Romans 7 man not saved.

[SolidGround]

The reply is to beloved SolidGround and only the second paragraph is about you, who posted 'likes' to the blunt comment SolidGround made, upon my earlier reply, without any Scripture reference at all.

So, how can anyone fully know and agree that the comment made by SolidGround to disregard mine, is just?

You agree with SolidGround who boldly comment that no believers use Romans chapter 7 at all, as an excuse and refugee for their lingering sins in them?

i was one of them and am i alone in this confession?

Sin doesn't just disappear from a believer's life or neither JESUS will perform a magic to erase all of sin in them.

After being divinely washed, sin can have a come back, if a believer's mind set is once again to the things of and walk according to the carnal/flesh. They are still Christian whose mind set is also still to the things of and walk according to the SPIRIT but in divided attention and serving only partially for the Kingdom. They are still gifted and are still witnessing to others for the Kingdom, but remain partially lost and in bondage to sin once again. They also are able to find refugee in Apostle Paul's Romans chapter 7 confession, in order to be excused and be safe and are innocent for now, for them sin is the actual culprit.

i was once a believer in this category, until i was able to be taught and see Romans chapter 8.

And also sin have no power and can fade away and be forsaken, if a believer's mind set are on the things of and walk according to the HOLY SPIRIT. In fact they do not have to find any refugee in any Scripture, in order to cover for sin, but their practices to the things of and walk according to the SPIRIT proves their faith. And they are the ones who are experiencing Scripture righteousness of GOD' Spiritual Law of life of the New Covenant of CHRIST and by the Help of the HOLY SPIRIT, is being fulfilled in their lives.

i am acknowledging and confessing and working out with CHRIST, in order to come back to these of spirit and life 'narrow road' once again.

If i am still an alien in my confessions, then these are only for me to work out on, as how i have been highlighted by the Help of the HOLY SPIRIT, about a hypocrite and a bad witnessing Christian's well being, before the judgement day to come to all and very soon.

i hope and pray in the name of LORD JESUS CHRIST, to the FATHER, that everyone in the family will be and is ready.

I think we must have misunderstood each other.

I agree that some evil men have entered the church, and have preached 'licence to sin', and other such twisted doctrine.

They twist good doctrine into whatever they want. They twist Scripture too.

This twisting doesn't mean that the original is false.

So that is where we seem to disagree. I do believe that the Romans 7 man is saved,
however this struggle that we see is not an excuse. It is struggle that requires resistance, not simply giving in.

I'm sorry that I came across the way I did. I didn't mean it to sound like I was denying your point entirely.

 

[gotime]

Yes, we are not under the law but the see-saw battle continues for us christians...at least for us normal christians...no super saint here.

according to the scriptures quoted those who still identify with the Romans 7 man are under law still.

The battle continues no doubt, but we do not have to "see-saw"

Think about it, You have no doubt in your Christian walk ovecome some sins in your life that you no longer do.

Can God not do that for all your sins?

What precious promises we have in Jesus:

1Jn_4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Jud 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

Eph 3:20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,

2Co 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds
2Co 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

And one could keep on going. why is it when someone suggests we can be totally free from sinning in Christ people think its works based? or impossible?

Is anything impossible for God? Of course not.

Did you overcome the sins you have in your life by works or by Faith? By Faith.

Then if nothing is impossible for God then the only thing holding you back from having victory over the rest of your sins is your Faith.

Will we always have the flesh to resist? Yes but in the power of Christ we can resist every time.

Take what you already know, you have overcome different sins in your life by Faith in Christ Jesus, Let that build your faith to expect more help, greater Power to overcome and closer trust. See what happens.

Surely God will withhold no good thing from those who are bought by the precious blood of Jesus.

 

[Jason0047]

I don't think so

8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

When was Paul alive without the law? Answer, after he met Jesus on the road to Damascus.
When was the power of sin broken? Because it had to be broken in order for it to be revived. Answer when he met Jesus on the road to Damascus.

Read Romans 5 about how sin reigned from Adam to Moses. This is what Paul is talking about. He is talking about when the Commandment came (.I.e the Law of Moses) sin revived and he died. In other words he is speaking about his jewish history of his people.

 

[Kerry]

Read Romans 5 about how sin reigned from Adam to Moses. This is what Paul is talking about. He is talking about when the Commandment came (.I.e the Law of Moses) sin revived and he died. In other words he is speaking about his jewish history of his people.

He had the commandment when he was Saul did he not?

Dude, they all lived under sin, in order for Paul to say that sin revived it had to be broken at some point. doncha think and I don't think that law did that.

 

[gotime]

Go, I see what angle your taking and I would have done the same. But, look the theme or focal point of this passage of scripture is the only way you can live for God is by placing your faith in the work of the cross and nothing else. If your faith is detoured into something else. Be it law, 40 days of purpose, a Daniel fast, or cutting grass at the church or handing out water bottles when it's 400 degrees outside, or helping the poor, or providing shelter for needy children, or taking elders to the doctor, or calling the police on your neighbor who is beating his wife.

These are all good things (accept the 40 days of purpose) but don't the wicked do these as well. The only thing that separates us is the cross. Just as OT saints waited on the cross, we look to the cross. Our works are as filthy rags to God and He will not accept them. The only thing He will accept is faith in the work of His son.

If we deviate from that, we will find ourselves bound by sin. Just as Paul teaches. Many preachers ( I even heard Kennith Hagin say this, we need to get past the cross and step up to seated by the right hand of the Father) are trying to push the kingdom age into now and it is not possible. We are flesh and even if walk in the Spirit. we are taunted by the flesh. That's why you can't find a perfect church.

We have been redeemed in spirit, our minds are being renewed by the Word of God (Jesus). But our bodies have not yet been redeemed. The price has been paid, but the transaction is not complete and will only be completed at the rapture.

Hey Kerry,

Amen to Christ and him crucified being the point. I have tried to make that point in here. Christ is what brings us out of the Romans 7 experience and into the Romans 8 experience.

I am trying to get People to see that Christ offers so much more than up and down religion. Jesus' blood covers all we need to live Godly in Christ Jesus.

As I have said in another post, If you have overcome any sin in your walk with Jesus then let that build your faith in Jesus so that you can overcome more.

There is no sin too strong for Jesus Grace. For where sin does abound Grace abounds much more.

If nothing is impossible for God then why do we limit what He can do in us by faith?

If God can empower us to overcome some sins so we do them no more, then why do we lack faith to believe that that same power in Jesus can give us complete victory over the flesh?

or are there sins that are stronger than Grace?

Is the Flesh mightier than the Spirit?

No Grace is stronger and the Spirit mightier and If we would allow our faith to take hold of all the promises of God then we would be able to resist the flesh 100% of the time. This wont happen over night but it will happen as we grow to trust.

I see it like a child, The child says " Father can you carry me over these prickles in the grass?" and the Father carries Him.

That child would then think hmmm "My Father can carry me over the prickles, I bet He could carry me over the mud also" So he asks and His Father carries him.

Then the Boy comes to a body of water and thinks I can never get across this that is not possible I will accept that here I will fall.

No A child believe that because His Father carried him over the prickles and the mud, he says. "I'll ask my Father because He can carry me over anything nothing is impossible for my Father."

So it is with those who allow their Faith to Grow as they experience the care and power and love of the Father through Jesus.

 

[Atwood]

Most Christians are wrong for believing that Romans chapter 7 is talking about Paul struggling with sin as a Christian.

Jason, you make a number of assertions which are just that -- no Bible proof.

In Romans chapter 5 we learn, "For by one man sin entered the world and by one man many shall be justified."

Now, under the Mosaic Law there was an accounting and those under that Law had to bring their sacrifices accordingly. Prior to the Mosaic law, the Patriarchs offered sacrifices to God, but not as a result of particular sins–not because God said to them if you do such and such sin then you have to offer such and such sacrifices. The sacrifices of the Patriarchs were offered based upon faith, not law. Which explains the context of Romans 5:13.

Jason, you are just saying things there. I have no idea how you would prove that. Certainly Rom 5:13 doesn't prove your theory. Nor do I see any connection whatsoever with Rom 7.

In other words, the Old Testament saint living before the Law was justified by following Romans 8:1.

Rom 8:1 doesn't give a way of justification. And it says nothing about OT saints, but those who are in Christ Jesus. It announces that the Christian is not condemned -- & the most recent condemnation was the frustration of Rom 7.

This point of the Law in Romans 5 is made in Romans chapter 7. Compare Romans 7:8-10 with Romans 5:12-14 and Romans 5:20.

How you could say that is beyond me. Rom 5 speaks of the fact that we are sinners because in Adam & conversely righteous because in Christ. The problem in Rom 7 is the coming of the Law which caused dormant sin to come back to life. I see no connection with Rom 5.

#2. This passage is an answer to the question “Did that which was good [the Law], then, become death to me?” (Romans 7:13) Paul is not primarily interested here in discussing anyone's struggle with sin. He is explaining how the Old Testament Law – good in itself – was used by sin to bring death to pre-Christians.

In a sense the passage is an apology for the Law, how it is good. But in fact it certainly does discuss a losing struggle with sin in the flesh. He says he was alive apart from the law once; then the commandment came, sin revived (had been dead, but now lived again) and then the carnal state ensues.

#3. Paul knows that Christians struggle with sin; after all, many of his letters are written to help churches deal with sin. But he discusses the Christian struggle with sin in the next chapter (Romans 8:10-14). His conclusions about the struggle there do not seem to me to be consistent if chapter 7 is also about the Christian struggle with sin.

Rom 7 has defeat when the unaided Christian ego attempts to do good. He says that when he sins, it is no longer I, but sin dwelling in me, that is in my flesh. An unsaved person does not have two ego's, one of them good. The unsaved person can't say that the real me is not sinning. Rom 8 has the Holy Spirit helping the Christian so he can have victory.

#4. Paul’s only positive description of the “me” in this passage is elsewhere applied to Jews, not Christians. “I agree with the Law, that the Law is good” (Romans 7:16) and “I delight in the law of God in my inner man” (Romans 7:22). But this is more in line with Paul’s description of Jews: “If you call yourself a Jew and rely on the Law” (Romans 2:17). In Romans, Christians have “died to the Law” (Romans 7:4) and thus “delight in the Law” is not most naturally applied to Christians.

Law is here considered as the expression of God's will. Of course the Christian delights in it. We delight in all the Word of God. The Pharisee delighted in manipulating around the law and not doing the law, but the traditions. That is not the only positive of the me. There is a me who does not sin while the me of the flesh sins. "It is no longer I that do it." Another positive is that "I was once alive apart from the Law." No unsaved Pharisee could say that truthfully.

#5. Paul’s negative descriptions of the “me” in the passage are elsewhere applied to Jews, not Christians.

“I am fleshly, sold into bondage to sin” (Romans 7:14). Compare to “we were in the flesh” (Romans 7:5); “we were freed from sin” (Romans 6:18); “we were slaves to sin” (Romans 6:20); and “you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit” (Romans 8:9).​

You seem to confuse being after the flesh / carnal and being in the flesh. Flesh is not just Jewish; it is the entire Adamic human nature. The Christian ever experiences the flesh lusting vs the Spirit (Gal 5). He may be carnal as in 1 Cor. Of course when the Christian sins that is something he has in common with the unsaved person. But no unsaved person can rightly say, "It is no longer I who sin."

“But I see another law… making me a prisoner of the law of sin” (Romans 7:23). Compare to “but now, freed from sin and enslaved to God” (Romans 6:22); and “the law of the Spirit of life has set you free from the law of sin and death” (Romans 8:2).

If Paul says that Christian are no longer in the flesh and are no longer slaves or prisoners of sin, then it seems to make the most sense to say that he is talking about his pre-Christian experience when he was Jew here in Romans 7:14-25.​

As Rom 6 indicates, the Christian can present Himself to God or to sin for service.

Pre-Christian is impossible. for being alive apart from the flesh is only true of the Christian. And for sin to be dormant is only Christian. And for sin being previously dormant then come to life again, is only true of the Christian.\

Rom 7 comes in the heart of a section of Romans on the Christian life. The unbeliever was left behind mostly at the end of Romans 4. Certainly Rom 6 & 8 concern the believer. Certainly Rom 7 starts & ends with the believer. The dual antagonistic roles within the man of Rom 7 can only be true of a believer: "So then I of myself with the mind, indeed, serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.​

Indeed, may the Lord bless you.

 

[Kerry]

Hey Kerry,

Amen to Christ and him crucified being the point. I have tried to make that point in here. Christ is what brings us out of the Romans 7 experience and into the Romans 8 experience.

I am trying to get People to see that Christ offers so much more than up and down religion. Jesus' blood covers all we need to live Godly in Christ Jesus.

As I have said in another post, If you have overcome any sin in your walk with Jesus then let that build your faith in Jesus so that you can overcome more.

There is no sin too strong for Jesus Grace. For where sin does abound Grace abounds much more.

If nothing is impossible for God then why do we limit what He can do in us by faith?

If God can empower us to overcome some sins so we do them no more, then why do we lack faith to believe that that same power in Jesus can give us complete victory over the flesh?

or are there sins that are stronger than Grace?

Is the Flesh mightier than the Spirit?

No Grace is stronger and the Spirit mightier and If we would allow our faith to take hold of all the promises of God then we would be able to resist the flesh 100% of the time. This wont happen over night but it will happen as we grow to trust.

I see it like a child, The child says " Father can you carry me over these prickles in the grass?" and the Father carries Him.

That child would then think hmmm "My Father can carry me over the prickles, I bet He could carry me over the mud also" So he asks and His Father carries him.

Then the Boy comes to a body of water and thinks I can never get across this that is not possible I will accept that here I will fall.

No A child believe that because His Father carried him over the prickles and the mud, he says. "I'll ask my Father because He can carry me over anything nothing is impossible for my Father."

So it is with those who allow their Faith to Grow as they experience the care and power and love of the Father through Jesus.

That is why I push the cross so strongly. You don't know how many Christians i interact with that do not understand and they are bound by sin and hate it and don't know what to do. They have been imprisoned for drugs or are at rehab. What does that tell you. It tells you that the church is failing and is no longer preaching the cross, but rather a self help message and that's why I am here and holding a strong line on the cross.

 

[gotime]

If find Christians today to be like Israel of Old.

They say God bring plagues on Egypt.
Then they were freed from Egypt through the blood of the Passover lamb
Then they saw the destruction and salvation in the red sea.
They were given water and bread from heaven.

Yet when it came to cross over into the promised land they said, its too hard, it can't be done, its impossible.

So it is today, we have seen the signs and wonders done in Jesus,
we have been freed from the devil by Jesus our Passover lamb.
We through the water have been freed from the enemy that would enslave us/sin.

Yet all I here is, its impossible to overcome sin fully, its too hard, it can't be done.

Is there a God in Israel or not?

 

[gotime]

That is why I push the cross so strongly. You don't know how many Christians i interact with that do not understand and they are bound by sin and hate it and don't know what to do. They have been imprisoned for drugs or are at rehab. What does that tell you. It tells you that the church is failing and is no longer preaching the cross, but rather a self help message and that's why I am here and holding a strong line on the cross.

You are right on the money here. amen.

Jesus saves fully.

Joh_12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

 

[fredjames]

And so, we are all clear now, about our spiritual lesson of faith and practice that our mind set and work out according to, the HOLY SPIRIT is just, in order to reap true life.

And there is also a similarity and revelation, between Romans chapter 8 and Galatians chapter 5;

1. For just one similarity, example - Romans 8;7,8, and Galatians 5;17

2. And for just one revelation, example - Romans 8;4-8, and Galatians 5;16-25

Thank you, dearly beloved crossnote and gotime for your sharing and agreement.

May the Good GOD, the FATHER of our LORD JESUS CHRIST, bless you with HIS kindness and peace.

 

[crossnote]

according to the scriptures quoted those who still identify with the Romans 7 man are under law still.

The battle continues no doubt, but we do not have to "see-saw"

Think about it, You have no doubt in your Christian walk ovecome some sins in your life that you no longer do.

Can God not do that for all your sins?

What precious promises we have in Jesus:

1Jn_4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Jud 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

Eph 3:20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,

2Co 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds
2Co 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

And one could keep on going. why is it when someone suggests we can be totally free from sinning in Christ people think its works based? or impossible?

Is anything impossible for God? Of course not.

Did you overcome the sins you have in your life by works or by Faith? By Faith.

Then if nothing is impossible for God then the only thing holding you back from having victory over the rest of your sins is your Faith.

Will we always have the flesh to resist? Yes but in the power of Christ we can resist every time.

Take what you already know, you have overcome different sins in your life by Faith in Christ Jesus, Let that build your faith to expect more help, greater Power to overcome and closer trust. See what happens.

Surely God will withhold no good thing from those who are bought by the precious blood of Jesus.

Do you successfully resist every time?
Do you win every battle?
Do you ever contend with doubts?
Do you love the Lord all the time with all your heart, mind and soul?
Do you care and help your neighbor every chance you get?

So you have arrived? Well, I haven't and wont pretend to either.

 

[Atwood]

Read Romans 5 about how sin reigned from Adam to Moses. This is what Paul is talking about. He is talking about when the Commandment came (.I.e the Law of Moses) sin revived and he died. In other words he is speaking about his jewish history of his people.

I was alive once apart from the Law. How does Jewish history get in there? History is not mentioned. Sin was not dormant before the Law was given. Sin never died before the law was given. There is no warrant to make Paul = national Israel. The commandment that came in context is "Thou shalt not lust." But that commandment resulted in lusting. They were doing a lot of lusting before Moses got to the camp with the 10 commandments. Jason, this is just too far-fetched. Rom 7 is not speaking about God not reckoning sin before the law. Rom 7 has sin itself dormant and temporarily dead. That is only true for the Christian in fellowship with the Lord Jesus.

 

[Kerry]

I was alive once apart from the Law. How does Jewish history get in there? History is not mentioned. Sin was not dormant before the Law was given. Sin never died before the law was given. There is no warrant to make Paul = national Israel. The commandment that came in context is "Thou shalt not lust." But that commandment resulted in lusting. They were doing a lot of lusting before Moses got to the camp with the 10 commandments. Jason, this is just too far-fetched. Rom 7 is not speaking about God not reckoning sin before the law. Rom 7 has sin itself dormant and temporarily dead. That is only true for the Christian in fellowship with the Lord Jesus.

Atwood, they will keep denying to prove their doctrine and push truth to the side and harm many people so they can stand and say look at me.

 

[Jason0047]

He had the commandment when he was Saul did he not?

Dude, they all lived under sin, in order for Paul to say that sin revived it had to be broken at some point. doncha think and I don't think that law did that.

How can he be alive without the Law and then later have it revive with the Commandment?

 

[Atwood]

How can he be alive without the Law and then later have it revive with the Commandment?

Jason, that is the key verse to understanding the Carnal state of Rom 7. The question is, how did sin which was dormant come back to life? The answer is, when the commandment came, sin revived. The commandment in context is "thou shalt not lust/covet."

The Galatians answer is

I have been crucified with Christ, and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me. The old I is dormant, even if vociferating its opinions. He has put on Christ and made no provision for the flesh to satisfy its inevitable lusts.

And the life which I live in the flesh, I live by faith in the Son of God Who loved me and died for me. That is living apart from the law.

I do not make void the grace of God, for if righteousness is by the Law, then Christ died in vain.

Back to Rom7

And I was alive apart from the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died; and the commandment, which was unto life, this I found to be unto death: for sin, finding occasion, through the commandment beguiled me, and through it slew me.

Paul had been alive, but through the commandment sin slew him. This is an experience in the life of a believer. Sin doesn't slay an unregenerate person, for he is already dead spiritually.

 

[Atwood]

Atwood, they will keep denying to prove their doctrine and push truth to the side and harm many people so they can stand and say look at me.

Well, I will cut them some slack on this one, as I think Rom 7 is one of those passages in Paul that Peter says are hard to understand. Though when you look at it carefully, it must be a saved man in the carnal state.

 

[Atwood]

That is why I push the cross so strongly. You don't know how many Christians i interact with that do not understand and they are bound by sin and hate it and don't know what to do. They have been imprisoned for drugs or are at rehab. What does that tell you. It tells you that the church is failing and is no longer preaching the cross, but rather a self help message and that's why I am here and holding a strong line on the cross.

When you say the cross, do you mean "Jesus Christ and Him crucified," that is, primary focus on the person of Christ, rather than an object? Perhaps you mean that you focus on Christ in His crucifixion?

 

[gotime]

Do you successfully resist every time?
Do you win every battle?
Do you ever contend with doubts?
Do you love the Lord all the time with all your heart, mind and soul?
Do you care and help your neighbor every chance you get?

So you have arrived? Well, I haven't and wont pretend to either.

Why is it when someone suggests that its possible others act as if we said we have made it already?

I am not denying that we grow into it, from faith to faith.

Rom_1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

I am simply saying it is possible. and my experience while I have not attained yet is that day by day as we walk with the Lord we get stronger in faith. every week we are stronger than the last and have overcome more than the last week.

I based my position on the "fact" that "all" things are possible for God.

So even if my answer to all your questions was in the negative your point would not hold. we base our faith on the word not on what people do or don't do. So to even answer those questions would be a wast of time.

And even if I did answer them if I did answer in the negative you would probably say see then.
and if in the Positive you would not believe me.

Be honest it would achieve nothing me answering those questions. Instead lets believe God.

I can say this with certainty, I used to but no more do I resonate with the Romans 7 condition. Praise God it has become foreign to me.

Romans 8 on the other hand That I resonate with. however I am still learning still growing but today I'm stronger than yesterday. Jesus is a teacher and instructor and all we need to overcome and if what I have seen in the last few months is anything to go by then I know Jesus will get me and any other person who seeks Him all the way till we reflect His exact character because of Christ in us the hope of Glory.

 

[BradC]

Maybe the problem is assuming that when Paul says "I" we assume Paul is speaking of a current condition. this can not be as seen in the text.

As you mentioned Paul says "I" in Romans 7.
but notice what He says in Romans 8.

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Notice the word "me" Paul is speaking of himself is he not. Yet here in verse 2 He is free from the very Condition "I" was in in chapter 7.

Notice.

Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?



Romans 7 "me" is in captivity to law of sin and death.
Romans 8 "me" is free from the law of sin and death


Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Both can not be true at the same time. I conclude then that Paul was using "I" for the reader to read and see themselves in this passage. But whatever reason there is no escaping that both can not be true at the same time.

We can not be in bondage to sin and death and free from sin and death at the same time.

You have a convoluted way of looking at Romans 7. Paul is simply speaking about the sin that dwells in the members of his body (v.5,23) and what can be done about it. First he is writing to let the reader know that when he sins it is not 'I' but rather the sin that dwells within him and he clarifies it (2) times (v.17,20). This was the same in Paul as in every man before and after salvation takes place because God does not eradicate the sin nature in man that produces sin at conversion.

Secondly, Paul is relating to the law to sin that lives in his members and how to deal with it through the law of the Spirit of life. Paul never identifies with his sin and actually separates himself from it as 'not I but sin that dwells in me'. Paul does the same in (Gal 2:20) when he exclaims, 'I am crucified with Christ, nevertheless I live, yet not I but Christ liveth in me and the life I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God who died and gave His life for me. Romans 8 continues his thoughts and he actually exclaims, 'NO CONDEMNATION'. Those two words would have been enough to translate verse 1 of Romans 8.

Rom 7 can refer to any man that realizes the sin that dwells in him before or after he has been saved and made free through the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus.

 

[crossnote]

Why is it when someone suggests that its possible others act as if we said we have made it already?

I am not denying that we grow into it, from faith to faith.

Rom_1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

I am simply saying it is possible. and my experience while I have not attained yet is that day by day as we walk with the Lord we get stronger in faith. every week we are stronger than the last and have overcome more than the last week.

I based my position on the "fact" that "all" things are possible for God.

So even if my answer to all your questions was in the negative your point would not hold. we base our faith on the word not on what people do or don't do. So to even answer those questions would be a wast of time.

And even if I did answer them if I did answer in the negative you would probably say see then.
and if in the Positive you would not believe me.

Be honest it would achieve nothing me answering those questions. Instead lets believe God.

I can say this with certainty, I used to but no more do I resonate with the Romans 7 condition. Praise God it has become foreign to me.

Romans 8 on the other hand That I resonate with. however I am still learning still growing but today I'm stronger than yesterday. Jesus is a teacher and instructor and all we need to overcome and if what I have seen in the last few months is anything to go by then I know Jesus will get me and any other person who seeks Him all the way till we reflect His exact character because of Christ in us the hope of Glory.

I find day by day the trials are adjusted to just a notch above what 'my faith' can handle so that I must resort to trusting Him...not me.