Dead to the law

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Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
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#81
Once you have made a conclusion based on error, all other extrapolated conclusions are also wrong.

We are currently under the law of Christ (1 Cor 9:21) not the Mosaic laws (Rom 7:6). This means we are not to obey the former ceremonial laws but we are all held to the moral laws of God.
Where do you have the 10 Commandments (literally spoken by the mouth of the Most High) falling under,

moral? or Ceremonial?
 
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danschance

Guest
#82
Where do you have the 10 Commandments (literally spoken by the mouth of the Most High) falling under,

moral? or Ceremonial?
9 of the 10 commandments are moral laws. One of the 10 commandments is a ceremonial law.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#83
9 of the 10 commandments are moral laws. One of the 10 commandments is a ceremonial law.
OK, so its that pesky 4th Commandment.

What do you think about the Laws against homosexuality, bestiality, and sorcery (pharmakiea)?

I mean do you think those are still valid and in effect?
 
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danschance

Guest
#84
OK, so its that pesky 4th Commandment.

What do you think about the Laws against homosexuality, bestiality, and sorcery (pharmakiea)?

I mean do you think those are still valid and in effect?
Love God and love your neighbor. The NT speaks against the sins you listed. Not sure why you are even asking about them.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#85
Love God and love your neighbor. The NT speaks against the sins you listed. Not sure why you are even asking about them.
I was curious if you thought any part of Yahweh;s Law was valid or profitable.

Honestly with a lot of your remarks I was unsure of your stance. Just being honest.

We have all Sacrificed Messiah so we have sacrificed.

and priesthood is being carried out by the Messiah right now and forever.

So is it only the Sabbath/Feasts you think is changed or done away?
 
May 15, 2013
4,307
27
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#86
I can't see that how a person cannot see that Homosexuality is a mental or a hormonal imbalance problem. People just don't get out of their bed and say that they are going to try out the same sex for a while. Some how something went wrong with the person mind, like a person that has dyslexia which that person perception is different from the average person. I know that homosexuals doesn't want to be consider as a mentally challenge person like every other mentally challenge person doesn't like to be given that title. And to the ones that has been abandoned in a relationship, and they start practicing homosexuality because they are afraid of being hurt again by someone that they love, but still that is an mental and a emotional problem as well. These people need of healing, but since we are all lacking faith, we feel that they cannot be heal.
We has morphodites or hermaphrodites that are born in this world, but we doesn't condemn them to hell? But they had in the past. Maybe the dietary laws were meant to help the person to develop properly; but some of the people love to eat snails and lobsters and etc..., and maybe these species causes an hormonal imbalance and which effect are development. So I guess we will never know since we came up with our own analysis on homosexuality.
 
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danschance

Guest
#87
I was curious if you thought any part of Yahweh;s Law was valid or profitable.

Honestly with a lot of your remarks I was unsure of your stance. Just being honest.

We have all Sacrificed Messiah so we have sacrificed.

and priesthood is being carried out by the Messiah right now and forever.

So is it only the Sabbath/Feasts you think is changed or done away?
1) If by "Yahweh;s Law" you mean The law of Christ then yes they are valid.

2) If by "Yahweh;s Law" you mean the Mosaic laws then no, they are not valid nor of any benefit to the NT believer.

3) "We have all Sacrificed Messiah so we have sacrificed." I can't recall a verse that states this. Instead, John 3:16 states that God gave His only Son so that we can be saved.

4) "
So is it only the Sabbath/Feasts you think is changed or done away?" I would not state it that way but that is what it is. I would say the Mosaic law has no hold on NT believers (Rom 7:6) as the NT believer is under the law of Christ (1 Cor 9:21). The law of Christ is the moral laws also found in the OT.
 
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danschance

Guest
#88
I can't see that how a person cannot see that Homosexuality is a mental or a hormonal imbalance problem. People just don't get out of their bed and say that they are going to try out the same sex for a while. Some how something went wrong with the person mind, like a person that has dyslexia which that person perception is different from the average person. I know that homosexuals doesn't want to be consider as a mentally challenge person like every other mentally challenge person doesn't like to be given that title. And to the ones that has been abandoned in a relationship, and they start practicing homosexuality because they are afraid of being hurt again by someone that they love, but still that is an mental and a emotional problem as well. These people need of healing, but since we are all lacking faith, we feel that they cannot be heal.
We has morphodites or hermaphrodites that are born in this world, but we doesn't condemn them to hell? But they had in the past. Maybe the dietary laws were meant to help the person to develop properly; but some of the people love to eat snails and lobsters and etc..., and maybe these species causes an hormonal imbalance and which effect are development. So I guess we will never know since we came up with our own analysis on homosexuality.
The bible calls Homosexuality sin. I never "came up with our)my) own analysis on homosexuality". So your argument is with God not Christians.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,742
3,670
113
#89
NO one is saying that keeping the Law justifies one, we are justified by His blood. Being justified does not do away with the need to obey.
''Need to obey''. Need to obey in order to ??
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,742
3,670
113
#90
Correct crossnote, we are not justified by a law we cannot obey perfectly as did Jesus. But this does not mean we are at liberty to ignore, and therefore transgress this law (i.e., to abuse our pardon). Jesus clearly warned against this. It is why he will say "...in that day" (Matt. 7:22), "...I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity" (Matt. 7:23). "Iniquity," Strong's #458, is lawlessness. This also, is what the apostle John warned against when he reminded us that "...sin is the transgression of the law" (1 John 3:4). Your interpretation of "law," and opinion of it, implies that we are not to live by every word that procedeth out of the mouth of God, and/or that all scripture is not profitable...for instruction in righteousness. Crossnote, you need to compare what the Dispensationalist-Futurist establishment is feeding you to what Jesus and the Bible writers said regarding the perpetuity of the Law of the Lord. Have you not considered as to why Psalm 119, the longest chapter in the Bible is emphasizing the Law of the Lord. And how about Psalm 1, this, the Law of the Lord, is the law Jesus walked in. And we are supposed to walk "as he walked" (i.e., in the Law of the Lord). Sorry crossnote, but you have been tempted, and have fallen, for that which Jesus clearly warned of. Please read Matt. 5:17-20 and Matt. 7:21-23 for the consequences of lawlessness.
The Spirit of Christ has given me a new life with His desires and nature. I can live according to those desires or the lust of the flesh. I choose by God's grace the former for I am not under law but under grace. Those without God's Spirit obviously haven't a clue.
 
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Laodicea

Guest
#91
Romans 7:12-14 KJV
(12) Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
(13) Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
(14) For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.


It must be noted that the problem is not with the law of God.

No, that is simply your own opinion.

This verse explains it quite well.

But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code. Romans 7:6 ESV

1) We are released from the law, but which law is this verse refering to?
2) It is refering to the law which held us captive--which is the Mosaic laws.

Problem: Square peg in round hole.
Solution: Get a bigger hammer and pound harder.
This is your response to the above post. Do you disagree with the Bible that the law is good?
 
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phil112

Guest
#92
The Spirit of Christ has given me a new life with His desires and nature. I can live according to those desires or the lust of the flesh. I choose by God's grace the former for I am not under law but under grace. Those without God's Spirit obviously haven't a clue.
Amen!!!!!!!!!
 
May 15, 2013
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#93
The bible calls Homosexuality sin. I never "came up with our)my) own analysis on homosexuality". So your argument is with God not Christians.
Were they sinners?

Matthew 8:28
When he arrived at the other side in the region of the Gadarenes, two demon-possessed men coming from the tombs met him. They were so violent that no one could pass that way.

John 13:27
As soon as Judas took the bread, Satan entered into him. So Jesus told him, “What you are about to do, do quickly.”

They had believed that when there's something went wrong with a person, they was considered to be demon possess. They believed that in order for a demon to have had enter a person, that person must of sinned to be possessed, like in the story of Job, his friends had thought that Job was a sinner in order for him to be under a curse. And yes, the Bible does say that homosexual is a sin, but it also has said that if we say to our brothers, "You fool", is endanger of being in hell. But nobody doesn't care about that sinful act, because God know that we makes mistakes and He will forgive us anyway. But those homosexuals, we can't even stand for them to be in our presence, that sin is to nasty, but our sins are clean and neat. If you ever been around a orthodox jew, they think that we pork eaters are so discussing and believe that we will all burn forever. They wonder how can we do such a thing and eat something so foul. They wouldn't even shake a pig eaters hands, they think that they are sick.

John 9:1 As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. 2 His disciples asked him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?”


3 “Neither this man nor his parents sinned,” said Jesus, “but this happened so that the works of God might be displayed in him.
 
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Laodicea

Guest
#94
We are dead to the Mosaic law. Romans 7:6 is a clear reference to the Mosaic law. Galatians 2:15, Paul is speaking to Jews, so again this is the Mosaic law. Read it in context and ask God to show you the truth otherwise these scriptures will simply allude you or you will twist them like a pretzel to fit your own "truth" and not God's truth.
Romans 7:6 KJV
(6) But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Romans 6:4 KJV
(4) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.


Romans 7:6 talks about serving in newness of spirit Romans 6:4 talks about walking in newness of life. So it is clear it is the same info spoken in a different way


Romans 6:6-7 KJV
(6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
(7) For he that is dead is freed from sin.


So we are to be dead to sin and walk in newness of life
 
Jul 27, 2011
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#95
Leviticus 20:1 says, And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying. Then in verse 2 the Word says, who He was saying it to. Whosoever he be of the children of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn in Israel. It doesn't say to the Jews only. i just can't see in the Word, that the Father was speaking to the Jews only, as some keep saying.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,365
186
63
#97
Once you have made a conclusion based on error, all other extrapolated conclusions are also wrong.

We are currently under the law of Christ (1 Cor 9:21) not the Mosaic laws (Rom 7:6). This means we are not to obey the former ceremonial laws but we are all held to the moral laws of God.
And your conclusion is that ...

Exo 20:1 And (1)God spoke all these words, saying:
Exo 20:2 "I am the (2)LORD your (3)God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

(1) God here...

H430
אלהים
'ĕlôhı̂ym
el-o-heem'
Plural of H433; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative: - angels, X exceeding, God (gods) (-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty.

(2)LORD here...

H3068
יהוה
yehôvâh
yeh-ho-vaw'
From H1961; (the) self Existent or eternal; Jehovah, Jewish national name of God: - Jehovah, the Lord. Compare H3050, H3069.

(3) God here...

H430
אלהים
'ĕlôhı̂ym
el-o-heem'
Plural of H433; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative: - angels, X exceeding, God (gods) (-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty.

is referring to Moses? My suggestion is that you go back and reread your statement about a conclusion based on error.

As far as who this is speaking the Ten Commandments...

1Co 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
1Co 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
1Co 10:3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

I am pretty sure you don't know what you are talking about.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,365
186
63
#98
Leviticus 20:1 says, And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying. Then in verse 2 the Word says, who He was saying it to. Whosoever he be of the children of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn in Israel. It doesn't say to the Jews only. i just can't see in the Word, that the Father was speaking to the Jews only, as some keep saying.
You are absolutely correct here.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,365
186
63
#99
Originally Posted by danschance
We are dead to the Mosaic law. Romans 7:6 is a clear reference to the Mosaic law. Galatians 2:15, Paul is speaking to Jews, so again this is the Mosaic law. Read it in context and ask God to show you the truth otherwise these scriptures will simply allude you or you will twist them like a pretzel to fit your own "truth" and not God's truth.

Romans 7:6 KJV
(6) But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Romans 6:4 KJV
(4) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.


Romans 7:6 talks about serving in newness of spirit Romans 6:4 talks about walking in newness of life. So it is clear it is the same info spoken in a different way


Romans 6:6-7 KJV
(6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
(7) For he that is dead is freed from sin.


So we are to be dead to sin and walk in newness of life
Well, Laodicea my friend, here is the problem...


Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
 
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danschance

Guest
Romans 7:6 KJV
(6) But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Romans 6:4 KJV
(4) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.


Romans 7:6 talks about serving in newness of spirit Romans 6:4 talks about walking in newness of life. So it is clear it is the same info spoken in a different way


Romans 6:6-7 KJV
(6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
(7) For he that is dead is freed from sin.


So we are to be dead to sin and walk in newness of life
Pure scripture twisting. You are forcing these scriptures to say something they do not say.