Romans 9, is it really hard?

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notuptome

notuptome

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#21
May 17, 2013
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#21
eternally-gratefull said:
thats how God chose, He knows how people will react and what they will do. Pharoah is a wonderful proof of this, He put someone in place he knew would do what he did when he was confronted with those issues.
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Foreknowledge is not predetermination.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#22
#22
notuptome said:
Foreknowledge is not predetermination.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
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But predetermination is based on forknowledge, Prophesy is also based on foreknowledge, Election is based on foreknowledge, It is how god can do all those things, as David said, God knew him while he was in his mothers womb, No person ever does anything that God did not already know he was going to do. We do not do something, and God says oh wow. I ne’er knew that was going to happen. Now what?
 
preacher4truth

preacher4truth

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#23
Dec 28, 2016
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#23
valiant said:
Funny thing is that GOD said otherwise:

God's Choosing and Effectual Calling


Th 2:13-14 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, for that God chose you from the beginning unto salvation in sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth, whereunto He called you through our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.


Eph 1:3-8 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ: even as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blemish before Him in love: having foreordained us unto adoption as sons through Jesus Christ unto Himself,according to the good pleasure of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved, in Whom we have our redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace, which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence.


Eph 1:11-12 in Whom also we were made a heritage, having been foreordained according to the purpose of Him who works all things after the counsel of his will; to the end that we should be unto the praise of His glory, we who had before hoped in Christ:


Rom 8:28-30 And we know that to those that love God all things work together for good, even to those that are called according to His purpose. For those whom He entered into relationship with beforehand (proginosko, NOT prooida) He also foreordained to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren: and whom He foreordained, them He also called: and whom He called, them He also justified: and whom He justified, them He also glorified.


2Ti 1:9-10 Who saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before times eternal, but has now been manifested by the appearing of our Saviour Christ Jesus, who abolished death, and brought life and incorruption to light through the gospel,


1Pe 1:1-2 tothe elect – according to God the Father entering into relationship with them beforehand, in sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace be multiplied.


Rom 9:15-16 For He says to Moses, 'I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.' So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God Who has mercy.


Rom 9:18-23 So then He has mercy on whom He will, and whom He will He hardens. You will say then to me, 'Why does He still find fault? For who withstands His will?' No but, O man, who are you who replies against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why did you make me thus? Or has not the potter a right over the clay, from the same lump to make one part a vessel to honour, and another to dishonour? What if God, willing to show His wrath, and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: and that He might make known the riches of His glory on vessels of mercy, which He before prepared unto glory.


Rom 11.7 Those who were chosen obtained it and the rest were hardened


Acts 13.48 As many as were ordained to eternal life believed
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Just wondering if you copied that statement from EG that you show him quoted in. Could be he edited it out after you posted it. But, not sure how all that works here.
 
V

valiant

Senior Member
#24
Mar 22, 2015
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#24
eternally-gratefull said:
I challenge anyone to look at my post and see where I posted this. And if you find it (I could not) please show it in context so I can see what was actually said.
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Valiant - Originally Posted by Eternally-Gratefull ' God did not elect anyone and left everything to randomness'
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seems pretty clear to me.

'All these people just did is prove they have no desire to discuss anything, all they want to do is attack, They can not even back their belief, they have to lie about others.
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Are you referring to Paul-- or Peter?
 
notuptome

notuptome

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#25
May 17, 2013
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#25
eternally-gratefull said:
But predetermination is based on forknowledge, Prophesy is also based on foreknowledge, Election is based on foreknowledge, It is how god can do all those things, as David said, God knew him while he was in his mothers womb, No person ever does anything that God did not already know he was going to do. We do not do something, and God says oh wow. I ne’er knew that was going to happen. Now what?
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God knows what we will do but God does not make us do it.

All men will sin but God does not make man sin nor does God tempt man to sin. If God were going to act with predetermination would He not predetermine that every man should be saved?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
V

valiant

Senior Member
#26
Mar 22, 2015
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#26
notuptome said:
Foreknowledge is not predetermination.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
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proginosko (entering into relationship beforehand) is the result of predetemination

and the Bible teaches God's predetermination,
 
notuptome

notuptome

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#27
May 17, 2013
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#27
valiant said:
proginosko (entering into relationship beforehand) is the result of predetemination

and the Bible teaches God's predetermination,
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God loves His creation. What you wish to espouse is fatalism. God creates hope you espouse no hope.

1Jo 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

Ro 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
V

valiant

Senior Member
#28
Mar 22, 2015
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#28
notuptome said:
God knows what we will do but God does not make us do it.
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where does it say that? LOL we are free to choose sin, we are not free to choose God.

All men will sin but God does not make man sin nor does God tempt man to sin.
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so God failed?

If God were going to act with predetermination would He not predetermine that every man should be saved?
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Man's thinking. God alone knows why He could not save all.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#29
#29
preacher4truth said:
Just wondering if you copied that statement from EG that you show him quoted in. Could be he edited it out after you posted it. But, not sure how all that works here.
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Look at the time he posted it, then look at the times I posted all of my posts. you will see the time for me to edit was WAY past due,


Originally Posted by valiant


Originally Posted by Eternally-Gratefull God did not elect anyone and left everything to randomness

This is what a true post looks like, where are the parenthesis, or the link mark in his post? My font is not even used in the quote, how can that be?


Are you seriously so out to get me that you really want to think this may be true?

I hope you were not serious
 
V

valiant

Senior Member
#30
Mar 22, 2015
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#30
Originally Posted by valiant
proginosko (entering into relationship beforehand) is the result of predetemination

and the Bible teaches God's predetermination
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notuptome said:
God loves His creation. What you wish to espouse is fatalism.
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what I espouse is the Scriptures in Greek.

God creates hope you espouse no hope.
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The hope that God creates is a certain hope, not your wishy washy version.

1Jo 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
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God's sovereignty


Ro 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
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yes, we elect
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#31
#31
valiant said:
[/B]

seems pretty clear to me.



Are you referring to Paul-- or Peter?
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here is his proof. None,, of course there is a reason he can not prove it, BECAUSE I NEVER SAID IT.

And people think this is ok? And then want us to think they are mature believers in christ..

Thank you but no thank you, Children act this way,Mature believers do not need to make things up
 
G

garee

Banned
#32
Mar 28, 2016
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#32
notuptome said:
Foreknowledge is not predetermination.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
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Yes foreknowledge is the building blocks of faith it predetermines the outcomes when executed or worked out as a work of faith. When our faithful Creator as Logos by faith said let their be light... what he predetermined became substance to show the supernatural power his creative work of faith. Without faith God can do not work .we have that faith as the power of God in these earthen bodies of death but are never to assume it could be of us.

Without His faith working in us with us we could not please Him . He must to the first works (it is the work of God working in us that we can believe Him so that our new faith along with out new spirit can increase seeing he causes the growth we humble ourselves under the hearing of His faith as the same spirit of faith according as it is written. .
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#33
#33
notuptome said:
God knows what we will do but God does not make us do it.

All men will sin but God does not make man sin nor does God tempt man to sin. If God were going to act with predetermination would He not predetermine that every man should be saved?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
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AMEN!! YES, This I agree with 100% Amen and Amen God does not make us do anything.
 
V

valiant

Senior Member
#34
Mar 22, 2015
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#34
eternally-gratefull said:
here is his proof. None,, of course there is a reason he can not prove it, BECAUSE I NEVER SAID IT.

And people think this is ok? And then want us to think they are mature believers in christ..

Thank you but no thank you, Children act this way,Mature believers do not need to make things up
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I copied and pasted it from somewhere. If you did not say it someone has set you up.
 
G

garee

Banned
#36
Mar 28, 2016
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#36
notuptome said:
God knows what we will do but God does not make us do it.

All men will sin but God does not make man sin nor does God tempt man to sin. If God were going to act with predetermination would He not predetermine that every man should be saved?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Click to expand...
I would say because God is of one mind and always does whatsoever his soul decides and knowing he performs that which is appointed to us making our hearts soft as he does work in us to both will and do His good pleasure .He predetermined that as many as he gave to the Son will come and because they did come he would never cast them out and make him the liar..
 
V

valiant

Senior Member
#37
Mar 22, 2015
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#37
eternally-gratefull said:
Look at the time he posted it, then look at the times I posted all of my posts. you will see the time for me to edit was WAY past due,


Originally Posted by valiant


Originally Posted by Eternally-Gratefull God did not elect anyone and left everything to randomness

This is what a true post looks like, where are the parenthesis, or the link mark in his post? My font is not even used in the quote, how can that be?


Are you seriously so out to get me that you really want to think this may be true?

I hope you were not serious
Click to expand...
Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull thats how God chose, He knows how people will react and what they will do. Pharoah is a wonderful proof of this, He put someone in place he knew would do what he did when he was confronted with those issues.

See? Its easy. Now you will say you didn't post this?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#38
#38
valiant said:
Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull thats how God chose, He knows how people will react and what they will do. Pharoah is a wonderful proof of this, He put someone in place he knew would do what he did when he was confronted with those issues.

See? Its easy. Now you will say you didn't post this?
Click to expand...

You will have to forgive me, But saying God KNOWING HOW PEOPLE WILL REACT (ie foreknowledge) and leaving everything to randomness (god has no clue what will happen, he just puts people in place and hopes it all works out) are not even close to be the same.

You still wrote something and made it look like it was an actual post I had made. And you still are defending yourself.

Thats sad, I pray you do not go judge other people for sin when you try to excuse your own.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#40
#40
valiant said:
I copied and pasted it from somewhere. If you did not say it someone has set you up.
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No you did not. If you did, you would be able to find it, because the LINK to the post would have been there.
 
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