Sabbath Law and Rest

[john832]

I don't reject Paul. I believe every word he says. Every word he says lines up with Jesus', the original source.

Jesus's words are the original truth. Paul's words agree with Him. But if it comes down to believing what we "think" Paul said when that view contradicts Jesus' words, I'll believe Jesus words first, and then see how Paul's words must line up with them.

A very cogent point. I think that some people may forget who the Author of salvation is...

Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Heb 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Another point often overlooked...

2Pe 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

So, if there arises even the smallest question about what Paul is saying, we should go to Christ first. All of Paul's statements must (and do) harmonize with what Christ said. We interpret what Paul said by first of all what Christ said. One cannot just pick out a verse or a passage of scripture and build a doctrine on it...

Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
Isa 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
We must search out all fo the scriptures on a subject and put them together and then remember this overriding principle, there is no contradiction in the scriptures...

Joh 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

If we think there is a contradiction, then our understanding is at fault.

 

[chubbena]

What does your first sentence have to do with how a Christian chooses to worship or how a christian decides to keep the sabbath... it's like when I ask a JW to tell me how their sins are forgiven and they want to break into some silliness about the cross being a torture stake and Christ's hands being above His head! I'm like what?! What does that have to do with the gospel message?! and the forgiveness of your sins.

I was answering the OP. Whether Sunday worship is right or wrong it was a tradition carried over from Roman Catholics. I know because I was RC. If one reads the history of Christianity one would see that too.

Chubbena,

What is the gospel of our salvation, this gospel given by Christ to our apostle Paul that he says in Scripture he, "when up by revelation, and communicated unto them" who were at Jerusalem.

If you read enough of the debates here in the forum regarding Sabbath keeping, you should know not many consider Sabbath keeping could save. On the other hand, not keeping the Sabbath does not prove anything. Question I want to ask you is, do you rest physically? If you do, how often? If I do, must I not choose to rest on Saturday to prove I'm a genuine Christian who is saved by grace and not by works?

This is the order of things, pretaining to the house of Moses. It has also been said, this is why Christ said what He did about the Father only knowing the day and hour and not the Son, in Matthew 24.

It would help to explain your point if you provide scripture verses.

I have plenty of experience with religious sabbath keepers. Let us first identify our gospel and then we will see where we stand with access to the Father

It's some biased statement. You have assumed Sabbath keepers are religious in a negative way already, haven't you?

 

[chubbena]

Some people think that I have gone full on "Hebrew Roots" because of my recent Sabbath observances. I feel that I must clarify why I have been doing this:

i don't feel that I've put myself under the Law, but just am testing if there is any blessing in Saturday Sabbath.

It's not that I feel I must, but just that I wanted to either disprove or prove that a Saturday Sabbath holds any blessing for Christians.

It's just a test, not a conversion to the Law.

Problem is, you won't be able to prove either way because whether you feel blessed is a personal experience.
Testing, on the other hand, is dangerous when it comes to His Word because in Him there's no uncertainty - you are either convicted by His Word or you are not.
Conversion to the Law - About 200 years ago the "church" considered Sunday Christian Sabbath. I'm sure you know well from Spurgeon, Moody, Watson and the like. About 2000 years ago the "church" considered Sabbath, well, Sabbath. So I'd say it has nothing to do with the Law but everything to do with the changes in life style.
I speak as a brother.

 

[john832]

Someone told you that the law was abolished?

Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Apparently you have not been reading danschance's posts my friend.

 

[JaumeJ]

There is a danger in putting this to the test, for it is like testing God, and no flesh is capable of putting Him or His Word to the test.

I do not believe you mean it in that manner, but trying it. But you must be Hebrew Roots to do such a thing. I mean, just because it is the day God chose as a gift to His children has no bearing on it. It is too Jewish.

Observing the Seventh Day by no means translates as one may not got to his or her church of choice on Sundays; it is simply a wonderful thing to do, for me anyway.

No, you are not Hebrew Roots, neither am I, but I believe all in Jesus Christ, Yeshua, share the faith of Abraham. How could we not?

Some people think that I have gone full on "Hebrew Roots" because of my recent Sabbath observances. I feel that I must clarify why I have been doing this:

i don't feel that I've put myself under the Law, but just am testing if there is any blessing in Saturday Sabbath.

It's not that I feel I must, but just that I wanted to either disprove or prove that a Saturday Sabbath holds any blessing for Christians.

It's just a test, not a conversion to the Law.

 

[john832]

Some people think that I have gone full on "Hebrew Roots" because of my recent Sabbath observances. I feel that I must clarify why I have been doing this:

i don't feel that I've put myself under the Law, but just am testing if there is any blessing in Saturday Sabbath.

It's not that I feel I must, but just that I wanted to either disprove or prove that a Saturday Sabbath holds any blessing for Christians.

It's just a test, not a conversion to the Law.

Not sure what you mean "a conversion to the Law", I am not converted to Law. Christ and His grace is what I believe in and am converted to. I do believe that obedience is something that He asks of us, but salvation comes through Christ and His sacrifice for us. What the Law does is tell us what sin is and what it is not...

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, "YOU SHALL NOT COVET."

The Law is nto something to worship, it is something to obey.

At any rate, God bless you in your endeavor to keep His Sabbath day.

 

[Praus]

Apparently you have not been reading danschance's posts my friend.

Danschance teaches against James 2? Really?

James 2:8-9 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

 

[john832]

Danschance teaches against James 2? Really?

James 2:8-9 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

My friend, there is but one Law, there is not the Law of Christ, the Royal Law and the Ten Commandments Law. God gave one set of instructions and then in the New Covenant, wirtes them on our hearts and minds. If I can run across the posts he made, he has said on many occaisions that nine of the Ten Commandments are in force, but the fourth one is done away. Seem difficult to me to separate them. The stand or fall together.

 

[Hizikyah]

Exodus 20:6, "But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws."

Mattithyah 22:37, "Yahshua said to him: You must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might."

1 Corinthians 2:9, "But as it is written: Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the mind of man the things which Yahweh has prepared for those who love Him."

1 Yahchanan 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yahweh: When we love Yahweh by keeping His Laws. For this is the love of Yahweh: That we keep His Law, and His Law is not grievous."

 

[john832]

Danschance teaches against James 2? Really?

James 2:8-9 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

Just a couple...

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/82418-attack-judaizers-101.html#post1386477

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/84140-dead-law-5.html#post1385808

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/84140-dead-law-4.html#post1385794

 

[WomanLovesTX]

Some people think that I have gone full on "Hebrew Roots" because of my recent Sabbath observances. I feel that I must clarify why I have been doing this:

i don't feel that I've put myself under the Law, but just am testing if there is any blessing in Saturday Sabbath.

It's not that I feel I must, but just that I wanted to either disprove or prove that a Saturday Sabbath holds any blessing for Christians.

It's just a test, not a conversion to the Law.

Why not conversion to the all ten commandments with conviction?

I hope the blessing you find is you are doing well financially without working on the Sabbath. That you know God is blessing you with a miracle of not having to work for a living on Sabbath. I hope your week is filled each day with a mindset of looking forward to the Sabbath.

 

[danschance]

Danschance teaches against James 2? Really?

James 2:8-9 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

That would be news if it were true. lol

 

[danschance]

Then there is no sin, which is transgression of the law, is that what you are saying?

I never said that. We are under the law of Christ, which are moral laws. The NT comments on many laws we must obey. We must even obey the goverment (Romans 13). No one is claiming no laws or lawlessness except those who think the Mosaic laws are still valid. Yet many of those will not even follow all of the Mosaic laws!

 

[danschance]

Originally Posted by Praus

Someone told you that the law was abolished?

Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law​

​

Apparently you have not been reading danschance's posts my friend.

I have never stated we are not under law. I have stated we are not under the Mosaic laws and this is true. Christ either has or will fulfill the ceremonial laws of the Mosaic laws. (Matt 5:17-20)

Specifically this means:
1) Circumcision of the foreskin is obsolete. It now becomes circumcision of the heart. (Rom 2:28-29)
2) Animal sacrifice is obsolete. Christ is the final sacrifice. (Heb 10:1-18)
3) The temple in Jerusalem is obsolete. Now the body of believers are the temple of the Holy Spirit. (1Cor. 6:19)
4) The priesthood that stood between the Jews and God is obsolete. Jesus now stands between the believer and God and mediates for us as high priest. (Heb 7:23-24)
5) The old law of "Kosher" foods is obsolete. (Mark 7:18-19)
6) The idea that gentiles were not clean is obsolete. (Act 10:27-28)
7) Sabbath is obsolete. Christ is now our sabbath rest.

Yet some here claim the Mosaic laws are still in effect yet they will also admit what I have typed above is also true, that some parts of the Mosaic law is obsolete.

We follow Christ's words and example. Paul states we are under the law of Christ (1 Cor 9:21) and we certainly are.

 

[Hizikyah]

5) The old law of "Kosher" foods is obsolete. (Mark 7:18-19)
6) The idea that gentiles were not clean is obsolete. (Act 10:27-28)
7) Sabbath is obsolete. Christ is now our sabbath rest.

So some of the other things you said, I do agree with but I have to reply:

Mark 7:18-19, the words "thus Jesus declared all foods clean." Is not in the original greek text, this is a deliberate forgery. Also food is not even the context the the passage, a hand washing ritual is.

2. Act 10:27-28, Kepha (Peter) grew up under pharisee rule, anyone that knows the Law of Yahweh knows there is not a single line of text declaring non-Hebrews as unclean, in fact just the opposite:

Leviticus 19:34, "The stranger living with you must be treated as one of your native-born, and you shall love him as yourself; for you were strangers in the land of Egypt. I am Yahweh."

Numbers 15:15-16, "One ordinance shall be for you of the congregation, and for the stranger who sojourns with you, as an ordinance forever throughout your generations. As you are, so shall the stranger be in front of Yahweh. One Law and one manner shall be for you and for the stranger who sojourns with you."

3. Do you have a verse that says the Sabbath is no longer the 7th day?

 

[Praus]

My friend, there is but one Law, there is not the Law of Christ, the Royal Law and the Ten Commandments Law. God gave one set of instructions and then in the New Covenant, wirtes them on our hearts and minds. If I can run across the posts he made, he has said on many occaisions that nine of the Ten Commandments are in force, but the fourth one is done away. Seem difficult to me to separate them. The stand or fall together.

Ok, I'll check this out. One question though, if there's only one Law, why does Heb 7 refer to a change in the Law?

Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

 

[Spokenpassage]

This is Hebrews 7:11-22 NASB in its very context


Now if perfection was through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the people received the Law), what further need was there for another priest to arise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be designated according to the order of Aaron?

For when the priesthood is changed, of necessity there takes place a change of law also.

For the one concerning whom these things are spoken belongs to another tribe, from which no one has officiated at the altar. For it is evident that our Lord was descended from Judah, a tribe with reference to which Moses spoke nothing concerning priests.

And this is clearer still, if another priest arises according to the likeness of Melchizedek, who has become such not on the basis of a law of physical requirement, but according to the power of an indestructible life. For it is attested of Him, "You are a priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek ."

For, on the one hand, there is a setting aside of a former commandment because of its weakness and uselessness (for the Law made nothing perfect), and on the other hand there is a bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God.

And inasmuch as it was not without an oath (for they indeed became priests without an oath, but He with an oath through the One who said to Him, "The Lord has sworn and will not change His mind, 'You are a priest forever '"); so much the more also Jesus has become the guarantee of a better covenant.

 

[Spokenpassage]

I believe the chapter is best at its very context along with the book.

 

[Veritas]

Covenants, of course, the Hebrew is בְּרִית.

Was king Melchizedek under the Abrahamic covenants in Gen 17?

I will ask you a question, has the Noahic covenant been done away with? Is the Earth going to be flooded again and made null by the Abramic covenant?

Has the Abramic covenant been done away with because of the Mosaic covenant?

And was the Mosaic covenant done away with because of the Davidic covenant?

What about the Adamic covenant, to take dominion over the Earth and to subdue it, be fruitful and multiply, to steward it, to tend it, has that been done away with?

 

[Veritas]

Ok, I'll check this out. One question though, if there's only one Law, why does Heb 7 refer to a change in the Law?

Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

There are 613 commandments. All of those that have to do with the Priesthood, the Temple and the Land are in an altered form, in different ways. The Temple was destroyed in 70CE. Y'shua is the High Priest and performing all priestly duties in the Heavenlies. And the children of Israel have been dispersed, most of us are not IN the Land.

Those commandments that are left, we should follow, I think starting with The 10, the others as He lays them on our hearts and convicts, always keeping that lump in our throats, remembering what He has delivered us from, in all humility and love and reverence shown to our Deliverer Y'shua.