Sabbath Day

[TMS]

2 Corinthians 3:6 - who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory.

*Show me in the New Testament where the Church is commanded to keep the sabbath day. *Read Colossians 2:16-17.

Heb_8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
Heb_8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Heb_8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb_8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Heb_8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
Heb_9:1 Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.
Heb 9:2 For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary.

There is two, the first has past away, but if your honest the first did not work because the people didn't obey right and because many were just shadows and examples of Jesus.

The Second is Jesus, with the laws put into our mind, and written in our hearts by the Spirit.
i don't disagree with 2 Corinthians, and can't see how it is saying the law (Ten Comandments) should not be obeyed.

2Co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious,
The law that condemns to death is glorious. But Jesus is more Glorious because he is a living example of the law and merciful as well.

Rom 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Rom 7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
Rom 7:10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
Rom 7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Mat_12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

 

[mailmandan]

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Mat_12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

SDA's quote these same verses a lot and they also teach that near the end of time the "mark of the best" of Revelation 14 will be placed upon those who worship on Sunday instead of Saturday.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

5. What are the "Commandments of God"? The whole teaching of Adventists regarding the Mark of the Beast centers on Revelation 14:12 which says that those who have the "commandments of God" do not receive the mark. Adventists claim that this passage is referring to the Ten Commandments, and Sunday-keepers cannot be keeping the Ten Commandments because the Fourth Commandment instructs worship on Saturday.

The best way to interpret the meaning of John's writings is to compare them with the other writings of John. The Greek word for "commandments" in Rev. 14:12 is entole which means "an order, command, charge, precept, injunction."20 The same word is used repeatedly in the writings of John to refer to the instructions of Christ. John uses an entirely different Greek word in his writings when he refers to the Ten Commandments: nomas. For example:

Did not Moses give you the law {nomos}, and [yet] none of you keepeth the law {nomos}? Why go ye about to kill me? (John 7:19) Jesus is referring to the 6th commandment "Thou shalt not kill"--Ex. 20:13) According to John, the number one commandment {entolae} of Jesus to the Apostles was not Sabbath-worship, but for them to love one another:

A new commandment {entolae} I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. (John 13:34) This is my commandment {entolae}, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. (John 15:12)
Notice how John refers to the "commandments" of God in his letter:

By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments {entolas}. For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments {entolas}; and His commandments {entolae} are not burdensome. (1 John 5:2-3)
Earlier in the same letter John tells us exactly what the "commandments" of God are:

Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, [then] have we confidence toward God. And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His [God's] commandments {entolas} and do the things that are pleasing in His sight. This is His [God's] commandment {entolae}, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He [God] commanded {entolaen} us. The one who keeps His [God's] commandments {entolas} abides in Him,... (1 John 3:21-24)

From this we can see that in John's writings the "commandments" of God are:

1. To believe in Jesus Christ
2. To love one another

https://nonsda.org/study8.shtml

 

[mailmandan]

TMS: I can forget about but people are telling me to forget about he one command that God said to remember.
for the same reason i choose to not steal and lie I choose to remember the sabbath day.

mailmandan: Why don't you explain to us exactly how you remember or keep the sabbath day. Does it involve compliance with these specific regulations? (Exodus 16:23, 29; 31:12-18; 35:1-3; Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3, 32; Numbers 15:32-36; 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13; Amos 8:5; Nehemiah 10:31)

I'm still waiting for you to answer my question.

 

[TMS]

As I previously stated, it simply means that God’s people will perpetually worship Him in contrast to keeping the weekly sabbath day under the law. It's not about observing new moons and keeping the weekly sabbath day under the law throughout eternity in the new earth.

So according to your logic, it's only in certain parts of the new heaven and new earth that people will observe new moons and keep the weekly sabbath under the law?

SDA's are quick to make that argument. Why would there be no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in the city, but the rest of the earth needs it? So in the new earth the glory of God only lights the city alone?

Be careful you are making presumptions.
According to my logic i don't know how things will work, my wisdom is foolishness. Gods ways are so much deeper then our logic and more glorious then we can imagine. If the sun goes down and comes up, continues to circle the Earth (Earth spin on its axis), we can still count the days even if the light is less glorious then Gods. who knows God may give us 3 moons and 2 suns to admire his works.

 

[TMS]

SDA's quote these same verses a lot and they also teach that near the end of time the "mark of the best" of Revelation 14 will be placed upon those who worship on Sunday instead of Saturday.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

5. What are the "Commandments of God"? The whole teaching of Adventists regarding the Mark of the Beast centers on Revelation 14:12 which says that those who have the "commandments of God" do not receive the mark. Adventists claim that this passage is referring to the Ten Commandments, and Sunday-keepers cannot be keeping the Ten Commandments because the Fourth Commandment instructs worship on Saturday.

The best way to interpret the meaning of John's writings is to compare them with the other writings of John. The Greek word for "commandments" in Rev. 14:12 is entole which means "an order, command, charge, precept, injunction."20 The same word is used repeatedly in the writings of John to refer to the instructions of Christ. John uses an entirely different Greek word in his writings when he refers to the Ten Commandments: nomas. For example:

Did not Moses give you the law {nomos}, and [yet] none of you keepeth the law {nomos}? Why go ye about to kill me? (John 7:19) Jesus is referring to the 6th commandment "Thou shalt not kill"--Ex. 20:13) According to John, the number one commandment {entolae} of Jesus to the Apostles was not Sabbath-worship, but for them to love one another:

A new commandment {entolae} I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. (John 13:34) This is my commandment {entolae}, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. (John 15:12)
Notice how John refers to the "commandments" of God in his letter:

By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments {entolas}. For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments {entolas}; and His commandments {entolae} are not burdensome. (1 John 5:2-3)
Earlier in the same letter John tells us exactly what the "commandments" of God are:

Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, [then] have we confidence toward God. And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His [God's] commandments {entolas} and do the things that are pleasing in His sight. This is His [God's] commandment {entolae}, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He [God] commanded {entolaen} us. The one who keeps His [God's] commandments {entolas} abides in Him,... (1 John 3:21-24)

From this we can see that in John's writings the "commandments" of God are:

1. To believe in Jesus Christ
2. To love one another

https://nonsda.org/study8.shtml

Mat 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Rom_13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Rom_13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Jas 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
Jas 2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Jas 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
Jas 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

 

[TMS]

its getting late, i should go to sleep.
for the same reason you don't steel or lie or murder. i try to obey the 4th commandment. it is a great blessing if you keep it with the right spirit, love for God.

 

[mailmandan]

Mat 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Rom_13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Rom_13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Jas 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
Jas 2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Jas 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
Jas 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

Since the old covenant has been made obsolete, does this leave us with no moral direction? Absolutely not. God made the old covenant obsolete in order to put into place the new covenant (2 Corinthians 3:6-9; Hebrews 8:6-13). The life of discipleship flows out of the new command, to love one another as He loved us (John 13:34), which Paul refers to as the "law of Christ" (Galatians 6:2) and James refers to as the royal law. (James 2:8) Love fulfills the law (Romans 13:8-10). Out of this command comes other commands, including references for the moral aspect of 9 of the 10 commandments, which are reiterated in the New Testament, yet the command to keep the sabbath day is not binding on Christians under the new covenant. If you can prove to me otherwise in the New Testament I am all ears.

1. You shall have no other gods before Me. - Acts 14:15
2. You shall make no idols. - 1 John 5:21
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. - 1 Timothy 6:1; James 2:7; James 5:12
4. Keep the sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17
5. Honor your father and your mother. - Ephesians 6:1-2
6. You shall not murder. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 John 3:15
7. You shall not commit adultery. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
8. You shall not steal. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 4:28
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - Romans 13:9-10; Colossians 3:9-10
10. You shall not covet. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 5:3

its getting late, i should go to sleep.
for the same reason you don't steel or lie or murder. i try to obey the 4th commandment. it is a great blessing if you keep it with the right spirit, love for God.

You try to obey the 4th commandment? How exactly do you obey it? Simply rest on Saturday and do no work? There was much more involved in keeping the sabbath day according to the law. How can you keep a certain law when you only keep part of it?

 

[mailmandan]

Be careful you are making presumptions.
According to my logic i don't know how things will work, my wisdom is foolishness. Gods ways are so much deeper then our logic and more glorious then we can imagine. If the sun goes down and comes up, continues to circle the Earth (Earth spin on its axis), we can still count the days even if the light is less glorious then Gods. who knows God may give us 3 moons and 2 suns to admire his works.

So you are determined to believe that redeemed man will observe new moons and keep the weekly sabbath day under the law throughout eternity in the new heavens and new earth according to Isaiah 66:22-23? How exactly will that be done?

 

[mailmandan]

For Sabbatarians who believe that keeping the sabbath day is binding on Christians in the New Testament, please explain to me exactly how you "keep the sabbath" (and please use scripture to back up your answer). I never seem to get a straight forward concise answer from Sabbatarians when I ask them this question.

 

[garee]

I was recently in a discussion with a customer on my mail route who attends the "Worldwide Church of God" and he is absolutely obsessed with the sabbath day and has basically turned it into an idol. He told me that I need to tell my employer that I cannot work on Saturday because it's the sabbath day and if I continue to work on Saturday, then my salvation will be in jeopardy. He gave me a gospel tract from his church that states the plan of salvation as follows: Repent of sin, be baptized correctly in Jesus name and keep the 10 commandments (with a heavy emphasis on the 4th commandment) yet NOTHING ABOUT SALVATION THROUGH FAITH IN CHRIST.

Gotta love the mail men or female mail workers.

Faith as it is written is destroyed through self righteous works of self edification.. called sign gifts by some..

Changing a non time senititive word "rest" into one that is subject to time is where many go astray and try and make it into works righteous doctrine. or again what some would call a sign gift. We walk by faith the eternal

The thing that it is used in ceremonies' as a shadow of the daily rest we receive when we do not harden our hearts (Hebrew 4 ) It is where they go astray. Setting aside one commandment of the ten as shadow would seem to take away from self edifying one self as a sign .

I would think its easy to see that God does not use parables as reasoning tools to define moral laws. The gospel key many over look from my experiences.

Looking at the two rendering of the ten commandments (Exodus 20 and Deuteronomy 5.) The forth commandment uses different reasons to come to the conclusion of the same "rest" as those yoked with Christ. .

One is connected to creation the other the promise to Abraham of removing a people from Egypt that had no days of rest. The beginning of the ceremonies a picture to all the nations during the time in the wilderness. The beginning of a new calendar beginning on the first day of the week. The day he said let there be light to represent new creatures, a sign to the world. And not to their own flesh

Exodus 20:11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Deuteronomy 5:15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the Lord thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the Lord thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.

 

[Grandpa]

If we have been released from the law because the law was removed, we have not sinned once. No law equals no sin.
If we are released from the consequences of the law (penalty of the law) by the blood of Jesus the law still stands but can not condemn us when we are covered by the blood of Jesus.
We are sinners today so a law must stand and we are released by the the blood of Jesus.
The law and the Spirit..... are they against each other? The law is spiritual Rom 7:14.
The Spirit is perfectly obedient to the law. If we are walking in the Spirit we are obedient to the law.
The law is love and righteousness, it was only written as 10 commandments because we needed to understand it better. It can be summed up as love. Love to God and Love to our neighbor. The Pharisees were hypocrites, which means they promoted the law but didn't keep it themselves. Jesus broke the sabbath according to the pharisees standard but Jesus kept it by Gods spiritual perfect standard.
you can tell yourself there is no law, and that would be nice because i would have no sin and not need a savior.
You can tell yourself that the law (the Ten Commandments) has changed and the sabbath command is not valid today. but it was sanctified and made holy before sin and Jesus said....
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
He quotes some of the 10 commandments in verse 21, and 27

I don't get told that not taking the Lords name in vain is a works that i can forget about, i don't get told that not killing are works i can forget about but people are telling me to forget about he one command that God said to remember.
for the same reason i choose to not steal and lie i choose to remember the sabbath day.
Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

How are you walking in the Spirit if you are working at your understanding of Law?

Do you work at your understanding of Sacrifice? No. You receive the Blessing of the Lords Fulfillment.

Why would you think it works differently with any other aspect of the Law?

1+1=2
2+2=4
4+4=3,286 Whoa, whoa, whoa... You were doing so well...

Which of the Fruit of the Spirit are "Work at your understanding of the Law"??? Which of the Fruit of the Spirit are "Rest and worship on Saturday, and ONLY on Saturday"???


The Law and the Spirit are NOT against each other. The Law was ALWAYS a description of the work of the Holy Spirit. But the Law never intended for the Work of the Holy Spirit to be only one day a week and that day HAD to be Saturday only...

 

[Grandpa]

For Sabbatarians who believe that keeping the sabbath day is binding on Christians in the New Testament, please explain to me exactly how you "keep the sabbath" (and please use scripture to back up your answer). I never seem to get a straight forward concise answer from Sabbatarians when I ask them this question.

I don't understand that one either.

How do you point to the law as being the reason for doing something and then ignore what it says and make up your own rules?

 

[TMS]

For Sabbatarians who believe that keeping the sabbath day is binding on Christians in the New Testament, please explain to me exactly how you "keep the sabbath" (and please use scripture to back up your answer). I never seem to get a straight forward concise answer from Sabbatarians when I ask them this question.

i'll be honest, i may not be keeping the sabbath perfectly, but i'm giving my heart to God to lead me and guide me.
Are you judging me on how i keep it? Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
It is between me and God. i will only be shown if i have a soft heart willing to hear. you can not be shown because your mind is already made up.
Jesus showed the people that the law is spiritual.
Mat 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment:......

Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Mat 23:24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
Mat 23:25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.

i may keep the sabbath by the letter of the law and perfectly by mans standards but Jesus is my standard and example. He is Lord of the Sabbath and kept it perfectly.

 

[mailmandan]

i'll be honest, i may not be keeping the sabbath perfectly, but i'm giving my heart to God to lead me and guide me.
Are you judging me on how i keep it? Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
It is between me and God. i will only be shown if i have a soft heart willing to hear. you can not be shown because your mind is already made up.
Jesus showed the people that the law is spiritual.
Mat 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment:......

Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Mat 23:24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
Mat 23:25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.

i may keep the sabbath by the letter of the law and perfectly by mans standards but Jesus is my standard and example. He is Lord of the Sabbath and kept it perfectly.

I'm not judging you and there is no need to get defensive. Certain Sabbatarians (particularly SDA"s) are quick to disagree with me and judge me when I say that keeping the sabbath day from the Old Testament law is not binding on Christians in the New Testament, yet I never can seem to get a straight forward concise answer from SDA's and other Sabbatarians on how they keep the sabbath. I especially find it strange that groups like SDA's and those who attend the Worldwide Church of God who teach salvation by "grace plus law, faith plus works," will insist that keeping the sabbath day is necessary for salvation, yet they can't even give me a straight answer on how they keep it.

 

[garee]

I don't understand that one either.

How do you point to the law as being the reason for doing something and then ignore what it says and make up your own rules?

Why do you think God used parables as a reasoning tool in respect the the 4th Commandment and not in respect to the 9 moral laws ?

Both accounts Exodus 20 and Deuteronomy 5 have the same result "sabbath rest" but different beginnings for the reasoning.

A new calendar used in the wilderness set up the ceremonies. . a sign to the nations not to edify their own corrupted flesh, on the first day of the calendar. .The same day God said; "let there be light". Introducing born again children of light, as sons of God.

 

[Dino246]

Why do you think God used parables as a reasoning tool in respect the the 4th Commandment and not in respect to the 9 moral laws ?

What parables are you talking about?

 

[garee]

What parables are you talking about?

The ones he spoke not without. I think they begin in Genesis and go through to Revelation . They teach us how to walk by faith . . .taking away confusion, wondering and doubt by exposing the things not seen .The work of God.

 

[Dino246]

The ones he spoke not without. I think they begin in Genesis and go through to Revelation . They teach us how to walk by faith . . .taking away confusion, wondering and doubt by exposing the things not seen .The work of God.

Your use of "parable" does not conform with the standard meaning of the word. Ask any Christian what a parable is, and you will not get an answer that matches your idea. That means you have made up your own meaning for the word. It's little wonder that so few people understand you. Between your limited understanding of the structure of written English, your invented meanings for words, and your penchant for wordy irrelevance, I'm surprised any more than about three people get what you're saying. Most simply give up trying.

 

[garee]

Your use of "parable" does not conform with the standard meaning of the word. Ask any Christian what a parable is, and you will not get an answer that matches your idea. That means you have made up your own meaning for the word. It's little wonder that so few people understand you. Between your limited understanding of the structure of written English, your invented meanings for words, and your penchant for wordy irrelevance, I'm surprised any more than about three people get what you're saying. Most simply give up trying.

Wherever two or three are gathered together under the hearing of Christ's faith he is there working in them to both will and do his good pleasure.

I am not so concerned what you think a parable is or what its purpose is .You show no interest in going outside the literal interpretation . And to much orthodoxy like that of the Pharisees with Sadducees killed the savoir. Saul had a the right credentials a Greek and Hebrew school but did not mix faith when looking at the parables .Therefore murdering the misperceived what he considered competition.

Scripture defines scripture. We simply do not know Christ after a law of the fathers, the same law against the Nicolaitans. They left the first love, hearing the understanding of faith .They were commanded to do the first works of God working in them . . . Believe God.

The prescription for finding the unseen eternal understanding hid in parables is given .Wil you abide in it as it is written and mix faith with the temporal things seen ?

2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

.

 

[TMS]

Since the old covenant has been made obsolete, does this leave us with no moral direction? Absolutely not. God made the old covenant obsolete in order to put into place the new covenant (2 Corinthians 3:6-9; Hebrews 8:6-13). The life of discipleship flows out of the new command, to love one another as He loved us (John 13:34), which Paul refers to as the "law of Christ" (Galatians 6:2) and James refers to as the royal law. (James 2:8) Love fulfills the law (Romans 13:8-10). Out of this command comes other commands, including references for the moral aspect of 9 of the 10 commandments, which are reiterated in the New Testament, yet the command to keep the sabbath day is not binding on Christians under the new covenant. If you can prove to me otherwise in the New Testament I am all ears.

1. You shall have no other gods before Me. - Acts 14:15
2. You shall make no idols. - 1 John 5:21
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. - 1 Timothy 6:1; James 2:7; James 5:12
4. Keep the sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17
5. Honor your father and your mother. - Ephesians 6:1-2
6. You shall not murder. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 John 3:15
7. You shall not commit adultery. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
8. You shall not steal. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 4:28
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - Romans 13:9-10; Colossians 3:9-10
10. You shall not covet. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 5:3

You try to obey the 4th commandment? How exactly do you obey it? Simply rest on Saturday and do no work? There was much more involved in keeping the sabbath day according to the law. How can you keep a certain law when you only keep part of it?

the bible doesn't contradict itself. In one place say we should obey the law, and in another say it is not valid.
You say 9 out of 10 are valid and the laws of ordanences are not valid, and i say 10 out of 10 are valid and the laws of ordanence are not valid, they were just a shadow. i agree with most of what you say, but this, "Out of this command comes other commands, including references for the moral aspect of 9 of the 10 commandments, which are reiterated in the New Testament, yet the command to keep the sabbath day is not binding on Christians under the new covenant." 4. Keep the sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17

Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Col 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
Let No One Disqualify You
Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
Col 2:20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, Col 2:21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not; Col 2:22 Which all are to perish with the using

Are the sabbath days mentioned in Col 2 ordinances? Yes, there were Sabbaths (more then one) introduced as a shadow, that are different to the weekly Sabbath that was sanctified and made holy at creation. There is no evidence to say verse 16 is referring to the seventh day sabbath in the 4th commandment. God said the new covenant would contain laws...."I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:" What are Gods laws? this is where we differ, i think the same God that gave 10 at at Siani hasn't changed and the same principles apply today. He wants to write them on our heart.

The following verses are telling me to continue keeping the Sabbath rest. i need to rest in Jesus continually and without Jesus we can not do anything good in any way but don't make the seventh day sabbath disappear because we rest in Jesus spiritually. Don't think i'm trying to work my way to heaven you said we still have moral direction to follow and i agree.

Heb 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
Heb 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
Heb 4:5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
Heb 4:6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
Heb 4:7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
Heb 4:8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
Heb 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.