revelations babylon

[A-Omega]

Not according to Rev 11v8 (with Rev 14v8, 17v18) it's not...which clearly states 'the great city' is Jerusalem (which is also called Babylon, Sodom, Egypt and a harlot to describe its spiritual and moral condition under Antichrist during the Great Tribulation when He sits in the Temple (in Jerusalem) claiming that he is God, Dan 9v27, 11v31, 12v1,7, Matt 24v15,21, 2Thess 2v1-12, Rev 13v14-18)

One would have to be suffering from intellectual dishonesty to reject Scripture's own plain words!

Precisely.

I think a big mistake that has occurred in end times prophetic studies today is looking to the past or present world issues and events to determine scriptural meaning. But the Bible defines itself by itself. But I think if you study Old Testament scripture it is abundantly clear that Mystery Babylon is end times Jerusalem.Mystery babylon does not exist today. It is not a present day nation/church/system. It will be established in the end times, just like the antichrist, false prophet etc. will be all in the future. And Jerusalem, during the end times will be it. There is really no other Biblical explanation for it at all. I think from the moment the Antichrsit, who the Jews will receive as their Messiah, comes on the scene and makes his 7 year covenant, Israel will be come the biggest promoter of this man as the Savior of the world and be the center of his worship and deifiication. Thus the whole world will become "drunk" with fornication as they worship the false christ who is centered and operating out of Jerusalem.

 

[Katy-follower]

I found some very good videos here, which go through the book of Daniel in great detail. Worth watching!!.....


[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miKtEuvqJos[/video]

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTY-QkGcjUU[/video]

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkvhzEbtVEA[/video]

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLAffDtjjeE[/video]

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUb4xQT6bcI[/video]

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1orL6PqVOrs[/video]

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Not according to Rev 11v8 (with Rev 14v8, 17v18) it's not...which clearly states 'the great city' is Jerusalem (which is also called Babylon, Sodom, Egypt and a harlot to describe its spiritual and moral condition under Antichrist during the Great Tribulation when He sits in the Temple (in Jerusalem) claiming that he is God, Dan 9v27, 11v31, 12v1,7, Matt 24v15,21, 2Thess 2v1-12, Rev 13v14-18)

One would have to be suffering from intellectual dishonesty to reject Scripture's own plain words!

Nice try. But Babylon can't be Jerusalem. Jerusalem does not fit the defenition, because she doe snot have the characteristics laid out of what Babylon does when it comes to world events.

 

[A-Omega]

Nice try. But Babylon can't be Jerusalem. Jerusalem does not fit the defenition, because she doe snot have the characteristics laid out of what Babylon does when it comes to world events.

Jerusalem does not have those qualities TODAY. Revelation is not about today, it's about the future end times. Jerusalem will certainly have all those qualities. Just like we don't have to look at the President, Henry Kissinger or Prince William and say "antichrist!" we also do not have to look at present day institutions to find Mystery Babylon. Just going by scripture we can see that end time Jerusalem is Mystery Babylon.

Simply put — Israel will believe the Antichrist is the Messiah and receive him as their ruler (in a covenant that will start the 70th week). We know Jesus The Lord Himself said that Israel would receive the Antichrist. Furthermore, look at the passages regarding Mystery Babylon. Many prophecy experts and writers will look to the present world for examples that can fulfill the identification of Mystery Babylon (i.e., the Roman Catholic Church). However, I do not believe that Mystery Babylon exists yet because none of the things in those chapters of Revelation have come to pass yet (meaning the Antichrist is not even in power so his city of operation would not be in full swing).

Looking at how Revelation describes the whore, notice the colors she is “decked” with are “purple and scarlet.” I would urge you to go to an online Bible and do a word search of “purple and scarlet.” Outside of Revelation there is really only one place you’ll find numerous references to it: Exodus 25-30- God’s specific instructions for the operation of the Tabernacle (which were also used for the Temple). The Harlot has on her forehead: “MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.” In Exodus 28 The Levitical High Priest was instructed by God to put on on his forehead: “HOLINESS TO THE LORD.” (and please note the all caps is in the Bible for both!). And then we can look at the color of items in the temple. The curtains are to be purple and scarlet. The ephod is purple and scarlet. The door of the tent is purple and scarlet. The “curious girdle” of the ephod is…purple and scarlet. And there are MANY more examples just in those 5 chapters of Exodus.


Finally, I would also recommend the same thing about a word search for the items that are imported into Mystery Babylon in Revelation 18. (i.e., fine linen, precious stones, purple, scarlet, ivory, frankincence, etc.). You will find almost all these same items listed in Exodus chapters 25-30 or with reference to Solomon’s construction of the temple. Why? Again, these are items all needed for the operation of the temple, specifically instructed by The Lord. I do not believe that these are just random “luxury goods” but are instead specifically needed for the operation of the temple. Even cinnamon is listed in Revelation 18 and that is an item specifically required for temple operation! And these items are coming IN to Mystery Babylon. So much so, that merchants of the world are making a lot of money off of their sale. Thus I believe the Antichrist will not only be in Israel, but for the first 3 1/2 years the temple will be in daily operation according to Levitical law (which again makes sense since we know Israel will receive the Antichrist as their Messiah).



This is the simplest way to identify Mystery Babylon to me using just scripture compared to scripture. And thus I believe the temple will be rebuilt and the Antichrist will sit in that temple at the midpoint of the 70th week and proclaim himself god as prophesied by 2 Thessalonians. And I think there will be an abomination set up in the “holy place” which is the temple (Exod 26), as prophesied by Daniel and then Jesus in Matthew 24.


I know many will disagree with this but I only ask that you just consider plain meaning of scripture and see all the obvious refereences to the temple instructions of Exodus and Solomon's temple over and over again in Revelation 18 and it becomes obvious Babylon the Great is Jerusalem.

 

[jb]

Nice try. But Babylon can't be Jerusalem. Jerusalem does not fit the defenition, because she doe snot have the characteristics laid out of what Babylon does when it comes to world events.

You are unteachable!

 

[peterT]

Babylon is the name given to the apostate religious system which originated at Babel, and spread to the world. She is called the harlot because she is a false bride. She is a system which attempts to take the place of the true Bride of God. She is the pagain system which Israel continually got Caught playing with, and led to her demise over and over. With it religious sacramental system, tradition. Spiritual priests and grand temples. and other aspects which are worldwide in scope and has great influence on nations and peoples, including their leaders.

She will be destroyed by the final beast before the beast declares himself to be the messiah by committing the abomination of desolation spoken of by daniel the prophet. And mentioned by Christ.

She is loved, and the world morns over her demise

Hi eternally-gratefull.

I am not show if it originated in Babylon, as she (the harlot) was riding a seven headed beast, so she was around before the days of Babylon, before Babylon was the Assyrian empire and before that was the Egyptian Empire. I think BABYLON THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS is just her nickname and she has been around from the beginning.

The “five are fallen”. Is
1)Eygipt
2) Assyria
3) Babylon
4) Medo-Persia
5) Greece
The “one is” is 6)Rome in the time when john wrote Revelation.
“one is not yet come” 7) the last days.

love in Jesus.

from peter

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You are unteachable!

I could say the same about you

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Jerusalem does not have those qualities TODAY. Revelation is not about today, it's about the future end times. Jerusalem will certainly have all those qualities. Just like we don't have to look at the President, Henry Kissinger or Prince William and say "antichrist!" we also do not have to look at present day institutions to find Mystery Babylon. Just going by scripture we can see that end time Jerusalem is Mystery Babylon.

1. Babylon is a harlot.
2. A harlot is a false bride. or attempts to take the place of a bride
3. Israel's crime was playing the harlot with foreign Gods, these Gods Isreal played with originated with Babylon,
4. Jerusalem has been a city the world has loved to hate since IJudah was destroyed. Right now there are three religions fighting for it.
5. Jerusalem is the city God (Christ) will set up his throne, The armies of the Antichrist will surround Jerusalem (the Holy City) at the last battle, to try to destroy the woman Israel) . When Christ returns, he will destroy those armies surrounding the Holy CIty. and then set up his throne.
6. God is not going to destroy jersualem, why would he? It is HIS CITY.

Simply put — Israel will believe the Antichrist is the Messiah and receive him as their ruler (in a covenant that will start the 70th week). We know Jesus The Lord Himself said that Israel would receive the Antichrist. Furthermore, look at the passages regarding Mystery Babylon. Many prophecy experts and writers will look to the present world for examples that can fulfill the identification of Mystery Babylon (i.e., the Roman Catholic Church). However, I do not believe that Mystery Babylon exists yet because none of the things in those chapters of Revelation have come to pass yet (meaning the Antichrist is not even in power so his city of operation would not be in full swing).

The Antichrist is not babylon. She supports and helps give the antichrist his power. He must destroy her, because she thinks she is the true bride. And would not recieve him as her messiah. And has enough power and influence she could possibly destroy him.

Looking at how Revelation describes the whore, notice the colors she is “decked” with are “purple and scarlet.” I would urge you to go to an online Bible and do a word search of “purple and scarlet.” Outside of Revelation there is really only one place you’ll find numerous references to it: Exodus 25-30- God’s specific instructions for the operation of the Tabernacle (which were also used for the Temple). The Harlot has on her forehead: “MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.” In Exodus 28 The Levitical High Priest was instructed by God to put on on his forehead: “HOLINESS TO THE LORD.” (and please note the all caps is in the Bible for both!). And then we can look at the color of items in the temple. The curtains are to be purple and scarlet. The ephod is purple and scarlet. The door of the tent is purple and scarlet. The “curious girdle” of the ephod is…purple and scarlet. And there are MANY more examples just in those 5 chapters of Exodus.

Purple and scarlet is also the color of royalty. The color of kings. With whom worship the harlot.

Finally, I would also recommend the same thing about a word search for the items that are imported into Mystery Babylon in Revelation 18. (i.e., fine linen, precious stones, purple, scarlet, ivory, frankincence, etc.). You will find almost all these same items listed in Exodus chapters 25-30 or with reference to Solomon’s construction of the temple. Why? Again, these are items all needed for the operation of the temple, specifically instructed by The Lord. I do not believe that these are just random “luxury goods” but are instead specifically needed for the operation of the temple. Even cinnamon is listed in Revelation 18 and that is an item specifically required for temple operation! And these items are coming IN to Mystery Babylon. So much so, that merchants of the world are making a lot of money off of their sale. Thus I believe the Antichrist will not only be in Israel, but for the first 3 1/2 years the temple will be in daily operation according to Levitical law (which again makes sense since we know Israel will receive the Antichrist as their Messiah).

The antichrist stops levitical offering. And declares himself messiah. He will rule in Jerusalem, and the temple he will take. He will not destroy the city for which he will take power.

This is the simplest way to identify Mystery Babylon to me using just scripture compared to scripture. And thus I believe the temple will be rebuilt and the Antichrist will sit in that temple at the midpoint of the 70th week and proclaim himself god as prophesied by 2 Thessalonians. And I think there will be an abomination set up in the “holy place” which is the temple (Exod 26), as prophesied by Daniel and then Jesus in Matthew 24.


I know many will disagree with this but I only ask that you just consider plain meaning of scripture and see all the obvious refereences to the temple instructions of Exodus and Solomon's temple over and over again in Revelation 18 and it becomes obvious Babylon the Great is Jerusalem.

try this; I think your looking at it the wrong way

Who is the harlot?

1. Bears the representation of a harlot ( rev 17: 1-2, 15 - 16. It claimed to be christs bride, but had fallen from its pure purpose and had become a harlot. Isreal was Christ's bride. But she instead worship pagan Gods and Not God. God said she played the harlot. with the false bride. and was punished for it.

2. a leader in ecclesiastical affairs. rev 17 : 2. 5. Spiritual fornication in scripture is an adherance to a false religious system. "whom the kings of the earth committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth were made drunk with the wine of her fornication.” So this is a religion which is worldwide in scope. Jerusalem is not this. nor will it ever be. The world will never endorse judaism. or islam.

3. the system is a leader in political affairs ( rev 17:3 ) it is seen to be controlling the beast for which it sits. Jerusalem will never have political influence at least not tunil the Antichrist takes power in her. By then the harlot is destroyed.

4 the system has become very rich and influential ( rev 17: 4) Jerusalem might be rich. But her riches do not influence world affairs.

5. The system represents the stage of development of christiondom that was hithertoo unrevieled ( rev 17: 5) in that it was called the " mystery " The world thinks she is real. But the mystery is she will be revealed to be the false bride, not the true bride. This again could not be jerusalem.

6. the system has been a great persecutor of the saints. (rev 17: 6 ). She has killed many saints in her time. Many in the name of Christ were martyred under her reign. Again, would not be jerusalem

7. the system is an organised system of worldwide scope ( rev 17 : 15) Jerusalem has never been a center of wa worldwide religion. and never will be until Christ returnes. Yet the harlot has a religion which sits on many nations as they follow in her harlotry

8. The system will be destroyed by the beast, the head of the roman coalition, so that his supremace may not be threatened ( rev 17: 16 - 17 ) Jertusalem will never be a threat to him. In fact, he will take jersualem and make it his own. not destroy it.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You are unteachable!

ps. This is my favorite line of study, I have studied it for years. And yes. I have studied deeply whether or not jersualem is babylon. I grew up thinking the US was babylon, a highly held belief, because it was what I was raised to believe. No one has of yet has shown me anything i have not seen or studied before. Not to say someone will not. if they do I will study it.

 

[iamsoandso]

Babylon is not Israel,,,,,Isreal is the only of the kingdoms that did rule from the great river of Egypt to the river Euphrates,,,that did not exist in the year ad96,,,,,,so she was and in the year ad70,, she was scattered and did not exist so in ad 96 "was not" and in 1948 was brought back "yet is",,,,,,,,,

 

[Katy-follower]

(The Beast with 7 heads - a religion)


Rev 17: "There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come. And when he comes, he must continue a short time. The beast that was, and is not, is himself also the eighth, and is of the seven, and is going to perdition"

The 7 kings are 7 popes.

So the 7th pope (current Pope, Benedikt XVI) will reign for a short time (he will either die or step down)
The 8th pope will replace the others and will be just like them. He will be the last Pope!



Rev 13:3: "I saw a beast rising up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and on his horns ten crowns, and on his heads a blasphemous name. And I saw one of his heads as if it had been mortally wounded, and his deadly wound was healed. And all the world marveled and followed the beast"
A Lateran treaty was signed in 1929 between the Italian Government and the Vatican re-establishing the political power and diplomatic standing of the Catholic Church, which had been lost when Italy seized Rome, the last of the Papal States, on September 20th, 1870.

These 7 popes came into power after the wound was healed in 1929, the birth of the Vatican State.


(The Beast from the earth = the US government)

 

[A-Omega]

So you guys seriously think that Mystery Babylon having the same colors as over 10 items in the temple, having a name on her forehead in all caps just like the high priest of the temple, and importing items of which all were specifically outlined by God for temple use, is just coincidence?? Seriously???

Wow. I think a big mistake is looking in the world to find an interpretation of scripture. This is not how the Bible instructs. We are to compare "spiritual things" with spiritual. As in scripture compared to scripture. For some reason we can accept all of Revelation being in the future but Mystery Babylon has to exist now. It just doesn't make sense.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So you guys seriously think that Mystery Babylon having the same colors as over 10 items in the temple, having a name on her forehead in all caps just like the high priest of the temple, and importing items of which all were specifically outlined by God for temple use, is just coincidence?? Seriously???

there are alot of coincidences in scripture. yet not all truths follow those things

Wow. I think a big mistake is looking in the world to find an interpretation of scripture. This is not how the Bible instructs. We are to compare "spiritual things" with spiritual. As in scripture compared to scripture. For some reason we can accept all of Revelation being in the future but Mystery Babylon has to exist now. It just doesn't make sense.

why can't babylon exist now? You think all those "characteristics' of babylon I mentioned will just happen in a few short years? Now that makes no sense.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

double post

 

[SantoSubito]

(The Beast with 7 heads - a religion)


Rev 17: "There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come. And when he comes, he must continue a short time. The beast that was, and is not, is himself also the eighth, and is of the seven, and is going to perdition"

The 7 kings are 7 popes.

So the 7th pope (current Pope, Benedikt XVI) will reign for a short time (he will either die or step down)
The 8th pope will replace the others and will be just like them. He will be the last Pope!



Rev 13:3: "I saw a beast rising up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and on his horns ten crowns, and on his heads a blasphemous name. And I saw one of his heads as if it had been mortally wounded, and his deadly wound was healed. And all the world marveled and followed the beast"
A Lateran treaty was signed in 1929 between the Italian Government and the Vatican re-establishing the political power and diplomatic standing of the Catholic Church, which had been lost when Italy seized Rome, the last of the Papal States, on September 20th, 1870.

These 7 popes came into power after the wound was healed in 1929, the birth of the Vatican State.


(The Beast from the earth = the US government)

I'm curious as to how you'll reformulate this if Pope Benedict XVI either reigns for a long period or we get to the 9th pope since Lateran.

 

[SantoSubito]

So you guys seriously think that Mystery Babylon having the same colors as over 10 items in the temple, having a name on her forehead in all caps just like the high priest of the temple, and importing items of which all were specifically outlined by God for temple use, is just coincidence?? Seriously???

Wow. I think a big mistake is looking in the world to find an interpretation of scripture. This is not how the Bible instructs. We are to compare "spiritual things" with spiritual. As in scripture compared to scripture. For some reason we can accept all of Revelation being in the future but Mystery Babylon has to exist now. It just doesn't make sense.

Me and you may not agree on a lot but we do agree here. Rome isn't Babylon.

 

[iamsoandso]

yes ,,,we agree,,,,,,,,,,,,,,"one is",,Rome was the kingdom that was in power when this was written in ad96,,,,,,,,,,,,now go back to dan. 2,,,,,,,,,,"you are the head of gold",,,,,,,,,,,,,notice Daniel does not begin with the beginning of the worlds history he begins at the kingdom of "Nebuchadnezzar",,,,and tells him he is the"head of gold",,,,,,,,,,,,so he does not mention the former kingdoms in this (Egypt,Assyria,,,Israel) ect.,,,,,,,,,,,he begins at "Babylon the kingdom of Nebuchadnezzar",,,,,,,,,,,and then goes forward to the end,,,,,,,,,,,,,and notice in the rev. it shows you the "7 heads from the beginning till the end",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,so chapter two in the vision,,,,,,,,,,is not from the first kingdom(beast),,,,,,,,,,,,but from(Babylon on)untill the end,,,,,,,,Daniel ask,,,
"how long" will we be?,,,,,,"70',,,,years from the captivity,,,,,,,,,,,,,,not what was from the beginning till the end (Adam till the end),,,,,,,so the kingdoms who ruled before the captivity of Israel in Babylon were not given,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,but "how long",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,will we be in captivity was answered,,,,,,,,

 

[iamsoandso]

not the answer was not of the history of the earth,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,but of the "70 weeks",,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[iamsoandso]

ok i take one "not back"

 

[iamsoandso]

now in rev 1;19,,,,,,,yow saw,that is,,,and must shortly come to pass,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,"you start form the beginning of world history and go to the end of world history" ,,,,all seven heads,,,,,,,,,,"the head of gold was not the first kingdom",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,where does dan. two fit??????????????Egypt,Israel,Assyria,,,Babylon greece,,,,rome,,,,,,,,,meo-persia,,,ect?????????????,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,daniel did not start from the beggining till the end he began with Nebuchadnezzar and then said,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,