Sabbath Law and Rest

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Which view do you take?

  • God requires Christians to observe a Saturday Sabbath.

    Votes: 22 36.7%
  • God desires for Christians to observe a Saturday Sabbath.

    Votes: 10 16.7%
  • God desires for Christians to observe a weekly Sabbath, either Saturday or Sunday.

    Votes: 10 16.7%
  • God requires Christians to observe a Sunday Sabbath.

    Votes: 2 3.3%
  • God doesn't want us to worry about observing any Sabbath.

    Votes: 16 26.7%

  • Total voters
    60
S

sparkman

Guest
The Ten Commandments are a summary of the Old Covenant
Exodus 34:28 “So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights. He neither ate bread nor drank water. And he wrote on the tablets the word of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.
Exodus 31:18 “And he gave to Moses when he had finished speaking with him on Mount Sinai, the two tablets of the testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.
Deut 4:13 “And he declared to you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, that is, the Ten Commandments, and he wrote them on two tablets of stone”.
Deut 9:9 “When I went up the mountain to receive the tablets of stone, the tablets of the covenant that the Lord made with you.”
Deut 9:11 “And at the end of forty days and forty nights the Lord gave me the two tablets of stone, the tablets of the covenant.”
The Old Covenant was an agreement between God and Israel, not God and Christians
Ex 31:12-17 And the Lord said to Moses, “You are to speak to the people of Israel and say, ‘Above all you shall keep my Sabbaths, for this is a sign between me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I, the Lord, sanctify you. You shall keep the Sabbath, because it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall be put to death. Whoever does any work on it, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day shall be put to death. Therefore the people of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, observing the Sabbath throughout their generations, as a covenant forever. It is a sign forever between me and the people of Israel that in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed.”
The Old Covenant is no longer in effect for ANYONE
Heb 8:13-9:4 In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away. Now even the first covenant had regulations for worship and an earthly place of holiness. For a tent was prepared, the first section, in which were the lampstand and the table, and the bread of the Presence. It is called the Holy Place. Behind the second curtain was a second section called the Most Holy Place, having the golden altar of incense and the ark of the covenant covered on all sides with gold, in which was a golden urn holding the manna, and Aaron’s staff that budded, and the tablets of the covenant.
Gal 3:17 This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterwards, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void.
Gal 3:19 Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, until the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made, and it was put in place through angels by an intermediary.
Gal 3:24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith
Gal 3:25 But now that faith is come, we are no longer under a guardian
2 Cor 3:4-18 Such is the confidence that we have through Christ toward God. Not that we are sufficient in ourselves to claim anything as coming from us, but our sufficiency is from God, who has made us sufficient to be ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. Now if the ministry of death, carved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at Moses’ face because of its glory, which was being brought to an end, will not the ministry of the Spirit have even much more glory? For if there was glory in the ministry of condemnation, the ministry of righteousness must far exceed it in glory. Indeed, in this case, what once had glory has come to have no glory at all, because of the glory that surpasses it. For if what was being brought to an end came with glory, much more will what is permanent have glory. Since we have such a hope, we are very bold, not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face so that the Israelites might not gaze at the outcome of what was being brought to an end. But their minds were hardened. For to this day, when they read the old covenant, that same veil remains unlifted, because only through Christ is it taken away. Yes, to this day whenever Moses is read a veil lies over their hearts. But when one turns to the Lord, the veil is removed. Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. And we all with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit.
The Sabbath, as part of the Old Covenant, is not in affect for ANYONE
Gal 4:10 You observe days and months and seasons and years! I am afraid I may have labored over you in vain.
Rom 14:5-6 One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.
Col 2:16-17 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ
Jesus is our Sabbath or spiritual rest, and we enter into that spiritual rest by placing our faith in Him
Matt 11:28-30 Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and lean from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
Heb 4:1-8 Therefore, while the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us fear lest any of you should seem to have failed to reach it. For good news came to us just as to them, but the message they heard did not benefit them, because they were not united by faith with those who listened. For we who have believed enter that rest, as he has said, “As I swore in my wrath, They shall not enter my rest. “ although his works were finished from the foundation of the world. For he has somewhere spoken of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all his works.” And again in this passage he said, “They shall not enter my rest.”. Since therefore it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly received the good news failed to enter because of disobedience, again he appoints a certain day, “Today”, saying through David so long afterward, in the words already quoted. “Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts.” For if Joshua had not given them rest, God would not have spoken of another day later on. So then there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God, for whoever has entered God’s rest has also rested from is works as God did from his. Let us therefore strive to enter that rest, so that no one may fall by the same sort of disobedience.
Christians are under the New Covenant, which has much higher demands and different commandments
Luke 22:20 And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood.”
Heb 9:15 Therefore, he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.
Jn 13:34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another.
Jn 15:12 This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.
Jn 15:17 These things I command you, so that you will love one another
Rom 13:10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
I am a former Sabbathkeeper due to my association as a new believer with Worldwide Church of God (now called Grace Communion International). Worldwide Church of God came to realize in 1995 that Christians are under the New Covenant, and not the Old Covenant, and the Sabbath does not apply to Christians under the New Covenant. It was a sign of the Old Covenant (like baptism and the Lord’s Supper are signs of the New Covenant), and is not a moral absolute like Sabbathkeepers claim. Sabbathkeeping doctrine invariably takes the focus off the true gospel, which is about Jesus Christ and salvation by grace through faith in Him (Eph 2:8-9). As a Sabbathkeeper, I rarely heard messages about God’s grace and love; the message of such organizations invariably focuses on the Sabbath. Jesus Christ was also placed on the backburner and was not the focus of their teaching. If you would like good sources of information in regards to the Sabbath check out Grace Communion International’s website at https://www.gci.org/law I now attend an Evangelical Free church that focuses on Jesus Christ and salvation through Him, which is the true gospel.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,268
6,555
113
Please stop flooding people's in boxes with this paste.

The Ten Commandments are a summary of the Old Covenant
Exodus 34:28 “So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights.He neither ate bread nor drank water.And he wrote on the tablets the word of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.
Exodus 31:18 “And he gave to Moses when he had finished speaking with him on Mount Sinai, the two tablets of the testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.
Deut 4:13 “And he declared to you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, that is, the Ten Commandments, and he wrote them on two tablets of stone”.
Deut 9:9 “When I went up the mountain to receive the tablets of stone, the tablets of the covenant that the Lord made with you.”
Deut 9:11 “And at the end of forty days and forty nights the Lord gave me the two tablets of stone, the tablets of the covenant.”
The Old Covenant was an agreement between God and Israel, not God and Christians
Ex 31:12-17 And the Lord said to Moses, “You are to speak to the people of Israel and say, ‘Above all you shall keep my Sabbaths, for this is a sign between me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I, the Lord, sanctify you.You shall keep the Sabbath, because it is holy to you.Everyone who profanes it shall be put to death.Whoever does any work on it, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day shall be put to death.Therefore the people of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, observing the Sabbath throughout their generations, as a covenant forever.It is a sign forever between me and the people of Israel that in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed.”
The Old Covenant is no longer in effect for ANYONE
Heb 8:13-9:4 In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.Now even the first covenant had regulations for worship and an earthly place of holiness.For a tent was prepared, the first section, in which were the lampstand and the table, and the bread of the Presence.It is called the Holy Place.Behind the second curtain was a second section called the Most Holy Place, having the golden altar of incense and the ark of the covenant covered on all sides with gold, in which was a golden urn holding the manna, and Aaron’s staff that budded, and the tablets of the covenant.
Gal 3:17 This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterwards, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void.
Gal 3:19 Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, until the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made, and it was put in place through angels by an intermediary.
Gal 3:24So the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith
Gal 3:25 But now that faith is come, we are no longer under a guardian
2 Cor 3:4-18 Such is the confidence that we have through Christ toward God.Not that we are sufficient in ourselves to claim anything as coming from us, but our sufficiency is from God, who has made us sufficient to be ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit.For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.Now if the ministry of death, carved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at Moses’ face because of its glory, which was being brought to an end, will not the ministry of the Spirit have even much more glory?For if there was glory in the ministry of condemnation, the ministry of righteousness must far exceed it in glory.Indeed, in this case, what once had glory has come to have no glory at all, because of the glory that surpasses it.For if what was being brought to an end came with glory, much more will what is permanent have glory.Since we have such a hope, we are very bold, not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face so that the Israelites might not gaze at the outcome of what was being brought to an end.But their minds were hardened. For to this day, when they read the old covenant, that same veil remains unlifted, because only through Christ is it taken away.Yes, to this day whenever Moses is read a veil lies over their hearts. But when one turns to the Lord, the veil is removed. Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.And we all with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another.For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit.
The Sabbath, as part of the Old Covenant, is not in affect for ANYONE
Gal 4:10 You observe days and months and seasons and years!I am afraid I may have labored over you in vain.
Rom 14:5-6 One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.
Col 2:16-17 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath.These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ
Jesus is our Sabbath or spiritual rest, and we enter into that spiritual rest by placing our faith in Him
Matt 11:28-30 Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.Take my yoke upon you, and lean from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
Heb 4:1-8Therefore, while the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us fear lest any of you should seem to have failed to reach it.For good news came to us just as to them, but the message they heard did not benefit them, because they were not united by faith with those who listened.For we who have believed enter that rest, as he has said, “As I swore in my wrath, They shall not enter my rest. “ although his works were finished from the foundation of the world.For he has somewhere spoken of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all his works.”And again in this passage he said, “They shall not enter my rest.”.Since therefore it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly received the good news failed to enter because of disobedience, again he appoints a certain day, “Today”, saying through David so long afterward, in the words already quoted.“Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts.”For if Joshua had not given them rest, God would not have spoken of another day later on.So then there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God, for whoever has entered God’s rest has also rested from is works as God did from his.Let us therefore strive to enter that rest, so that no one may fall by the same sort of disobedience.
Christians are under the New Covenant, which has much higher demands and different commandments
Luke 22:20 And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood.”
Heb 9:15 Therefore, he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.
Jn 13:34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another.
Jn 15:12 This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.
Jn 15:17 These things I command you, so that you will love one another
Rom 13:10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
I am a former Sabbathkeeper due to my association as a new believer with Worldwide Church of God (now called Grace Communion International).Worldwide Church of God came to realize in 1995 that Christians are under the New Covenant, and not the Old Covenant, and the Sabbath does not apply to Christians under the New Covenant.It was a sign of the Old Covenant (like baptism and the Lord’s Supper are signs of the New Covenant), and is not a moral absolute like Sabbathkeepers claim.Sabbathkeeping doctrine invariably takes the focus off the true gospel, which is about Jesus Christ and salvation by grace through faith in Him (Eph 2:8-9).As a Sabbathkeeper, I rarely heard messages about God’s grace and love; the message of such organizations invariably focuses on the Sabbath.Jesus Christ was also placed on the backburner and was not the focus of their teaching.If you would like good sources of information in regards to the Sabbath check out Grace Communion International’s website at https://www.gci.org/lawI now attend an Evangelical Free church that focuses on Jesus Christ and salvation through Him, which is the true gospel.
 
S

sparkman

Guest
Please stop flooding people's in boxes with this paste.
I didn't post anything to an inbox...I simply posted to some threads. However I am done. I will be responding to any replies though.
 
N

newlife7

Guest
Jesus is our sabbath rest
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,268
6,555
113
I refer to the page where the post replies come......

...
I didn't post anything to an inbox...I simply posted to some threads. However I am done. I will be responding to any replies though.
 
S

sparkman

Guest
I would highly recommend the book Sabbath in Christ by Dale Ratzlaff if anyone has issues with this subject. He is an ex Seventh Day Adventist pastor.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,268
6,555
113
Law without mercy and grace is engraved in stone.

Law with mercy and grace is engraved in the inward parts, on the tablets of the heart, flesh that is.

Understand the difference, otherwise you are still reading the law with the veil on. Let Jesus remove that veil.
 
Jun 23, 2015
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Interesting fact:

The catholic church openly admits that they changed the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday. So keep in mind, if you're observing the Sunday Sabbath, you're only following a tradition of mankind, and not a commandment of God. Here's the proof, for anyone who's interested.

[video=youtube;zSnX0zTJMc8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSnX0zTJMc8[/video]
 
Dec 9, 2011
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I decided not to vote but if I had to I would vote For the last one.

I wish you had an option for GOD is our Sabbath.
 
Jun 23, 2015
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Another interesting fact:

The Sabbath command is the only command listed in the 10 commandments that we are told to "remember". And yet, it's also the only command listed in the 10 commandments that nearly all of modern Christianity has forgotten.
 
S

sparkman

Guest
The Old Covenant was between God and Israel, not God and Christians.

Circumcision was the one-time entry sign into the Old Covenant. The Sabbath was the continuing, "remembrance" sign of the Old Covenant.

Baptism is the one-time entry sign into the New Covenant. The Lord's Supper is the continuing, "remembrance" sign of the New Covenant. Christ said to do this in remembrance of him.

Another interesting fact:

The Sabbath command is the only command listed in the 10 commandments that we are told to "remember". And yet, it's also the only command listed in the 10 commandments that nearly all of modern Christianity has forgotten.
 
S

sparkman

Guest
The Roman Catholic Church claims a lot of things that aren't true. Example: Peter was the first pope.

The Roman Catholic church did not even exist when the transition from Saturday to Sunday occurred. It occurred early in the Church. Christians would meet with the Jews on the Sabbath to hear the Scriptures read, and then would meet amongst themselves on Sunday to discuss them from a Christian context.

About 90 AD Jews began to heavily persecute Christians so the Christians simply stopped going to the synagogue and met on Sunday alone, for the most part.

The Roman Catholic church did not even exist until about 450 AD. Until then they were simply one of five bishoprics of the church. This bishopric claimed superior authority as early as 350 or so but they did not possess that kind of power.

The fairy tale that Sabbathkeepers recount concerning this is just that..a fairy tale.

Interesting fact:

The catholic church openly admits that they changed the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday. So keep in mind, if you're observing the Sunday Sabbath, you're only following a tradition of mankind, and not a commandment of God. Here's the proof, for anyone who's interested.

[video=youtube;zSnX0zTJMc8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSnX0zTJMc8[/video]
 
Nov 14, 2012
2,113
4
0
Interesting fact:

The catholic church openly admits that they changed the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday. So keep in mind, if you're observing the Sunday Sabbath, you're only following a tradition of mankind, and not a commandment of God. Here's the proof, for anyone who's interested.

[video=youtube;zSnX0zTJMc8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSnX0zTJMc8[/video]
The Catholic Church has services 365 days a year. The protestants kind of went crazy with this Sunday thing, then they added Wednesday night as if it is a commandment. I even had a protestant woman tell me she goes to Church on Sunday and Wednesday night just like the good lord said to. Ridiculous
 
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Jun 23, 2015
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The Catholic Church has services 365 days a year. The protestants kind of went crazy with this Sunday thing, then they added Wednesday night as if it is a commandment. I even had a protestant woman tell me she goes to Church on Sunday and Wednesday night just like the good lord said to. Ridiculous
Mathew 15:9-----But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
Galatians 5
[SUP]1[/SUP]Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

Do you folks read the New Testament?

Do you know what the yoke of bondage is?

Do you understand verse 4 and what it is you all are arguing about?

I'm thinking probably no.

So how do we alleviate all this tedious arguing about things legalists and judaizers have no understanding of?
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
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Acts 15
[SUP]5 [/SUP]But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
[SUP]11 [/SUP]But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.


I suppose it must have been a really good dispute since its still going on 2000 yrs later. What was the conclusion of that dispute, by the way???
 
Jun 22, 2015
19
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Acts 15
[SUP]5 [/SUP]But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
[SUP]11 [/SUP]But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.


I suppose it must have been a really good dispute since its still going on 2000 yrs later. What was the conclusion of that dispute, by the way???

The conclusion of that dispute, if you allow the bible to interpret itself instead of inserting your own interpretation into it, was that the gentiles be issued 4 crucial commandments from the torah to start with, and learn the rest gradually since Moses was being taught in the synagogues every sabbath.

19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

If you ignore the part about Moses being taught in the synnagogues every sabbath, you would have to come to the ludicrous conclusion that the apostles only meant for the gentiles to keep those 4 starting commandments, and ignore all others. Meaning it would be ok to murder, steal, etc. All arguments about the torah being abolished are just as weak as this one. They require you to pluck small snippets out of Paul's letters, quote them out of context, and make up your own interpretation for them.
 
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prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
5,977
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The Catholic Church has services 365 days a year.
yes they have a name of a saint for everyday, someone else to worship to that special day for the dead.
 

KohenMatt

Senior Member
Jun 28, 2013
4,022
224
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Galatians 5
[SUP]1[/SUP]Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

Do you folks read the New Testament?

Do you know what the yoke of bondage is?

Do you understand verse 4 and what it is you all are arguing about?

I'm thinking probably no.

So how do we alleviate all this tedious arguing about things legalists and judaizers have no understanding of?
As always, the context of Paul's words is to those who keep the Law in order to be justified. And in that regard, I'm in complete agreement with what Paul is saying here.
But as always, the distinction needs to be made between those who keep the Law in order to be justified, and those who keep the Law out of loving obedience to our Savior with no thought of trying to gain more favor or standing with God.

This is a distinction that is often overlooked and leads to a lot of strife in the whole Law discussion.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
The conclusion of that dispute, if you allow the bible to interpret itself instead of inserting your own interpretation into it, was that the gentiles be issued 4 crucial commandments from the torah to start with, and learn the rest gradually since Moses was being taught in the synagogues every sabbath.

19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

If you ignore the part about Moses being taught in the synnagogues every sabbath, you would have to come to the ludicrous conclusion that the apostles only meant for the gentiles to keep those 4 starting commandments, and ignore all others. Meaning it would be ok to murder, steal, etc. All arguments about the torah being abolished are just as weak as this one. They require you to pluck small snippets out of Paul's letters, quote them out of context, and make up your own interpretation for them.
Crucial commandments? How crucial are they today? Not a big problem of animals being sacrificed to idols or of people eating animals that are strangled or drinking blood today, that I've seen.

Acts 15:10 [SUP] [/SUP]Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

And round and round we go...

Acts 15:24 [SUP] [/SUP]Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:


I could post whole Chapters and whole Books of Pauls letters and you wouldn't understand or read any of it.

We are not under law but under Grace. We are dead to the Law so we might live unto God.

Being under Grace doesn't mean its ok to murder or steal. Being under Grace means we don't rely on our own strength to keep the law. We rely on the Holy Spirit to keep us from being angry at our brother without a cause and to keep us from coveting our neighbors property.


By this Faith in Christ and the Holy Spirit we uphold the law.


Your own work and your own strength and your own understanding don't approach the work of God in us. You have to turn away from the work of God in order to turn to your own strength and your own understanding.

John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Galatians 5:9 A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.

Galatians 3
[SUP]2 [/SUP]This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? [SUP]3 [/SUP]Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?


Galatians 2:21 [SUP] [/SUP]I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Righteousness doesn't come by keeping the law??? I thought the law was the very definition of what sin is??? We can be righteous without the law??? When did this New Concept hit the books???


Don't you have faith in Christ?

James 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

1 Corinthians 4:7 For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it? (but earned it yourself, or created it yourself)