Sabbath

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Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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Why would Yahshua/Jesus says this if the Sabbath were still not active?

Mat 24:20, "But pray that your flight will not be in the winter, nor on the Sabbath Day."


There is only one way noy, all in Messiah are Israylites (Romans 9:6-8)and the Sabbath was always for Hebrews and Gentiles (Isaiah 56:1-6)


Romans 9:6-8, "However, it is not as though YHWH's plan had failed. For it is not everyone who is a descendant of Yisra’yl who belongs to Yisra’yl. Nor, just because they are his descendants, are they all Abraham's children; but: In Isaac will your seed be called. That is, it is not those who are the children of the flesh who are YHWH's children; but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's seed."


Isaiah 56:1-7, “Thus said יהוה, “Guard right-ruling, and do righteousness, for near is My deliverance to come, and My righteousness to be revealed. Blessed is the man who does this, and the son of man who becomes strong in it, guarding the Sabbath lest he profane it, and guarding his hand from doing any evil. And let not the son of the gentile who has joined himself to יהוה speak, saying, ‘יהוה has certainly separated me from His people,’ nor let the eunuch say, ‘Look I am a dry tree.’ For thus said יהוה, “To the eunuchs who guard My Sabbaths, and have chosen what pleases Me, and are holding onto My covenant: to them I shall give in My house and within My walls a place and a name better than that of sons and daughters – I give them an everlasting name that is not cut off. Also the sons of the gentile who join themselves to יהוה, to serve Him, and to love the Name of יהוה, to be His servants, all who guard the Sabbath, and not profane it, and are holding onto My covenant, them I shall bring to My set-apart mountain, and let them rejoice in My house of prayer. Their ascending offerings and their sacrifices are accepted on My altar, for My house is called a house of prayer for all the peoples.”

 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]2 Peter 1:20-21, “knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture came to be of one’s own interpretation, for prophecy never came by the desire of man, but men of YHWH spoke, being moved by the Set-apart Spirit.”[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Daniyl 7:25, "And he will speak great words against YHWH, and will wear out; mentally attack to cause to fall away, the saints of YHWH, and think to change times and Laws…"

so what times and laws wwere "thought" to be changed?
[/FONT]
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
8,345
2,157
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Why would Yahshua/Jesus says this if the Sabbath were still not active?

Mat 24:20, "But pray that your flight will not be in the winter, nor on the Sabbath Day."


Thats very easy to answer Hizikyah.. He was talking to those under the Old covenant, before the resurrection, but since the resurrection we have the new..

And he was making a point about being ready..not about keeping Sabbath - context is always key Hizikyh to understanding scripture.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
Thats very easy to answer Hizikyah.. He was talking to those under the Old covenant, before the resurrection, but since the resurrection we have the new..

And he was making a point about being ready..not about keeping Sabbath - context is always key Hizikyh to understanding scripture.
Except for the fact it was an end time prophecy.

"24:3, "And as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the taught ones came to Him separately, saying, “Say to us, when shall this be, and what is the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

"24:20, "“And pray that your flight does not take place in winter or on the Sabbath.


"24:22, "“And if those days were not shortened, no flesh would be saved, but for the sake of the chosen ones those days shall be shortened.

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]"24:27, "“For as the lightning comes from the east and shines to the west, so also shall the coming of the Son of Aḏam be.[/FONT]

 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
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Why would Yahshua/Jesus says this if the Sabbath were still not active?

Mat 24:20, "But pray that your flight will not be in the winter, nor on the Sabbath Day."


If winter is not religious for Christians, so is not the Sabbath day.

Both are obstacles for a flight.

Winter - no need to explain.
Sabbath - gates of Jerusalem were closed.

---

Your theory that the same Jesus who healed man on Sabbath, the same Jesus who said "who of you would not save your animal from a well on Sabbath" would forbid people from flight before Romans just because of Sabbath is internaly illogical.
 
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phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
8,345
2,157
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Except for the fact it was an end time prophecy.

"24:3, "And as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the taught ones came to Him separately, saying, “Say to us, when shall this be, and what is the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

"24:20, "“And pray that your flight does not take place in winter or on the Sabbath.


"24:22, "“And if those days were not shortened, no flesh would be saved, but for the sake of the chosen ones those days shall be shortened.

"24:27, "“For as the lightning comes from the east and shines to the west, so also shall the coming of the Son of Aḏam be.

Of course it is. And it has nothing to do with observing the Sabbath. That is why I said the following:


Thats very easy to answer Hizikyah.. He was talking to those under the Old covenant, before the resurrection, but since the resurrection we have the new..

And he was making a point about being ready..not about keeping Sabbath - context is always key Hizikyh to understanding scripture.

Jesus was pressing a point, and it is not about keeping the Sabbath. The text does not support your claim! Again context is key in understanding scripture.

So the text you provide as proof, fails to prove your point, those in the New Covenant worshiped and broke bread on the Lords day, just as the NT tells us and the witness of the early church. And as I said before isn't it great that the fledgling church in Jerusalem met daily.

 

JohnTalmid

Senior Member
Mar 17, 2017
516
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Thats very easy to answer Hizikyah.. He was talking to those under the Old covenant, before the resurrection, but since the resurrection we have the new..

And he was making a point about being ready..not about keeping Sabbath - context is always key Hizikyh to understanding scripture.
Renewed not New... There is a new command of the Messiah to His people and that is to Love each other as He loves us.
This doesn't change the Sabbath day or anything of the law of God put before you at that mountain.
You who believe that the law is burdensome and a curse, have still not put all trust in Messiah because if you had you would find out about the lack of condemnation from this Love. Because He first loved me I now love all of Him, (Messiah Yahshua) who has become my Master.
Now that you know what my Master is, the Law of Elohim, aka Law of the Spirit, aka the Word, aka Yahshua The Messiah himself. Would you rather be slave to righteousness or sin?

Because if you are choosing life it is slave to the word, and a slave of sin to death.
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
8,345
2,157
113
Renewed not New... There is a new command of the Messiah to His people and that is to Love each other as He loves us.
This doesn't change the Sabbath day or anything of the law of God put before you at that mountain.
You who believe that the law is burdensome and a curse, have still not put all trust in Messiah because if you had you would find out about the lack of condemnation from this Love. Because He first loved me I now love all of Him, (Messiah Yahshua) who has become my Master.
Now that you know what my Master is, the Law of Elohim, aka Law of the Spirit, aka the Word, aka Yahshua The Messiah himself. Would you rather be slave to righteousness or sin?

Because if you are choosing life it is slave to the word, and a slave of sin to death.

Hi Johntalmid,

I think you will find the scriptural witness bears heavily against your claim that the Old covenant is renewed.


Luke 22:20New International Version - UK (NIVUK)

20 In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, ‘This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.

 

JohnTalmid

Senior Member
Mar 17, 2017
516
44
28
Even better than that, there is no longer, (or ever been) a old covenant believer and new covenant believer because there is one instruction for the whole house of God...
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
8,345
2,157
113
Even better than that, there is no longer, (or ever been) a old covenant believer and new covenant believer because there is one instruction for the whole house of God...

Hi JohnTamid,

Now your just being silly. You have just defeated your own argument.. First you say there is no new covenant, but state it is the old renewed. Once your fallacy was pointed out, you say there is no covenant.. What comes to mind here is an unstable mind concerning spiritual things.

I'll remind you what Jesus says (again)

[h=1]Luke 22:20New International Version - UK (NIVUK)[/h][FONT=&quot]20 In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, ‘This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.[/FONT]


 

JohnTalmid

Senior Member
Mar 17, 2017
516
44
28
Hi Johntalmid,

I think you will find the scriptural witness bears heavily against your claim that the Old covenant is renewed.


Luke 22:20New International Version - UK (NIVUK)

20 In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, ‘This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.

Renewed in the order of creation not under the mosaic as many on CC call it. All judgment, ordinance, and commands of God stand. However the sacrifice of the Messiah is the key cornerstone of the Faith now. Not that sacrifice from the levitical priest. We have a high priest that is seated at the right hand of the Father in Heaven. Who intercedes for us on our behalf. How are you brought close to the promise and never cross over to it?
It's like standing on a curb painted red with the blood of Messiah. It says fire lane no parking on the blood of Messiah. On the other side a false stop sign put up by a thief keeping many distracted.
 
Jun 5, 2017
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When the New Testament says it is not to be observed anymore, it is an argument for not keeping the Old Testament's 4th commandment. Because the New Testament is inspired.
That is my point. Where does it say in the New Testament that God's 4th commandment has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day? There is no scripture and if there is not scripture why are you saying there is when there is no? Who should we believe God or man? Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of man or the Word of God. Sunday worship is a tradition of man that breaks the commandments of God and Jesus says if we are breaking God's commandments we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9; James 2:8-12; 1 John 3:3-9; 1 John 2:2-4)

May God bless you are you prayerfully seek him through His Word
 
Oct 28, 2017
191
5
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Renewed in the order of creation not under the mosaic as many on CC call it. All judgment, ordinance, and commands of God stand. However the sacrifice of the Messiah is the key cornerstone of the Faith now. Not that sacrifice from the levitical priest. We have a high priest that is seated at the right hand of the Father in Heaven. Who intercedes for us on our behalf. How are you brought close to the promise and never cross over to it?
It's like standing on a curb painted red with the blood of Messiah. It says fire lane no parking on the blood of Messiah. On the other side a false stop sign put up by a thief keeping many distracted.
[FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter:
Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
Ecclessiates 12:13

[FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]Blessed are they that do His commandments,
that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
Revelation 22:14
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
That is my point. Where does it say in the New Testament that God's 4th commandment has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day? There is no scripture and if there is not scripture why are you saying there is when there is no? Who should we believe God or man? Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of man or the Word of God. Sunday worship is a tradition of man that breaks the commandments of God and Jesus says if we are breaking God's commandments we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9; James 2:8-12; 1 John 3:3-9; 1 John 2:2-4)

May God bless you are you prayerfully seek him through His Word
Look at my post number 3812, I have given 5 biblical proofs.
 

JohnTalmid

Senior Member
Mar 17, 2017
516
44
28
Hi JohnTamid,

Now your just being silly. You have just defeated your own argument.. First you say there is no new covenant, but state it is the old renewed. Once your fallacy was pointed out, you say there is no covenant.. What comes to mind here is an unstable mind concerning spiritual things.

I'll remind you what Jesus says (again)

[h=1]Luke 22:20New International Version - UK (NIVUK)[/h][FONT=&quot]20 In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, ‘This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.[/FONT]


It's not a wonder to me that you have not understood the law of God, because you my dear have never agreed with it. The cup of the new covenant made through the Messiah Yahshua was done on Passover. To this day it is kept by faithful children of Elohim. What I fear for the people of the church is they are becoming drunk on the cup of wrath for judgment on the day of the Lord, (not to be confused with the Lords day the Sabbath as He is Lord of the Sabbath day).
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
What I fear for the people of the church is ....
Do not worry about the church, she is safe.

"And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it."

Matthew 16:18
 
Jun 5, 2017
3,675
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Look at my post number 3812, I have given 5 biblical proofs.
Yet not one of them answers my question; Here let me write it again;

Where does it say in the New Testament that God's 4th commandment has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day?

It also ignores all the scriptures posted that disagree with your interpretation in post # 3809 linked
 
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trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
Yet not one of them answers my question; Here let me write it again;

Where does it say in the New Testament that God's 4th commandment has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day?

It also ignores all the scriptures posted that disagree with your interpretation in post # 3809 linked
I never said we should keep sunday as a holy day, so I have no need to prove such thing.

I said we are not to observe sabbath anymore.
 
Jun 5, 2017
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I never said we should keep sunday as a holy day, so I have no need to prove such thing.
I said we are not to observe sabbath anymore.
So I guess that is a no, you cannot find any scripture that says that the 4th commandment is abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day. You are correct because there is no scripture. If you cannot find the scriptures who should we believe God or man? Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of man that break the commandments of God or the Word of God? Sunday worship is a tradition of man that breaks the commandments of God and Jesus says if we follow the traditions of man over the Word of God we are not following him (Matthew 15:3-9)

May God bless you as you seek Him through His Word....
 
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