years, then let those alone that have the authority to cast our devils and spirits from the kingdom of darkness so that others might see and believe despite their evil heart of unbelief.
If the kingdom of God is without observation (Lk 17:20) then are we to acknowledge it by faith with the righteousness, joy and peace that it gives the believer (Rom 14:17)? But doesn’t (Mk 9:1) say that the kingdom of God comes with power and that it can be seen or perceived? Is that perception of power only through faith unto those who believe or is that power demonstrated to those in unbelief that they might believe? Did not Jesus demonstrate that power and cast out devils and give that same authority to His disciples (Mt 8:16,31,32, Mt 10:1-8)? Shall not the ‘strongman’ (devils) be bound to spoil his goods by casting him out first by the finger of the Spirit of God, then shall not his house be spoiled that he possessed? If the unclean spirits and devils leave and the house is swept without the Spirit of God taking up occupancy, the spirit returns with seven others more foul and wicked then before and the end of that man is worst then at the first (Mt 12:45 – look at the context of Lk 11:20-26). Isn’t this fun!
Is not this the kingdom that we are to seek first (Mt 6:33) with His righteousness and shall not those who cast out devils be slandered and thought evil more than our Lord being members and servants of His household (Mt 10:24,25)? Does this household not apply to the church that we are members and servants unto, with Christ as the head, being built together as a habitation of God through the Spirit as the household of God (Eph 2:19-22)? If you believe that the kingdom of God has come and is reigning as such, should you acknowledge the authority and calling given to the members of the church to demonstrate the power of that kingdom and the word of that kingdom is through preaching (Lk 4:43, 9:2, Acts 28:31)? Shall it not be along the lines of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit to deny the power of God in casting out devils and spirits through the members of His own household? Did not the apostle Paul do this in (Acts 16:18, 19:12) and do we nor see what happened to those who tried to do the same without the Spirit (v.13-16). Then why try to stop and diminish, with your doctrine, those who have been given authority to exercise and demonstrate the power of that kingdom? This is all on the contingency that you believe that the kingdom of God has come to reign and exercise rule upon the earth.
If there are those who will not enter into the kingdom having claimed this work of casting out demons in the name of Christ (Mt 7:22), I would have to conclude that the finger and Spirit of God was not involved but the devils and spirits left of their own accord to search for others to occupy and possess as their dwelling place or house, giving the appearance and form that they were cast out. There would be no conflict in that scenario of a kingdom divided against itself. If the kingdom has come and has been here for the past 2,000 plus years, then let those alone that have the authority to cast our devils and spirits from the kingdom of darkness so that others might see and believe despite their evil heart of unbelief.
that's all very interesting and it sounds exciting, peter.
but where are the scriptures on it?
if it's there so clearly, can you just post (without cherry picking, or personal interpretation) ANY clear description of a thousand years?
how many times is it mentioned regarding Post Second Advent?
if it is such an unusal and different dispensation of time, and includes the Physically Present Glorified Lord on earth, with people actually being taught and saved - wouldn't it be CLEAR?
here's some on the mark....i see no one who takes it surviving. and i see a lake of fire mentioned immediately.
Revelation 14
9And another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10he also will drink the wine of God’s wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.”
but where are the scriptures on it?
if it's there so clearly, can you just post (without cherry picking, or personal interpretation) ANY clear description of a thousand years?
how many times is it mentioned regarding Post Second Advent?
if it is such an unusal and different dispensation of time, and includes the Physically Present Glorified Lord on earth, with people actually being taught and saved - wouldn't it be CLEAR?
here's some on the mark....i see no one who takes it surviving. and i see a lake of fire mentioned immediately.
Revelation 14
9And another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10he also will drink the wine of God’s wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.”
when EG?
right....we are made alive now, passed from death to life - new birth. could be called the first resurrection - no second death.
right...new glorified bodies....at The Resurrection on The Last Day.
but is that really 1,000 years AFTER the Second Advent?
or is it at The Second Advent?
how many resurrections are mentioned in Rev 20?
what is the first and what is the....oh....there is no Second Resurrection mentioned
i know EG.
love you bud.
right....we are made alive now, passed from death to life - new birth. could be called the first resurrection - no second death.
right...new glorified bodies....at The Resurrection on The Last Day.
but is that really 1,000 years AFTER the Second Advent?
or is it at The Second Advent?
how many resurrections are mentioned in Rev 20?
what is the first and what is the....oh....there is no Second Resurrection mentioned
i know EG.
love you bud.
your sounding like a scofieldite here. Trying to make things sound different than they really are.
Salvation from the time of adam to today has always been of Christ. The law never saved anyone. It has always been of faith, even abraham was saved by faith not works.
gods covenant with abraham never had a thing to do with salvation, for salvation could be had before the covenant was even made. Gods covenant with him had to deal with a group who would bring in the messiah, and Gods provisions and promise to him for having faith (to him and his people)
why everyone always wants to make this a salvation covenant is beyond me
Salvation from the time of adam to today has always been of Christ. The law never saved anyone. It has always been of faith, even abraham was saved by faith not works.
gods covenant with abraham never had a thing to do with salvation, for salvation could be had before the covenant was even made. Gods covenant with him had to deal with a group who would bring in the messiah, and Gods provisions and promise to him for having faith (to him and his people)
why everyone always wants to make this a salvation covenant is beyond me
i know you're not of scofield and darby.
they did make it a salvation issue. darby said words to the effect that "the jew shall never enter the christian church"
eternally 2 peoples.
scofield spliced up Redemptive History, which made room for what we see today: jews not to be evangelized. there's a separate PLAN for them. we know this is the worst form of antisemitism there is.
God said clearly in Joshua He gave them the Land, not one thing He promised failed to come to pass.
Jesus Came. The King. He was and is King. for everyone. jews included.
i have no idea what kind of God would blind an entire nation of people for 2000+ years, including those who are born and brought up in a corrupted version of the Oral Traditions which had nothing to do with Moses and so can not save them at all.......keeping them receiving the Gospel by faith, all the while planning to give them some soil in the Middle East as a loose end needing to be tied up.
not adding up....at all.
love zone.
EG...
i REALLY like this post
i'd just add this:
John 2
13The Passover of the Jews was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem. 14In the temple he found those who were selling oxen and sheep and pigeons, and the money-changers sitting there. 15And making a whip of cords, he drove them all out of the temple, with the sheep and oxen. And he poured out the coins of the money-changers and overturned their tables. 16And he told those who sold the pigeons, “Take these things away; do not make my Father’s house a house of trade.” 17His disciples remembered that it was written, “Zeal for your house will consume me.”
18So the Jews said to him, “What sign do you show us for doing these things?” 19Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.” 20The Jews then said, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will you raise it up in three days?” 21But he was speaking about the temple of his body. 22When therefore he was raised from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this, and they believed the Scripture and the word that Jesus had spoken.
John 14:23
Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.
1 Corinthians 3:16
Don't you know that you yourselves are God's temple and that God's Spirit lives in you?
1 Corinthians 6:19
Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own;
2 Corinthians 6:16
What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: "I will live with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people.
Ephesians 2:22
And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.
1 Timothy 3:15
if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God's household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.
~
love you EG.
Kath
i REALLY like this post
i'd just add this:
John 2
13The Passover of the Jews was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem. 14In the temple he found those who were selling oxen and sheep and pigeons, and the money-changers sitting there. 15And making a whip of cords, he drove them all out of the temple, with the sheep and oxen. And he poured out the coins of the money-changers and overturned their tables. 16And he told those who sold the pigeons, “Take these things away; do not make my Father’s house a house of trade.” 17His disciples remembered that it was written, “Zeal for your house will consume me.”
18So the Jews said to him, “What sign do you show us for doing these things?” 19Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.” 20The Jews then said, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will you raise it up in three days?” 21But he was speaking about the temple of his body. 22When therefore he was raised from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this, and they believed the Scripture and the word that Jesus had spoken.
John 14:23
Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.
1 Corinthians 3:16
Don't you know that you yourselves are God's temple and that God's Spirit lives in you?
1 Corinthians 6:19
Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own;
2 Corinthians 6:16
What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: "I will live with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people.
Ephesians 2:22
And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.
1 Timothy 3:15
if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God's household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.
~
love you EG.
Kath
'Dispensationalists believe that the Jews are God’s special Chosen People who do NOT need to believe in Jesus Christ in order to be saved, but instead will be saved purely by their race.'
I believe in periods of time known as dispensations that characterize specifics dealings with Israel and man and later in terms of the church through the grace of God based on the sacrifice of Christ accomplished and made manifest in time. If you want to call me a dispensationalist, go right ahead, but I do not believe in the above statement, nor do I practice it. I also believe that some of the men of the past and present who have been accused of this do not believe in it as well and have been grossly misunderstood and misrepresented by opportunist who are not honest and want to prove a point by using others in doing so and for their dishonesty they should not be trusted like some on this site have done in the past and are doing it in the present.
I believe in periods of time known as dispensations that characterize specifics dealings with Israel and man and later in terms of the church through the grace of God based on the sacrifice of Christ accomplished and made manifest in time. If you want to call me a dispensationalist, go right ahead, but I do not believe in the above statement, nor do I practice it. I also believe that some of the men of the past and present who have been accused of this do not believe in it as well and have been grossly misunderstood and misrepresented by opportunist who are not honest and want to prove a point by using others in doing so and for their dishonesty they should not be trusted like some on this site have done in the past and are doing it in the present.
Hebrews 9:11
When Christ came as high priest of the good things that are already here, he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not man-made, that is to say, not a part of this creation.
Hebrews 11:10
For he was looking forward to the city with foundations, whose architect and builder is God.
Hebrews 11:16
Instead, they were longing for a better country--a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them.
Hebrews 12:22
But you have come to Mount Zion, to the heavenly Jerusalem, the city of the living God. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly,
Hebrews 13
9Do not be led away by diverse and strange teachings, for it is good for the heart to be strengthened by grace, not by foods, which have not benefited those devoted to them. 10 We have an altar from which those who serve the tent have no right to eat. 11For the bodies of those animals whose blood is brought into the holy places by the high priest as a sacrifice for sin are burned outside the camp. 12 So Jesus also suffered outside the gate in order to sanctify the people through his own blood. 13 Therefore let us go to him outside the camp and bear the reproach he endured. 14 For here we have no lasting city, but we seek the city that is to come. 15 Through him then let us continually offer up a sacrifice of praise to God, that is, the fruit of lips that acknowledge his name. 16 Do not neglect to do good and to share what you have, for such sacrifices are pleasing to God.
When Christ came as high priest of the good things that are already here, he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not man-made, that is to say, not a part of this creation.
Hebrews 11:10
For he was looking forward to the city with foundations, whose architect and builder is God.
Hebrews 11:16
Instead, they were longing for a better country--a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them.
Hebrews 12:22
But you have come to Mount Zion, to the heavenly Jerusalem, the city of the living God. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly,
Hebrews 13
9Do not be led away by diverse and strange teachings, for it is good for the heart to be strengthened by grace, not by foods, which have not benefited those devoted to them. 10 We have an altar from which those who serve the tent have no right to eat. 11For the bodies of those animals whose blood is brought into the holy places by the high priest as a sacrifice for sin are burned outside the camp. 12 So Jesus also suffered outside the gate in order to sanctify the people through his own blood. 13 Therefore let us go to him outside the camp and bear the reproach he endured. 14 For here we have no lasting city, but we seek the city that is to come. 15 Through him then let us continually offer up a sacrifice of praise to God, that is, the fruit of lips that acknowledge his name. 16 Do not neglect to do good and to share what you have, for such sacrifices are pleasing to God.