Sabbath Law and Rest

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Which view do you take?

  • God requires Christians to observe a Saturday Sabbath.

    Votes: 22 36.7%
  • God desires for Christians to observe a Saturday Sabbath.

    Votes: 10 16.7%
  • God desires for Christians to observe a weekly Sabbath, either Saturday or Sunday.

    Votes: 10 16.7%
  • God requires Christians to observe a Sunday Sabbath.

    Votes: 2 3.3%
  • God doesn't want us to worry about observing any Sabbath.

    Votes: 16 26.7%

  • Total voters
    60
S

sparkman

Guest
before you claim

the bible says I will not be a king or priest in future [first lie],

so now I will not be able to be a son of God?

who will be just like him


is father and son a part of a family unit
There is no license to assume that if the words Father and Son are used, that additional members will be added to the Godhead. The Godhead is only comprised of three Persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

If you stretch the language too far, it's nonsense. For instance, there is no Mother, so the family analogy breaks down at some point.
 
Nov 14, 2012
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mwc68, before you watch his video, be forwarned that the guy in the video is a disciple of Herbert Armstrong.

Armstrong was a cult leader who taught much heresy. While the arguments sound reasonable they can be refuted easily.

I was a member of their parent organization for over 10 years. Danel, who is eliwood, refers to their materials constantly.
Thanx for the heads up! :)
 
F

flob

Guest
Believers are adopted children of God and will reign with Christ. In fact, they already are
Believers are born of God by faith, Jn 1:12. Not adopted





To claim that believers will be literal children of God, like Jesus Christ, is the deception.
Literal...........meaning? Believers are veritable children of God, born of God, like Jesus Christ (Rm 8:15-16;
Jn 20:17), to whom we're conformed, and who is the Spirit in our spirit, Jn 7:37-39; 20:22; 2 Cor 3:17;
1 Cor 6:17).

Behold what manner of love the Father has given to us, that we should be called children of God; and we are.
1 Jn 3:1.






At some level we will be, but not ontologically. That is what Satan promised Adam and Eve..that they would be like God.
I'm not sure what ontologically means. If it means really, essentially, spiritually, actually, factually: yes we who have believed and received, are. The blindness is to say believers are adopted, not generated. Some of the silly, wicked, deceptions, like Moronism and Armstrong (blecch) are to suggest believers are separate Gods, or polytheism; or to become the Godhead!?; or to turn them from the spirit to the flesh.

Satan tempted Eve to be 'like God,' when she and Adam were already in the image of God, and were to be joined to the Only One True God by eating God, as represented by the tree of life. Which they failed to do first, and were barred to do second. Awaiting the justification by the promised seed of the woman, dying as a serpent in their place, thus opening the way to the tree of life that whoever wills may go in.
Gen 1:26; Jn 6:47-59; 15:5; 14:6; Rm 3:24; 5:18; Jn 3:14; 2 Cor 5:21; Rv 22:17; Jn 1:12; 17:2-3
 
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TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
3,868
1,221
113
Australia
I believe the Lord wants us to get a day of rest each week. I don't think he wants us to be legalistic about it. Just get a day of rest, or two half days, or four quarter days, or whatever. The sabbath is for our benefit. Remember what Jesus said:

[27] And he said to them, "The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath;
[28] so the Son of man is lord even of the sabbath." Mark 2:27-28 RSV
We can't do anything to earn Gods favour and that includes keeping the Sabbath perfectly Holy, because our righteousness is as filthy rages. But if God asks us to do something for him and we say no i'm going to do it my way i would call that rebellion. Heb_11:4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh. How many people died for their faith because they wouldn't compromise their belief. They were a witness because obedience was more important them life. The Sabbath is a witness that points the creator of the world, the saviour of the world, Jesus Christ. If you half do it or do it differently to the way You are asked, it doesn't work the same.
 
S

sparkman

Guest
I am not sure what you are saying, but if you are saying that you will be a God being in the resurrection, this is an error.

Believers will be like Christ, but it is blasphemous to say we will be members of the Godhead. And that is precisely what Armstrongism and Mormonism teaches.

Believers are born of God by faith, Jn 1:12. Not adopted






Literal...........meaning? Believers are veritable children of God, born of God, like Jesus Christ (Rm 8:15-16;
Jn 20:17), to whom we're conformed, and who is the Spirit in our spirit, Jn 7:37-39; 20:22; 2 Cor 3:17;
1 Cor 6:17).

Behold what manner of love the Father has given to us, that we should be called children of God; and we are.
1 Jn 3:1.







I'm not sure what ontologically means. If it means really, essentially, spiritually, actually, factually: yes we who have believed and received, are. The blindness is to say believers are adopted, not generated. Some of the silly, wicked, deceptions, like Moronism and Armstrong (blecch) are to suggest believers are separate Gods, or polytheism; or to become the Godhead!?; or to turn them from the spirit to the flesh.

Satan tempted Eve to be 'like God,' when she and Adam were already in the image of God, and were to be joined to the Only One True God by eating God, as represented by the tree of life. Which they failed to do first, and were barred to do second. Awaiting the justification by the promised seed of the woman, dying as a serpent in their place, thus opening the way to the tree of life that whoever wills may go in.
Gen 1:26; Jn 6:47-59; 15:5; 14:6; Rm 3:24; 5:18; Jn 3:14; 2 Cor 5:21; Rv 22:17; Jn 1:12; 17:2-3
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,421
6,700
113
Shabbat is also a gift........
 
P

phil112

Guest
Believers are born of God by faith, Jn 1:12. Not adopted..........................................
You would do well to study the bible before you start trying to speak of it with authority. Being born of the spirit is what makes us eligible for adoption.
Romans 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
Romans 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
Shabbat is also a gift........
Why do you resist the spirit so?
All you or anyone else ever needs to know about the law and the sabbath is in Galatians. Why do you not dwell on the new covenant, the one that replaced the old one because it is better?
I challenge you to study Galatians 4 and do it earnestly, so much so that God would approve.
Are you desirous of being an adopted son of God? You can't do it if you are under bondage to the law, and the sabbath is part of that law.
Galatians 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
That inheritance is only for adopted sons, and the sons of the bondwoman are not eligible.
 
S

sparkman

Guest
.
Are you desirous of being an adopted son of God? You can't do it if you are under bondage to the law, and the sabbath is part of that law.

That inheritance is only for adopted sons, and the sons of the bondwoman are not eligible.
This comment is interesting. At the end of Galatians 4, Paul actually said to cast out the children of the bondswomen..those who are desirous of being under the Law.

That seems to indicate he was telling the church at Colossae to simply expel those who were teaching the Judaizing doctrine.

Galatians 4: [SUP]28 [/SUP]Now you,[SUP][f][/SUP] brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise. [SUP]29 [/SUP]But just as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so also it is now. [SUP]30 [/SUP]But what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the slave woman and her son, for the son of the slave woman shall not inherit with the son of the free woman.” [SUP]31 [/SUP]So, brothers, we are not children of the slave but of the free woman.

Phil, I've mentioned that I was part of Worldwide Church of God. At different times I felt like my pastor was too strict when he moved our services from Saturday to Sunday and that he should have accomodated those who had sensitivities toward the Sabbath longer. Now, I think he was right in simply making the transition, even if it meant that those who had sensitivities to the Sabbath left.

I would base that view on these Scriptures. Basically Paul told the Galatians simply to get rid of the Judaizers from the congregation rather than continuing to deal with their insistence concerning their adherence to Old Covenant ceremonial and ritualistic elements.
 
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JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,421
6,700
113
Phil, you are really strettching it to accuse others. So I am resisting the Hol Spirit beacuse I repeated in my own words that God gave us the Sabbath as a day of resst from our mundane laabors?

That is a truly pitiful grab at control of the truth.

So, I will repeat what is from the Word again.

The Sabbath is also a gift.
 
S

sparkman

Guest
flob, in relation to this..just a few comments..

We will never be God in terms of our being or power. We will always worship God; we will not be objects of worship. We will be limited to a glorified body, and God is not limited to a glorified body. Yes, I know that Jesus Christ has a glorified body but that is not his full essence; he is both God and man in terms of nature.

Even angels are called "sons of God" but they are not God in terms of essence or ontology.

Scripture does say that we will be like Jesus Christ, but in what way? That doesn't extend to being one of the members of the Godhead. We will always be worshipers, not the worshipped. We will always be limited in comparison to God. We will always be created, and never the uncreated.

I think taking the Scriptural analogy of family relationship very far easily leads to conclusions like the Mormons and Armstrongites have made. For instance, the unofficial view of many within WCG was that they would be a ruler over their own planet, be an object of worship by the humans planted there, and may even have to die on the cross like Jesus Christ did.

In addition, because we will have a glorified body, that places us in a particular space. God is unlimited and is not limited to a particular space. He created the laws of space and time, and the view that he has a body that is limited to space and time is a juvenile view at best.

Think about this. God created everything that is, including the laws of space and time. Why would he need a body, whether it is "composed" of spirit or matter? Does he need a spiritual nose to breathe oxygen? Does he need spiritual hair to keep warm? Does he need spiritual legs to walk from one place to another? Does he need a spiritual arm or hands to pick things up?

Why would a being who created all things need such body parts? In addition, where did the "spirit" come from to compose his body?

These are things I had to struggle with as an Armstrongite as they taught a very anthropomorphic view of God. It is true that Scripture pictures God in this way, but it's more for communication purposes than the reality of his essence. It's a pretty juvenile view of God and his essence. But, God relates to us in ways we can understand...it would be like us trying to communicate our reality with an ant. He condescends down to our level to communicate to us in this way.

Those who are saved will be in some state of existence and being between the angels and God, but exactly what that state of being is remains to be seen.

Believers are born of God by faith, Jn 1:12. Not adopted






Literal...........meaning? Believers are veritable children of God, born of God, like Jesus Christ (Rm 8:15-16;
Jn 20:17), to whom we're conformed, and who is the Spirit in our spirit, Jn 7:37-39; 20:22; 2 Cor 3:17;
1 Cor 6:17).

Behold what manner of love the Father has given to us, that we should be called children of God; and we are.
1 Jn 3:1.







I'm not sure what ontologically means. If it means really, essentially, spiritually, actually, factually: yes we who have believed and received, are. The blindness is to say believers are adopted, not generated. Some of the silly, wicked, deceptions, like Moronism and Armstrong (blecch) are to suggest believers are separate Gods, or polytheism; or to become the Godhead!?; or to turn them from the spirit to the flesh.

Satan tempted Eve to be 'like God,' when she and Adam were already in the image of God, and were to be joined to the Only One True God by eating God, as represented by the tree of life. Which they failed to do first, and were barred to do second. Awaiting the justification by the promised seed of the woman, dying as a serpent in their place, thus opening the way to the tree of life that whoever wills may go in.
Gen 1:26; Jn 6:47-59; 15:5; 14:6; Rm 3:24; 5:18; Jn 3:14; 2 Cor 5:21; Rv 22:17; Jn 1:12; 17:2-3
 
Mar 4, 2013
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This comment is interesting. At the end of Galatians 4, Paul actually said to cast out the children of the bondswomen..those who are desirous of being under the Law.

That seems to indicate he was telling the church at Colossae to simply expel those who were teaching the Judaizing doctrine.

Galatians 4: [SUP]28 [/SUP]Now you,[SUP][f][/SUP] brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise. [SUP]29 [/SUP]But just as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so also it is now. [SUP]30 [/SUP]But what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the slave woman and her son, for the son of the slave woman shall not inherit with the son of the free woman.” [SUP]31 [/SUP]So, brothers, we are not children of the slave but of the free woman.

Phil, I've mentioned that I was part of Worldwide Church of God. At different times I felt like my pastor was too strict when he moved our services from Saturday to Sunday and that he should have accomodated those who had sensitivities toward the Sabbath longer. Now, I think he was right in simply making the transition, even if it meant that those who had sensitivities to the Sabbath left.

I would base that view on these Scriptures. Basically Paul told the Galatians simply to get rid of the Judaizers from the congregation rather than continuing to deal with their insistence concerning their adherence to Old Covenant ceremonial and ritualistic elements.
Hagar is an allegory, not a comparable analogy of rejection. This scripture mentioned is that the second is chosen over the first as in Ishmael and Issac, Jacob and Esau, Ephraim and Manasseh, Rachel and Leah (Jacobs 1st and 2nd wives), and lastly Christ over self works, including many other stories previously recorded in the Bible. There can be no 2nd if the 1st doesn't exist, then the 2nd would become the first, such as Cain and Abel.
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
5,977
400
83
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This guy is also another Armstrongite. He says that the rest of us are following a counterfeit Christianity. He won't admit it, but he thinks anyone that is not keeping the Sabbath is unsaved.
1 Corinthians 10:30 (KJV)
For if I by grace be a partaker, why am I evil spoken of for that for which I give thanks?


so you can not rebutt my post, but you continue to bash me and anyone else who says they believe
God gave his holy convocations or sabbath(s), and label us as colts.

I believe , and [the bible] says there would be false apostles from within the church,
also about changing laws, do you want me to give bible verses to show this line of thinking?
the book of Danial says it would be unsealed[known] when people go to and fro, and knowledge increased.


Did you know that the Roman Catholic Church have their own version of the Ten Commandments?
do you worship on the lords day? can you give me [a bible verse that changed] this day of worship?

so do you believe this mess of worlds religions are correct? or only the church you are in now.
so do you condem all those people in those splinter groups you label as cults?

you have judged them? you excommunated them from christien chat, is it fare that they
can not even post a rebuttal link from there church group? or you rat on them?

please give me an example of any sabbath keeper here on this forum,
who has condemened you to damanation and unsaved for not keeping the Sabbaths?

everyday you call them cults and unsaved, are you there judge even now?
please don't even try saying only those forceing sabbaths worship you hate,
you say that but every other word is proff you have some serious issues with sabbaths.



Jesus didn't nail God's Law to the cross, He nailed our sin debt to the cross. The Law is not sin.
Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not!

mabe you should go bing pagan sun worship and catholicism
pagan sun worship and catholicism - Bing



6He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written,
This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men,
as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.

9And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God,
that ye may keep your own tradition.

p.s. mabe you should check out the poll results current on this thread
 
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prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
5,977
400
83
63
There is no license to assume that if the words Father and Son are used, that additional members will be added to the Godhead. The Godhead is only comprised of three Persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

If you stretch the language too far, it's nonsense. For instance, there is no Mother, so the family analogy breaks down at some point.
-you ever hear of the church ? is there woman described in the bible anywhere?

Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things?
Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once?

for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.

And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun,
and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

- what is this other woman?

And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon,
having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT,
THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.


 
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S

sparkman

Guest
In regards to me banning anyone, I am unable to do so. The individual who was banned probably got banned because he kept posting Reformed Church of God videos, as well as memes indicating that non-Sabbathkeepers were going to eternal punishment. I don't speak for this chat site nor can I ban anyone. However, you don't need to worry about him because he comes back under other usernames so it's a waste of time for him to be banned anyways.

If you think multiple people have been banned, realize that they are all the same guy under different usernames and different user details. By the way, while claiming to be a great defender of the Law, he doesn't mind lying apparently. I asked him about that, and he thinks it's fine to thwart the "enemies of God". I suppose he considers me to be one of them. If he wasn't under such great deception from bad sources of information like Restored Church of God, it would be funny.

Regarding sun worship and Sunday, that fallacious argument has been presented for centuries. To say that someone who worships on Sunday is worshipping the sun is as fallacious as saying that you worship Saturn because you worship on Saturday. There is no history regarding pagans worshiping on Sunday, either. Your bing search would mostly bring up arguments from Sabbath conspiracy theory sources.

All those who have placed their faith in Christ alone are saved, and I do not reject the salvation of anyone from any church who has done that. God knows who has a relationship with him. Whether they are doctrinally confused or not doesn't define whether they are one of his children. If they are depending on the perfect sacrifice of Jesus Christ on their behalf, and not their works, then they are true believers. Even Sabbathkeepers of various types. I think some individuals don't have a real faith relationship with Christ, but I cannnot say who does and who does not. I was saved even while a member of Worldwide Church of God and under severe doctrinal error.

I don't attack Sabbathkeepers nor do I care if someone observes the Sabbath, It is their choice what they do with their Saturday. If Sabbath/festival/clean and unclean meat law observers try to proclaim it is a condition, requirement, or necessary fruit of salvation, then I have issues with that teaching and will counter it.

I won't allow other brothers and sisters in Christ to be judged for their nonobservance of these elements of the Old Covenant. As a former Sabbath and festival observer I know enough about the poor logic used by those who have taught these things to show them the problems in the reasoning.

In regards to those who have condemned me or others to eternal damnation, check this thread and the memes attached to it. The meme in question says something like "Depart from me, you who practice lawlessness". The intention of the poster was to convey the idea that those who aren't keeping the Old Covenant ceremonial and ritualistic elements like the Sabbath, Holy Days, and clean/unclean meats will be lost:

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/114682-unanswerable-questions-extended.html

In addition, check the language used on this thread which conveys utter disrespect for those who don't keep these elements of the Old Covenant, including emphasizing the phrases "ignorant and unstable":

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/114490-unanswerable-questions.html

I don't bash just any Sabbathkeeper as being part of a cult, but Armstrongites definitely are part of a cult. MarcR and I have had discussions about Sabbathkeeping. He is a Sabbath and festival observer, and attends a church that is similar to the denomination I attend. He does not do it because he thinks it is a requirement or condition or necessary fruit of salvation, though.

In addition, there are others that have a conscience about the Sabbath, but don't try to push it on others. I do not have any issue with them. If they observe the Sabbath due to their conscience, it's none of my business. Romans 14 gives them that liberality.

I am qualified to identify Armstrongism as a cult, having been a member of them for over a decade. Any group that claims they are going to be members of the Godhead in the resurrection, and that their group is the only group that is saved, is a cult. In addition, Armstrongism denies that there are other Christians outside of their group. I have no issue with saying their doctrine was an error and cultic.

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...rongism-forum-seventh-day-sabbathkeeping.html

In regards to the Roman Catholic church changing the day of worship, you may be able to find claims they made in that regard, but making claims doesn't make their assertions true. The reality is that the vast majority of Christians had migrated to meeting on Sunday way before that. I described this history here:

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...aulty-view-history-conspiracy-theories-3.html

The Roman Catholic Church claims Peter was the first pope as well..that doesn't make their claim true.

The idea that Constantine and the Roman Catholic church caused the Saturday to Sunday migration is untrue. The Catholic Church as we know it didn't exist until 450 AD and perhaps as late as 550 or 600 AD. Until then, it was simply a boastful bishopric out of several other bishoprics.

These conspiracy theories are the creations of groups like the Seventh Day Adventists and Seventh Day Baptists. Joseph Bates was a big contributor to this. He was the origin of the whole Mark of the Beast is Sunday Worship nonsense. Herbert Armstrong was taught his view on this through the Seventh Day Baptists.

By the way, you probably read the book History of the True Church by Andrew Dugger, who was a Seventh Day Baptist. Because he believed only Sabbathkeepers were saved, he tried to create a history of Sabbathkeepers from the apostolic church to his time.

Some of the groups that were supposedly Sabbathkeepers were actually Sunday keepers...they simply used the name Sabbath to refer to Sunday. In addition, some of the groups he claimed as part of the true church denied the full deity of Jesus Christ. He also claimed that Arius was a great defender of the true faith. Arius taught Arianism, which denies the full deity of Jesus Christ.

It is this sort of reasoning that is employed by many Sabbathkeepers in their justification for asserting that the Sabbath is a binding requirement upon Christians under the New Covenant.

Quoting verses out of context like you do doesn't prove your point either.

Let me ask a few questions to you:

1) If Sabbathbreaking is a sin, why isn't it listed on any of the sin lists to the Gentiles in the epistles?
2) Why does John refer to the Passover and Feast of Tabernacles as "feasts of the Jews" in the gospel of John?
John 6:4 and 7:2 are two of those references.
3) Colossians 2:16-17 says that the Sabbaths and annual festivals are shadows. Hebrews 10:1-2 uses similar language with regards to animal sacrifices, calling them mere shadows whose reality is Christ. If Hebrews 10:1-2 clearly identifies animal sacrifices as mere shadows, implying relative insignificance to the Reality, which is Christ, why do you think that they apply to New Covenant Christians?
4) Why does Mark 7:19 say that Christ declared all foods clean, if you claim that the clean and unclean meat laws still
apply?


1 Corinthians 10:30 (KJV)
For if I by grace be a partaker, why am I evil spoken of for that for which I give thanks?


so you can not rebutt my post, but you continue to bash me and anyone else who says they believe
God gave his holy convocations or sabbath(s), and label us as colts.

I believe , and [the bible] says there would be false apostles from within the church,
also about changing laws, do you want me to give bible verses to show this line of thinking?
the book of Danial says it would be unsealed[known] when people go to and fro, and knowledge increased.


Did you know that the Roman Catholic Church have their own version of the Ten Commandments?
do you worship on the lords day? can you give me [a bible verse that changed] this day of worship?

so do you believe this mess of worlds religions are correct? or only the church you are in now.
so do you condem all those people in those splinter groups you label as cults?

you have judged them? you excommunated them from christien chat, is it fare that they
can not even post a rebuttal link from there church group? or you rat on them?

please give me an example of any sabbath keeper here on this forum,
who has condemened you to damanation and unsaved for not keeping the Sabbaths?

everyday you call them cults and unsaved, are you there judge even now?
please don't even try saying only those forceing sabbaths worship you hate,
you say that but every other word is proff you have some serious issues with sabbaths.



Jesus didn't nail God's Law to the cross, He nailed our sin debt to the cross. The Law is not sin.
Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not!

mabe you should go bing pagan sun worship and catholicism
pagan sun worship and catholicism - Bing



6He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written,
This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men,
as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.

9And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God,
that ye may keep your own tradition.

p.s. mabe you should check out the poll results current on this thread
 
S

sparkman

Guest
I could take that same set of verses and apply them to Armstrongism.

Perhaps the daughters of the great prostitute are the other Armstrongite churches.

Implying that this great prostitute is the Catholic church and her children are Protestant churches only works if you are a cult that claims to be outside of Protestantism, like Worldwide Church of God did.

So, if you are saying that this great prostitute is the Roman Catholic Church and that Protestants are her harlot children, isn't that the same thing as declaring all Roman Catholics and Protestants, including the people here, as unbelievers who are following a false Christianity?

Answer that question plainly.

Do you think that any non-Sabbathkeeping Roman Catholics or Protestants are Christians, who are in a faith relationship with Jesus Christ?

-you ever hear of the church ? is there woman described in the bible anywhere?

Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things?
Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once?

for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.

And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun,
and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

- what is this other woman?

And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon,
having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT,
THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.


 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,421
6,700
113
People speak of the law and commandment concerning the Seventh Day, ignoring that our Father did give the Seventh Day as a day to be with Him and rest from 6 days of labor.

Argue all you need to about how to, but the fact is the Seventh Day is designated by God, not by man. The Seventh Day will always follow the sixth day, an dit will alway sbe the precursor to the same promises in the same order.

I will continue to observe the Seventh Day on the Seven Day because God rested , then gave me that same day to rest; it is a privilege........Go to church any day you want.
 

prove-all

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May 16, 2014
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I could take that same set of verses and apply them to Armstrongism.

Perhaps the daughters of the great prostitute are the other Armstrongite churches.
- thats funny, the beast is a kingdom , not a man who is dead allready


SHALL WEAR OUT THE SAINTS OF THE MOST HIGH


Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb,
and he spake as a dragon.


2Co 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
2Co 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
2Co 11:15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

Rev 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them
which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
Rev 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

Rev 17:3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon
a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
Rev 17:4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

Blasphemous doctrines full her cup.

Rev 17:5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
she has protesting daughters.

Rev 17:6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
She will incite persecution and martyrdom of God's true saints.

Rev 17:7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.

She rides the Beast during seven revivals, the last one being comprised of ten kings or nations...

Rev 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains,
on which the woman sitteth.
Rev 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come;
and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
Rev 17:11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
Rev 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
Rev 17:13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
Rev 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

-this occurs at the return of Christ...

Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Rev 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Rev 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
Rev 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
Rev 19:18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Rev 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse,
which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

Note the Beast and False Prophet are burned to death in the Lake of Fire but the armies are slaughtered by the sword



Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God,

and the faith of Jesus.
 
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Elom

Guest
It's a widely held belief that the Great Whore in Revelation is the Vatican. It matches every description. She "sits on many waters", introduced countless paganistic abominations into christianity, has persecuted the saints, banned the Bible in the middle ages, and has committed fornication with the kings of the earth.

The "harlot daughters" that came out of her are likely the protestant churches. Most of the catholic churche's heresies carried over to them.

So it should be of no suprise that none of these churches obey the sabbath command, and instead honor sunday.
 
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sparkman

Guest
It's a widely held belief by Sabbathkeepers, including Armstrongites and Seventh Day Adventists.

By the way, I see you have a new username.

It's a widely held belief that the Great Whore in Revelation is the Vatican. It matches every description. She "sits on many waters", introduced countless paganistic abominations into christianity, has persecuted the saints, banned the Bible in the middle ages, and has committed fornication with the kings of the earth.

The "harlot daughters" that came out of her are likely the protestant churches. Most of the catholic churche's heresies carried over to them.

So it should be of no suprise that none of these churches obey the sabbath command, and instead honor sunday.
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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In regards to me banning anyone, I am unable to do so.
but you wish you could, any hint of something you dislike, you run telling the mods about it.

it you had it your way, this would be an only orthodox chat site , you claimed it was once