Revelation Timeline

[GaryA]

I don't interpret all the events in our Lord's Revelation as being chronological like men's traditions do. I don't think KennethC does either.

But the 7 trumpets, especially with the last 3, are definitely in order, because of the 3 Woe periods attached to the last 3 trumpets, and because the 7 trumpets represent an order for battle, the last one aligning with the 7th Vial when Jesus comes to fight at Armageddon.

The most solid alignment of events in Revelation are those last 3 trumpet - woe periods, by which is the timeframe key for all the other events written in Revelation.

"That is not what I am talking about..."

I totally agree 100% that:

~ The "opening" of the seals is in the order that they are numbered.
~ The "sounding" of the trumpets is in the order that they are numbered.
~ The "pouring" of the vials is in the order that they are numbered.

 

[KennethC]

Hi GaryA,

The main reason that Jesus will return within a very short time after the 7th bowl has been poured out, the bowl judgments completing God's wrath, is because Jesus said that if those days had not been shortened, no one would be left alive on the earth. Therefore Jesus could not put off his return for any lengthy amount of time. In fact regarding those last 3 1/2 years, consider what the angel said to Daniel:

"From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days. Blessed is the one who waits for and reaches the end of the 1,335 days.

1,290 days is 30 days past the 3 1/2 year mark and 1,335 days is 45 days beyond that. Not sure what is going on during those days, or if Jesus is already here. These extra days could be the judgment of the sheep and goats and other issues that the Lord may be addressing when he returns. There will definitely be something going on during those 30 and 45 days. But one thing that is for sure and that is that the Lord's return will take place very shortly after the end of that last 3 1/2 years.

I can explain that to you.........

The reason that Daniel gives the extra 30 days (1,290) and the next 45 days (1,335) is because the first 1,260 days is given to the beast to rule. Then Jesus comes raptures the Church so that God's Wrath can be poured out, and then the battle of Armageddon ensues !!!

The reason why Daniel said blessed is the man that comes to the 1,335th day is because that is when His millennial reign starts !!!

Matthew 24:29 and Revelation 16 clearly shows God's wrath is poured out after the GT, not during it !!!

 

[KennethC]

Really??? Please show me that...

And - when you quote Matthew 24:29-31 and / or Mark 13:24-27 and say "See here -- it says right here that Jesus comes immediately after the Tribulation." -- I will then show you why you are wrong ( how you have misinterpreted the wording of the passage )...

How because Jesus is crystal clear in when He said these things take place, and the wording of Matthew 24:29 is not misinterpreted !!!

 

[DP]

"Nope -- not in the slightest..."

Daniel 9:27 is talking about a / the work of Christ - not some future 'AntiChrist'. It has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with "breaking a treaty" - nor, the building of a temple - nor, the Abomination of Desolation [ in particular ].

"Deny it all you want ... that is okay ... one day you will understand..."

Dan.9:27 has nothing... to do with Christ's Ministry.

The Dan.11 chapter reveals more of what the Dan.9:27 verse is about, and thus the events of the "one week". Once Jesus was 'cut off', He has nothing more to do in the prophecy except at the very end of it with His second coming and cleansing of the temple (actually the setting of the Ezekiel temple in Jerusalem instead).

 

[DP]

"No, it doesn't..."

I noticed that you seem to have completely ignored the scripture I quoted in the post that you quoted - that makes it clear ( does it not? ) - that Jesus Himself "administrates the pouring out of the vials"...

Therefore -- don't you think He would have to "be here" first - "before the vials are administered" - if He is the one doing the "administering"...?

I'm not the one ignoring Scripture, that Rev.16:15 is Jesus giving His Church still on earth a warning on the 6th Vial timing, that He comes "as a thief". And then the next verses are about the battle of Armageddon when He comes.

Here's another... proof that you are not following Scripture:

Rev 16:1-2
16:1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.


2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.
KJV

Even those angels are involved in pouring out the final 7th Vial, which is the specific time of God's cup of wrath on the last day.

Some here don't understand that the "day of the Lord" events is about God's cup of wrath poured out upon the wicked on very last day of this world, which is also the day of Christ's second coming. That pouring out involves the battle of Armageddon, and is also the event of Ezekiel 39. It is also the time when Jesus will gather His Church.

All the other previous periods of the 6 Vials occur DURING the tribulation (within the 5th & 6th trumpet timeframe). God's two witnesses likely have something to do with administering those points of wrath (plagues) upon the beast, much like the days of Moses and the children of Israel in Egypt.

 

[PlainWord]

Seriously, have you guys got your visas for Israel and your airplane tickets well organised yet, so you can do what Jesus told you.

To flee to the mountains of Judea or do you know a better place than He told you to go? And why would you know a better place to go? Above all, make sure that you get a visa and ticket that doesn't expire quickly as it might take a while. We survived the blood moons and Shemitah's and I still have my left behind.

I wonder how the Israeli State is going to react with the influx of millions of Dispensationalists as they are not easy at all. But, I suppose we all need to have faith so why not having for a speciial visa and ticket. I just don't believe that Israell will release many visas.

Anyone trying to change mountains of Judea to.....the mountains of YourChoosing..... could easily also turn the New Jerusalem into the New New York. No problem there. Ones we start changing names like that, we can end up anywhere.

Exactly!! The Great Tribulation is aimed at Israel. It is AKA the time of Jacob's Trouble. The location of this Tribulation is clear.

After all, Jesus had just finished discussing the fate of the Temple. They were sitting on the Mt of Olives looking at the Temple and Eastern Gate. So, when Jesus was discussing the end times, He was speaking primarily of events in Israel. Hence, like you said, "Those in Judea are to flee." He didn't say, "Those in Paris and London and Los Angeles are to flee."

 

[KennethC]

Exactly!! The Great Tribulation is aimed at Israel. It is AKA the time of Jacob's Trouble. The location of this Tribulation is clear.

After all, Jesus had just finished discussing the fate of the Temple. They were sitting on the Mt of Olives looking at the Temple and Eastern Gate. So, when Jesus was discussing the end times, He was speaking primarily of events in Israel. Hence, like you said, "Those in Judea are to flee." He didn't say, "Those in Paris and London and Los Angeles are to flee."

That is just ridiculous the two of you would misrepresent that scripture from Jesus telling the Jews in Judea to flee to the mountains as we think that applies to everybody.

We think no such thing, and it is also a misconception to think the GT only applies to Jews and Israel !!!

Revelation clearly says where the beast authority will stretch during the GT, and it says on every tribe, tongue, and nation; Not just Israel and the Jews !!!

 

[DP]

Exactly!! The Great Tribulation is aimed at Israel. It is AKA the time of Jacob's Trouble. The location of this Tribulation is clear.

After all, Jesus had just finished discussing the fate of the Temple. They were sitting on the Mt of Olives looking at the Temple and Eastern Gate. So, when Jesus was discussing the end times, He was speaking primarily of events in Israel. Hence, like you said, "Those in Judea are to flee." He didn't say, "Those in Paris and London and Los Angeles are to flee."

How I wish that were true, but it is not.

The time of great tribulation will be world-wide, because we are told the "dragon" will have power over all peoples and nations on the earth in Rev.13, and that all the world will worship him, except those who's names were written in the book of life from the foundation of the world.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Exactly!! The Great Tribulation is aimed at Israel. It is AKA the time of Jacob's Trouble. The location of this Tribulation is clear.

After all, Jesus had just finished discussing the fate of the Temple. They were sitting on the Mt of Olives looking at the Temple and Eastern Gate. So, when Jesus was discussing the end times, He was speaking primarily of events in Israel. Hence, like you said, "Those in Judea are to flee." He didn't say, "Those in Paris and London and Los Angeles are to flee."

He told those in jerusalem to flee. Becauae as John tells us in revelation. The man of sin will go after Israel. God will protect her in the mountains if she flees..

Then he turns his wrath on the rest oof her offspring, and the whole world..

 

[GaryA]

How because Jesus is crystal clear in when He said these things take place, and the wording of Matthew 24:29 is not misinterpreted !!!

Do you see the connection between the two witnesses and the trumpet events?

-- and the bottomless pit?



Does it say:

Immediately after the tribulation of those days Christ will return...

?


No - it does not -- does it...?


Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
~ Matthew 24:29

And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
~ Matthew 24:30

"The Tribulation is OVER and there is still a space of time before the Lord returns! Do you see it?"

TRUMPET EVENTS! ( #1 - #6 )

From my study of End Times prophecy, I have concluded that - between the 'end' of the Great Tribulation Period and the return of Christ - is a space of time that is at least 3.5 years long - during which the Two Witnesses give their testimony, etc. - out of which the Trumpet Events are brought about...

It is not the return of Christ that ends the Great Tribulation Period -- it is the Two Witnesses...

 

[GaryA]

Dan.9:27 has nothing... to do with Christ's Ministry.

"On the contrary -- it has everything to do with Christ's Ministry."

 

[GaryA]

Even those angels are involved in pouring out...

"Absolutely! The angels are involved... I agree!"

However, I endeavor to always consider what scripture-as-a-whole says about something...


2 Thessalonians 1:

[SUP]7[/SUP] And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, [SUP]8[/SUP] In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:


Revelation 19:

[SUP]11[/SUP] And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. [SUP]12[/SUP] His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. [SUP]13[/SUP] And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. [SUP]14[/SUP] And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. [SUP]15[/SUP] And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. [SUP]16[/SUP] And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS. [SUP]17[/SUP] And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; [SUP]18[/SUP] That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.


Would you say that 'he' is the Lord Jesus Christ?

What do you make of this?:


he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God


Don't push it aside, cover it over, and forget it. It is a part of scripture that must be considered -- all scripture must agree - remember?

Read it - again and again - until it sinks in...

he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God

he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God

he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God

he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God

he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God

he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God

he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God

he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God

he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God

he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God


This is indicating that Jesus "administrates" the "pouring out" of the vials.

In other words, Jesus Himself 'dispenses' the Wrath of God upon the world.


Revelation 15:

[SUP]1[/SUP] And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.

.
.
.

[SUP]5[/SUP] And after that I looked, and, behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened: [SUP]6[/SUP] And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues, clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles. [SUP]7[/SUP] And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever.


'vials' => "the wrath of God"


Who 'dispenses' the Wrath of God upon the world? ( all seven vials )


Jesus!


Notice how that the "great voice out of the temple" instructed the angels to "pour out" their vials of the wrath of God...

Sounds like it is referring to Almighty God [ the Father ] - right?


Do you honestly think that there are literal 'vials' - containing ( read this two ways ) the [ literal ] Wrath of God...???

Don't get totally lost in the illustration of it:

~ Almighty God "puts forth" the "fierceness and wrath of Almighty God"
~ Angels "pour" it into a winepress
~ Jesus "treadeth the winepress"


Look at all of the scriptures concerning the 'winepress' of the Wrath of God.

Do you understand what the phrase "treadeth the winepress" means - in terms of the definition of 'winepress' from ~2000 years ago?

Where does 'the Wrath of God' ultimately actually come from? Almighty God the Father - right?

Does this help you understand how that it is Jesus that 'dispenses' the Wrath of God upon the world?

 

[DP]

From my study of End Times prophecy, I have concluded that - between the 'end' of the Great Tribulation Period and the return of Christ - is a space of time that is at least 3.5 years long - during which the Two Witnesses give their testimony, etc. - out of which the Trumpet Events are brought about...

It is not the return of Christ that ends the Great Tribulation Period -- it is the Two Witnesses...

Impossible, because the 1260 days the two witnesses are given to prophesy against the beast is... tribulation timing, and the fact that the beast that ascends up out of the bottomless pit kills them after that 1260 days is another timeframe marker for the tribulation with the beast in power (Rev.11).

 

[DP]

"On the contrary -- it has everything to do with Christ's Ministry."

No, it doesn't. I has everything to do with men's doctrines, not God's Word.

 

[DP]

"Absolutely! The angels are involved... I agree!"

However, I endeavor to always consider what scripture-as-a-whole says about something...

....

Irrelevant, because in an earlier post you said Jesus was who pours out the final 7th Vial, when I showed you per Scripture it's an angel, one of the seven angels the seven vials are given to at the start.

The only point I could agree with you on those specific points of the 7th Vial is that it is God's cup of wrath upon the earth meant for the wicked.

And it is a last day event when Jesus returns. It is not stretched out with another 3.5 years period between the end of the trib and His return. You would easily know this if you had properly understood the OT prophets, and Apostle's Paul and Peter's teaching about that final day with the day of The Lord coming as a thief in the night.

 

[Ahwatukee]

From my study of End Times prophecy, I have concluded that - between the 'end' of the Great Tribulation Period and the return of Christ - is a space of time that is at least 3.5 years long - during which the Two Witnesses give their testimony, etc. - out of which the Trumpet Events are brought about...

It is not the return of Christ that ends the Great Tribulation Period -- it is the Two Witnesses...

Since there are only two options for the time of prophecy for the two witness, those being from the begging of the seven years to the middle of the seven or from the middle to the end. Here are my personal reasons as to why the two witnesses time of prophecy will be during the first 3 1/2 years to the middle:

1. In the middle of the seven years, the setting up of the abomination causes the desolation of Jerusalem/Judea. This event is represented in Mt.24:15-21 and Rev.12:6, 14. That being said, from the time that the abomination is set up, the inhabitants of Jerusalem and the area of Judea will flee out into the desert to that place prepared for Israel by God. My point being that, there would be no people of Israel in Jerusalem for the two witnesses to witness to during that last 3 1/2 years because they will have fled.

2. Scripture states that the two witnesses will prophecy for 1,260 days (3 1/2 years) and that at the end of their time of prophecy, the beast that comes up out of the Abyss will kill them (Rev.11:7). That said, the beast comes up out of at the sounding of the 5th trumpet when that star/angel opens the Abyss and those demonic beings come out. The sounding of the 5th trumpet takes place sometime just prior to the middle of the seven years. That being said, if the two witnesses were to begin their time of prophecy from the middle of the seven years, then the beast would have to wait 3 1/2 years to kill them and that because scripture states that no one can kill them until their time of prophecy is completed.

The return of the Lord to the earth to end the age has always been about Christ's return to bring and end to everything and not the two witnesses.

 

[KJV1611]

Daniel 12:1 KJV
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Am I correct in saying that verse 1 is the time of Jacob's trouble?

 

[Ahwatukee]

Daniel 12:1 KJV
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Am I correct in saying that verse 1 is the time of Jacob's trouble?

Yes, also called the great tribulation. Their trouble is that antichrist breaking his covenant with them and setting up the abomination in the holy place within the temple, which initiates the desolation where they flee out into the wilderness to that place prepared for her by God where they are cared for during that last 3 1/2 years.

"So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again. If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened"

The same event of Israel fleeing out into the desert for that last 3 1/2 years is spoken of in Rev.12:6,14:

"The woman fled into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days."

"When the dragon saw that he had been hurled to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child. The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the wilderness, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent’s reach."

 

[KJV1611]

Yes, also called the great tribulation. Their trouble is that antichrist breaking his covenant with them and setting up the abomination in the holy place within the temple, which initiates the desolation where they flee out into the wilderness to that place prepared for her by God where they are cared for during that last 3 1/2 years.

"So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again. If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened"

The same event of Israel fleeing out into the desert for that last 3 1/2 years is spoken of in Rev.12:6,14:

"The woman fled into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days."

"When the dragon saw that he had been hurled to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child. The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the wilderness, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent’s reach."

Is Israel delivered during the time of Jacob's trouble as Daniel 12:1 says?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Is Israel delivered during the time of Jacob's trouble as Daniel 12:1 says?

the time of Jacobs trouble is a time of severe persecution so Israel will repent. Paul says in romans 11 they will repent. and be saved.

So I would say if Israel is saved, and protected as Rev 12, then she must be delivered.