Sabbath

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Nov 22, 2015
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Jesus was the greatest law preacher and at the same time the greatest grace preacher.

To those that think they are living by the law of Moses and thus are self-righteous - He gave them the law. Such as the rich ruler who said that he kept the law all hid life. Yet , Jesus showed that he really had broken the very 1st commandment for he had money over God.

To those that knew they needed a Savior - He gave them grace.

The law is NOT for the righteous. We are the righteous because we are in Christ. He who knew no sin, became sin so that we could become the righteousness of God in Him.

A failure to understand this and we go back to the letter of the law to find life is deserting Christ Himself just as Paul said.

Galatians 1:6-7 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]
I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel;

[SUP]7 [/SUP] which is really not another; onlythere are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.

This in Acts was the beginning of the rise of the Judaizers that say we are to Keep the law of Moses.

Acts 15:5 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] But some of the sect of the Pharisees who had believed stood up, saying, "It is necessary to circumcise them and to direct them to observe the Law of Moses."


Acts 15:10-11 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] "Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?

[SUP]11 [/SUP] "But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are."



Titus 3:9 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and strife and disputes about the Law, for they are unprofitable and worthless.



Christ Himself is our life now. We have died to the law so that we could be joined to Another - Christ Himself. Rom. 7:1-6 & Col. 3:3
 
Nov 22, 2015
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Here is a more thorough teaching on the law and Jesus being the greatest preacher of it. I like this site as we can ask questions at the bottom of the article and I often learn much from there.

The Greatest Law Preacher

"Don’t stray too far from the red letters,” is a piece of advice often given to new preachers. It means, stay close to the teachings of Jesus and you can’t go wrong. It sounds good, but it’s actually bad advice. Everything Jesus said was good and wonderful, but not everything He said was meant for you.

Read the red letters of your Bible and you will find both stories of unprecedented grace and merciless declarations of law. Mix these messages and you will end up confused and double-minded.

The solution is not to balance law and grace – you can’t – but to filter everything you read through the finished work of the cross. To make sense of what Jesus said, you need to understand
what Jesus did and why.

Jesus lived under law

Jesus lived at the crossroads of two covenants. As humanity’s representative He came to fulfill the old law-keeping covenant in order that we might relate to God through a new and better covenant forged in His blood. Since the new covenant could not begin before He died, Jesus lived all of His pre-cross life under the old covenant of the law:

But when the time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under law, to redeem those under law, that we might receive the full rights of sons. (Gal 4:4-5)

Jesus was born under law, circumcised by law, and presented in the temple according to the law. Every Jewish person that Jesus met was also born under law. We need to keep this in mind when we read the red letters of Jesus.

What law did Jesus preach?

To those under the law, Jesus preached the pure and unadulterated Law of Moses. When religious people came to trap him with theological puzzles, Jesus would respond with, “What did Moses command you?” (Mk 10:3).

If someone asked, “What is the greatest commandment in the law,” Jesus would provide an answer from the law (Mt 22:36). In His law-keeping ministry, Jesus honored the Law of Moses:

The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. (Mt 23:2-3)

Since the law-teachers often made Jesus angry, we might conclude that Jesus was opposed to the law. He was not. Jesus had no problem with what the Pharisees were preaching. “Do everything they tell you.” What really burnt His toast was their hypocrisy – they weren’t practicing what they preached:

Has not Moses given you the law? Yet not one of you keeps the law. (Joh 7:19)

Why did Jesus preach the law?

Like every grace preacher, Jesus esteemed the law and the purpose for which it was given. The law was given to silence every mouth and hold the whole world accountable (Rms 3:19). The purpose of the law is to make us conscious of sin and reveal our need for a Savior.

Since Sinai, the Jews had had fourteen centuries to learn what the law would teach them – that the flesh is incapable of dealing with sin. However, the law-teachers and Pharisees had ring-fenced the Law of Moses with their traditions and interpretations.

By honoring their traditions ahead of the law, they diluted the law and removed the key to knowledge. As a result, the menace of sin was not fully recognized and the self-righteous weren’t silenced.

If the law had been allowed to do its proper work, the Jews would have been primed and ready for a Savior. Every one of them would have had an experience like the one Paul describes in Romans 7. “Nothing good lives in me. Oh wretched man that I am!”

Live under the condemning ministry of the law and you will inevitably come to this question: “Who will deliver me from this body of death?” If the law-teachers and prophets had done their job, then the entire nation of Israel would have gathered outside that stable in Bethlehem in eager expectation. “He’s here! The Savior has come!” they would have said. “The One who will deliver us from the curse of the law and reconcile us to God has been born. Glory to God in the highest!”

Sadly, it didn’t happen. Since the law-teachers had been negligent, Jesus had to do their job before He could do His own. Before He could save the world from sin, He had to preach the law that made sin utterly sinful.

Before He give Himself as the answer, He had to make sure we were asking the right question.
Who will deliver us?

So Jesus became the greatest law preacher of all time. As the prophet Isaiah had foretold, He made the law magnificent. He lifted up what others had knocked down and raised the standard to glorious levels of perfection.

Never again would mankind be without excuse. You want to know what God expects? Just read the Sermon on the Mount. In it Jesus says that God demands perfection and nothing less.

How did Jesus preach the law?

Preaching the red letters of Jesus is a bit like drinking whatever you find in the laundry. If you’re not paying attention – if you fail to distinguish His life-giving words of grace from His death-dealing words of law – then you could really do some damage. Don’t believe me? Then consider these red letters:

If you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins. (Mat 6:14-15)

This is one of the most-quoted passages in the Bible and it is vintage law. It is a killer scripture. It is not good news. This verse should make us shudder for it says that our forgiveness hinges on our ability to forgive others and we are poor forgivers indeed. Men sin against us repeatedly.

Have we honestly forgiven them all? What if we miss one? And what do we say to those who have been raped and abused? What do you say to a young child who has been molested? “Sweetie, you need to forgive that evil man otherwise God won’t forgive you.” That’s not grace.

That’s the condemning ministry of the law in full bloom. How do you forgive the unforgiveable? You can’t! Then you’re in trouble. The law condemns you as an unforgiver. Now you’re beginning to recognize your need for grace and this is a good thing.

Any time you read a conditional statement from Jesus, you should interpret it as law. “Do not judge and you will not be judged” (Lk 6:37). That’s good advice but it’s also law. To avoid something (judgment) you have to do something (don’t judge).

It’s a blessing you have to pay for. And anytime Jesus makes a threat, you should interpret that as law as well. “Anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment” (Mt 5:22). That’s bad news for anyone with a brother!

The law is not for you

Jesus came to reveal grace but those who are confident of their own righteousness are incapable of receiving it. They don’t see their need. What they need is the law and Jesus gave it to them in spades. But Jesus’ larger purpose was to give us His life and His righteousness.

So He also told stories about God justifying sinners and shepherds finding lost sheep. Then He went to the cross fulfilling the law on our behalf that He might be the end of the law for all who believe (Rom 10:4).

Jesus’ came to set the captives free and give sight to the blind. The law sets nobody free. But the law does reveal your need for a Great Deliverer.

Unquote:

Here is the website for this article. It has a comment section at the bottom where people can ask questions.

https://escapetoreality.org/2012/01/...-law-preacher/
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,433
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Jesus taught the Gospel. If you understand that as preaching the law, I shudder to thing what else you
pass on to others as truth,.

No matter how many verses are cut and pasted with this lead-in into your post, the declaration cannot be justifed. Jesus does not teach law, at leasst now what you always refer to, the 613 of Moses.

How many times I have posted here that Jesus fulfilled almost all of the laws leaving only those laws and commandments on morality, good behavior. I doubt if all of the grace-only lawyers out there can figure out which is which due to a lack of understanding of love and obedience in grace.

May Yahweh bless you with understanding and grace, amen. In Jesus Christ's ame, amen.
 

Desertsrose

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2016
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We are under the Grace and Mercy of God always and forever. Hallelujah! Therefore we obey the Lord who said that if we love Him we will obey His commandments and because we're under God's grace, we do.

Psalm 19
The heavens are telling of the glory of God;

And their expanse is declaring the work of His hands.
Day to day pours forth speech,
And night to night reveals knowledge.
There is no speech, nor are there words;
Their voice is not heard.
Their line has gone out through all the earth,
And their utterances to the end of the world.
In them He has placed a tent for the sun,
Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber;
It rejoices as a strong man to run his course.
Its rising is from one end of the heavens,
And its circuit to the other end of them;
And there is nothing hidden from its heat.
The law of the Lord is perfect, restoring the soul;
The testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.
The precepts of the Lord are right, rejoicing the heart;
The commandment of the Lord is pure, enlightening the eyes.
The fear of the Lord is clean, enduring forever;
The judgments of the Lord are true; they are righteous altogether.
They are more desirable than gold, yes, than much fine gold;
Sweeter also than honey and the drippings of the honeycomb.
Moreover, by them Your servant is warned;
In keeping them there is great reward.
Who can discern his errors? Acquit me of hidden faults.
Also keep back Your servant from presumptuous sins;
Let them not rule over me;
Then I will be blameless,
And I shall be acquitted of great transgression.
Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart
Be acceptable in Your sight,
O Lord, my rock and my Redeemer.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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Hi Dan,

Leviticus 27 is talking about what follow;

Lev 27:1, ¶ And the LORD spake unto Moses, sayings,
Lev 27:2, Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When a man shall make a singular vow, the persons shall be for the LORD by thy estimation.
Lev 27:3, And thy estimation shall be of the male from twenty years old even unto sixty years old, even thy estimation shall be fifty shekels of silver, after the shekel of the sanctuary.
Lev 27:4, And if it be a female, then thy estimation shall be thirty shekels.
Lev 27:5, And if it be from five years old even unto twenty years old, then thy estimation shall be of the male twenty shekels, and for the female ten shekels.
Lev 27:6, And if it be from a month old even unto five years old, then thy estimation shall be of the male five shekels of silver, and for the female thy estimation shall be three shekels of silver.
Lev 27:7, And if it be from sixty years old and above; if it be a male, then thy estimation shall be fifteen shekels, and for the female ten shekels. etc..

The chapter is referring to parts of the Levitical Sanctuary sacrificial laws given to Moses from God.


What do you mean?

God bless
I was answering this question here
You are obviously not hearing GOD either when HE gave the 10 Commandments personally and ''added no more'' Deut 5v22. As people REFUSED to hear Him then so they do today v25, 27.

Which of the Commandments do you think JESUS was referring to when He said He kept His Fathers Commandments ?
 
S

sevenseas

Guest
This is is a collage of verses to suit your-self...

You should fear GOD and stop this.

You are deceived but may others not be deceived by you.

Im not sure who you adhere to.. I'm sure someone is bewitching you.

Some people we just can't interact with because if you believe something different then they do in a non-essential subject - they will jump on you and verbally attack you and Paul says to just avoid them as no good can come from interacting with them. Rom. 16:17

we need to remember that and excuse the rhetoric
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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Hi Nehemiah,

You may want to study that a little closer.

It the greek is reads like this, "on one of the Sabbaths".
The Greek says "or a sabbath". The KJV puts "days" in italics.
Μὴ οὖν τις ὑμᾶς κρινέτω ἐν βρώσει ἢ ἐν πόσει ἢ ἐν μέρει ἑορτῆς ἢ νουμηνίας ἢ σαββάτων·

There is not a single English translation which says "on one of the Sabbaths". They either say "the sabbath day" or "a sabbath day", "a sabbath", or "the sabbaths".

In any event, the import of that verse is that THE SABBATH DAYS WERE SHADOWS, And that the reality is Christ Himself.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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I guess in some minds all of those that do not keep the Sabbath day as outlined in the Old Testament are sinning and dis-obeying God and all those that agree with that statement and yet don't keep the Sabbath as outlined in the Old Testament - what does that say?
 

gotime

Senior Member
Mar 3, 2011
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The problem here is everyone is not talking the same language so to speak.

This is not a law or works vs grace question.

The issue is does Jesus save from sin or not?

That is the simplicity of it all for my side at least anyway.

If the answer is yes he does. Then there is no choice than to accept that the result of being saved by grace is law abiding.

So then the question simply comes is the 7th day Sabbath a shadow or not.

The answer is "not", as there is not one verse any of you have been able to provide that says it is a shadow directly.

And it is plain dishonesty to suggest there is one that shows it is directly when you can't produce one.

You keep going to the law as if by proving the law or works does not save. The problem is this really has nothing to do with law.

For me its simple, Did God bless the 7th day and set it apart from other days as holy? The answer is Yes.

So the question then is simple, Does the Follower of Jesus acknowledge what God calls holy or do we make it common?

As a follower of Jesus I don't understand how anyone who loves God can disregard the work of God.
 
Jun 5, 2017
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I definitely love the Lord Jesus Christ and will not replace Him for the law of Moses. That's idolatry and committing spiritual adultery on Him.Do you love God? If so - why don't you stone those that don't keep the Sabbath as outlined in the law of Moses? The Lord of the Sabbath said to "believe in Me". Do you believe in Jesus? Do you love Jesus? Why don't you believe Him when He said."All the law and the prophets speak of Me."If you love Jesus - why do you replace Christ and His work for a carnal keeping of a law that you have died to, been released from and not under anymore? Rom. 7:1-6 And the commandments in the New Covenant are these:1 John 3:23 (NASB) This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us. Depending on the life of Christ in us will fulfill all the intent of the law.
Dear Grace777,

(1). Who is replacing Jesus with the laws of Moses? No one here. The laws of Moses where nailed to the cross. We are under a new Covenant now (Heb 8:10-12). So if no one is saying this why do you keep saying this? If no one is saying we are keeping the laws of Moses you really do not have anything further to say right?

(2). Who is replacing Christ with a carnal keeping of a law that we have died and been released from? No one here. God's Law is our schoolmaster the brings us to Christ because it shows us our need of Jesus so that we might be justified by faith. Now if no one is telling you to replace Christ with a carnal keeping of God's Law like your telling everyone then you really do not have anything to argue about right?

Phi 4:8
Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

If you are truly a "Believer" Jesus says If you love me keep my commandments (John 14:15) Jesus wants to write His Law of love in our heart so we can follow Him. This is God's Word not ours. We are not following Jesus if we are living in known sin. If we are living in known sin we have neither seen him nor have known Him and are still in our sins. (1John 2:3-4)

You are better off to stop cutting and pasting the same things over and over and listen to what people are sharing with you. If you reject God's Word you reject Jesus. It is Jesus that love you and is not willing that any of us should perish but that all of us should be saved in His Kingdom.

This is my prayer for you and everyone here.

God bless you
 
Last edited:

graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
2,180
107
63
The problem here is everyone is not talking the same language so to speak.

This is not a law or works vs grace question.

The issue is does Jesus save from sin or not?

That is the simplicity of it all for my side at least anyway.

If the answer is yes he does. Then there is no choice than to accept that the result of being saved by grace is law abiding.

So then the question simply comes is the 7th day Sabbath a shadow or not.

The answer is "not", as there is not one verse any of you have been able to provide that says it is a shadow directly.

And it is plain dishonesty to suggest there is one that shows it is directly when you can't produce one.

You keep going to the law as if by proving the law or works does not save. The problem is this really has nothing to do with law.

For me its simple, Did God bless the 7th day and set it apart from other days as holy? The answer is Yes.

So the question then is simple, Does the Follower of Jesus acknowledge what God calls holy or do we make it common?

As a follower of Jesus I don't understand how anyone who loves God can disregard the work of God.
Nonsense, Hebrews chapter 4 clearly explains who is the New Covenant believer's rest - and it is Jesus Christ.
Your theology just disallows you from seeing what is plainly written - Ellen G. White has a lot to answer for...
 

graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
2,180
107
63
Dear Grace777,

(1). Who is replacing Jesus with the laws of Moses? No one here. The laws of Moses where nailed to the cross. We are under a new Covenant now (Heb 8:10-12). So if no one is saying this why do you keep saying this? If no one is saying we are keeping the laws of Moses you really do not have anything further to say right?

(2). Who is replacing Christ with a carnal keeping of a law that we have died and been released from? No one here. God's Law is our schoolmaster the brings us to Christ because it shows us our need of Jesus so that we might be justified by faith. Now if no one is telling you to replace Christ with a carnal keeping of God's Law like your telling everyone then you really do not have anything to argue about right?

Phi 4:8
Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

If you are truly a "Believer" Jesus says If you love me keep my commandments (John 14:15) Jesus wants to write His Law of love in our heart so we can follow Him. This is God's Word not ours. We are not following Jesus if we are living in known sin.
If we are living in known sin we have neither seen him nor have known Him and are still in our sins. (1John 2:3-4)

You are better off to stop cutting and pasting the same things over and over and listen to what people are sharing with you. If you reject God's Word you reject Jesus. It is Jesus that love you and is not willing that any of us should perish but that all of us should be saved in His Kingdom. This is my prayer for you and everyone here.

God bless you
You are still trying to slice and dice up the Covenant of Moses.
It stands and falls as a unit!

The moment you try to enforce Sabbath observance you are invoking the law (all of it) and therefore become responsible for keeping it (all of it).
All your hundreds of posts are nothing more than weasel words to try and wriggle out of this reality...
Either one is under the law or one is not - it is an absolutely binary choice.
There is no such thing as a bit of law and a bit of grace!
 
Jun 5, 2017
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Nonsense, Hebrews chapter 4 clearly explains who is the New Covenant believer's rest - and it is Jesus Christ.Your theology just disallows you from seeing what is plainly written - Ellen G. White has a lot to answer for...
Hello Friend,

Do you have anything from God's Word to share with us? I love God's Word. Let's look at Hebrews 4. It is a very interesting chapter. Let's look at all the verses in context and not just the bits and pieces and put it out there for all to see.

HEB 4
1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7 Again, he limited a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, Today if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.


Key Scripture points

* Fear that the promise being left us any of us should fall short of entering God’s rest (v1)


* The Gospel was preached to the people in the Wilderness as well as us. The Word did not profit those in the wilderness because of their unbeliefit (v2)
* For we which have believed do enter into His Rest. The people in the wilderness that did not believe God did not enter into His Rest even though works were finished from the foundation of the world (v3)
* Speaking of the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day Sabbath and the last day of the creation week (Gen 2:1-3) (v4)
* God’s rest (Gen 2:1-3), those that believe enter into God’s 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day Sabbath rest those that do not believe do not enter into God’s 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day Sabbath rest (v5-6)
* Harden not your heart in unbelief (v7-8)
* There is a rest for the people of God (v9)
* Those that enter into God’s rest cease from works as God did v10
* We should labour to enter into God’s rest (Gen 2:1-3) faith in God’s Word (rest through believing God) v11
* The Word of God is powerful. v12

Please go back and look at the Greek meaning of the word "rest" used in Heb 4:9 its meaning is resting through keeping of a Sabbath or Sabbath observance. (I have provided Greek links below)


“There remaineth therefore a [Sabbath] rest [SUP]4520[/SUP] to the people of God.” (NAS; Heb 4:9)
The Greek word literally means “Sabbath keeping” or “Sabbath observance.” (links below)
Strong's Concordance 4520
sabbatismos: a sabbath rest
Original Word: σαββατισμός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: sabbatismos
Phonetic Spelling: (sab-bat-is-mos')
Short Definition: a Sabbath rest
Definition: a keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest.


Strong's Greek 4520

σαββατισμὸς — 1 Occ.
Hebrews 4:9N-NMS
GRK: ἄρα ἀπολείπεται σαββατισμὸς τῷ λαῷ
NAS: there remains a Sabbath rest for the people
KJV: therefore a rest to the people
INT: Then remains a sabbath rest to the people

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 4520: σαββατισμός
σαββατισμός, σαββατισμου, ὁ (σαββατίζω to keep the sabbath); 1. a keeping sabbath. 2. the blessed rest from toils and troubles looked for in the age to come by the true worshippers of God and true Christians (R. V. sabbath rest): Hebrews 4:9. (Plutarch, de superstit. c. 3; ecclesiastical writings.)

So let’s pull Hebrews 4:1-12 all together?

The context is God’s rest from the week of creation on the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day of the creation week (Heb 4:1-5). Those that did not enter into God’s rest (7th Day Sabbath) did not enter in because of their unbelief and disobedience (sins) to God’s Word. The Gospel was preached unto them but they did not believe it (Heb 4:2). God did not give them His true rest (Heb 4:5-8). This is the same warning for those that disobey Him and do not follow His Word. Only those that believe and obey God’s Word enter into his 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day Sabbath rest (Heb 4:6, 9, 10-12). So you can see Jesus is not a Sabbath. The Sabbath is the 7th Day of the Week. Jesus is Lord of this Day because he is the creator of this day (Heb 4:4; Mark 2:28-29)


Hope this helps

God bless

 
Jun 5, 2017
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You are still trying to slice and dice up the Covenant of Moses.
It stands and falls as a unit! The moment you try to enforce Sabbath observance you are invoking the law (all of it) and therefore become responsible for keeping it (all of it). All your hundreds of posts are nothing more than weasel words to try and wriggle out of this reality...Either one is under the law or one is not - it is an absolutely binary choice.
There is no such thing as a bit of law and a bit of grace!
Hi Friend,

No one is slicing and dicing anything. We share the Word of God with you. Do you believe God's Word? You never share God's Word but only provide your opinion. Please by all means let's have a discussion on the Word of God and share it together? We provide scripture for what we believe. Where are yours?

God bless you
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
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Dear Grace777,

(1). Who is replacing Jesus with the laws of Moses? No one here. The laws of Moses where nailed to the cross. We are under a new Covenant now (Heb 8:10-12). So if no one is saying this why do you keep saying this? If no one is saying we are keeping the laws of Moses you really do not have anything further to say right?

(2). Who is replacing Christ with a carnal keeping of a law that we have died and been released from? No one here. God's Law is our schoolmaster the brings us to Christ because it shows us our need of Jesus so that we might be justified by faith. Now if no one is telling you to replace Christ with a carnal keeping of God's Law like your telling everyone then you really do not have anything to argue about right?

Phi 4:8
Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

If you are truly a "Believer" Jesus says If you love me keep my commandments (John 14:15) Jesus wants to write His Law of love in our heart so we can follow Him. This is God's Word not ours. We are not following Jesus if we are living in known sin. If we are living in known sin we have neither seen him nor have known Him and are still in our sins. (1John 2:3-4)

You are better off to stop cutting and pasting the same things over and over and listen to what people are sharing with you. If you reject God's Word you reject Jesus. It is Jesus that love you and is not willing that any of us should perish but that all of us should be saved in His Kingdom.

This is my prayer for you and everyone here.

God bless you
I keep posting the same things to refute the distortion of the gospel of the grace of God by Judaizing spirits that try to bring Christians under the law. There are new people reading these threads every day.

I certainly don't expect those that pervert the gospel to all of a sudden say "Oh, I see what you mean by Christ is the true substance of everything in the law and prophets."".

Unless the Holy Spirit reveals Christ Himself and His work to all of us - the carnal mind of man goes to making a religion - especially out of the Old Covenant which is a goner.

Just answer this one question: It's a yes or no answer.


If a Christian doesn't follow the Sabbath day as outlined in the Old Testament - are they sinning and dis-obeying God?
 
Jun 5, 2017
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I keep posting the same things to refute the distortion of the gospel of the grace of God by Judaizing spirits that try to bring Christians under the law. There are new people reading these threads every day.

I certainly don't expect those that pervert the gospel to all of a sudden say "Oh, I see what you mean by Christ is the true substance of everything in the law and prophets."".

Unless the Holy Spirit reveals Christ Himself and His work to all of us - the carnal mind of man goes to making a religion - especially out of the Old Covenant which is a goner.

Just answer this one question: It's a yes or no answer.

If a Christian doesn't follow the Sabbath day as outlined in the Old Testament - are they sinning and dis-obeying God?
Dear Grace777,

You are only refuting yourself because no one here is saying what your saying. Take the time to understand what people are saying to you. There may be a blessing in it for you. Take some time to read God's Word and you will find the answer to your questions.

God bless you :)
 
Nov 22, 2015
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Dear Grace777,

You are only refuting yourself because no one here is saying what your saying. Take time time to understand what people are saying to you. There may be a blessing in it for you. Take some time to read God's Word and you will find the answer to your questions.

God bless you :)
Be honest with us.

Just answer this one question: It's a yes or no answer.

If a Christian doesn't follow the Sabbath day as outlined in the Old Testament - are they sinning and dis-obeying God?
 
Mar 28, 2016
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Nonsense, Hebrews chapter 4 clearly explains who is the New Covenant believer's rest - and it is Jesus Christ.
Your theology just disallows you from seeing what is plainly written - Ellen G. White has a lot to answer for...
Yes it is the rest that was secured from the foundation of the world it is in respect to every time a believer hears the word of God and does not harden their own hearts .It is God who does make our hearts soft They whose hearts have been softened have entered that rest by the faith that alone come from hearing God.. Remember it is Christ who works in us to both will and do His good pleasure so that we can rest from any work we could do. His yoke is easy without it no man could rest from his own. The work would then be eternal, no limbo, no purgatory .

Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. Heb 4:6

If you hear His voice will you enter his rest today?
 

graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
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Hello Friend,

Do you have anything from God's Word to share with us? I love God's Word. Let's look at Hebrews 4. It is a very interesting chapter. Let's look at all the verses in context and not just the bits and pieces and put it out there for all to see.

HEB 4
1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7 Again, he limited a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, Today if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.


Key Scripture points

* Fear that the promise being left us any of us should fall short of entering God’s rest (v1)


* The Gospel was preached to the people in the Wilderness as well as us. The Word did not profit those in the wilderness because of their unbeliefit (v2)
* For we which have believed do enter into His Rest. The people in the wilderness that did not believe God did not enter into His Rest even though works were finished from the foundation of the world (v3)
* Speaking of the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day Sabbath and the last day of the creation week (Gen 2:1-3) (v4)
* God’s rest (Gen 2:1-3), those that believe enter into God’s 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day Sabbath rest those that do not believe do not enter into God’s 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day Sabbath rest (v5-6)
* Harden not your heart in unbelief (v7-8)
* There is a rest for the people of God (v9)
* Those that enter into God’s rest cease from works as God did v10
* We should labour to enter into God’s rest (Gen 2:1-3) faith in God’s Word (rest through believing God) v11
* The Word of God is powerful. v12

Please go back and look at the Greek meaning of the word "rest" used in Heb 4:9 its meaning is resting through keeping of a Sabbath or Sabbath observance. (I have provided Greek links below)


“There remaineth therefore a [Sabbath] rest [SUP]4520[/SUP] to the people of God.” (NAS; Heb 4:9)
The Greek word literally means “Sabbath keeping” or “Sabbath observance.” (links below)
Strong's Concordance 4520
sabbatismos: a sabbath rest
Original Word: σαββατισμός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: sabbatismos
Phonetic Spelling: (sab-bat-is-mos')
Short Definition: a Sabbath rest
Definition: a keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest.


Strong's Greek 4520

σαββατισμὸς — 1 Occ.
Hebrews 4:9N-NMS
GRK: ἄρα ἀπολείπεται σαββατισμὸς τῷ λαῷ
NAS: there remains a Sabbath rest for the people
KJV: therefore a rest to the people
INT: Then remains a sabbath rest to the people

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 4520: σαββατισμός
σαββατισμός, σαββατισμου, ὁ (σαββατίζω to keep the sabbath); 1. a keeping sabbath. 2. the blessed rest from toils and troubles looked for in the age to come by the true worshippers of God and true Christians (R. V. sabbath rest): Hebrews 4:9. (Plutarch, de superstit. c. 3; ecclesiastical writings.)

So let’s pull Hebrews 4:1-12 all together?

The context is God’s rest from the week of creation on the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day of the creation week (Heb 4:1-5). Those that did not enter into God’s rest (7th Day Sabbath) did not enter in because of their unbelief and disobedience (sins) to God’s Word. The Gospel was preached unto them but they did not believe it (Heb 4:2). God did not give them His true rest (Heb 4:5-8). This is the same warning for those that disobey Him and do not follow His Word. Only those that believe and obey God’s Word enter into his 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day Sabbath rest (Heb 4:6, 9, 10-12). So you can see Jesus is not a Sabbath. The Sabbath is the 7th Day of the Week. Jesus is Lord of this Day because he is the creator of this day (Heb 4:4; Mark 2:28-29)


Hope this helps

God bless

I am fully aware of this weak interpretation of Hebrews chapter 4.

God's rest was never a day, and never a single day of the week (Genesis chapter 2).
God's rest was never meant to be the observance of a single day of the week, but an ongoing reality - fellowship with God.
The Sabbath was introduced into the Mosaic Covenant to remind Israel of what they had lost - sin removed the possibility of the real significance of what was spoken about in Genesis chapter 2.
The Mosaic Covenant and the law which became the terms of the contract were added because of sin - simple as that!

Hebrews chap 4:10-11 clearly states that Jesus has entered into that same rest as spoken of in Genesis chapter 2 (not the pale reminder introduced in the Covenant of Moses) and the New Covenant believer is invited to enter into that same rest (eternal fellowship with Jesus Christ).
This has absolutely nothing to do with observing a single day of the week (that hopelessly inadequate substitute for true fellowship with God - introduced solely to remind Israel of what they had lost).

Selah
 
Jun 5, 2017
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I am fully aware of this weak interpretation of Hebrews chapter 4.
God's rest was never a day, and never a single day of the week (Genesis chapter 2).God's rest was never meant to be the observance of a single day of the week, but an ongoing reality - fellowship with God. The Sabbath was introduced into the Mosaic Covenant to remind Israel of what they had lost - sin removed the possibility of the real significance of what was spoken about in Genesis chapter 2.The Mosaic Covenant and the law which became the terms of the contract were added because of sin - simple as that!Hebrews chap 4:10-11 clearly states that Jesus has entered into that same rest as spoken of in Genesis chapter 2 (not the pale reminder introduced in the Covenant of Moses) and the New Covenant believer is invited to enter into that same rest (eternal fellowship with Jesus Christ).This has absolutely nothing to do with observing a single day of the week (that hopelessly inadequate substitute for true fellowship with God - introduced solely to remind Israel of what they had lost).
Selah
Dear friend,

You provide no scripture again only your opinions. We should believe you over the Word of God, because you say so, why? No one is saying that it is not God's Rest. (Gen 2:1-3)

God bless:)