Sabbath

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trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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nothing in the bible connects the Lords day to sunday,
only man made tradation after the fact, thats why.
Bible did not fall from heaven. It was created in the first church.

And the first church used the term "Lord´s day" for Sunday.

So why should we invent something different for the term in Rev.
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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The Theme of the Book

“I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day, and heard behind me a great voice,
as of a trumpet” (Revelation 1:10).

A single verse thunders to us the theme of this book: the gloomy Day of the Lord.
Yet people stumble over this verse—causing them to misunderstand the entire message!

Many Bible skeptics and churchgoers alike are confused by the word “day” here.

This is not about a particular day of the week, like Saturday or Sunday.
In Bible prophecy, a day sometimes is equal to a year (Ezekiel 4:6).


Revelation 1:10 and over 30 other prophecies mention the terrible
Day of the Lord that will decisively conclude this age!

The Prophet Zephaniah says this time is hastening greatly, or exceedingly!

The great day of the Lord is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice
of the day of the Lord: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly” (Zephaniah 1:13-14).
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
Bible did not fall from heaven. It was created in the first church.

And the first church used the term "Lord´s day" for Sunday.

So why should we invent something different for the term in Rev.
Where in Scripture is the 1st day sunday called the lords day?
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
The Theme of the Book

“I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day, and heard behind me a great voice,
as of a trumpet” (Revelation 1:10).

A single verse thunders to us the theme of this book: the gloomy Day of the Lord.
Yet people stumble over this verse—causing them to misunderstand the entire message!

Many Bible skeptics and churchgoers alike are confused by the word “day” here.

This is not about a particular day of the week, like Saturday or Sunday.
In Bible prophecy, a day sometimes is equal to a year (Ezekiel 4:6).


Revelation 1:10 and over 30 other prophecies mention the terrible
Day of the Lord that will decisively conclude this age!

The Prophet Zephaniah says this time is hastening greatly, or exceedingly!

The great day of the Lord is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice
of the day of the Lord: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly” (Zephaniah 1:13-14).
"Churchgoer".. what a terrible, unlearned person that must be.

But we have you, a non-churchgoer, who is not confused by the word "day" so you can inform us what that means.
 
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trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
IF there was a verse you could quote it.

The "day of the LOrd" or The Day od YHWH, is when Yahshuas returns as the COnquering Lion and establishes Yah's Kingdom here...
Lord´s day in the first church (and thats the place where Revelation originated) was a term for Sunday. You can verify it.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
Bible did not fall from heaven. It was created in the first church.

And the first church used the term "Lord´s day" for Sunday.

So why should we invent something different for the term in Rev.
Where in Scripture is the 1st day sunday called the lords day?
IF there was a verse you could quote it.

The "day of the LOrd" or The Day od YHWH, is when Yahshuas returns as the COnquering Lion and establishes Yah's Kingdom here...
Lord´s day in the first church (and thats the place where Revelation originated) was a term for Sunday. You can verify it.

IF there was a verse you could quote it.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
IF there was a verse you could quote it.
Verse proving that the first Church used the term Lord´s day for Sunday?

"If, therefore, those who were brought up in the ancient order of things have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord's Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him and by His death..."

Ignatios to Magnesians 9:1
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
Revelation 1:10, “I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day, and heard behind me a great voice,
as of a trumpet”

Isaiah 13:9-11, "Behold, the day of the LORD is coming, Cruel, with fury and burning anger, To make the land a desolation; And He will exterminate its sinners from it. For the stars of heaven and their constellations Will not flash forth their light; The sun will be dark when it rises And the moon will not shed its light. Thus I will punish the world for its evil And the wicked for their iniquity; I will also put an end to the arrogance of the proud And abase the haughtiness of the ruthless."

Revelation 19:11-16, “And I saw the heaven opened, and there was a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Trustworthy and True, and in righteousness He judges and fights. And His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns, having a Name that had been written, which no one had perceived except Himself – and having been dressed in a robe dipped in blood (Isaiah 63:2) and His Name is called: The Word of יהוה. And the armies in the heaven, dressed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. And out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should smite the nations. And He shall shepherd them with a rod of iron. And He treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of the Almighty Strength. And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written: SOVEREIGN OF SOVEREIGNS AND MASTER OF MASTERS.”

Revelation 18:4-8, “And I heard another voice from the heaven saying, "Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues. Because her sins have piled up to reach the heaven, and יהוה has remembered her unrighteousness. Render to her as she indeed did render, and repay her double according to her works. In the cup which she has mixed, mix for her double. As much as she esteemed herself and lived riotously, so much torture and grief give to her, because in her heart she says, ‘I sit as sovereigness, and I am not a widow, and I do not see mourning at all. Because of this her plagues shall come in one day: death and mourning and scarcity of food. And she shall be burned up with fire, because יהוה our Strength who judges her is mighty.”

Revelation 14:12-20, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the commands of יהוה and the belief of יהושע. And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, “Write, ‘Blessed are the dead who die in the Master from now on.’ ” “Yes,” says the Spirit, “in order that they rest from their labors, and their works follow with them. And I looked and saw a white cloud, and sitting on the cloud was One like the Son of Aḏam, (Dan 7:13-14) having on His head a golden crown, and in His hand a sharp sickle. And another messenger came out of the Dwelling Place, crying with a loud voice to the One sitting on the cloud, “Send Your sickle and reap, because the hour has come for You to reap, because the harvest of the earth is ripe. And the One sitting on the cloud thrust in His sickle on the earth, and the earth was reaped. And another messenger came out of the Dwelling Place which is in the heaven, and he too held a sharp sickle. And another messenger came out from the slaughter-place, having authority over the fire, and he cried with a loud cry to him having the sharp sickle, saying, “Send your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth, because her grapes are ripe. And the messenger thrust his sickle into the earth and gathered the vine of the earth, and threw it into the great wine press of the wrath of יהוה. And the wine press was trodden outside the city, and blood came out of the wine press, up to the bridles of the horses, for about one thousand six hundred stadiad. (Approx. 296 kilometres or 184 miles)”
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
Revelation 1:10, “I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day, and heard behind me a great voice,
as of a trumpet”

Isaiah 13:9-11, "Behold, the day of the LORD is coming, Cruel, with fury and burning anger, To make the land a desolation; And He will exterminate its sinners from it. For the stars of heaven and their constellations Will not flash forth their light; The sun will be dark when it rises And the moon will not shed its light. Thus I will punish the world for its evil And the wicked for their iniquity; I will also put an end to the arrogance of the proud And abase the haughtiness of the ruthless."

Revelation 19:11-16, “And I saw the heaven opened, and there was a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Trustworthy and True, and in righteousness He judges and fights. And His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns, having a Name that had been written, which no one had perceived except Himself – and having been dressed in a robe dipped in blood (Isaiah 63:2) and His Name is called: The Word of יהוה. And the armies in the heaven, dressed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. And out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should smite the nations. And He shall shepherd them with a rod of iron. And He treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of the Almighty Strength. And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written: SOVEREIGN OF SOVEREIGNS AND MASTER OF MASTERS.”

Revelation 18:4-8, “And I heard another voice from the heaven saying, "Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues. Because her sins have piled up to reach the heaven, and יהוה has remembered her unrighteousness. Render to her as she indeed did render, and repay her double according to her works. In the cup which she has mixed, mix for her double. As much as she esteemed herself and lived riotously, so much torture and grief give to her, because in her heart she says, ‘I sit as sovereigness, and I am not a widow, and I do not see mourning at all. Because of this her plagues shall come in one day: death and mourning and scarcity of food. And she shall be burned up with fire, because יהוה our Strength who judges her is mighty.”

Revelation 14:12-20, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the commands of יהוה and the belief of יהושע. And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, “Write, ‘Blessed are the dead who die in the Master from now on.’ ” “Yes,” says the Spirit, “in order that they rest from their labors, and their works follow with them. And I looked and saw a white cloud, and sitting on the cloud was One like the Son of Aḏam, (Dan 7:13-14) having on His head a golden crown, and in His hand a sharp sickle. And another messenger came out of the Dwelling Place, crying with a loud voice to the One sitting on the cloud, “Send Your sickle and reap, because the hour has come for You to reap, because the harvest of the earth is ripe. And the One sitting on the cloud thrust in His sickle on the earth, and the earth was reaped. And another messenger came out of the Dwelling Place which is in the heaven, and he too held a sharp sickle. And another messenger came out from the slaughter-place, having authority over the fire, and he cried with a loud cry to him having the sharp sickle, saying, “Send your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth, because her grapes are ripe. And the messenger thrust his sickle into the earth and gathered the vine of the earth, and threw it into the great wine press of the wrath of יהוה. And the wine press was trodden outside the city, and blood came out of the wine press, up to the bridles of the horses, for about one thousand six hundred stadiad. (Approx. 296 kilometres or 184 miles)”
You are putting together pieces that are totally different in context and it is obviously just because you are a Sabbath keeper, thats why you had to come with this.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
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Verse proving that the first Church used the term Lord´s day for Sunday?

"If, therefore, those who were brought up in the ancient order of things have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord's Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him and by His death..."

Ignatios to Magnesians 9:1
That is not Scripture.
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
5,977
400
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So? Scriptures are not a dictionary.
Edict of Constantine

On 3 March 321, Constantine I decreed that Sunday (dies Solis)
will be observed as the Roman day of rest [CJ3.12.2]:


On the venerable day of the Sun let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed. In the country however persons engaged in agriculture may freely and lawfully continue their pursuits because it often happens that another day is not suitable for grain-sowing or vine planting; lest by neglecting the proper moment for such operations the bounty of heaven should be lost.[SUP][31][/SUP]

Constantine's decree was most likely modeled on pagan sun worship,
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
You are putting together pieces that are totally different in context and it is obviously just because you are a Sabbath keeper, thats why you had to come with this.
That is not Scripture.
So? Scriptures are not a dictionary.
SO?

Are you serious?

I see how you believe what you do... should I use comic books to find the true doctrine? or movies? or maybe church tradition like the p[harisees did?



Yet Scripture shows us Paul kept Sabbath and Feast days post Messiah's Sacrifice, yet you use non-Scripture to show a oppisite view...

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 24:14, "But I confess this to you, that after the way which they call heresy--so I worship the Father of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Paul Kept Sabbath and Feasts;[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 18:21, “But bade them farewell, saying, I must by all means keep this Feast that cometh in Jerusalem: but I will return again unto you, if Yah will. And he sailed from Ephesus.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 27:9, “Much time had been lost, and sailing had already become dangerous because by now it was after the Day of Atonement. So Paul warned them.”[/FONT]


“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Day of Atonement” is word #G3521 in Strong's Concordance – nésteia, nésteia: fasting, a fast, Original Word: νηστεία, ας, ἡ, Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine, Transliteration: nésteia, Phonetic Spelling: (nace-ti'-ah), Short Definition: fasting, the day of atonement, Definition: fasting, the day of atonement.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 20:16, “Paul had decided to sail past Ephesus to avoid spending time in the province of Asia, for he was in a hurry to reach Jerusalem, if possible, by the day of Pentecost.”

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 4:4, “But He answering, said, “It has been written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif].” (Deut 8:3)[/FONT]​


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Isaiah 34:16, “Search from the book of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], and read: not one of these shall be missing, not one shall be without a mate, for He has commanded my mouth. And His Spirit shall gather them.”[/FONT]​


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Thessalonians 5:21, "but test everything; hold fast what is righteous."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
Edict of Constantine[edit]

On 3 March 321, Constantine I decreed that Sunday (dies Solis)
will be observed as the Roman day of rest [CJ3.12.2]:
On the venerable day of the Sun let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed. In the country however persons engaged in agriculture may freely and lawfully continue their pursuits because it often happens that another day is not suitable for grain-sowing or vine planting; lest by neglecting the proper moment for such operations the bounty of heaven should be lost.[SUP][31][/SUP]
Constantine's decree was most likely modeled on pagan sun worship,
Irrelevant. We are talking neither about Constantine nor about the Roman empire´s official days.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
SO?

Are you serious?

I see how you believe what you do... should I use comic books to find the true doctrine? or movies? or maybe church tradition like the p[harisees did?



Yet Scripture shows us Paul kept Sabbath and Feast days post Messiah's Sacrifice, yet you use non-Scripture to show a oppisite view...

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 24:14, "But I confess this to you, that after the way which they call heresy--so I worship the Father of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Paul Kept Sabbath and Feasts;[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 18:21, “But bade them farewell, saying, I must by all means keep this Feast that cometh in Jerusalem: but I will return again unto you, if Yah will. And he sailed from Ephesus.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 27:9, “Much time had been lost, and sailing had already become dangerous because by now it was after the Day of Atonement. So Paul warned them.”[/FONT]


“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Day of Atonement” is word #G3521 in Strong's Concordance – nésteia, nésteia: fasting, a fast, Original Word: νηστεία, ας, ἡ, Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine, Transliteration: nésteia, Phonetic Spelling: (nace-ti'-ah), Short Definition: fasting, the day of atonement, Definition: fasting, the day of atonement.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 20:16, “Paul had decided to sail past Ephesus to avoid spending time in the province of Asia, for he was in a hurry to reach Jerusalem, if possible, by the day of Pentecost.”

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 4:4, “But He answering, said, “It has been written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif].” (Deut 8:3)[/FONT]​


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Isaiah 34:16, “Search from the book of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], and read: not one of these shall be missing, not one shall be without a mate, for He has commanded my mouth. And His Spirit shall gather them.”[/FONT]​


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Thessalonians 5:21, "but test everything; hold fast what is righteous."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]
You yourself use Strong´s dictionary as it pleases you.

But nobody can use external source for what is against your belief, right? And writings of the very first church are much above any Strong´s.
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
5,977
400
83
63
Irrelevant. We are talking neither about Constantine nor about the Roman empire´s official days.
The Thread title is Sabbath, is it not?

"that Sunday worship unconnected to Sabbath was introduced in Rome in the 2nd century,
and was later enforced throughout the Christian church as a substitution for Sabbath worship.
 
Last edited:

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
Edict of Constantine

On 3 March 321, Constantine I decreed that Sunday (dies Solis)
will be observed as the Roman day of rest [CJ3.12.2]:


On the venerable day of the Sun let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed. In the country however persons engaged in agriculture may freely and lawfully continue their pursuits because it often happens that another day is not suitable for grain-sowing or vine planting; lest by neglecting the proper moment for such operations the bounty of heaven should be lost.[SUP][31][/SUP]

Constantine's decree was most likely modeled on pagan sun worship,
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Daniyl 7:25, "And he will speak great words against YHWH, and will wear out; mentally attack to cause to fall away, the saints of YHWH, and think to change times and Laws…"[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 13:3, “And I saw one of his heads, as having been slain to death, and his deadly wound was healed. And all the earth wondered after the beast.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 18:4, “And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.”[/FONT]
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
I'm going off-line now, but if you want to post your references regarding Saturday worship, I think you will find the 'law' was the Levitical Law which was man-made. I think Jesus got it right when he said they were the "Commandments of Men and not of God." Perhaps you will be good enough to post where Jesus said that as well.
The Sabbath was created and sanctified by God long before Levi was born.

Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Matt. 15:3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?

7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. ( Not of God)


So if God writes His Laws on our hearts, will we not follow them? What other purpose would God have to write His Laws on our hearts if not to change our lifestyle from our own traditions and beliefs, to God's instruction?